Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

[peach174]

Instead of whining and crying about thugs like Travon Martin and Michael Brown
being shoot and killed maybe time would be better spent wondering how two police officers ended up shooting and killing a 12 year old boy in a park because he was playing with a toy gun? There is no excuse for the police action on this shooting.

Read more at Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police - Toledo Blade

Saw the video and ocverage for this several time syesterday. Something occured to me that calls into question the justification for the shooting:

If the officer ordered the boy to drop the weapon and show his hands, then fired when the boy produced the pistol, how could he drop the weapon without producing the pistol? Could make a case for deliberately shooting the boy by giving him the order to drop the weapon knowing then he'd be holding the pistol then shooting. He couldn't "show his hands" AND "drop the weapon."

Except the kid did not have the weapon fist. He was ordered to show his hands and then he reached for the gun.

CNN's coverage (sigh) claims the officer fired within 2 seconds of arrival and ordered the boy to show his hands AND drop the weapon. Shrug.

CNN is not always right either.

 

[dannyboys]

Instead of whining and crying about thugs like Travon Martin and Michael Brown
being shoot and killed maybe time would be better spent wondering how two police officers ended up shooting and killing a 12 year old boy in a park because he was playing with a toy gun? There is no excuse for the police action on this shooting.

Read more at Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police - Toledo Blade

Saw the video and ocverage for this several time syesterday. Something occured to me that calls into question the justification for the shooting:

If the officer ordered the boy to drop the weapon and show his hands, then fired when the boy produced the pistol, how could he drop the weapon without producing the pistol? Could make a case for deliberately shooting the boy by giving him the order to drop the weapon knowing then he'd be holding the pistol then shooting. He couldn't "show his hands" AND "drop the weapon."

Both cops has already made official sworn statements the the only words they cop on the passenger said three times were: "Put your hands on your head!". Neither cop told the 'tall for his age" now dead negro to "drop the weapon'. Why? Because the dead man was NOT HOLDING A WEAPON!!!!!!! It was in his waistband.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

As to CNN's emphasis on the dispatcher not relaying the caller's report the gun may be fake, that's SOP I'd think. Doesn't matter if the witness thinks it's real or fake, that doesn't get passed on to responding officers because you don't want them going into harm's way and getting blown away because a witness doesn't know guns.

Still, on the heels of Ferguson and the riots, with related protests nation-wide, the last thing any department needs is another white on black killing no matter if justified or not. Cold practicality here is it'd be better at this point to loose an officer erroring on the side of caution than killing another black suspect. Mobs don't care about justification, but an officer holding their fire and dying would do a lot of good healing law enforcement's image. Sucks we've come to that but it's true.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Something else that occured that might end up having to be adopted by law enforcement is what's already official policy in the military, you may not fire on an enemy until fired upon. A lot of officer-involved shootings could have been avoided if officers have to wait until they're fired upon. This incident, as well as a previous one where subjects both have bb-gun weapons could have avoided the deaths of the subjects by waiting to see if the weapons a) got fired at all, and b) if when fired the report of the weapon sounded like an actual firearm.

You naturally don't wanna put officer's in any more jeopardy than they already are, but at the same time these sorts of incidents bring low all law enforcement when they happen. Just as we don't want military triggering unintentional wars with other countries firing prematurely or unjustly, we might need to implement a 'do not fire unless fired upon' type policy.

How many hundreds of dead cops do you want to see.

And to further prove how fucking ignorant your post is, bullets travel faster than sound, you would not hear the one that killed you instantly.

How about people teach their kids how to act in public, and shut the fuck up when they don't and pay the price?

Don't wanna any dead cops, but at the same time I don't want the honorable profession and reputation of law enforcement officers brought down any more than it already is. Already being grilled over use of military vehicles and supposedly killing too many blacks. Right or wrong, the mob's gonna do what a mob's gonna do regardless of the facts. Last thing we need is more slayings of black subjects no matter how justified they might have been.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Instead of whining and crying about thugs like Travon Martin and Michael Brown
being shoot and killed maybe time would be better spent wondering how two police officers ended up shooting and killing a 12 year old boy in a park because he was playing with a toy gun? There is no excuse for the police action on this shooting.

Read more at Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police - Toledo Blade

Saw the video and ocverage for this several time syesterday. Something occured to me that calls into question the justification for the shooting:

If the officer ordered the boy to drop the weapon and show his hands, then fired when the boy produced the pistol, how could he drop the weapon without producing the pistol? Could make a case for deliberately shooting the boy by giving him the order to drop the weapon knowing then he'd be holding the pistol then shooting. He couldn't "show his hands" AND "drop the weapon."

Except the kid did not have the weapon fist. He was ordered to show his hands and then he reached for the gun.

CNN's coverage (sigh) claims the officer fired within 2 seconds of arrival and ordered the boy to show his hands AND drop the weapon. Shrug.

CNN is not always right either.

Can only comment of what coverage I've seen or read. Hence the clarification.

 

[Roadrunner]

As to CNN's emphasis on the dispatcher not relaying the caller's report the gun may be fake, that's SOP I'd think. Doesn't matter if the witness thinks it's real or fake, that doesn't get passed on to responding officers because you don't want them going into harm's way and getting blown away because a witness doesn't know guns.

Still, on the heels of Ferguson and the riots, with related protests nation-wide, the last thing any department needs is another white on black killing no matter if justified or not. Cold practicality here is it'd be better at this point to loose an officer erroring on the side of caution than killing another black suspect. Mobs don't care about justification, but an officer holding their fire and dying would do a lot of good healing law enforcement's image. Sucks we've come to that but it's true.

That is just outrageous.

Maybe the President could appear at white officer's funerals, and tell the grieving families that their family member died to pay for white privilege, and to shut the fuck up with the crying and deal with it.

Would that help pacify the minority of criminals who ruin legitimate protest?

 

[Roadrunner]

Something else that occured that might end up having to be adopted by law enforcement is what's already official policy in the military, you may not fire on an enemy until fired upon. A lot of officer-involved shootings could have been avoided if officers have to wait until they're fired upon. This incident, as well as a previous one where subjects both have bb-gun weapons could have avoided the deaths of the subjects by waiting to see if the weapons a) got fired at all, and b) if when fired the report of the weapon sounded like an actual firearm.

You naturally don't wanna put officer's in any more jeopardy than they already are, but at the same time these sorts of incidents bring low all law enforcement when they happen. Just as we don't want military triggering unintentional wars with other countries firing prematurely or unjustly, we might need to implement a 'do not fire unless fired upon' type policy.

How many hundreds of dead cops do you want to see.

And to further prove how fucking ignorant your post is, bullets travel faster than sound, you would not hear the one that killed you instantly.

How about people teach their kids how to act in public, and shut the fuck up when they don't and pay the price?

Don't wanna any dead cops, but at the same time I don't want the honorable profession and reputation of law enforcement officers brought down any more than it already is. Already being grilled over use of military vehicles and supposedly killing too many blacks. Right or wrong, the mob's gonna do what a mob's gonna do regardless of the facts. Last thing we need is more slayings of black subjects no matter how justified they might have been.

The mob needs a few volleys from fully automatic weapons, and we will either get the race war they crave, or they will get the message.

This country is not going to be dictated to by domestic terrorist no matter what color they are.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

As to CNN's emphasis on the dispatcher not relaying the caller's report the gun may be fake, that's SOP I'd think. Doesn't matter if the witness thinks it's real or fake, that doesn't get passed on to responding officers because you don't want them going into harm's way and getting blown away because a witness doesn't know guns.

Still, on the heels of Ferguson and the riots, with related protests nation-wide, the last thing any department needs is another white on black killing no matter if justified or not. Cold practicality here is it'd be better at this point to loose an officer erroring on the side of caution than killing another black suspect. Mobs don't care about justification, but an officer holding their fire and dying would do a lot of good healing law enforcement's image. Sucks we've come to that but it's true.

That is just outrageous.

Maybe the President could appear at white officer's funerals, and tell the grieving families that their family member died to pay for white privilege, and to shut the fuck up with the crying and deal with it.

Would that help pacify the minority of criminals who ruin legitimate protest?

Law enforcement's authority stems from their perception of legitimacy. Right now, that perception and legitimacy is dangling by a thread.

 

[Synthaholic]

Oh just give it a fucking rest already.
There is a fucking black man in the Oval Office.

He is just as White as he is Black.

Then why has he been referred to the "the First Black President" by everyone on the planet for six years?
You're stupid.

Explain how he is more Black than White, dope.

 

[Synthaholic]

You are just assuming that. The video was compressed. You are not seeing the whole video of what happened.
Cops do not come out of their cars shooting first.

Where are you getting this bullshit?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Oh just give it a fucking rest already.
There is a fucking black man in the Oval Office.

He is just as White as he is Black.

Then why has he been referred to the "the First Black President" by everyone on the planet for six years?
You're stupid.

Explain how he is more Black than White, dope.

Dope, the point is 20 years ago, he could have been white with some black blood in him and that would have been enough to DQ him from even running for POTUS, never mind being elected.

Today he's black with some white ancestry, and sitting in the Oval. Under ANY reasonable measure that is progress.

I'll say it again. the people who should be MOST pissed about Obama getting elected are WOMEN.

In 2008 Hillary was groomed and primed and qualified to run for POTUS, and she got shoved aside for a black nobody LOL

That has to sting women. But stupid Dems put party above all else I guess.

 

[Synthaholic]

Except the kid did not have the weapon fist. He was ordered to show his hands and then he reached for the gun.

At what time mark on the video does the cop order him to show his hands?

 

[Wake]

Police officers put their lives in harm's way every day. At any moment they can be killed. This is why they take threats seriously. If you reach for something in your waist when a cop is within your range (and has his/her eyes on you), you may get shot. If an officer approaches me I have the forethought to not do anything that might make him or her nervous. I've been pulled over because of a broken headlight, and I spoke respectfully and kept my hands in plain sight when speaking. I didn't react suddenly to reach for some unknown thing in the glove compartment, driver's seat, or back. Even if I knew it was something harmless like a new head-light the officer sure as heck doesn't know that.

And, I feel, it comes down to a matter of common sense. When I was a child I'd go out swimming, play video games, or do other harmless stuff with friends. I didn't take a gun replica, take off the orange strip that lets people know it's fake, and then go about pointing it at random people and scaring the bejezzus out of people. You don't know if it's fake or not. If you don't know, the cops aren't, either, and they're not going to give you more seconds to prove whether it is or not. If it's real, and in their permissiveness the boy points and shoots a cop dead, what do you guys on the sidelines have to say for yourselves?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Police officers put their lives in harm's way every day. At any moment they can be killed. This is why they take threats seriously. If you reach for something in your waist when a cop is within your range (and has his/her eyes on you), you may get shot. If an officer approaches me I have the forethought to not do anything that might make him or her nervous. I've been pulled over because of a broken headlight, and I spoke respectfully and kept my hands in plain sight when speaking. I didn't react suddenly to reach for some unknown thing in the glove compartment, driver's seat, or back. Even if I knew it was something harmless like a new head-light the officer sure as heck doesn't know that.

And, I feel, it comes down to a matter of common sense. When I was a child I'd go out swimming, play video games, or do other harmless stuff with friends. I didn't take a gun replica, take off the orange strip that lets people know it's fake, and then go about pointing it at random people and scaring the bejezzus out of people. You don't know if it's fake or not. If you don't know, the cops aren't, either, and they're not going to give you more seconds to prove whether it is or not. If it's real, and in their permissiveness the boy points and shoots a cop dead, what do you guys on the sidelines have to say for yourselves?

Don't kid yourself, these stupid pieces of shit would love to see dead cops.

 

[peach174]

Except the kid did not have the weapon fist. He was ordered to show his hands and then he reached for the gun.

At what time mark on the video does the cop order him to show his hands?

If it had sound and if it was not in compressed time then maybe you would know.

 

[RKMBrown]

Playing?

Possibly a rush to judgement but this not likely.
Yes Playing, have you never played with toy guns as a kid?

The 'twelve year old' going on eighteen physically and five years mentally was waving a VERY accurate replica of a handgun.............with the orange tip REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at people in the park.
A concerned citizen, (negro) called 911.
When the police arrived he put the handgun in his waistband. When the police officers told him to put his hands up instead the negro reached for the handgun. He was then shot.
Those are the facts.
Today's 'toy handguns' are impossible to tell from real handguns.
THAT"S WHY THE MANUFACTURER IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PAINT A BRIGHT ORANGE COLOURED TIP ON THE BARREL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some stupid negro removed the orange colour.
Then the budding gang banger goes to the park and starts waving the gun around and pointing it at people.
The police are trained to use deadly force if they believe they or someone else is in danger of their lives.
If the twelve year old had had a real semi automatic handgun and shot at the cops would you still be defending him?
Social Darwinism. Let's hope he hadn't already impregnated a few twelve years old 'baby mammas'.

plain fact is we have another child killed by cops for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THE COPS ARE COWARDS.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Playing?

Possibly a rush to judgement but this not likely.
Yes Playing, have you never played with toy guns as a kid?

The 'twelve year old' going on eighteen physically and five years mentally was waving a VERY accurate replica of a handgun.............with the orange tip REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at people in the park.
A concerned citizen, (negro) called 911.
When the police arrived he put the handgun in his waistband. When the police officers told him to put his hands up instead the negro reached for the handgun. He was then shot.
Those are the facts.
Today's 'toy handguns' are impossible to tell from real handguns.
THAT"S WHY THE MANUFACTURER IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PAINT A BRIGHT ORANGE COLOURED TIP ON THE BARREL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some stupid negro removed the orange colour.
Then the budding gang banger goes to the park and starts waving the gun around and pointing it at people.
The police are trained to use deadly force if they believe they or someone else is in danger of their lives.
If the twelve year old had had a real semi automatic handgun and shot at the cops would you still be defending him?
Social Darwinism. Let's hope he hadn't already impregnated a few twelve years old 'baby mammas'.

plain fact is we have another child killed by cops for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THE COPS ARE COWARDS.

Not wanting to risk being shot is cowardice not? Come on Mike.

 

[Wake]

plain fact is we have another child killed by cops for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THE COPS ARE COWARDS.

You are absolutely right.

I mean, he was just pointing a gun replica at random people for pete's sake.

 

[peach174]

Playing?

Possibly a rush to judgement but this not likely.
Yes Playing, have you never played with toy guns as a kid?

The 'twelve year old' going on eighteen physically and five years mentally was waving a VERY accurate replica of a handgun.............with the orange tip REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at people in the park.
A concerned citizen, (negro) called 911.
When the police arrived he put the handgun in his waistband. When the police officers told him to put his hands up instead the negro reached for the handgun. He was then shot.
Those are the facts.
Today's 'toy handguns' are impossible to tell from real handguns.
THAT"S WHY THE MANUFACTURER IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PAINT A BRIGHT ORANGE COLOURED TIP ON THE BARREL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some stupid negro removed the orange colour.
Then the budding gang banger goes to the park and starts waving the gun around and pointing it at people.
The police are trained to use deadly force if they believe they or someone else is in danger of their lives.
If the twelve year old had had a real semi automatic handgun and shot at the cops would you still be defending him?
Social Darwinism. Let's hope he hadn't already impregnated a few twelve years old 'baby mammas'.

plain fact is we have another child killed by cops for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THE COPS ARE COWARDS.

The kid was killed because he did not respect the law and did not do what he was told.

 

[RKMBrown]

Playing?

Possibly a rush to judgement but this not likely.
Yes Playing, have you never played with toy guns as a kid?

The 'twelve year old' going on eighteen physically and five years mentally was waving a VERY accurate replica of a handgun.............with the orange tip REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at people in the park.
A concerned citizen, (negro) called 911.
When the police arrived he put the handgun in his waistband. When the police officers told him to put his hands up instead the negro reached for the handgun. He was then shot.
Those are the facts.
Today's 'toy handguns' are impossible to tell from real handguns.
THAT"S WHY THE MANUFACTURER IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PAINT A BRIGHT ORANGE COLOURED TIP ON THE BARREL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some stupid negro removed the orange colour.
Then the budding gang banger goes to the park and starts waving the gun around and pointing it at people.
The police are trained to use deadly force if they believe they or someone else is in danger of their lives.
If the twelve year old had had a real semi automatic handgun and shot at the cops would you still be defending him?
Social Darwinism. Let's hope he hadn't already impregnated a few twelve years old 'baby mammas'.

plain fact is we have another child killed by cops for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN THE COPS ARE COWARDS.

Not wanting to risk being shot is cowardice not? Come on Mike.

Yes, shooting a twelve year old playing with a toy gun in a park is cowardice.