Colorado puts 25% tax on marijuana

[theDoctorisIn]

I drink beer often. I even have the glass carboy and some other stuff. I have never bothered to brew beer.
First, it requires more equipment, like bottles. Then the time to do it. Then I can get more variety out of buying different types of beer. Then the uncertainty how my product will turn out.
There is none of this with dope.
OTOH, people do roll their own cigarrrettes and localities have been restricting roll shops where they basically rent rolling machines. So there is tax avoidance in the production of cigs, as well as the sale in very high tax states.

There is no level of uncertainty of how marijuana will turn out based on how you grow it? The guy with the perfectly controlled temperature's weed will turn out exactly the same as the guy who has no heat mechanism and doesn't water properly because he works 12 hours a day elsewhere? There is no additional effort involved in planting, growing, harvesting, and preparing marijuana?

Of course there is. The turn out of any crop is defined by how it is cultivated. More importantly than that, is the strain in which one attempts to grow and where. A lot of effort in the past has gone into concealing a growing operation because it is illegal and comes with some pretty stiff penalties. That is no longer a factor. People can grow the shit in their backyard openly without a risk of penalty. They can grow it in their homes under lights with the same security.

As for brewing beer. You need more than just a little more equipment. You need hops and other items, a sterile environment and quit a bit of know how. On that note, I've brewed beer in the past several times and know many who make their own wines, beers, etc...

Most people consume alcohol socially. And in so, so it in bars, clubs, etc... with the excessive taxation laid on to cannibus cultivators and retailers, you're not going to see the boom in tourist attractions and nights spot that you would see had the state chosent o treat the product as an equal to other products. The tax is stiff, and will cause prices to run businesses that would promote such destinations and attractions rise higher than many will pay. People who want to participate will stay home and do it like they have been for decades.

You can't grow good weed outside without putting a significant effort into keeping your plants from being pollenated by floating wild pot pollen.

If the flowers are fertilized by male plant pollen, the THC content and yield drops by a factor of around 75%.

 

[eflatminor]

This is so staggeringly wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

Growing good weed is NOT easy. It requires hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and supplies, and will take 4-5 months to harvest.

Actually, one needs only a few seeds, sunshine, mother earth and water to grow cannabis. It's the second fastest growing plant on the planet and incredibly easy to grow. Hell, there's a low THC strain that grows in ditches throughout the Midwest. Grows like a weed...

It's easy to grow shitty weed. It's hard to grow good weed.

If you have the right equipment, you can take many strains to flower in about 5 weeks...so you're wrong there too.

You were saying something about 'staggering'???

Wait.. I thought you just said you didn't need any "equipment" other than soil, water and sun.

Bullshit. The THC content is in the seeds, not in how you grow it. Using hydroponics can result in faster time to flowering and more flowers per plant, but NOT "good weed". That comes from the genetics of the seeds and how you cure it once harvested.

And you don't need equipment to grow it, as everyone knows. The equipment allows for more growing cycles in a given time period. With mother nature, you get one cycle per year.

What you don't know about this subject is a lot.

 

[The Rabbi]

Again, 100% of people can brew their own beer with some simple kitchen equipment and minimal effort.

Why do we see so many people purchasing beer at stores/bars with insane taxes and markups? I can brew 5 gallons of beer at literally 1/5 the cost of what a bar would sell it to me at, and maybe 1/2 of what a store would sell.

Why won't you address this very relevant precedent?!

I drink beer often. I even have the glass carboy and some other stuff. I have never bothered to brew beer.
First, it requires more equipment, like bottles. Then the time to do it. Then I can get more variety out of buying different types of beer. Then the uncertainty how my product will turn out.
There is none of this with dope.
OTOH, people do roll their own cigarrrettes and localities have been restricting roll shops where they basically rent rolling machines. So there is tax avoidance in the production of cigs, as well as the sale in very high tax states.

There is no level of uncertainty of how marijuana will turn out based on how you grow it? The guy with the perfectly controlled temperature's weed will turn out exactly the same as the guy who has no heat mechanism and doesn't water properly because he works 12 hours a day elsewhere? That really doesn't sound right at all.

Also, there is no effort/ equipment involved in planting, growing, harvesting, and preparing marijuana? What about a field/place to plant? What about heat lamps? What about tools to test pH of soil?

It isnt that there is no difference. It is that MJ grows pretty easily (thus the term "weed") and the results will be acceptable no matter what. WIth beer, a bad result is unusable.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Actually, one needs only a few seeds, sunshine, mother earth and water to grow cannabis. It's the second fastest growing plant on the planet and incredibly easy to grow. Hell, there's a low THC strain that grows in ditches throughout the Midwest. Grows like a weed...

It's easy to grow shitty weed. It's hard to grow good weed.

If you have the right equipment, you can take many strains to flower in about 5 weeks...so you're wrong there too.

You were saying something about 'staggering'???

Wait.. I thought you just said you didn't need any "equipment" other than soil, water and sun.

Bullshit. The THC content is in the seeds, not in how you grow it. Using hydroponics can result in faster time to flowering and more flowers per plant, but NOT "good weed". That comes from the genetics of the seeds and how you cure it once harvested.

And you don't need equipment to grow it, as everyone knows. The equipment allows for more growing cycles in a given time period. With mother nature, you get one cycle per year.

What you don't know about this subject is a lot.

The THC content is not just dependent on the seeds, its also dependent on preventing your females from being pollenated.

At this point, I don't even know what your point is.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well here's the big question.

Why are people willing to pay $10 for a pack of cigarettes in Chicago (and they do so all of the time in vast, vast quantities), when they could instead grow the equivalent at a cost of maybe $0.10 (given that you said it costs about 2 cents for a big company to produce)?

Why are people willing to pay one hundred times the cost of a pack at a store vs. make it themselves?

You ever try growing tobacco in Chicago?
People do roll their own cigs. A nd especially they cheat the tax man by buying cigs illegally brought in. Why will dope be different?

Yes, people roll their own cigs. A lot do in fact. But no one grows and cures their own tobacco. I know of a homebrew crowd, a homeroast coffee crowd, but never once have I came across a home-tobacco growing crowd. That is the key part of the argument, Rabbi, lol.

Who buys cigarettes illegally brought in? Do you have stats for that? The closest thing to that I know of is folks driving out to the suburbs to buy a cheaper carton. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that I'm a young person who's been around a lot of smokers/parties and never once have I seen someone hit up a black market cigarette dealer, lol.

You just go to the 7/11 across the street....

You're making my argument for me, which is that growing tobacco is very different from growing weed.
The black market for cigs in NY is so enormous cops don't even write tickets for it, much less bust people.

 

[martybegan]

You ever try growing tobacco in Chicago?
People do roll their own cigs. A nd especially they cheat the tax man by buying cigs illegally brought in. Why will dope be different?

Yes, people roll their own cigs. A lot do in fact. But no one grows and cures their own tobacco. I know of a homebrew crowd, a homeroast coffee crowd, but never once have I came across a home-tobacco growing crowd. That is the key part of the argument, Rabbi, lol.

Who buys cigarettes illegally brought in? Do you have stats for that? The closest thing to that I know of is folks driving out to the suburbs to buy a cheaper carton. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that I'm a young person who's been around a lot of smokers/parties and never once have I seen someone hit up a black market cigarette dealer, lol.

You just go to the 7/11 across the street....

You're making my argument for me, which is that growing tobacco is very different from growing weed.
The black market for cigs in NY is so enormous cops don't even write tickets for it, much less bust people.

The NYC tax is more like 250%, not 25%. At that level of artificial inflation it does become profitable to bootleg an already legal product.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I drink beer often. I even have the glass carboy and some other stuff. I have never bothered to brew beer.
First, it requires more equipment, like bottles. Then the time to do it. Then I can get more variety out of buying different types of beer. Then the uncertainty how my product will turn out.
There is none of this with dope.
OTOH, people do roll their own cigarrrettes and localities have been restricting roll shops where they basically rent rolling machines. So there is tax avoidance in the production of cigs, as well as the sale in very high tax states.

There is no level of uncertainty of how marijuana will turn out based on how you grow it? The guy with the perfectly controlled temperature's weed will turn out exactly the same as the guy who has no heat mechanism and doesn't water properly because he works 12 hours a day elsewhere? That really doesn't sound right at all.

Also, there is no effort/ equipment involved in planting, growing, harvesting, and preparing marijuana? What about a field/place to plant? What about heat lamps? What about tools to test pH of soil?

It isnt that there is no difference. It is that MJ grows pretty easily (thus the term "weed") and the results will be acceptable no matter what. WIth beer, a bad result is unusable.

This pretty clearly shows how little you understand about the process of growing weed.

The results will not be "acceptable" no matter what.

 

[martybegan]

I drink beer often. I even have the glass carboy and some other stuff. I have never bothered to brew beer.
First, it requires more equipment, like bottles. Then the time to do it. Then I can get more variety out of buying different types of beer. Then the uncertainty how my product will turn out.
There is none of this with dope.
OTOH, people do roll their own cigarrrettes and localities have been restricting roll shops where they basically rent rolling machines. So there is tax avoidance in the production of cigs, as well as the sale in very high tax states.

There is no level of uncertainty of how marijuana will turn out based on how you grow it? The guy with the perfectly controlled temperature's weed will turn out exactly the same as the guy who has no heat mechanism and doesn't water properly because he works 12 hours a day elsewhere? That really doesn't sound right at all.

Also, there is no effort/ equipment involved in planting, growing, harvesting, and preparing marijuana? What about a field/place to plant? What about heat lamps? What about tools to test pH of soil?

It isnt that there is no difference. It is that MJ grows pretty easily (thus the term "weed") and the results will be acceptable no matter what. WIth beer, a bad result is unusable.

Growing crappy weed creates a pretty unusable product, unless someone prefers having to take 20 hits to get the effect of 2 hits from some primo stuff.

 

[manifold]

Wait and see how it actually turns out. If such a tax turns people from the legal outlets to the old reliable street corner dealer, it won't be such a good idea.

You mean like how people continued to buy booze from bootleggers after prohibition was repealed and alcohol taxes were jacked through the roof?

 

[The Rabbi]

Again, 100% of people can brew their own beer with some simple kitchen equipment and minimal effort.

Why do we see so many people purchasing beer at stores/bars with insane taxes and markups? I can brew 5 gallons of beer at literally 1/5 the cost of what a bar would sell it to me at, and maybe 1/2 of what a store would sell.

Why won't you address this very relevant precedent?!

I drink beer often. I even have the glass carboy and some other stuff. I have never bothered to brew beer.
First, it requires more equipment, like bottles. Then the time to do it. Then I can get more variety out of buying different types of beer. Then the uncertainty how my product will turn out.
There is none of this with dope.
OTOH, people do roll their own cigarrrettes and localities have been restricting roll shops where they basically rent rolling machines. So there is tax avoidance in the production of cigs, as well as the sale in very high tax states.

This is so staggeringly wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

Growing good weed is NOT easy. It requires hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and supplies, and will take 4-5 months to harvest.

Do you see the word "good" in your post? Can you tell me how it negates your argument? Sure you can.

I had a cousin who worked for the CIA as an analyst on the Iran desk. He had a plant growing in his office.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I drink beer often. I even have the glass carboy and some other stuff. I have never bothered to brew beer.
First, it requires more equipment, like bottles. Then the time to do it. Then I can get more variety out of buying different types of beer. Then the uncertainty how my product will turn out.
There is none of this with dope.
OTOH, people do roll their own cigarrrettes and localities have been restricting roll shops where they basically rent rolling machines. So there is tax avoidance in the production of cigs, as well as the sale in very high tax states.

This is so staggeringly wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

Growing good weed is NOT easy. It requires hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and supplies, and will take 4-5 months to harvest.

Do you see the word "good" in your post? Can you tell me how it negates your argument? Sure you can.

I had a cousin who worked for the CIA as an analyst on the Iran desk. He had a plant growing in his office.

By "good", I mean weed that's actually worthwhile to smoke.

That plant on your cousin's desk likely never flowered.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wait and see how it actually turns out. If such a tax turns people from the legal outlets to the old reliable street corner dealer, it won't be such a good idea.

You mean like how people continued to buy booze from bootleggers after prohibition was repealed and alcohol taxes were jacked through the roof?

You think there are no bootleggers anymore?

 

[The Rabbi]

This is so staggeringly wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

Growing good weed is NOT easy. It requires hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and supplies, and will take 4-5 months to harvest.

Do you see the word "good" in your post? Can you tell me how it negates your argument? Sure you can.

I had a cousin who worked for the CIA as an analyst on the Iran desk. He had a plant growing in his office.

By "good", I mean weed that's actually worthwhile to smoke.

That plant on your cousin's desk likely never flowered.

"Worthwhile to smoke" is a value judgment.
It didnt because his supervisor asked him what it was. he told him it was a geranium. His supervisor told him to get rid of it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Why would they go back and pay more. It is cheaper and more accessible the legal way.

How do you think drug dealers are going to deal with legal competition?

The same way bootleggers dealt with theirs..

Not that kindly. The same way the cartels deal with competition now. The legal outlets are mostly fronts for organized crime cartels. They will exist for awhile and then start back to the ways they are used to dealing with competition.

 

[manifold]

Wait and see how it actually turns out. If such a tax turns people from the legal outlets to the old reliable street corner dealer, it won't be such a good idea.

You mean like how people continued to buy booze from bootleggers after prohibition was repealed and alcohol taxes were jacked through the roof?

You think there are no bootleggers anymore?

I'm sure there are a few. But I'm glad you got the point that taxing weed won't send people scurrying underground in droves to buy it illegally.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you see the word "good" in your post? Can you tell me how it negates your argument? Sure you can.

I had a cousin who worked for the CIA as an analyst on the Iran desk. He had a plant growing in his office.

By "good", I mean weed that's actually worthwhile to smoke.

That plant on your cousin's desk likely never flowered.

"Worthwhile to smoke" is a value judgment.
It didnt because his supervisor asked him what it was. he told him it was a geranium. His supervisor told him to get rid of it.

Your cousin could have left it there for years, and it would likely never have flowered without a grow light installed in his office.

And "worthwhile to smoke" is not a value judgement, as anyone who's actually ever smoked pot can tell you.

The active ingredient in weed is THC, and flowers can have anywhere between 0% THC and 30% THC by volume, depending on factors such as pollination, strain, and genetic randomness. The difference in street value of weed with 4% THC and 20% THC is a by factor of almost 10. (An ounce of shitty dirt weed has a street value of about $50. An ounce of good weed is nearly $500)

 

[manifold]

I honestly lol'd at a some of the truly ignorant comments posted in this thread.

Apparently some retards believe that the cost structure and required returns of black market distribution channels are exactly the same as legal channels and that the only difference in cost is the 25% tax rate.

just. fucking. wow!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You can't grow good weed outside without putting a significant effort into keeping your plants from being pollenated by floating wild pot pollen.

If the flowers are fertilized by male plant pollen, the THC content and yield drops by a factor of around 75%.

Wild pot pollen?

Thats a first. I'm not interested in giving too much away on my knowledge of the subject, but this is the first of this I've ever heard. Ever.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Wait and see how it actually turns out. If such a tax turns people from the legal outlets to the old reliable street corner dealer, it won't be such a good idea.

You mean like how people continued to buy booze from bootleggers after prohibition was repealed and alcohol taxes were jacked through the roof?

You think there are no bootleggers anymore?

By your approximation, what percentage of alcohol sales in this country are "black market" today?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You can't grow good weed outside without putting a significant effort into keeping your plants from being pollenated by floating wild pot pollen.

If the flowers are fertilized by male plant pollen, the THC content and yield drops by a factor of around 75%.

Wild pot pollen?

Thats a first. I'm not interested in giving too much away on my knowledge of the subject, but this si the first of this I've ever heard. Ever.

Well, it happens. Marijuana is a weed, as has been pointed out. It can grow anywhere, and the pollen can float pretty far.