communism v capitalism

[daveman]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Anyone who makes that claim isn't interested in facts.

Run along now.

so you can't debate me?

You're not interested in debate. You want instant, unquestioning agreement and support.

You won't get that from anyone connected to reality.

 

[daveman]

This has has to be a joke, Communism collapsed like dark matter on itself because all things being equal: It was overrun with demagogues. Like the American Democratic party supporting race riots and the BLM.

no country has existed under communism. stop using ad hominems. they make your argument look weaker than it is because you have to employ the use of pathos in a decidedly logos-fueled debate.

did you forget communism is a form of capitalism???,,, just a smaller group of people keep the profits,,,

communism exists under the idea that there is no capital, no money, no class, no private property, and that the people own the means of production.

It always -- ALWAYS -- fails, because like all leftist Utopian schemes, it doesn't take human nature into account.

 

[daveman]

Communism is well meaning, I get it. Really, communism is the political equivalent of the perpetual motion machine, it sounds nice but never works in actuality.

it could work in reality. it just requires the people to work hard to maintain a society. capitalism the equivalent of taking all easy classes in high school, sure they're all easy and really hard to mess up, but it won't last you very long in the real world. communism is like ap courses. they're far harder, but if you can maintain it, you'll be far happier in the long run.

You may have a point. People in mass graves never complain.

 

[daveman]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Anyone who makes that claim isn't interested in facts.

Run along now.

so you can't debate me?

No, I can't, but not for the reason you imagine.

Make your case.

you go first since you're so adamant about embarrassing yourself.

Impossible. I'm not a Communist.

 

[daveman]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

 

[Zorro!]

If you want to drain the Stupid out of an empty-headed "I took an intro pol/sci course once" liberal, stick him in a communist country (yes, even if in name only) for a few years.

I understand that point of view, and for the most part I think it's accurate, but I know a guy who is Bernie progressive married to a North Vietnamese, proud communist, and her work ethic, honesty, thrift, ethic of hardworking productivity would stand up against anyone, and it's tied to her culture, which has high trust for their government, fierce loyalty to country and nationality with vast interconnected families that no one would dream of bringing shame to. Communism is a good fit for them, but frankly, with those characteristics so deeply embedded into their society, I wonder if maybe any system would work. They just have a number of inherent characteristics that are associated with a successful society.

It's funny as her husband is always in debt, struggles with remaining employed, doesn't have a pattern of meeting his needs with enough left over to save and invest. His governmental solutions are all about providing for the shiftless when she thinks that if they are able bodied they should get jobs or endure the consequences. She doesn't view what we call Socialism/Communism as representative of her communist society at all. There, I think that irresponsible slackards, especially if they engage in crime, might find a judge ordering the bailiff to take the guy out back and delivering a redemptive caning.

 

[LuckyDuck]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Communism came about as a result of the then emerging "industrial age." For example, Karl Marx was born in 1818 and died in 1885. His thinking, as was that of Vladimir Lenin, et cetera, was formed by the experiences of workers in an era where they basically had two choices: Don't work and starve or, work and be treated like a dog and just make enough to keep you breathing and working. There were no labor laws back then. No worker protection. BUT...that was the way it was in the early Industrial Age.
As times changed, so to did the influence of workers. Unions were created to ensure rights for the employees. Safety programs were enacted for workers (think Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)). Monopolies were broken up to ensure more opportunity for individuals and groups to succeed in their own ventures. Larger firms were able to have health insurance coverage for employees, via mutual contributions from both the corporations and their employees. In many areas, minimum wages were established. Maternity leave was provided in larger firms that could afford it. On and on the improvements have occurring.
As for the idea of the workers getting the companies profits, that's where a line has to be drawn. Ask yourself, who takes all the financial risk with the company? The owner/president. he/she/or whatever you want to call it, is the one that pays for the following: The land upon which the company sits, the building in which the work is conducted, the utilities to keep the machinery/lights/water/etc. moving along, the permits, the insurance coverage against natural and manmade disasters, along with insurance to cover the costs of employee injuries and of course, city, county, state and federal taxes. There is of course, the obligatory reimbursement to the banks that helped fund the enterprise and last, paying the employees. The owner incurs literally>>>>ALL the risks. The most the employee risks, is the loss of his/her/its job, which he/she/it can get in another company. The employer loses literally everything. Thus, the profits should go to the employer, rather than some person that may just be stuffing an eraser in the end of a pencil along some assembly line.
If you look at the Communist nations there's a big problem that hasn't been overcome in relation to productivity and that's "innovation." The lack of financial incentive for independent thinkers and for the Communist run companies, "stifles innovation." To that end, they are consistently trying to "steal" western technology, which has the free-market capitalist method of instilling innovation for someone to achieve success and live better.
One thing I continually hear from the left in the street is the chant..."Income Equality!" Yet, if you ask them...."Income Equality" with what or who? they can't answer and just repeat the lame mantra..."Income Equality." Does the poorly or high school educated, burger flipper get the same income as a neurosurgeon? I think not! That would negate anyone from wanting to waste 11 years of their life to become a neurosurgeon, when all they have to do, is mow a few lawns or wipe down tables to get the same income as the burger flipper.
Is the idea pertaining to women making the same income as men, as they claim not to? A study found that incomes did differ, but only because the women were putting in less hours on the job than men. They had what they perceived were important "outside" issues that precluded them from putting in 60 or more hours on the job, namely children. The companies didn't issue them kids and therefore aren't responsible for their private life choices. If you can't put in as many hours as the men, you don't get the same pay. If however, you do put in the same amount of time on the job, have an equal position and work just as hard as your male counterpart, then yes, you should be paid equally.

 

[Erinwltr]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

 

[Erinwltr]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Communism came about as a result of the then emerging "industrial age." For example, Karl Marx was born in 1818 and died in 1885. His thinking, as was that of Vladimir Lenin, et cetera, was formed by the experiences of workers in an era where they basically had two choices: Don't work and starve or, work and be treated like a dog and just make enough to keep you breathing and working. There were no labor laws back then. No worker protection. BUT...that was the way it was in the early Industrial Age.
As times changed, so to did the influence of workers. Unions were created to ensure rights for the employees. Safety programs were enacted for workers (think Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)). Monopolies were broken up to ensure more opportunity for individuals and groups to succeed in their own ventures. Larger firms were able to have health insurance coverage for employees, via mutual contributions from both the corporations and their employees. In many areas, minimum wages were established. Maternity leave was provided in larger firms that could afford it. On and on the improvements have occurring.
As for the idea of the workers getting the companies profits, that's where a line has to be drawn. Ask yourself, who takes all the financial risk with the company? The owner/president. he/she/or whatever you want to call it, is the one that pays for the following: The land upon which the company sits, the building in which the work is conducted, the utilities to keep the machinery/lights/water/etc. moving along, the permits, the insurance coverage against natural and manmade disasters, along with insurance to cover the costs of employee injuries and of course, city, county, state and federal taxes. There is of course, the obligatory reimbursement to the banks that helped fund the enterprise and last, paying the employees. The owner incurs literally>>>>ALL the risks. The most the employee risks, is the loss of his/her/its job, which he/she/it can get in another company. The employer loses literally everything. Thus, the profits should go to the employer, rather than some person that may just be stuffing an eraser in the end of a pencil along some assembly line.
If you look at the Communist nations there's a big problem that hasn't been overcome in relation to productivity and that's "innovation." The lack of financial incentive for independent thinkers and for the Communist run companies, "stifles innovation." To that end, they are consistently trying to "steal" western technology, which has the free-market capitalist method of instilling innovation for someone to achieve success and live better.
One thing I continually hear from the left in the street is the chant..."Income Equality!" Yet, if you ask them...."Income Equality" with what or who? they can't answer and just repeat the lame mantra..."Income Equality." Does the poorly or high school educated, burger flipper get the same income as a neurosurgeon? I think not! That would negate anyone from wanting to waste 11 years of their life to become a neurosurgeon, when all they have to do, is mow a few lawns or wipe down tables to get the same income as the burger flipper.
Is the idea pertaining to women making the same income as men, as they claim not to? A study found that incomes did differ, but only because the women were putting in less hours on the job than men. They had what they perceived were important "outside" issues that precluded them from putting in 60 or more hours on the job, namely children. The companies didn't issue them kids and therefore aren't responsible for their private life choices. If you can't put in as many hours as the men, you don't get the same pay. If however, you do put in the same amount of time on the job, have an equal position and work just as hard as your male counterpart, then yes, you should be paid equally.

Wall of Words.

 

[daveman]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

 

[Zorro!]

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property private ownership and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership of the means of production and allows individual choices in a free market to determine how goods and services are distributed. Socialists complain that capitalism necessarily leads to unfair and exploitative concentrations of wealth and power in the hands of the relative few who emerge victorious from free-market competition—people who then use their wealth and power to reinforce their dominance in society. Because such people are rich, they may choose where and how to live, and their choices in turn limit the options of the poor. As a result, terms such as individual freedom and equality of opportunity may be meaningful for capitalists but can only ring hollow for working people, who must do the capitalists’ bidding if they are to survive. As socialists see it, true freedom and true equality require social control of the resources that provide the basis for prosperity in any society. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels made this point in Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848) when they proclaimed that in a socialist society “the condition for the free development of each is the free development of all.”

This fundamental conviction nevertheless leaves room for socialists to disagree among themselves with regard to two key points. The first concerns the extent and the kind of property that society should own or control. Some socialists have thought that almost everything except personal items such as clothing should be public property; this is true, for example, of the society envisioned by the English humanist Sir Thomas More in his Utopia (1516). Other socialists, however, have been willing to accept or even welcome private ownership of farms, shops, and other small or medium-sized businesses.

Its entirely possible to have a hybrid system. For all the claims among conservatives that 'socialism doesn't work', tenets of socialism work fine. For example....single payer healthcare. Almost every industrialized nation on the planet has some form of it. And its leans heavily toward socialism. Public schools, national parks, national banks, labor laws, environmental protections.....all skew the same way.

Capitalism, when restrained and mitigated in a hybrid system, is a powerful engine of commerce. But left to its own devices, it becomes wildly unstable, environmentally destructive, horrifically exploitative, anti-competitive and monopolistic. A stronger central government tempered by more socialistic tenets can mitigate these tendencies.

And yes, we can absolutely pick and choose what we want. There is no requirement that if we have ANY socialist leaning institutions, all institutions must be. As demonstrated by robust hybrid economies around the world with both free markets....and single payer healthcare and public education.

It's clear to me that that we could agree on some political goals and work cooperatively on them. There are things that you want to see accomplished because of your social justice views that I want to see accomplished due to the greater securing of individual fundamental rights.

Sometimes what we agree on can be more important than what we disagree on.

 

[Erinwltr]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

 

[Zorro!]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

No one has to apologize for honest work. That works out to $60,000 a year, a solid middle class income.

Are you in the middle class?

See where you fit in the distribution of Americans by income tier and metro area. ...

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Erinwltr]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

No one has to apologize for honest work. That works out to $60,000 a year, a solid middle class income.

Are you in the middle class?

See where you fit in the distribution of Americans by income tier and metro area. ...

www.pewresearch.org

No one is apologizing. 60K a year is respectable. Net. Do the math.

 

[daveman]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

Not interested. I've been in 2 unions before. They were fucking useless. I got nothing for the dues I paid.

 

[daveman]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

No one has to apologize for honest work. That works out to $60,000 a year, a solid middle class income.

Are you in the middle class?

See where you fit in the distribution of Americans by income tier and metro area. ...

www.pewresearch.org

No one is apologizing. 60K a year is respectable. Net. Do the math.

I also have a pension from the USAF. I'm doing okay. Your approval is neither sought nor required.

 

[Erinwltr]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

No one has to apologize for honest work. That works out to $60,000 a year, a solid middle class income.

Are you in the middle class?

See where you fit in the distribution of Americans by income tier and metro area. ...

www.pewresearch.org

No one is apologizing. 60K a year is respectable. Net. Do the math.

I also have a pension from the USAF. I'm doing okay. Your approval is neither sought nor required.

I already posted no one is apologizing and you comment that "approval is neither sought nor required."
Enjoy your retirement money. I'm happy for ya.

 

[RobbinBobbin]

omg lol
CENTRISM IS THE BEST (sorry for caps)

 

[justinacolmena]

omg lol
CENTRISM IS THE BEST (sorry for caps)

In some respects, the question of communism vs. capitalism is the same as that of extraversion vs introversion.

Page Not Found

Myers & Briggs Foundation

www.myersbriggs.org

Communism is a form of "extraversion" whereas capitalism is "introversion." People do need both. Common space to socialize, but also private property to be alone or in private with immediate family and loved ones.

 

[daveman]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

Innovation is not rewarded under Communism. Why put forth any extra effort when you're not recognized for it?

And what did your innovative effort today contribute to you paycheck?

Around 30 bucks an hour plus bennies. Try it! It's fun!

You're underpaid. 30.00 bucks. A good-O- Union might do you some good.

No one has to apologize for honest work. That works out to $60,000 a year, a solid middle class income.

Are you in the middle class?

See where you fit in the distribution of Americans by income tier and metro area. ...

www.pewresearch.org

No one is apologizing. 60K a year is respectable. Net. Do the math.

I also have a pension from the USAF. I'm doing okay. Your approval is neither sought nor required.

I already posted no one is apologizing and you comment that "approval is neither sought nor required."
Enjoy your retirement money. I'm happy for ya.

Thanks. All done without union interference.