Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[Ray From Cleveland]

If they bothered to look at the Northeast liberal states, they would see those states are not far behind Commiefornia. Over 800K for a moderate house, 12 bucks for a pack of cigarettes, high taxation, government taking care of them from cradle to grave...........

You're such a liar. Or just a loser who hasn't been engaged in the housing market lately.


Post it up.

All you have to do is what I do, and that is watch the HGTV channel. Property Brothers is the best show, but they have other House Hunter programs that clearly show how little you get for your money in many liberal states.

Post up the median home prices for the states you're referring to.

Sure, no problem:

Here's how much home $300,000 will buy you in every US state

If you don't have time to go through the list, in short a house here in Ohio is about 88 dollars per sq ft. The Massholes are paying 226 per sq ft. In Rhode Island, it's about 184 peer sq foot. In Cali, it's over three times our cost at 280 per sq ft. DC, close to 500 a sq ft. and so on.

Median home price.

What's the difference? A median home in DC is a starter home here. The list gives you the average sq ft. price no matter what size home you build or buy.

 

[AntonToo]

You pay 12c...oook and? how does that help ares with more expesive electricity? Does it help people in NY that will pay 20 or Hawaii that pay 30?

I still pay monthly fee for the grid and "other people" (since when is me paying less taxes equates to OTHER PEOPLE?) pay for all kinds of things starting with expenses of making the grid black-out proof that solar energy realy helps with.

I still pay monthly fee for the grid and "other people"

You never did say how much your bill used to be, how much it is now.......

Yes I did. Unit is expected to produce 10500 kWh a year, which is a bit over 100% of my expected energy consumption.

Other than energy you also pay for base grid charge.

My last bill was $15.

Yes I did. Unit is expected to produce 10500 kWh a year, which is a bit over 100% of my expected energy consumption.

No you didn't. You said how much less power you bought.

My last bill was $15.

Thanks. How much were they before you installed solar?

You don’t get it - electrical bills fluctuate month to month. Everything being equal you will spend more on electricity in hotter months due to more AC use. My march-aprill bill (before) is not directly comparable to April-May (after) bill.

What matters is annual output and consumption, which I gave you. My avg. annual bill was $~200 and because I now should produce over 100% of electricity consumed and my bill should now be about $15-20 monthly.

My avg. annual bill was $~200 and because I now should produce over 100% of electricity consumed and my bill should now be about $15-20 monthly.

You mean your average monthly bill was $200?

yes

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Thanks for the link.
Shockingly, they didn't give any specifics.
Try again?

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

So, you're arguing that the govt subsidies for coal is good but a subsidy for an industry that employs three times as many is not?
Explain that logic.

Are there three times as many solar jobs as coal jobs?

So, you're arguing that the govt subsidies for coal is good

I'm pointing out a state subsidy to retain industry shouldn't be considered proof of a supposed
Federal subsidy for fossil fuels.

but a subsidy for an industry that employs three times as many is not?

Good point, the "green energy" industry isn't very productive.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

No more than an outdated kitchen and bathrooms do.

You were referring to a comparison of the sale price of a home with a solar system.

Not true. Typical in your desperate state, you try to compare apples to avocados. We are discussing adding $70,000 to the existing property, be it new or old. Adding $70,000 to a 2,500 sq. ft. well built house in our area, North Florida, you might as well flush down your indoor toilet.

Spending that $70,000 on a pool, cage, landscaping will return an additional $20,000 to $30,000. to the price when you sell. If the home is, say 30 years old and in a good location and you spend $70,000. to remodel the kitchen and baths and the house will undoubtedly sell for $100,000 or more than the selling price would be without the remodel. Kitchens and baths are important to a buyer, $70,000 in solar paraphernalia is not.

Bullshit. It's just another system of the home.
Solar panels are not $70k, liar.
They cost less than your kitchen quote especially twenty or thirty years on from their original install.

 

[bripat9643]

All the interstate highway system did is bankrupt the railroads. That was a private system that didn't require any tax money to be spent, and it was perfectly adequate for interstate travel. So the interstate highway system actually retarded the economic development of this country by diverting huge amounts of capital into a system that wasn't needed.

The governent had very little to do with with the development of the internet. I was responsible for perhaps one of the pieces out of the 20 that were needed to make it viable.

Sure, dope. All of those trucks on the interstate are retarding economic development.

Sure they are. Trains are much more efficient. Interstate trucking is viable only because the taxpayers are footing a big part of the cost.

Sure, dope. If only walmart would just choose to utilize the tracks that run up to their loading docks, then murica would finally be free.

Only a dumbass turd like you doesn't understand how or infrastructure can be designed around rail tansport rather than truck transport. Furthermore, I said for "interstate transport." Trucks have always been used for local deliveries. containers can be lifted right off a train and onto a semi. That technology is in place right now.

Slice it any way you'd like. Your point is empty. We've all driven the interstates. You're only talking at yourself. All you dumbass rural folks know all the action is at the interstate.

"We've all driven the interstates" is not an argument in favor of the interstates.

All you're saying is that your fingers are insertedly firmly in your ears so you can't hear anything that contradicts your comfortable world of delusion.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It would seem to me that they would realize a considerable payback on their investment during those 20 years and when the house is sold with solar generating capacity it would surely draw a higher price.

I don't know about that. I mean, if I'm looking to buy a 20 year old house and see those things on the roof, my first thought is "how many of those MF's am I going to have to replace in the next ten years?"

Solar panels lose performance as time goes on. Also their life expectancy is based on the environment of the house. Solar panels lose production if they are in very windy areas where branches and pebbles are blown around that can scratch the surface reducing it's performance. In low wind high sun areas, that heat does a number on those panels as well.

Solar panels require pretty low maintenance. Unlike generators which are composed of moving components which require repair or replacement, solar panels do not have moving parts that can rust or breakdown. About the only routine maintenance is spraying them down with a garden hose. The panels are warrantied for 20 or 25 years and with the new central inverter they could last for a number of decades.

Yes, if it's a single level home. Two family or two story homes would be a bit more of a challenge.

I don't know about that. I mean, if I'm looking to buy a 20 year old house and see those things on the roof, my first thought is "how many of those MF's am I going to have to replace in the next ten years?"

That's part of the deal with any system or structure of any home being sold. That calculation affects the purchase price just as it does now.

Well yes, exactly. That's why I challenge the idea that solar panels actually increase the value of a home. IMO, it would decrease the value if anything.

No more than an outdated kitchen and bathrooms do.

Correct. But I never made the claim an outdated bathroom or kitchen will increase the value of a home either.

Right. You made the claim that they decrease the value.

I said, no more than an outdated kitchen or bathroom would.

It's just another system that's part of the calculation of value just as a twenty year old hvac system or roof.

 

[Andylusion]

California is the most capitalist place ever. Look at the cost of living and number of homeless.

Capitalism doesn't do that--liberalism does that.

.

Capitalism creates wealth. Socialism robs wealth.

If these Moon Bats would ever take a course in Economics they would understand simple things like that.

Capitalism creates wealth

.......for a very small percentage of users.

Have you always been this desperate or only since November 9, 2016?

Post up a graph of wealth distribution in America, fool.

Fast fact.... in the US, almost 80% of the wealthy are first generation rich.

Meaning people who started out with nothing, and ended up making millions.

The immigrant who became a drone firm boss

In Socialist countries, you are either part of the elite or your are not, and never will be.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

That's not an oil subsidy, you fuck head. And it's certainly not a federal subsidy.

It's a directsubsidy oil company recieved that made it more competetive.

Untill you can dispute even a single word of that sentence you need to stfu.

Subsidy: money given as part of the cost of something to help or encourage it to happen:

Your solar subsidy gives you money to encourage you to buy solar panels.

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

Retain and create jobs per your link, dope.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs

Retain and create jobs per your link

Excellent!!!
It's not a subsidy for oil, it's a subsidy for jobs.
Glad you understand.

 

[Markle]

So?
You still have not answered question, why force someone to put solar panels on their own house?
It makes no sense to force that horse shit on anyone...

A contractor who builds a new house for another has no legal right after the house is sold.

Typical government overreach...

Spending $20 per month to save $80 to $300 per month sounds pretty good to me.

Where are you getting your numbers from? I'll be the first to admit I'm no calculator wiz, so I went to Lending Tree mortgage calculator to compare your numbers.

According to the mortgage calculator, at the current rate of interest, your extra bill would be about $100.00 a month based on a 30 year mortgage. With a 15 year mortgage, about $150.00 a month. I used the capital of 20K for the calculations since that seems to be the general consensus of what a solar panel system would cost.

LendingTree.com - Compare Lenders

This is the average.

Now, keep in mind, your number is fixed for thirty years. The number I provided will steadily rise over those thirty years.



The Cost of Living in California - SmartAsset

Utilities
Californians pay relatively low utility bills. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Californians consume an average of 562 kWh per month. They pay an average of 16.25 cents/kWh and have an average monthly bill of $91.26. For reference, the most expensive average monthly bill is Hawaii ($187.59) and the cheapest is New Mexico ($77.79). The U.S. average is $114.11.

From YOUR source.

California is a state of extremes. It’s home to some of America’s richest and poorest counties. That means there’s no single cost of living in California. Still, there are some things that apply to locations across the state – like the high income tax.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

A contractor who builds a new house for another has no legal right after the house is sold.

Typical government overreach...

Spending $20 per month to save $80 to $300 per month sounds pretty good to me.

Where are you getting your numbers from? I'll be the first to admit I'm no calculator wiz, so I went to Lending Tree mortgage calculator to compare your numbers.

According to the mortgage calculator, at the current rate of interest, your extra bill would be about $100.00 a month based on a 30 year mortgage. With a 15 year mortgage, about $150.00 a month. I used the capital of 20K for the calculations since that seems to be the general consensus of what a solar panel system would cost.

LendingTree.com - Compare Lenders

This is the average.

Now, keep in mind, your number is fixed for thirty years. The number I provided will steadily rise over those thirty years.



The Cost of Living in California - SmartAsset

Utilities
Californians pay relatively low utility bills. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Californians consume an average of 562 kWh per month. They pay an average of 16.25 cents/kWh and have an average monthly bill of $91.26. For reference, the most expensive average monthly bill is Hawaii ($187.59) and the cheapest is New Mexico ($77.79). The U.S. average is $114.11.

Okay, but according to Fox news, it's mostly because of government subsidies.

California government mandates send electricity prices skyrocketing, but Texas free market policies keep prices low

My link is from seven days ago. $91/mo is not skyrocketing.

How can you not see the benefit of locking in your electric cost at $100/mo for the next thirty years as a benefit?

Fox news is the problem.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You're such a liar. Or just a loser who hasn't been engaged in the housing market lately.


Post it up.

All you have to do is what I do, and that is watch the HGTV channel. Property Brothers is the best show, but they have other House Hunter programs that clearly show how little you get for your money in many liberal states.

Post up the median home prices for the states you're referring to.

Sure, no problem:

Here's how much home $300,000 will buy you in every US state

If you don't have time to go through the list, in short a house here in Ohio is about 88 dollars per sq ft. The Massholes are paying 226 per sq ft. In Rhode Island, it's about 184 peer sq foot. In Cali, it's over three times our cost at 280 per sq ft. DC, close to 500 a sq ft. and so on.

Median home price.

What's the difference? A median home in DC is a starter home here. The list gives you the average sq ft. price no matter what size home you build or buy.

You dishonestly chose DC. You said the north east at $800k.

 

[Markle]

Solar is the electrical eqivalent of a well, fool.

By mandating it, the future will see fewer users at higher rates making solar an even better deal.

That's just foolish.

If I build a house in the country, it is a simple matter to have electric supplied. Instead of water and sewer connections, I will have to install a well, pump and septic tank. It isn't a choice, it is required if I am to live in the house.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Sure, dope. All of those trucks on the interstate are retarding economic development.

Sure they are. Trains are much more efficient. Interstate trucking is viable only because the taxpayers are footing a big part of the cost.

Sure, dope. If only walmart would just choose to utilize the tracks that run up to their loading docks, then murica would finally be free.

Only a dumbass turd like you doesn't understand how or infrastructure can be designed around rail tansport rather than truck transport. Furthermore, I said for "interstate transport." Trucks have always been used for local deliveries. containers can be lifted right off a train and onto a semi. That technology is in place right now.

Slice it any way you'd like. Your point is empty. We've all driven the interstates. You're only talking at yourself. All you dumbass rural folks know all the action is at the interstate.

"We've all driven the interstates" is not an argument in favor of the interstates.

All you're saying is that your fingers are insertedly firmly in your ears so you can't hear anything that contradicts your comfortable world of delusion.

It's an argument against your inane assertions. We all know the truth. The suburbs and their ever growing sprawl exist because of the interstate system.

 

[Markle]

It's a directsubsidy oil company recieved that made it more competetive.

Untill you can dispute even a single word of that sentence you need to stfu.

Subsidy: money given as part of the cost of something to help or encourage it to happen:

Your solar subsidy gives you money to encourage you to buy solar panels.

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

I did not ask for the definition of the word subsidy. I asked what a subsidy was to you.

As you know, many Progressives erroneously consider tax deductions, available to any business, a subsidy, which it is not

There is only one definition.

True, but Progressives have their own meaning for things.

Again, is a tax deduction, to you, a subsidy. Simple question, yes or no?

It can be if it's designed to benefit society. As in job retention or creation. What's the purpose otherwise?

Is a tax deduction a subsidy? Yes or no?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes they did in supporting links.

Her eis a tiny exmaple:

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database. “I think Marathon always wanted to be here,” Republican governor John Kasich said in 2011. “All we’re doing is helping them.” In 2011, Kasich was named as the top recipient of oil and gas donations in Ohio, having received $213, 519. The same year Kasich appointed Marathon Petroleum’s CEO to the board of Jobs Ohio, a semi-private group “in charge of the economic growth in the state of Ohio”.

Thanks. I clicked through several of the links and didn't see any oil subsidies.

In Ohio, Marathon Petroleum is benefitting from a 15-year tax credit for retaining 1,650 jobs and a 10-year tax credit for creating 100 new jobs. The subsidy is worth $78.5m, according to the Good Jobs First database.

That's not an oil subsidy, that's a job subsidy. And it doesn't back the previous claim....Oil, gas, and coal industries get a shocking amount of funding from the US government

Keep trying, there must be some out there..........

Nonsense, this oil company DIRECTLY BENEFITED from these subsidies, directly made more competetive. Certainly that counts as an example of oil industry getting subsidies.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs"
could probably get some sort of tax credit from that state, or another. You can argue for and against states doing that for all sorts of reasons, but Ohio doing that doesn't help the original claim.....

the US government provided about $6 billion annually in financial support to the oil, gas, and coal industries between 2013 and 2015

I know it's difficult for you, but try to focus.

So, you're arguing that the govt subsidies for coal is good but a subsidy for an industry that employs three times as many is not?
Explain that logic.

Are there three times as many solar jobs as coal jobs?

So, you're arguing that the govt subsidies for coal is good

I'm pointing out a state subsidy to retain industry shouldn't be considered proof of a supposed
Federal subsidy for fossil fuels.

but a subsidy for an industry that employs three times as many is not?

Good point, the "green energy" industry isn't very productive.

Speak to this.
Are there three times as many solar jobs as coal jobs?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Subsidy: money given as part of the cost of something to help or encourage it to happen:

Your solar subsidy gives you money to encourage you to buy solar panels.

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

I did not ask for the definition of the word subsidy. I asked what a subsidy was to you.

As you know, many Progressives erroneously consider tax deductions, available to any business, a subsidy, which it is not

There is only one definition.

True, but Progressives have their own meaning for things.

Again, is a tax deduction, to you, a subsidy. Simple question, yes or no?

It can be if it's designed to benefit society. As in job retention or creation. What's the purpose otherwise?

Is a tax deduction a subsidy? Yes or no?

I said it can be.
Is there a subsidy with the ACA?

A subsidy is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector (or institution, business, or individual) generally with the aim of promoting economic and social policy.[1] Although commonly extended from government, the term subsidy can relate to any type of support – for example from NGOs or as implicit subsidies. Subsidies come in various forms including: direct (cash grants, interest-free loans) and indirect (tax breaks, insurance, low-interest loans, accelerated depreciation, rent rebates).[2][3]

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Capitalism doesn't do that--liberalism does that.

.

Capitalism creates wealth. Socialism robs wealth.

If these Moon Bats would ever take a course in Economics they would understand simple things like that.

Capitalism creates wealth

.......for a very small percentage of users.

Have you always been this desperate or only since November 9, 2016?

Post up a graph of wealth distribution in America, fool.

Fast fact.... in the US, almost 80% of the wealthy are first generation rich.

Meaning people who started out with nothing, and ended up making millions.

The immigrant who became a drone firm boss

In Socialist countries, you are either part of the elite or your are not, and never will be.

Post up a graph that shows wealth distribution in America.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You can't even admit that a blatant oil company subsidy is a subsidy, so what the fuck is the point of me going to fetch you 1000 more?

You are drunk on stupid.

That's not an oil subsidy, you fuck head. And it's certainly not a federal subsidy.

It's a directsubsidy oil company recieved that made it more competetive.

Untill you can dispute even a single word of that sentence you need to stfu.

Subsidy: money given as part of the cost of something to help or encourage it to happen:

Your solar subsidy gives you money to encourage you to buy solar panels.

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

What did Ohio's subsidy encourage Marathon to do........?

Retain and create jobs per your link, dope.

As far as I can tell, any decent sized company that promised to retain "1,650 jobs and create 100 new jobs

Retain and create jobs per your link

Excellent!!!
It's not a subsidy for oil, it's a subsidy for jobs.
Glad you understand.

To the oil company, dope.

 

[Markle]

Bullshit. It's just another system of the home.
Solar panels are not $70k, liar.
They cost less than your kitchen quote especially twenty or thirty years on from their original install.

The price I cited is for a 75 kWh solar system retro-fitted to a 2,500 sq. ft. late model home in my area of expertise. That was the cost quoted by the owner of the property substantiated with his receipts. It was also confirmed by two, independently licensed real estate appraisers in our area. The system resulted in the owner having a net zero electric costs due to his selling his surplus energy to the local utility company and buying back what he needed at night and other times his solar system did not produce.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

A contractor who builds a new house for another has no legal right after the house is sold.

Typical government overreach...

Spending $20 per month to save $80 to $300 per month sounds pretty good to me.

Where are you getting your numbers from? I'll be the first to admit I'm no calculator wiz, so I went to Lending Tree mortgage calculator to compare your numbers.

According to the mortgage calculator, at the current rate of interest, your extra bill would be about $100.00 a month based on a 30 year mortgage. With a 15 year mortgage, about $150.00 a month. I used the capital of 20K for the calculations since that seems to be the general consensus of what a solar panel system would cost.

LendingTree.com - Compare Lenders

This is the average.

Now, keep in mind, your number is fixed for thirty years. The number I provided will steadily rise over those thirty years.



The Cost of Living in California - SmartAsset

Utilities
Californians pay relatively low utility bills. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Californians consume an average of 562 kWh per month. They pay an average of 16.25 cents/kWh and have an average monthly bill of $91.26. For reference, the most expensive average monthly bill is Hawaii ($187.59) and the cheapest is New Mexico ($77.79). The U.S. average is $114.11.

From YOUR source.

California is a state of extremes. It’s home to some of America’s richest and poorest counties. That means there’s no single cost of living in California. Still, there are some things that apply to locations across the state – like the high income tax.

Your point?