Communist rule in US "inevitable"

[Saigon]

Most of them WERE COMMIES....so he was RIGHT.

Some probably were - but many were not.

In his purges of the State Department he named people who had never even worked for the State Department...that doesn't make any sense to me. He rarely presented any evidence.

His attacks on General Marshall must have bordered on treasonous...I see Truman suggested he was effectively shooting US soldiers in the back. Does anyone think Marshall was a communist?


Convictions are not the issue here - he ruined people simply by accusing them, not by attempting to have them convicted.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Most of them WERE COMMIES....so he was RIGHT.

Some probably were - but many were not.

In his purges of the State Department he named people who had never even worked for the State Department...that doesn't make any sense to me. He rarely presented any evidence.

His attacks on General Marshall must have bordered on treasonous...I see Truman suggested he was effectively shooting US soldiers in the back. Does anyone think Marshall was a communist?


Convictions are not the issue here - he ruined people simply by accusing them, not by attempting to have them convicted.

Like I said the military was a mistake....as for Hollywood, he hit it dead on.....they were commies, RICH commies, a paradox to this day....yet there they were.

 

[Saigon]

Buckeye -

With Hollywood I am sure he was on safer ground, but there always has to be the consideration about both the right to free speech, and about what is good for America.

Did going after people like Charlie Chaplin benefit America in any way?

Was Chaplin's work dangerous?

I don't think so - I think it was just oppressing the right of such people to express themselves.

There is no question that Sean Penn is left wing, but to my mind he is also intelligent and sincere and has something to say. America is stronger with him speakig his mind than it is targetting him.

 

[bripat9643]

WUN -

That is a decent theory - Oswald was a flake. On the other hand, he might also have made a convenient fall guy. We'll never know.

Frank -

You still haven't name a single person unfairly accused by Joe McCarthy

McCarthy presented a case-by-case analysis of his 81 "loyalty risks" employed at the State Department. It is widely accepted that most of McCarthy's cases were selected from the so-called "Lee list", a report that had been compiled three years earlier for the House Appropriations Committee. Led by a former Federal Bureau of Investigation agent named Robert E. Lee, the House investigators had reviewed security clearance documents on State Department employees, and had determined that there were "incidents of inefficiencies"[29] in the security reviews of 108 employees. McCarthy hid the source of his list, stating that he had penetrated the "iron curtain" of State Department secrecy with the aid of "some good, loyal Americans in the State Department".[30] In reciting the information from the Lee list cases, McCarthy consistently exaggerated, representing the hearsay of witnesses as facts and converting phrases such as "inclined towards Communism" to "a Communist".

During the hearings, McCarthy moved on from his original unnamed Lee list cases and used the hearings to make charges against nine specific people: Dorothy Kenyon, Esther Brunauer, Haldore Hanson, Gustavo Durán, Owen Lattimore, Harlow Shapley, Frederick Schuman, John S. Service, and Philip Jessup. Some of them no longer worked for the State Department, or never had; all had previously been the subject of charges of varying worth and validity. Owen Lattimore became a particular focus of McCarthy's, who at one point described him as a "top Russian spy". Throughout the hearings, McCarthy employed colorful rhetoric, but produced no substantial evidence, to support his accusations

Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Venona cables proved Lattimore was a spy, moron. All the people McCarthy called to testify as hostile witnesses were later proven to be spies or members of the communist party.

Your information is out of date.

 

[Politico]

No it's not.

 

[Saigon]

All the people McCarthy called to testify as hostile witnesses were later proven to be spies or members of the communist party.

Actually, no, they weren't - not even close.

However, your desire to constantly re-write history is so well established on this board that facts scarcerly seem to enter your thinking.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

So essentially if you belonged to a labor organization in the 1920s or 1930s before workers' rights in a time when people were getting fucked, you were labeled a communist for the rest of your life. It's essentially like if you ever subscribed to a conservative message board or mailing list at any point in your life, you're automatically a Neo-Con responsible for the downfall for this country. Just more bullshit attempts by the right to try to re-write history in this thread.

 

[Saigon]

So essentially if you belonged to a labor organization in the 1920s or 1930s before workers' rights in a time when people were getting fucked, you were labeled a communist for the rest of your life. It's essentially like if you ever subscribed to a conservative message board or mailing list at any point in your life, you're automatically a Neo-Con responsible for the downfall for this country. Just more bullshit attempts by the right to try to re-write history in this thread.

Exactly that.

Careers were ruined by accusations that in most cases had so little evidence behind them that McCarthy didn't even go through the motions of establishing a case - merely labeling people "known communists" even if the information proided to him made no such claim.

 

[editec]

The man was a drunken bully who took advantage of the RED SCARE that was already underway.

His modern apologists are outright liars just as he was.

 

[there4eyeM]

No one has demonstrated a single positive measure 'Tailgunner' achieved for his constituency. No one has explained all his lying about his war record. His anti-communist harping was just a means to stay elected and on the gravy train, an old tactic of politicians and preachers.

Still no response.

 

[bripat9643]

So essentially if you belonged to a labor organization in the 1920s or 1930s before workers' rights in a time when people were getting fucked, you were labeled a communist for the rest of your life. It's essentially like if you ever subscribed to a conservative message board or mailing list at any point in your life, you're automatically a Neo-Con responsible for the downfall for this country. Just more bullshit attempts by the right to try to re-write history in this thread.

Exactly that.

Careers were ruined by accusations that in most cases had so little evidence behind them that McCarthy didn't even go through the motions of establishing a case - merely labeling people "known communists" even if the information proided to him made no such claim.

Absolute horseshit. The Venona cables and Soviet archives reveal that all persons called before the dock were either soviet agents or members of Soviet front groups, like the National Lawyers guild. They were all guilty.

Take the case of Owen Lattimore, who you claim was "innocent." Lattimore had been Roosevelt’s key advisor on China policy. FBI files released only a few years ago to the public, contained 5,000 pages on Lattimore. The White House had access to these files.

Evidence before the Tydings Commity showed that Lattimore had supported Soviet policy at every turn, even declaring that the Stalin purge trials in Russia, “sound like democracy to me.” With then-Vice President Henry Wallace in Russia, Lattimore compared concentration camps to the Tennessee Valley Authority, and later urged Washington to abandon China to communism and to withdraw from Japan and Korea. FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover, who had fed information to McCarthy, broke with him afterwards, fearing McCarthy would prejudice FBI sources of information for its criminal prosecutions.

Yet. the Tydings Committee claimed there was no evidence against Lattimore.

Lattimore was a filthy scumbag communist traitor, yet you and your ilk defend him.

 

[bripat9643]

No one has demonstrated a single positive measure 'Tailgunner' achieved for his constituency. No one has explained all his lying about his war record. His anti-communist harping was just a means to stay elected and on the gravy train, an old tactic of politicians and preachers.

Still no response.

McCarthy got a lot of commie traitors removed from sensitive government positions. I call that very positive.

 

[bripat9643]

The man was a drunken bully who took advantage of the RED SCARE that was already underway.

His modern apologists are outright liars just as he was.

His enemies were the liars. They were fellow travelers who should have been executed. Communism is something that justified plenty of fear. Anyone who claims otherwise is a moron or a traitor.

 

[bripat9643]

All the people McCarthy called to testify as hostile witnesses were later proven to be spies or members of the communist party.

Actually, no, they weren't - not even close.

However, your desire to constantly re-write history is so well established on this board that facts scarcerly seem to enter your thinking.

Plenty of history needs to be rewritten because it's nothing but a pack of lies composed by scumbags who are enemies of the United States and everything it stands for.

If you ever manage to post an actual fact, I'll let you know.

 

[bripat9643]

Most of them WERE COMMIES....so he was RIGHT.

Some probably were - but many were not.

In his purges of the State Department he named people who had never even worked for the State Department...that doesn't make any sense to me. He rarely presented any evidence.

All the names one the Lee List were people who worked for the State Department, so I don't know who the fuck you think you're talking about.

His attacks on General Marshall must have bordered on treasonous...I see Truman suggested he was effectively shooting US soldiers in the back. Does anyone think Marshall was a communist?

Marshall was an idiot who wanted to give financial aid to Communist countries in Eastern Europe.

Convictions are not the issue here - he ruined people simply by accusing them, not by attempting to have them convicted.

Everyone accused was guilty as charged. The evidence is abundant and virtually irrefutable.

 

[Saigon]

BriPat -

Everyone accused was guilty as charged. The evidence is abundant and virtually irrefutable.

You live in a dreamworld.

In literally dozens of cases - and we can go through the names posted above if you like - no evidence was ever presented, the claims made by McCarthy was contradicted by the information he had been given, and no charges were ever laid.

The accusations were made purely and simply to destroy careers and assume guilt by association.

Plenty of history needs to be rewritten because it's nothing but a pack of lies

Actually, no history is recorded very much as it happens - it is only nutase extremists like you who want to re-write history to make it more conveniant for you to cling to your laughable beliefs that provide any threat to that.

Be honest here - you do not WANT history, you want fiction that presents your extremism as fact.

 

[there4eyeM]

No one has demonstrated a single positive measure 'Tailgunner' achieved for his constituency. No one has explained all his lying about his war record. His anti-communist harping was just a means to stay elected and on the gravy train, an old tactic of politicians and preachers.

Still no response.

McCarthy got a lot of commie traitors removed from sensitive government positions. I call that very positive.

Yeah, sure. And his lies about his military exploits, etc.?

 

[bripat9643]

Still no response.

McCarthy got a lot of commie traitors removed from sensitive government positions. I call that very positive.

Yeah, sure. And his lies about his military exploits, etc.?

What "lies" were those?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

No one questions that soviet agents had penetrated the government agencies of the West, or that the West had their agents in the USSR.

The falsehoods for the McCarthyites arise when they claim American senior leaders were active or willing dupes, and when they defend McCarthyism, and McCarthy rehabilitation.

The nice thing to know is that American education (even the latest standards in the Texas public board of education) still in high school and college tell the true evil of Tail Gunner Joe.

^ A geniune dupe still defending Communism

You are telling that to the guy you are looking at in the mirror, Frank.

McCarthy is dead, communism is dead, your delusions are alive.

Some may believe communism is dead in this country. However - when you have a "Federal Government" that makes a clear [unprecedented] decision to cross the line between them and private business, to place the administration squarely in a position to orchestrate government manufacturing policy THROUGH a private company, in which government officials, not executives or the free market, dictates what products a private company should manufacture in order to chart the course for the business' future...... I'd say that's a HUGE step into that very direction.


Government Forces Out Wagoner at GM - WSJ.com
Obama proposes bumping Chevy Volt subsidy up to $10K | The Daily Caller
President Obama reveals secret Chevy Volt joyride to Jay Leno
Government takes steps to push you into Chevy Volt
Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle [Michigan Capitol Confidential]
At This Price, We Should All Own Chevy Volts - Forbes - Chevy halts production due to excess inventory and lack of sales

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Government Using TARP to Take Over Business

 

[Saigon]

Shakles -

It's good to recognise the different between a temporary bail-out of an industry - and it's nationalisation.

Bailing-out an industry as a short-term means of keeping plants running is patently NOT communism.