Company Dumps Healthcare Plan

[Jarhead]

Words, words, words. There are words coming out of your mouth but they literally don't mean anything. You just talk to hear your own voice.

Translation
You understand that I am correct and that you cannot devise an effective response.

Correct about what? You didn't say anything.

He said You're appealing to popularity; as such, your argument fails.

 

[The Rabbi]

I don't see how a company pool that large could be paying $916 a month per employee. My insurance was $80 pre-Obamacare & 140 after Obamacare. Is the company owner getting a kick-back from the insurance company? That is extortion. If I were working there I would dump that policy & get my own coverage.

It's because the author of this thread made the story up.

Riiight. Go with that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Translation
You understand that I am correct and that you cannot devise an effective response.

Correct about what? You didn't say anything.

He said You're appealing to popularity; as such, your argument fails.

He'll play dumb for a while and then disappear. Always does. Wait until he trots out the "The Rabbi is a racist" gem. He gets pwned every time on that one.

 

[JakeStarkey]

LOL, I'm glad you at least admitted you had no actual point.

M14Shooter simply babbles when he is wrong. Always has. Then says he has won.

Oh I see you two have met before.

M14 like koshergrl and JimBowie and that ilk can't argue any deeper than the second level of analysis, then like the video on how to speak TeaBag, they start shouting nonsense.

 

[RDD_1210]

Translation
You understand that I am correct and that you cannot devise an effective response.

Correct about what? You didn't say anything.

He said You're appealing to popularity; as such, your argument fails.

That doesn't mean anything. Not in this context.

Like I said, he didn't say anything.

 

[RDD_1210]

Correct about what? You didn't say anything.

He said You're appealing to popularity; as such, your argument fails.

He'll play dumb for a while and then disappear. Always does. Wait until he trots out the "The Rabbi is a racist" gem. He gets pwned every time on that one.

Sit down old man, you're out of your league yet again.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Appeal to popularity is often valid: our elections run that way.

 

[RDD_1210]

Appeal to popularity is often valid: our elections run that way.

Right, but the way he used it in response to what I said had no bearing whatsoever. It's like he heard it on TV and then repeated it, despite it not being applicable to the situation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Appeal to popularity is often valid: our elections run that way.

Right, but the way he used it in response to what I said had no bearing whatsoever. It's like he heard it on TV and then repeated it, despite it not being applicable to the situation.

Oh, sure; that person has cognitive obstacles in understanding abstract concepts.

 

[The Rabbi]

He said You're appealing to popularity; as such, your argument fails.

He'll play dumb for a while and then disappear. Always does. Wait until he trots out the "The Rabbi is a racist" gem. He gets pwned every time on that one.

Sit down old man, you're out of your league yet again.

True. Brainless, stupid, ignorant and worthless just wasn't for me. That's why you get your ass pwned every time.

 

[RDD_1210]

He'll play dumb for a while and then disappear. Always does. Wait until he trots out the "The Rabbi is a racist" gem. He gets pwned every time on that one.

Sit down old man, you're out of your league yet again.

True. Brainless, stupid, ignorant and worthless just wasn't for me. That's why you get your ass pwned every time.

LOL, you had to have missed a dose of your meds today. Had to.

 

[JakeStarkey]

He'll play dumb for a while and then disappear. Always does. Wait until he trots out the "The Rabbi is a racist" gem. He gets pwned every time on that one.

Sit down old man, you're out of your league yet again.

True. Brainless, stupid, ignorant and worthless just wasn't for me. That's why you get your ass pwned every time.

ONly a matta time fer The Rab to call you a racist, because he is gettin his ass kicked.

Rab has been off his meds more and more lately.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sit down old man, you're out of your league yet again.

True. Brainless, stupid, ignorant and worthless just wasn't for me. That's why you get your ass pwned every time.

ONly a matta time fer The Rab to call you a racist, because he is gettin his ass kicked.

Rab has been off his meds more and more lately.

I've never called RDD a racist. I've never called you a racist either.
Sorry to see you back. I was hoping your vacation was permanent.

 

[JoeB131]

The US prior to WW2.
Next.
You're such an easy win. Every time. It's that low information/low intelligence thing you've got going.

US Life expectancy in 1930- 59.7 years.
US Life expectancy in 2010- 78.7 years.

Life Expectancy at Birth by Race and Sex, 1930?2010 | Infoplease.com

Got to love that Free Market system we had before World War 2.

Infant Mortality Rate in 1950 - 29.2 per 1000 live births. (I'm sure it was worse before the war.)
Infant Mortality Rate in 2010 - 6.1

Infant Mortality Rates, 1950?2010 | Infoplease.com

You have a funny definition of "Successful".

 

[The Rabbi]

The US prior to WW2.
Next.
You're such an easy win. Every time. It's that low information/low intelligence thing you've got going.

US Life expectancy in 1930- 59.7 years.
US Life expectancy in 2010- 78.7 years.

Life Expectancy at Birth by Race and Sex, 1930?2010 | Infoplease.com

Got to love that Free Market system we had before World War 2.

Infant Mortality Rate in 1950 - 29.2 per 1000 live births. (I'm sure it was worse before the war.)
Infant Mortality Rate in 2010 - 6.1

Infant Mortality Rates, 1950?2010 | Infoplease.com

You have a funny definition of "Successful".

Joe, proving he can't understand math.

 

[Care4all]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Figuring the $4 million spent on healthcare, is actually about $2.6 million net for the company, because tax code gave them a 35% tax break on the $4 million deduction.

-----------------------------------------
to pay each employee $350 a month X 12 Months X 500 employees is $2.1 million, but this would give you a business deduction so you would save 35% in taxes on that as well....so that could net out to $1,365,000....

plus another +/-10% for SS taxes and Medicare taxes on the $2.1 million gross salaries, (plus higher rate in UE fees for avg employee pay being higher...)so, add $210,000 to the $1,365,000, so we are at $1,575,000 for the employer....

PLUS the $1,000,000 in yearly tax assessment penalties, which is NOT tax deductible as a business expense.

soooo thats about $2.575 million a year....

THERE IS NO SAVINGS
to this company in your example

It is about the same amount of money for the owner to try to skirt the situation of paying for employee's health care insurance, WITHOUT giving the employee the benefit of having insurance, without the company's ability to recruit better employees by having the health insurance benefit...

It's a LOSE, LOSE for the employee and the employer...there is no way around that....

and sure, for those of the 500 that are getting paid piss poorly, the exchange could help them, but for most of the employees, in a company that is large enough to have 500 employees, are probably getting paid well enough to not get that much of a subsidy if any at all, and also more than likely, many employees could have a spouse that works and they would have to go on their spouse's plan, and not the exchange with subsidy help...and the spouse's employer is ONLY responsible for making the employee portion affordable, not a family plan...so their employees majorly get dicked with just the $350 gross, that is really $250 net....

And I would have to ask, why would any ETHICAL company, put their employee's health care expense on to the tax payers if it does not save them a dime to do such...if they are going to have to pay the $2.6 million net regardless with a plan like the one you mentioned above?

Makes no sense....

other than intentionally trying to bankrupt us as a Nation....and that is not a laughing matter....

Btw, the penalty for Romneycare was even less for employers in Massachusetts, so there was more incentive for the businesses to just drop it and let their employees get subsidized by the State, but guess what?

They didn't drop employee insurance, coverage actually increased for the number of employers carrying coverage for their employees....

so if a +/-$250 an employee penalty didn't make these businesses jump ship and save the money on health insurance benefits, then why would you think they would jump ship with a $2000 a head penalty?

You're assuming they're paying 35% in taxes.
You're assuming a bunch of stuff. Like you know WTF you're talking about. You don't. That's obvious. Even in your bogus example the company still saves money, plus dumps the time and effort involved in providing one size fits all insurance for 500 people.
As for dumping people on the public exchange, companies respond to the incentives given. Obamacare incentivized doing exactly that. Which is why it will happen all over.

yes, I assumed that a large company that has 500 employees is probably in the 35% tax bracket.

These companies will end up having this bite them in the butt, when the gvt is forced to go to universal health care and charges all of them a separate tax, to pay for it....10 to 1, they will have saved nothing....but they will get what they want, the government to be responsible for all of our health care...without realizing that they too will be included in having to fund it, with extra increased taxes, not tax writes offs as they have it now.

 

[Pheonixops]

awwwww.... $350 to every employee for insurance that costs thousands.

how nice.

thanks for the "story". but good that you want to encourage companies to force us to pay for you freeloaders.... while crying and whining about efforts to get people covered by insurance in a manner they can afford.

typical rightwingnut idiocy.

Didn't see the per month part, did ya?

Also the $350 may not cover ALL the costs monthly, but the other part states the government will gladly take up the slack via subsidies.


Try reading before spewing.

That sounds about right, my wife and I pay 177 bi-monthly for our health insurance plan through Anthem.

 

[Care4all]

awwwww.... $350 to every employee for insurance that costs thousands.

how nice.

thanks for the "story". but good that you want to encourage companies to force us to pay for you freeloaders.... while crying and whining about efforts to get people covered by insurance in a manner they can afford.

typical rightwingnut idiocy.

Didn't see the per month part, did ya?

Also the $350 may not cover ALL the costs monthly, but the other part states the government will gladly take up the slack via subsidies.


Try reading before spewing.

They won't be eligible to go on the Exchange if their spouse works and Health Insurance is available at their employment Marty.

And the spouse's employer is only required by the law to make the employee and employee's insurance alone, to be affordable, which is considered 9.5% of the employee's annual income...but with a family plan, the employer is not responsible or held accountable by the law, to make the coverage for the family affordable or to contribute anything at all for the employee's family.

So, it more than likely, will be much more costly for these employees, on their spouse's plan, and won't cost the gvt a dime in subsidy.

Those whose spouse's don't work, which more than likely are the employees that get paid more and can afford to have a 1 person income for the family, will not get much, if anything in subsidies...and more than likely, will get nothing, because these higher paid people are used to having better insurance plans that cover 80%/20% and those Gold and Platinum policies are not available for people to receive subsidies on...it has to be a silver plan, and silver plans only cover 70% with high out of pockets....(unless you are extremely poor and on the low end of the income scale...)

I think if these kind of actions from a large company that employ's 500 is applauded.... and begins the domino affect, it will come back to bite everyone with health care coverage at their own jobs...

 

[KissMy]

I don't see how a company pool that large could be paying $916 a month per employee. My insurance was $80 pre-Obamacare & 140 after Obamacare. Is the company owner getting a kick-back from the insurance company? That is extortion. If I were working there I would dump that policy & get my own coverage.

You didn't have REAL insurance

In 2004, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums grew 11.2% to $9950 for family coverage, and $3695 for a single person, according to a survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation and Health Research and Education Trust.

Five years later, Kaiser’s 2009 survey found that employer health insurance premiums were $13,375 for a family and $4824 for a single person.

Health insurance costs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,351 this year, up 4 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,565 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2013 Employer Health Benefits Survey.
2013 Employer Health Benefits Survey | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

It is real insurance from Assurant Health with Cigna health services. I just went & dug up my policy & insurance card to get the info correct. My self employed policy I bought in Missouri went up 220% since last year due to Obamacare.

Assurant Health front of card says: PPO Hospital/MD Plan, ER Access Fee $0, Fully Insured GWH-Cigna-PPO. Policy is $2k deductible & $5k Max out of pocket HSA. 100% coverage network, 80% out of network, $2 million lifetime limit each person. RxRelief Pharmacy discount card up to 75% off prescriptions.

It had a 3 year rate lock, the price was $66.50ea/$133couple last year when the wife was 48yrs & I was 45yrs. Now it cost $148ea/$297couple a month. I called them & got it good health re-rated answering underwriter questions down to $267 & they said they could add dental, vision & hearing for an additional $30 a month. Now policy provides preventive cancer screenings & no lifetime limit.

 

[bripat9643]

Existence? lol, As conservatives work to make US 'free' like a 3rd world nation?

Freedom is the last thing they have in third world nations. Those governments have all adopted the policies you favor. Take Venezuela and Cuba, for instance.

lol

What are you 'LOL'ling about? What policy has the Venezuelan government implemented that you oppose?