Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

[Coyote]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

Lone Star...I am your mother's sister's nephew's former roommate

Well then Dark Helmet... what does that make us?

Absolutely nothing Lone Star...which is the exact factual content of this OP that links this loan to Trump .

you mean the op sounds a lot like most of what you guys post about Biden?

It is factual that family owning this business has strong ties to Trump. That's usually enough "fact" for the right.

I expect better from you. You're supposed to be one of the sane ones.

If you're telling me you're no better than the lowest political denominator I'll take you at your word...but that was not my prior position.

That is a fair point. Sometimes the low bar here gets to me and a slap is what I need.

My point here, really, is that this bill was poorly constructed. Everyone - Trump, Dem, and Republican - are influenced by lobbyists and I'm sure that allowed for the loose language in what is defined as a small business. In this area - trying to tighten it and impose greater oversight, the Dems were absolutely right. It's to bad they were unable to get more of what they wanted in that regard. As a result - the real small business' are getting crumbs, if anything at all. The second article I posted (from the same source) is even more damning and doesn't mention Trump.

Happens to me too...I get frustrated by the talking point wars.

Your one of the good ones...when I read your posts I take them under consideration...and you've changed my opinion in the past. You and Care4all Pogo Dr Grump g5000 bodecea sealybobo Seawytch jillian Toro... And a bunch of others... You guys give me an honest insight from the other side.

Trust me...we all need that.

honest insight form that group? other than coyote you just named off a lot of my ignore list. they don't talk issues, they tell you you're wrong. not saying others don't do that but i've likely got those people "ignored" also.

we certainly need honest insight but you won't find honesty from someone who's never been wrong.

Just because they think they're right doesn't mean they aren't being honest. I think I only have Mr Shaman on ignore...he had a posting style that just got on my last nerve.

If you honestly believe what you're saying...and not just regurgitating talking points to score political points..those are the folks I want to hear from...cuz I'm not always right...and we can both be right....from our own perspective.

The only two questions that should be asked in this thread is, were any laws were broken, and is anyone who might have a relationship with Trump a political figure?

.

Why?
Why should we be limited by laws being broke which effectively shuts down conversation about a badly written bill?

 

[Coyote]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

i'd agree we need this type of oversight when handing out money. the issue is - how much and when it is too much and no longer a grant or loan but paying you to do something? i think most agree we need to be helping others. where it falls apart is by how much we should help. unfortunately since this is the government jacking with everyone, they get to pay. only THEY is US.

shake shack was lauded for giving back a $10mil loan. people went nuts. i read the story and saw they only did it *after* securing other funding. but here i'm torn. employment is employment. shake shack employs thousands, self employed, 1. where do you put your focus? this isn't to pick on anyone or say they don't deserve some help - not at all. just saying we have finite resources and not everyone who needs help, unfortunately, is going to get it.

this had to be done quick. i'd only really care *if* it was done TO GIVE his businesses the help and prioritized them over others. but given we've never been through this before, what process do you use to be "fair"? i'm betting pogos testicles there simply isn't a way TO be fair.

now to continue "to be fair" - i'm confident of that bet. its just a general rule to never gamble with your own genitalia.

where i agree with schiff is we need a post mortem. but ONLY IF that is done to learn. in a true "post mortem" there is no blame there is no assignment of responsibility. only where things broke down as a whole and as a whole how to improve and keep it from happening again. here is where i bet slades privates that schiff isn't about to do a true "post mortem" and is all out to attack.

again.

someone should kick him in the nuts.

again. and again. and again. he can put some of pelosis designer ice cream on them when done.

Agreed that an after action review does need to happen.... Each and every detail of the bailouts needs to be over with a fine toothed comb. Preferably by a non partisan entity, but I doubt there is such a thing in the time of President Trump.
It would be interesting to find out why a large part of the pork put into the stimulus was "necessary"
It would be interesting to see if claims of millions going out then went to various democratic campaign contributions.. To me that would be a big no no.
It would be interesting to see which of the companies that received loans really needed them or were they just hedging their collective bets?
Right now, there are so many loan applications filed and going through the process and by all news reports the fund is dry. It'll be interesting to see which small business' survive and which ones don't. I would hope the process to be fair, and the intent may have been for it to be so, but rarely is anything fair when politicians are involved.

Or Republican campaign donations.

How about political donations? Why just worry about the OTHER sides actions?

I have to think that mindset is why we are so dysfunctional.

Dude. I was replying to a post that specified only Democratic campaign donations. If you're going to go off on it, at least try to hit both sides.

Wow! "hit both sides"...That's ironic coming from you.

You would not know.

I've been reading your bullshit for a few years now...

You read? Novel idea that...

 

[MACAULAY]

Everyone is getting distracted by this report detailing SOME of the entities that got loans.

Well guess what, that entire list...as ugly as it is ...totals 250 Million dollars.

What you seem to be missing here is that the program had 349 BILLION in funding available and it's GONE.
'
Where did the remaining 348.75 BILLION go?

That;s the REAL question

_____

Harvard University, with a 40 billion dollar endowment (Savings account) got 9 million, according to the O.P.'s reasoning---well, never mind---there is no reasoning. Yale, with a 30 billion got 7 million.

There's your TRAVESTY.

Yet, the OP thinks she has found real wrongdoing because a small business got a qualifying LEGAL loan under the recently passed law and someone involved in the company knows Don Trump.

SICKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

______

 

[Indeependent]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

i'd agree we need this type of oversight when handing out money. the issue is - how much and when it is too much and no longer a grant or loan but paying you to do something? i think most agree we need to be helping others. where it falls apart is by how much we should help. unfortunately since this is the government jacking with everyone, they get to pay. only THEY is US.

shake shack was lauded for giving back a $10mil loan. people went nuts. i read the story and saw they only did it *after* securing other funding. but here i'm torn. employment is employment. shake shack employs thousands, self employed, 1. where do you put your focus? this isn't to pick on anyone or say they don't deserve some help - not at all. just saying we have finite resources and not everyone who needs help, unfortunately, is going to get it.

this had to be done quick. i'd only really care *if* it was done TO GIVE his businesses the help and prioritized them over others. but given we've never been through this before, what process do you use to be "fair"? i'm betting pogos testicles there simply isn't a way TO be fair.

now to continue "to be fair" - i'm confident of that bet. its just a general rule to never gamble with your own genitalia.

where i agree with schiff is we need a post mortem. but ONLY IF that is done to learn. in a true "post mortem" there is no blame there is no assignment of responsibility. only where things broke down as a whole and as a whole how to improve and keep it from happening again. here is where i bet slades privates that schiff isn't about to do a true "post mortem" and is all out to attack.

again.

someone should kick him in the nuts.

again. and again. and again. he can put some of pelosis designer ice cream on them when done.

Agreed that an after action review does need to happen.... Each and every detail of the bailouts needs to be over with a fine toothed comb. Preferably by a non partisan entity, but I doubt there is such a thing in the time of President Trump.
It would be interesting to find out why a large part of the pork put into the stimulus was "necessary"
It would be interesting to see if claims of millions going out then went to various democratic campaign contributions.. To me that would be a big no no.
It would be interesting to see which of the companies that received loans really needed them or were they just hedging their collective bets?
Right now, there are so many loan applications filed and going through the process and by all news reports the fund is dry. It'll be interesting to see which small business' survive and which ones don't. I would hope the process to be fair, and the intent may have been for it to be so, but rarely is anything fair when politicians are involved.

Or Republican campaign donations.

How about political donations? Why just worry about the OTHER sides actions?

I have to think that mindset is why we are so dysfunctional.

Dude. I was replying to a post that specified only Democratic campaign donations. If you're going to go off on it, at least try to hit both sides.

Wow! "hit both sides"...That's ironic coming from you.

You would not know.

I've been reading your bullshit for a few years now...

You read? Novel idea that...

The fact that you think your brain works normally is scary.
Face it, you're a bleeding heart Liberal who knows no bounds of charity to those who haven't earned it.

 

[Coyote]

You would ask me that..

I think he genuinely loves his family.

So did Reinhard Heydrich

Seriously? Comparing Trump (and I despise him) to a Nazi SS official is dishonest, to say the least.

 

[iceberg]

Trump has ties to huge numbers of people in business. ANd you found one that got money from a program designed to hand out money?


Shocking.

This isn't just some random company that happened to have ties to Trump. It is his Campaign Finance Chair for Illinois, and the man he named as ambassador to Belgium, and the company did more than 100 million dollars of business last year who got 5.5 million by claiming to be a small business. Everything and everybody associated with that obese orange fool turns out to be a scam taking money from people who really deserve it.

Ok, now show that A other big businesses are not doing the same, and the B. Trump or someone close to him had any involvement.


Otherwise, it's a nothing burger.

The fact that big companies were quickly given all the money, leaving none for real small businesses doesn't justify anything. WTF is wrong with you to think that it would?

Oh, so, your dropping the whole, this accusation of Trump and personal corruption and changing the subject to the way that big businesses are so good at playing any system to their own benefit?


Love to talk about that. First, clearly state that you are dropping the whole anti-Trump nonsense.


I don't want you circling back to it, like you Wallys always do.


View attachment 326230

We already know Trump is personally corrupt.

I asked you if you were dropping the claim from tHE op, and that was why you were launching new accusations.


And I posted a comic demonstrating the dishonest tactic of circular debating.


your response was to dodge.


Very telling. Wally. Do you mind if I call you wally?


View attachment 326288

I didn't drop the claim from the OP. It said what it said and I agree with it. But - in MY OP - you know, the part you did not read before your TDS kicked in - I stated:

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Which is the larger issue you choose to ignore in your automatic defense of all things Trump.

And as I said, if you wanted to focus on the way big business abuses all systems, you should have focused on that, instead of letting your obsession with Trump rule you.

Your obsession with defending Trump at all costs is noted in your inability to have read the OP before launching into this.

1. I started skimming the brainless raving of libs, long before Trump.

2. My political support of Trump is actually fairly tepid. I am disappointed in him on a number of fronts, but the attacks you leftards launch are so insane, that you can't know that.

thank you. you simply can't NOT be critical of trump 24x7 and claim objectivity along the way. trump has issues. lots of 'em. but he's getting the job done as best he can w/o help from "the other side". you say that they say BUT OBAMA.

yet you call on obama and they say KEEP FOCUS ON TRUMP THIS ISN'T ABOUT OBAMA!!!

it's a never ending circle of stupid.

We spent 8 years of hyper criticism of Obama. Fact.

See what I mean? You can pull the Obama card, but the right can't cause then it's not about Trump.

And Obama made arguments out of where to piss. Withheld funds to schools who didn't follow along. Saw no issue with female relating guys competing with females, commented on every social situation possible.

Maybe... Just maybe, Obama brought a little of that on himself. Radical change is never met well.

Woah. The right IS pulling the Obama card. And no...he did not comment on it on every social situation possible. That’s hyperbole.

If radical change is never met well, don’t you think that applies to some of Trumps actions?

So. Obama and the left spent 8 years blaming Bush. We keep getting mad for actions done to Obama he did to others as well.

Why?

Which of Trump's actions are as radical as debates on where to pee. Transgenders in the military. Spying on the press and congress?

I'm open to say Trump's policies are just as radical as soon as you name them that are considered as radical as those.

Keep in mind I'm not arguing for or against ANY of these. Not the point. Only that pushing these policies is a radical change from our social issues as usual.

So where is Trump pushing the social boundaries where we've never been before?

 

[OKTexas]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

Gee, nobody saw that coming when the blob fired the watch dog

How could he have fired someone he hadn't appointed yet?

.

 

[iceberg]

You would ask me that..

I think he genuinely loves his family.

So did Reinhard Heydrich

Seriously? Comparing Trump (and I despise him) to a Nazi SS official is dishonest, to say the least.

Bringing those shades of gray back! I've missed those in conversations

 

[Coyote]

Everyone is getting distracted by this report detailing SOME of the entities that got loans.

Well guess what, that entire list...as ugly as it is ...totals 250 Million dollars.

What you seem to be missing here is that the program had 349 BILLION in funding available and it's GONE.
'
Where did the remaining 348.75 BILLION go?

That;s the REAL question

_____

Harvard University, with a 40 billion dollar endowment (Savings account) got 9 million, according to the O.P.'s reasoning---well, never mind---there is no reasoning. Yale, with a 30 billion got 7 million.

There's your TRAVESTY.

Yet, the OP thinks she has found real wrongdoing because a small business got a qualifying LEGAL loan under the recently passed law and someone involved in the company knows Don Trump.

SICKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

______

So here we have another idiot who did not read the OP and instead fixates on his TDS (Trump Defense Syndrom).

So tell us...why did YOU not support stricter oversight of this money?

 

[Coyote]

You would ask me that..

I think he genuinely loves his family.

So did Reinhard Heydrich

Seriously? Comparing Trump (and I despise him) to a Nazi SS official is dishonest, to say the least.

Bringing those shades of gray back! I've missed those in conversations

It is rate in a black and white, unnuanced world.

 

[Coyote]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

Gee, nobody saw that coming when the blob fired the watch dog

How could he have fired someone he hadn't appointed yet?

.

True...he appointed his lawyer instead...how...convenient.

 

[iceberg]

Everyone is getting distracted by this report detailing SOME of the entities that got loans.

Well guess what, that entire list...as ugly as it is ...totals 250 Million dollars.

What you seem to be missing here is that the program had 349 BILLION in funding available and it's GONE.
'
Where did the remaining 348.75 BILLION go?

That;s the REAL question

_____

Harvard University, with a 40 billion dollar endowment (Savings account) got 9 million, according to the O.P.'s reasoning---well, never mind---there is no reasoning. Yale, with a 30 billion got 7 million.

There's your TRAVESTY.

Yet, the OP thinks she has found real wrongdoing because a small business got a qualifying LEGAL loan under the recently passed law and someone involved in the company knows Don Trump.

SICKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

______

So here we have another idiot who did not read the OP and instead fixates on his TDS (Trump Defense Syndrom).

So tell us...why did YOU not support stricter oversight of this money?

Question... When Obama was giving billions to the world to combat global warming, we're you also just as upset at the lack of oversight or accountability involved?

 

[OKTexas]

Trump has ties to huge numbers of people in business. ANd you found one that got money from a program designed to hand out money?


Shocking.

This isn't just some random company that happened to have ties to Trump. It is his Campaign Finance Chair for Illinois, and the man he named as ambassador to Belgium, and the company did more than 100 million dollars of business last year who got 5.5 million by claiming to be a small business. Everything and everybody associated with that obese orange fool turns out to be a scam taking money from people who really deserve it.

A "small business" is defined to be one with under 500 employees. 100 million in revenues wouldn't be unusual for such a company.

Should be.

Based on what, dumbass?

100 million in revenues is not a SMALL BUSINESS

500 employees is considered small business by the SBA, dingbat.

Yes, I know that ass hole. 100 million in receipts is considered a small business too. We both know that is not a small business, no matter what the SBA says. A small business is small.

Revenues don't equate to profits, and the companies customer base has probably dried up in the shut down. It's really easy to tell who has never signed the front of a paycheck.

.

 

[iceberg]

You would ask me that..

I think he genuinely loves his family.

So did Reinhard Heydrich

Seriously? Comparing Trump (and I despise him) to a Nazi SS official is dishonest, to say the least.

Bringing those shades of gray back! I've missed those in conversations

It is rate in a black and white, unnuanced world.

I still want to know Trump's radical policies so I know what we are comparing.

 

[OKTexas]

350 BILLION...with a B...went POOF in 10 days...and no one knows any small businesses that have actually gotten a loan through this program

And oh yea...Trump fired the Inspector General in charge of oversight of this program just days after it passed

He appointed someone and fired them just days after it passed? How'd that work?

.

 

[Coyote]

Trump has ties to huge numbers of people in business. ANd you found one that got money from a program designed to hand out money?


Shocking.

This isn't just some random company that happened to have ties to Trump. It is his Campaign Finance Chair for Illinois, and the man he named as ambassador to Belgium, and the company did more than 100 million dollars of business last year who got 5.5 million by claiming to be a small business. Everything and everybody associated with that obese orange fool turns out to be a scam taking money from people who really deserve it.

Ok, now show that A other big businesses are not doing the same, and the B. Trump or someone close to him had any involvement.


Otherwise, it's a nothing burger.

The fact that big companies were quickly given all the money, leaving none for real small businesses doesn't justify anything. WTF is wrong with you to think that it would?

Oh, so, your dropping the whole, this accusation of Trump and personal corruption and changing the subject to the way that big businesses are so good at playing any system to their own benefit?


Love to talk about that. First, clearly state that you are dropping the whole anti-Trump nonsense.


I don't want you circling back to it, like you Wallys always do.


View attachment 326230

We already know Trump is personally corrupt.

I asked you if you were dropping the claim from tHE op, and that was why you were launching new accusations.


And I posted a comic demonstrating the dishonest tactic of circular debating.


your response was to dodge.


Very telling. Wally. Do you mind if I call you wally?


View attachment 326288

I didn't drop the claim from the OP. It said what it said and I agree with it. But - in MY OP - you know, the part you did not read before your TDS kicked in - I stated:

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Which is the larger issue you choose to ignore in your automatic defense of all things Trump.

And as I said, if you wanted to focus on the way big business abuses all systems, you should have focused on that, instead of letting your obsession with Trump rule you.

Your obsession with defending Trump at all costs is noted in your inability to have read the OP before launching into this.

1. I started skimming the brainless raving of libs, long before Trump.

2. My political support of Trump is actually fairly tepid. I am disappointed in him on a number of fronts, but the attacks you leftards launch are so insane, that you can't know that.

thank you. you simply can't NOT be critical of trump 24x7 and claim objectivity along the way. trump has issues. lots of 'em. but he's getting the job done as best he can w/o help from "the other side". you say that they say BUT OBAMA.

yet you call on obama and they say KEEP FOCUS ON TRUMP THIS ISN'T ABOUT OBAMA!!!

it's a never ending circle of stupid.

We spent 8 years of hyper criticism of Obama. Fact.

See what I mean? You can pull the Obama card, but the right can't cause then it's not about Trump.

And Obama made arguments out of where to piss. Withheld funds to schools who didn't follow along. Saw no issue with female relating guys competing with females, commented on every social situation possible.

Maybe... Just maybe, Obama brought a little of that on himself. Radical change is never met well.

Woah. The right IS pulling the Obama card. And no...he did not comment on it on every social situation possible. That’s hyperbole.

If radical change is never met well, don’t you think that applies to some of Trumps actions?

So. Obama and the left spent 8 years blaming Bush. We keep getting mad for actions done to Obama he did to others as well.

Why?

Which of Trump's actions are as radical as debates on where to pee. Transgenders in the military. Spying on the press and congress?

I'm open to say Trump's policies are just as radical as soon as you name them that are considered as radical as those.

Keep in mind I'm not arguing for or against ANY of these. Not the point. Only that pushing these policies is a radical change from our social issues as usual.

So where is Trump pushing the social boundaries where we've never been before?

This comes down to personal views on what is radical.

100% seperation of children from families at the border.

Working to end abortion rights.

Removing protections from discrimmination in employment, housing etc. for LGBTQ people.

Allowing the importation of murdered elephant parts into the US.

Renigging on international agreements done by the prior administration.

Curtailing or ending the protection of endangered species against established science.

And, most recently, seriously eroding state’s rights.

 

[iceberg]

Trump has ties to huge numbers of people in business. ANd you found one that got money from a program designed to hand out money?


Shocking.

This isn't just some random company that happened to have ties to Trump. It is his Campaign Finance Chair for Illinois, and the man he named as ambassador to Belgium, and the company did more than 100 million dollars of business last year who got 5.5 million by claiming to be a small business. Everything and everybody associated with that obese orange fool turns out to be a scam taking money from people who really deserve it.

Ok, now show that A other big businesses are not doing the same, and the B. Trump or someone close to him had any involvement.


Otherwise, it's a nothing burger.

The fact that big companies were quickly given all the money, leaving none for real small businesses doesn't justify anything. WTF is wrong with you to think that it would?

Oh, so, your dropping the whole, this accusation of Trump and personal corruption and changing the subject to the way that big businesses are so good at playing any system to their own benefit?


Love to talk about that. First, clearly state that you are dropping the whole anti-Trump nonsense.


I don't want you circling back to it, like you Wallys always do.


View attachment 326230

We already know Trump is personally corrupt.

I asked you if you were dropping the claim from tHE op, and that was why you were launching new accusations.


And I posted a comic demonstrating the dishonest tactic of circular debating.


your response was to dodge.


Very telling. Wally. Do you mind if I call you wally?


View attachment 326288

I didn't drop the claim from the OP. It said what it said and I agree with it. But - in MY OP - you know, the part you did not read before your TDS kicked in - I stated:

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Which is the larger issue you choose to ignore in your automatic defense of all things Trump.

And as I said, if you wanted to focus on the way big business abuses all systems, you should have focused on that, instead of letting your obsession with Trump rule you.

Your obsession with defending Trump at all costs is noted in your inability to have read the OP before launching into this.

1. I started skimming the brainless raving of libs, long before Trump.

2. My political support of Trump is actually fairly tepid. I am disappointed in him on a number of fronts, but the attacks you leftards launch are so insane, that you can't know that.

thank you. you simply can't NOT be critical of trump 24x7 and claim objectivity along the way. trump has issues. lots of 'em. but he's getting the job done as best he can w/o help from "the other side". you say that they say BUT OBAMA.

yet you call on obama and they say KEEP FOCUS ON TRUMP THIS ISN'T ABOUT OBAMA!!!

it's a never ending circle of stupid.

We spent 8 years of hyper criticism of Obama. Fact.

See what I mean? You can pull the Obama card, but the right can't cause then it's not about Trump.

And Obama made arguments out of where to piss. Withheld funds to schools who didn't follow along. Saw no issue with female relating guys competing with females, commented on every social situation possible.

Maybe... Just maybe, Obama brought a little of that on himself. Radical change is never met well.

Woah. The right IS pulling the Obama card. And no...he did not comment on it on every social situation possible. That’s hyperbole.

If radical change is never met well, don’t you think that applies to some of Trumps actions?

So. Obama and the left spent 8 years blaming Bush. We keep getting mad for actions done to Obama he did to others as well.

Why?

Which of Trump's actions are as radical as debates on where to pee. Transgenders in the military. Spying on the press and congress?

I'm open to say Trump's policies are just as radical as soon as you name them that are considered as radical as those.

Keep in mind I'm not arguing for or against ANY of these. Not the point. Only that pushing these policies is a radical change from our social issues as usual.

So where is Trump pushing the social boundaries where we've never been before?

This comes down to personal views on what is radical.

100% seperation of children from families at the border.

Working to abortion rights.

Removing protections from discrimmination in employment, housing etc. for LGBTQ people.

Allowing the importation of murdered elephant parts into the US.

Renigging on international agreements done by the prior administration.

Curtailing or ending the protection of endangered species against established science.

And, most recently, seriously eroding state’s rights.

Murdered elephant parts?

With the exception of the unfortunate plight of elephant parts these are not NEW issues but our usual rehash. Not arguing whether or not they are good or bad decisions, only that they are common fare on social stances.

As for separation of families at the border, Obama. He did it too. So at worst Trump is continuing that policy yet he and only he gets blamed for it. And if Trump were doing it, TIME wouldn't need a photo shopped example. But I digress.

But to the point. These are stupid at best but not really social standard changing like what I went through with Obama.

But I do appreciate the examples.

 

[OKTexas]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

Lone Star...I am your mother's sister's nephew's former roommate

Well then Dark Helmet... what does that make us?

Absolutely nothing Lone Star...which is the exact factual content of this OP that links this loan to Trump .

you mean the op sounds a lot like most of what you guys post about Biden?

It is factual that family owning this business has strong ties to Trump. That's usually enough "fact" for the right.

I expect better from you. You're supposed to be one of the sane ones.

If you're telling me you're no better than the lowest political denominator I'll take you at your word...but that was not my prior position.

That is a fair point. Sometimes the low bar here gets to me and a slap is what I need.

My point here, really, is that this bill was poorly constructed. Everyone - Trump, Dem, and Republican - are influenced by lobbyists and I'm sure that allowed for the loose language in what is defined as a small business. In this area - trying to tighten it and impose greater oversight, the Dems were absolutely right. It's to bad they were unable to get more of what they wanted in that regard. As a result - the real small business' are getting crumbs, if anything at all. The second article I posted (from the same source) is even more damning and doesn't mention Trump.

Happens to me too...I get frustrated by the talking point wars.

Your one of the good ones...when I read your posts I take them under consideration...and you've changed my opinion in the past. You and Care4all Pogo Dr Grump g5000 bodecea sealybobo Seawytch jillian Toro... And a bunch of others... You guys give me an honest insight from the other side.

Trust me...we all need that.

honest insight form that group? other than coyote you just named off a lot of my ignore list. they don't talk issues, they tell you you're wrong. not saying others don't do that but i've likely got those people "ignored" also.

we certainly need honest insight but you won't find honesty from someone who's never been wrong.

Just because they think they're right doesn't mean they aren't being honest. I think I only have Mr Shaman on ignore...he had a posting style that just got on my last nerve.

If you honestly believe what you're saying...and not just regurgitating talking points to score political points..those are the folks I want to hear from...cuz I'm not always right...and we can both be right....from our own perspective.

The only two questions that should be asked in this thread is, were any laws were broken, and is anyone who might have a relationship with Trump a political figure?

.

Why?
Why should we be limited by laws being broke which effectively shuts down conversation about a badly written bill?

A badly written bill? Funny I didn't see anything about a badly written bill in your title. I guess that wasn't really the conversation you wanted to have, was it?

.

 

[Coyote]

Trump has ties to huge numbers of people in business. ANd you found one that got money from a program designed to hand out money?


Shocking.

This isn't just some random company that happened to have ties to Trump. It is his Campaign Finance Chair for Illinois, and the man he named as ambassador to Belgium, and the company did more than 100 million dollars of business last year who got 5.5 million by claiming to be a small business. Everything and everybody associated with that obese orange fool turns out to be a scam taking money from people who really deserve it.

Ok, now show that A other big businesses are not doing the same, and the B. Trump or someone close to him had any involvement.


Otherwise, it's a nothing burger.

The fact that big companies were quickly given all the money, leaving none for real small businesses doesn't justify anything. WTF is wrong with you to think that it would?

Oh, so, your dropping the whole, this accusation of Trump and personal corruption and changing the subject to the way that big businesses are so good at playing any system to their own benefit?


Love to talk about that. First, clearly state that you are dropping the whole anti-Trump nonsense.


I don't want you circling back to it, like you Wallys always do.


View attachment 326230

We already know Trump is personally corrupt.

I asked you if you were dropping the claim from tHE op, and that was why you were launching new accusations.


And I posted a comic demonstrating the dishonest tactic of circular debating.


your response was to dodge.


Very telling. Wally. Do you mind if I call you wally?


View attachment 326288

I didn't drop the claim from the OP. It said what it said and I agree with it. But - in MY OP - you know, the part you did not read before your TDS kicked in - I stated:

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Which is the larger issue you choose to ignore in your automatic defense of all things Trump.

And as I said, if you wanted to focus on the way big business abuses all systems, you should have focused on that, instead of letting your obsession with Trump rule you.

Your obsession with defending Trump at all costs is noted in your inability to have read the OP before launching into this.

1. I started skimming the brainless raving of libs, long before Trump.

2. My political support of Trump is actually fairly tepid. I am disappointed in him on a number of fronts, but the attacks you leftards launch are so insane, that you can't know that.

thank you. you simply can't NOT be critical of trump 24x7 and claim objectivity along the way. trump has issues. lots of 'em. but he's getting the job done as best he can w/o help from "the other side". you say that they say BUT OBAMA.

yet you call on obama and they say KEEP FOCUS ON TRUMP THIS ISN'T ABOUT OBAMA!!!

it's a never ending circle of stupid.

We spent 8 years of hyper criticism of Obama. Fact.

See what I mean? You can pull the Obama card, but the right can't cause then it's not about Trump.

And Obama made arguments out of where to piss. Withheld funds to schools who didn't follow along. Saw no issue with female relating guys competing with females, commented on every social situation possible.

Maybe... Just maybe, Obama brought a little of that on himself. Radical change is never met well.

Woah. The right IS pulling the Obama card. And no...he did not comment on it on every social situation possible. That’s hyperbole.

If radical change is never met well, don’t you think that applies to some of Trumps actions?

So. Obama and the left spent 8 years blaming Bush. We keep getting mad for actions done to Obama he did to others as well.

Why?

Which of Trump's actions are as radical as debates on where to pee. Transgenders in the military. Spying on the press and congress?

I'm open to say Trump's policies are just as radical as soon as you name them that are considered as radical as those.

Keep in mind I'm not arguing for or against ANY of these. Not the point. Only that pushing these policies is a radical change from our social issues as usual.

So where is Trump pushing the social boundaries where we've never been before?

This comes down to personal views on what is radical.

100% seperation of children from families at the border.

Working to abortion rights.

Removing protections from discrimmination in employment, housing etc. for LGBTQ people.

Allowing the importation of murdered elephant parts into the US.

Renigging on international agreements done by the prior administration.

Curtailing or ending the protection of endangered species against established science.

And, most recently, seriously eroding state’s rights.

Murdered elephant parts?

With the exception of the unfortunate plight of elephant parts these are not NEW issues but our usual rehash. Not arguing whether or not they are good or bad decisions, only that they are common fare on social stances.

As for separation of families at the border, Obama. He did it too. So at worst Trump is continuing that policy yet he and only he gets blamed for it.

But to the point. These are stupid at best but not really social standard changing like what I went through with Obama.

But I do appreciate the examples.

Actually no. He did not. That is one of the dishonest rightwing claims. Obama did not have a 100% policy of family seperation. He was criticized for being hard on illegal immigration, but one thing his administration tried to do was NOT break up families. This one is entirely on Trump and it is radical.

 

[Coyote]

This is why we need independent oversight for these vast sums of money going out...100 million in sales and still a "small business"....?

Company With Ties To Trump Receives Millions From Small Business Loan Program

Many businesses have struggled to get any money from the Paycheck Protection Program. But a company owned by a prominent Chicago family received a $5.5 million loan.

www.npr.org

While many small businesses have found it difficult or impossible to get one of the Small Business Administration's Paycheck Protection Program loans, a company owned by a prominent Chicago family with close ties to the Trump administration was able to get a $5.5 million loan under the program, according to documents the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday.

U.S. Ambassador to Belgium Ronald Gidwitz, who was appointed in 2018, was then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign finance chair for Illinois in the 2016 presidential campaign. According to filings with the SEC, Gidwitz's family owns the majority of Continental Materials Corp., which secured the 1% interest loan.

Continental Materials makes heating and cooling equipment and construction products. While it had more than $100 million in sales last year, it qualified for the loan because it meets the Small Business Administration's industry-specific "small business" size standards, according to company chief financial officer Paul Ainsworth.

Still, the company's loan is much larger than the typical PPP loan, according to a summary releasedby the Small Business Administration last week. The average loan was just over $200,000, and fewer than 1% of the loans under the program were greater than $5 million.

While the company may qualify as a small business under the PPP program, there are many much smaller businesses that have been unsuccessful in obtaining or even applying for the loans from their banks.

Lone Star...I am your mother's sister's nephew's former roommate

Well then Dark Helmet... what does that make us?

Absolutely nothing Lone Star...which is the exact factual content of this OP that links this loan to Trump .

you mean the op sounds a lot like most of what you guys post about Biden?

It is factual that family owning this business has strong ties to Trump. That's usually enough "fact" for the right.

I expect better from you. You're supposed to be one of the sane ones.

If you're telling me you're no better than the lowest political denominator I'll take you at your word...but that was not my prior position.

That is a fair point. Sometimes the low bar here gets to me and a slap is what I need.

My point here, really, is that this bill was poorly constructed. Everyone - Trump, Dem, and Republican - are influenced by lobbyists and I'm sure that allowed for the loose language in what is defined as a small business. In this area - trying to tighten it and impose greater oversight, the Dems were absolutely right. It's to bad they were unable to get more of what they wanted in that regard. As a result - the real small business' are getting crumbs, if anything at all. The second article I posted (from the same source) is even more damning and doesn't mention Trump.

Happens to me too...I get frustrated by the talking point wars.

Your one of the good ones...when I read your posts I take them under consideration...and you've changed my opinion in the past. You and Care4all Pogo Dr Grump g5000 bodecea sealybobo Seawytch jillian Toro... And a bunch of others... You guys give me an honest insight from the other side.

Trust me...we all need that.

honest insight form that group? other than coyote you just named off a lot of my ignore list. they don't talk issues, they tell you you're wrong. not saying others don't do that but i've likely got those people "ignored" also.

we certainly need honest insight but you won't find honesty from someone who's never been wrong.

Just because they think they're right doesn't mean they aren't being honest. I think I only have Mr Shaman on ignore...he had a posting style that just got on my last nerve.

If you honestly believe what you're saying...and not just regurgitating talking points to score political points..those are the folks I want to hear from...cuz I'm not always right...and we can both be right....from our own perspective.

The only two questions that should be asked in this thread is, were any laws were broken, and is anyone who might have a relationship with Trump a political figure?

.

Why?
Why should we be limited by laws being broke which effectively shuts down conversation about a badly written bill?

A badly written bill? Funny I didn't see anything about a badly written bill in your title. I guess that wasn't really the conversation you wanted to have, was it?

.

Did you read the OP?

Don’t bother to answer. You did not.