Confederate Flag vs. Ground Zero Mosque?

[bigrebnc1775]

At least I serve under the right flag, you wouldn't because you're a flaggot.

Know what you are fiughting for, from what you say I doubt you do.

I thought you Repugs like to sell your party on the fact that it was the party that freed slaves and the party of Lincoln yet Lincoln didn't fight and didn't the support the flaggots under the Confederacy. Dumbass.

Know your history, I doubt you do.

 

[manifold]

The rebel flag is and has always been a symbol of racism and treason.

^Opinion, not fact.

And a severly biased opinion at that.

Therefore taking it for what it's worth yields exactly zero value.

True story

 

[Ravi]

The rebel flag is and has always been a symbol of racism and treason.



Deal.

Which came first the stars and stripes or the Confederate battle flag?

How you view the United States flag is immaterial and doesn't change the facts regarding the rebel flag.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The rebel flag is and has always been a symbol of racism and treason.



Deal.

Which came first the stars and stripes or the Confederate battle flag?

How you view the United States flag is immaterial and doesn't change the facts regarding the rebel flag.

how I view the flag is based on historical facts. How you view it is immaterial and using the views that you have been taught.

 

[Ravi]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

 

[AllieBaba]

Those are "Ravfacts".

Lol..Ravi you know you've been told repeatedly that the history and science threads probably aren't where you want to station yourself...

 

[AllieBaba]

"Ravcts".

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

Wrong on both accounts you would need to study the 19th century to understand just how incorrect you are. Well at least study something that is not public government approved. Like take a trip the the Libary of congress or read a book or two that were written by soldiers during that time. Or even some letter writen during that period of time. Any of those things would help you not look so stupid.

 

[manifold]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

False.

Both opinions, not facts.

And you're welcome to them.

 

[manifold]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

Wrong on both accounts....

Technically she isn't wrong, except when she calls them facts. They are opinions and opinions are subjective and therefore cannot be proven right or wrong.

Ravi gets facts and opinions mixed up all the time.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

Wrong on both accounts....

Technically she isn't wrong, except when she calls them facts. They are opinions and opinions are subjective and therefore cannot be proven right or wrong.

Ravi gets facts and opinions mixed up all the time.

Technically she is. When south Carolina directed the federal troops to leave South Carolina and they did not do that and when Lincoln sent reenforcements to fort Sumter it was an act of war.

And the battle flag is as much a racist symbol as the star and stripes is.

 

[midcan5]

The confederate flag represents a time and an idea whose history has long passed. Humans have moved beyond judging a person by skin color alone. Secession war (civil war) was fought over slavery and the degrading and hurtful treatment of human beings, who should have had equal rights. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...' the confederate flag represents an idea that is contrary to that phrase. AmericanHeritage.com / Why the Civil War Was Fought, Really

The Islamic community center near ground zero is no more significant than a Catholic church near the Oklahoma City bomb site. Religious freedom is granted by our beliefs and our laws, to deny that right is equivalent to deny a person a right simply because of their religious belief. Terrorists may find solace in their religion but they are no less criminal because of that, nor are they representative of their religion.

"Terrorism requires alienated individuals, a complicit community, and a legitimizing ideology motivated by a desire for revenge, renown, and reaction from the enemy." Louise Richardson

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The confederate flag represents a time and an idea whose history has long passed. Humans have moved beyond judging a person by skin color alone. Secession was fought over slavery and the degrading and hurtful treatment of human beings, who should have had equal rights. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...' the confederate flag represents an idea that is contrary to that phrase. AmericanHeritage.com / Why the Civil War Was Fought, Really

The Islamic community center near ground zero is no more significant than a Catholic church near the Oklahoma City bomb site. Religious freedom is granted by our beliefs and our laws, to deny that right is equivalent to deny a person a right simply because of their religion belief. Terrorists may find solace in their religion but they are no less criminal because of that, nor are they representative of their religion.

"Terrorism requires alienated individuals, a complicit community, and a legitimizing ideology motivated by a desire for revenge, renown, and reaction from the enemy." Louise Richardson

Here's some simple reading for simple minds
First, it is surprising the amount of men from both sides in his statistical sampling who fought mirrored similar thoughts. Many fought for their country and considered it an honor to be called to lay their lives down on the altar "of their country". Many on both sides also had the strength of conviction of fighting for a holy cause; others fought simply because their neighbors and friends had joined and did not wish to be seen as being cowards or soft. Still others (in the North) fought to eradicate slavery, while those down South fought in the knowledge they would be supported back home (as did those up North) and at the same time taking "vengeance" on those who "would pollute and desecrate our Southern soil". (I kid you not; if you read some of the letters from Southern soldiers of the early war period, you realize they were in earnest about their convictions.)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3260644

 

[Ravi]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

False.

Both opinions, not facts.

And you're welcome to them.

Why don't you explain to the class what the Civil war was about?

 

[Ravi]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

Wrong on both accounts you would need to study the 19th century to understand just how incorrect you are. Well at least study something that is not public government approved. Like take a trip the the Libary of congress or read a book or two that were written by soldiers during that time. Or even some letter writen during that period of time. Any of those things would help you not look so stupid.

All you need do is read the documents put forth by the founders of the confederacy...they all mention slavery as the ultimate reason for the war.

You can pretend all you want that slavery was a non-issue.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

Wrong on both accounts you would need to study the 19th century to understand just how incorrect you are. Well at least study something that is not public government approved. Like take a trip the the Libary of congress or read a book or two that were written by soldiers during that time. Or even some letter writen during that period of time. Any of those things would help you not look so stupid.

All you need do is read the documents put forth by the founders of the confederacy...they all mention slavery as the ultimate reason for the war.

You can pretend all you want that slavery was a non-issue.

When exactly did I say slavery was a non issue? Not all sates left the union over slavery
South Carolina
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of South Carolina and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by us in convention on the twenty-third day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying amendments of the said Constitution, are hereby repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of the "United States of America," is hereby dissolved.

Done at Charleston the twentieth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty.


Mississippi
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Mississippi and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

The people of the State of Mississippi, in convention assembled, do ordain and declare, and it is hereby ordained and declared, as follows, to wit:

Section 1. That all the laws and ordinances by which the said State of Mississippi became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America be, and the same are hereby, repealed, and that all obligations on the part of the said State or the people thereof to observe the same be withdrawn, and that the said State doth hereby resume all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws or ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the said United States, and is absolved from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred to the said Federal Union, and shall from henceforth be a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Sec. 2. That so much of the first section of the seventh article of the constitution of this State as requires members of the Legislature and all officers, executive and judicial, to take an oath or affirmation to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same is hereby, abrogated and annulled.

Sec. 3. That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed, or treaty made, in pursuance thereof, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Sec. 4. That the people of the State of Mississippi hereby consent to form a federal union with such of the States as may have seceded or may secede from the Union of the United States of America, upon the basis of the present Constitution of the said United States, except such parts thereof as embrace other portions than such seceding States.

Thus ordained and declared in convention the 9th day of January, in the year of our Lord 1861.

North Carolina
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of North Carolina and the other States united with her, under the compact of government entitled "The Constitution of the United States."

We, the people of the State of North Carolina in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by the State of North Carolina in the convention of 1789, whereby the Constitution of the United States was ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly ratifying and adopting amendments to the said Constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded, and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain, That the union now subsisting between the State of North Carolina and the other States, under the title of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of North Carolina is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

Done in convention at the city of Raleigh, this the 20th day of May, in the year of our Lord 1861, and in the eighty-fifth year of the independence of said State.

Tennessee
DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND ORDINANCE dissolving the federal relations between the State of Tennessee and the United States of America.

First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Second. We furthermore declare and ordain that article 10, sections 1 and 2, of the constitution of the State of Tennessee, which requires members of the General Assembly and all officers, civil and military, to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same are hereby, abrogated and annulled, and all parts of the constitution of the State of Tennessee making citizenship of the United States a qualification for office and recognizing the Constitution of the United States as the supreme law of this State are in like manner abrogated and annulled.

Third. We furthermore ordain and declare that all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed in pursuance thereof, or under any laws of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

[sent to referendum 6 May 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on 8 June 1861]

Ordinances of Secession 13 Confederate States of America

Now SHUT THE FUCK UP

 

[bodecea]

Wrong on both accounts....

Technically she isn't wrong, except when she calls them facts. They are opinions and opinions are subjective and therefore cannot be proven right or wrong.

Ravi gets facts and opinions mixed up all the time.

Technically she is. When south Carolina directed the federal troops to leave South Carolina and they did not do that and when Lincoln sent reenforcements to fort Sumter it was an act of war.

And the battle flag is as much a racist symbol as the star and stripes is.

No it wasn't. The Fort was Federal property...period. Not their fault the South was a bunch of thieves.

 

[manifold]

Fact: The southern states declared war on the United States because they wanted to keep enslaving blacks.

Fact: The southern states' battle flag is now and always has been a symbol of racism and treason.

False.

Both opinions, not facts.

And you're welcome to them.

Why don't you explain to the class what the Civil war was about?

You seem to already be pretty set in your own opinions, I really don't think you'd have much use for mine.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Technically she isn't wrong, except when she calls them facts. They are opinions and opinions are subjective and therefore cannot be proven right or wrong.

Ravi gets facts and opinions mixed up all the time.

Technically she is. When south Carolina directed the federal troops to leave South Carolina and they did not do that and when Lincoln sent reenforcements to fort Sumter it was an act of war.

And the battle flag is as much a racist symbol as the star and stripes is.

No it wasn't. The Fort was Federal property...period. Not their fault the South was a bunch of thieves.

Your viewing the 19th century through the eyes of a 21st century person. South Carolina and all states view themselves as a sovereign nation so the Federal government did not own any property within a state .

 

[rdean]

Actually...wrong.

Confederate soldiers did not announce, nor did their leaders announce their intention, nor did they attempt, to slaughter Union women and children.

In fact, it was the UNION army that starved out (i.e., killed) Confederacy women and children by ransacking the farms and blockading the ports, resulting in the starvation of who knows how many southern women and children. They were also great at starving Confederate prisoners.

Still, nobody announced any intention to kill off the women & children of the other side.

So they aren't the same.

I'm sure the South was as kind to Union Soldiers as they were to their slaves.

Besides, the Republican Confederate Party is 90% white. Do they really care if they offend a bunch of blacks. If they did, would they send stuff like this out at "fundraisers".