Confedrate history about race?

[paperview]

Still at it, huh Kev?

I try to stop myself, but I can't.

I can understand that.

 

[paperview]

Damn. I finally get to page 4 and see the topic of the picture was covered.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

It's amazing how most people forget or are simply ignorant about the negroes that had also fought and died for the Southern cause.

I only got about 60 posts in after this first post on the thread...I needed to read to see if anyone had corrected you on this --

I didn't see it...(but if this has been mentioned yet, forgive me...)

UH, DUDE - That picture is a forgery.

---------------
Retouching History:

The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph

Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr. [1]



Introduction

“In the past decade,” the Yale historian David Blight has recently written, “the neo-Confederate fringe of Civil War enthusiasm . . . has contended that thousands of African Americans, slave and free, willingly joined the Confederate war effort as soldiers and fought for their ‘homeland’ . . . . Slaves’ fidelity to their masters’ cause - - a falsehood constructed to support claims that the war was not about slavery - - has long formed one of the staple arguments in Lost Cause ideology.” [2]

In this paper we discuss a graphic example of Blight’s contention by examining a Civil War-era posed studio photograph of black Union soldiers with a white officer. We maintain that this photograph has been deliberately falsified in recent years by an unknown person/s sympathetic to the Confederacy.

This falsified or fabricated photo, purporting to be of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards (Confederate), has been taken to promote Neo-Confederate views, to accuse Union propagandists of duplicity, and to show that black soldiers were involved in the armed defense of the Confederacy.

As of the date of this website this photograph is being sold on the web by an on-line retailer, www.rebelstore.com, which promotes itself as “The Internet’s Original Rebel Store,” and advertises this photograph as a legitimate photo of “Members of the first all Black Confederate Unit organized in New Orleans in 1861.” [3]
The Photograph:


See more here:Retouching History
University of Virginia
--------------------
"The South did not use this Confederate Native Guard regiment in any military action, and failed to provide it with uniforms or arms. Most of the men in the unit used their own resources to obtain weapons and uniforms which were displayed in a parade in New Orleans on January 8, 1862.

It was largely considered part of the Confederacy's "public relations" campaign."

Looks like the old Reb public relations are still working. Or trying to anyway.

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

 

[bodecea]

You have it backward. South Carolina had nothing to say about federal property. To fire on it under any situation was treason. End of story on that. Yes, Lincoln knew that the South would fire, and he told the nation that only under the South would war come to the Union. He was right, the South was wrong, and he murdered it for its treasonous conduct. America has been blessed a million times over because of Lincoln and has avoided a million tribulations because the South was sent to hell.

And the colonies were "property" of Great Britain, and to declare independence and fire on the Crown under any situation was treason. Right?

Yes it was...and the Founders would have been hung as traitors....IF....we had lost.

 

[bodecea]

The southern states in relation to the Union were in no way in relationship of the colonies to Great Britain. What a silly insinuation. A simple statement, no evidence, no facts, other than the assertion.

Utterly absured.

You're right. The southern states had a much greater claim to the right of secession than did the colonies.

If they had won, I'm sure the history books in the Southern Nation would agree with you. History justification is relative....or as they say, History is written by the victors.

 

[bodecea]

It's amazing how most people forget or are simply ignorant about the negroes that had also fought and died for the Southern cause.

I only got about 60 posts in after this first post on the thread...I needed to read to see if anyone had corrected you on this --

I didn't see it...(but if this has been mentioned yet, forgive me...)

UH, DUDE - That picture is a forgery.

---------------
Retouching History:

The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph

Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr. [1]



Introduction

“In the past decade,” the Yale historian David Blight has recently written, “the neo-Confederate fringe of Civil War enthusiasm . . . has contended that thousands of African Americans, slave and free, willingly joined the Confederate war effort as soldiers and fought for their ‘homeland’ . . . . Slaves’ fidelity to their masters’ cause - - a falsehood constructed to support claims that the war was not about slavery - - has long formed one of the staple arguments in Lost Cause ideology.” [2]

In this paper we discuss a graphic example of Blight’s contention by examining a Civil War-era posed studio photograph of black Union soldiers with a white officer. We maintain that this photograph has been deliberately falsified in recent years by an unknown person/s sympathetic to the Confederacy.

This falsified or fabricated photo, purporting to be of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards (Confederate), has been taken to promote Neo-Confederate views, to accuse Union propagandists of duplicity, and to show that black soldiers were involved in the armed defense of the Confederacy.

As of the date of this website this photograph is being sold on the web by an on-line retailer, www.rebelstore.com, which promotes itself as “The Internet’s Original Rebel Store,” and advertises this photograph as a legitimate photo of “Members of the first all Black Confederate Unit organized in New Orleans in 1861.” [3]
The Photograph:


See more here:Retouching History
University of Virginia
--------------------
"The South did not use this Confederate Native Guard regiment in any military action, and failed to provide it with uniforms or arms. Most of the men in the unit used their own resources to obtain weapons and uniforms which were displayed in a parade in New Orleans on January 8, 1862.

It was largely considered part of the Confederacy's "public relations" campaign."

Looks like the old Reb public relations are still working. Or trying to anyway.

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Yeah...all FIVE of them.

 

[paperview]

It's amazing how most people forget or are simply ignorant about the negroes that had also fought and died for the Southern cause.

I only got about 60 posts in after this first post on the thread...I needed to read to see if anyone had corrected you on this --

I didn't see it...(but if this has been mentioned yet, forgive me...)

UH, DUDE - That picture is a forgery.

---------------
Retouching History:

The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph

Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr. [1]



Introduction

“In the past decade,” the Yale historian David Blight has recently written, “the neo-Confederate fringe of Civil War enthusiasm . . . has contended that thousands of African Americans, slave and free, willingly joined the Confederate war effort as soldiers and fought for their ‘homeland’ . . . . Slaves’ fidelity to their masters’ cause - - a falsehood constructed to support claims that the war was not about slavery - - has long formed one of the staple arguments in Lost Cause ideology.” [2]

In this paper we discuss a graphic example of Blight’s contention by examining a Civil War-era posed studio photograph of black Union soldiers with a white officer. We maintain that this photograph has been deliberately falsified in recent years by an unknown person/s sympathetic to the Confederacy.

This falsified or fabricated photo, purporting to be of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards (Confederate), has been taken to promote Neo-Confederate views, to accuse Union propagandists of duplicity, and to show that black soldiers were involved in the armed defense of the Confederacy.

As of the date of this website this photograph is being sold on the web by an on-line retailer, www.rebelstore.com, which promotes itself as “The Internet’s Original Rebel Store,” and advertises this photograph as a legitimate photo of “Members of the first all Black Confederate Unit organized in New Orleans in 1861.” [3]
The Photograph:


See more here:Retouching History
University of Virginia
--------------------
"The South did not use this Confederate Native Guard regiment in any military action, and failed to provide it with uniforms or arms. Most of the men in the unit used their own resources to obtain weapons and uniforms which were displayed in a parade in New Orleans on January 8, 1862.

It was largely considered part of the Confederacy's "public relations" campaign."

Looks like the old Reb public relations are still working. Or trying to anyway.

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Deal with this fact:

It was against the Confederate Constitution to allow slaves to be soldiers.

==========
Vol. 6 House of Representatives.
Enlistment in the U.S. Army
1. 89-90 Feb. 10, 1863
Whereas information has reached this [CSA] congress of the passage by the Congress at Washington, District of Columbia, of a bill for the enlistment of negroes as soldiers in the armies of the United States, which armies are to be engaged in prosecuting the further invasion of the Confederate States of America;

and
Whereas the constitutions, both of the Confederate States and the United States recognize Africans and their descendants as property; and
Whereas we can not consent to any change in their political status and condition:


Therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee of the Judiciary be instructed to inquire into the expediency of bring in a bill providing the proper forms for the disposition of all negroes or mulattoes who may be captured from the enemy in such manner that those of them who are fugitives from their masters may be restored to their right followers and those whom no masters can be found shall be sold into perpetual bondage for the purpose of raising a fund to reimburse citizens of this Confederacy who have lost their slave property by reason of the interference there with that of the enemy:
Which was read and agreed to:
2. 129 Feb. 21, 1863
"Mr. Colliers also offered the following resolution, viz.:
'Whereas the Congress of the United States has by law authorized the raising of negro troops, to be used in the present war in the attempted subjugation of the Confederate States: therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary inquire into the expediency of providing by law that all negroes captured while so in the service of the United States shall, ipso facto, unless they be fugitive slaves, become the property of the captors, and shall thereafter be held and considered in all respects as slaves:'
Which was read and agreed to."



The Rebellion record: a diary of ... - Google Books

 

[paperview]

Confederate States of America - House of Rep. - May 1, 1863 - “to employ negroes in war against the Confederate States” as “inconsistent with the spirit of those usages which in modern warfare prevail among civilized nations,”

History of the Negro race in America ... - Google Books

 

[paperview]

Confederate Veteran, June 1915 - “If there were any such troops [black Confederates] enlisted, there is no official record of same”

a) “The whole Black Confederate soldier thing is bogus” - Ludwell Johnson of the Museum of the Confederacy

b) “It’s B.S., wishful thinking.” - Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus, NPS

c) “They were never mustered into the Confederate Army,” – James Hollandsworth, Associate Provost at the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg.

d) “It’s mostly moonshine They’ve taken a core of true information and ballooned it all out of proportion.” - James McPherson, Princeton professor emeritus and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War history Battle Cry of Freedom. -

g) “Of course If I documented 12 [black Confederates out of 150,000 CSA soldiers researched] someone would start adding zeros,” - Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy

h) Ervin Jordan Jr. - a black archivist and assistant professor from the University of Virginia. In Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia, were he proved there were black confederates, he admits that he hasn’t uncovered tens of thousands of black Confederates in wartime Virginia - in fact, he’s found barely a fraction of that.

i) “There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile, it was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side.” - Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. - Mobile Register, August 23, 1998

j) “Many thousands of Jews did slave labor in military production factories in Nazi Germany - but that certainly didn’t make them “thousands of Jewish soldiers fighting for Germany.”” Truman R. Clark, professor of history, Tomball College. - The Houston Chronicle, Aug 29, 1999

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I only got about 60 posts in after this first post on the thread...I needed to read to see if anyone had corrected you on this --

I didn't see it...(but if this has been mentioned yet, forgive me...)

UH, DUDE - That picture is a forgery.

---------------
Retouching History:

The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph

Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr. [1]



Introduction

“In the past decade,” the Yale historian David Blight has recently written, “the neo-Confederate fringe of Civil War enthusiasm . . . has contended that thousands of African Americans, slave and free, willingly joined the Confederate war effort as soldiers and fought for their ‘homeland’ . . . . Slaves’ fidelity to their masters’ cause - - a falsehood constructed to support claims that the war was not about slavery - - has long formed one of the staple arguments in Lost Cause ideology.” [2]

In this paper we discuss a graphic example of Blight’s contention by examining a Civil War-era posed studio photograph of black Union soldiers with a white officer. We maintain that this photograph has been deliberately falsified in recent years by an unknown person/s sympathetic to the Confederacy.

This falsified or fabricated photo, purporting to be of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards (Confederate), has been taken to promote Neo-Confederate views, to accuse Union propagandists of duplicity, and to show that black soldiers were involved in the armed defense of the Confederacy.

As of the date of this website this photograph is being sold on the web by an on-line retailer, www.rebelstore.com, which promotes itself as “The Internet’s Original Rebel Store,” and advertises this photograph as a legitimate photo of “Members of the first all Black Confederate Unit organized in New Orleans in 1861.” [3]
The Photograph:


See more here:Retouching History
University of Virginia
--------------------
"The South did not use this Confederate Native Guard regiment in any military action, and failed to provide it with uniforms or arms. Most of the men in the unit used their own resources to obtain weapons and uniforms which were displayed in a parade in New Orleans on January 8, 1862.

It was largely considered part of the Confederacy's "public relations" campaign."

Looks like the old Reb public relations are still working. Or trying to anyway.

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Deal with this fact:

It was against the Confederate Constitution to allow slaves to be soldiers.

==========
Vol. 6 House of Representatives.
Enlistment in the U.S. Army
1. 89-90 Feb. 10, 1863
Whereas information has reached this [CSA] congress of the passage by the Congress at Washington, District of Columbia, of a bill for the enlistment of negroes as soldiers in the armies of the United States, which armies are to be engaged in prosecuting the further invasion of the Confederate States of America;

and
Whereas the constitutions, both of the Confederate States and the United States recognize Africans and their descendants as property; and
Whereas we can not consent to any change in their political status and condition:


Therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee of the Judiciary be instructed to inquire into the expediency of bring in a bill providing the proper forms for the disposition of all negroes or mulattoes who may be captured from the enemy in such manner that those of them who are fugitives from their masters may be restored to their right followers and those whom no masters can be found shall be sold into perpetual bondage for the purpose of raising a fund to reimburse citizens of this Confederacy who have lost their slave property by reason of the interference there with that of the enemy:
Which was read and agreed to:
2. 129 Feb. 21, 1863
"Mr. Colliers also offered the following resolution, viz.:
'Whereas the Congress of the United States has by law authorized the raising of negro troops, to be used in the present war in the attempted subjugation of the Confederate States: therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary inquire into the expediency of providing by law that all negroes captured while so in the service of the United States shall, ipso facto, unless they be fugitive slaves, become the property of the captors, and shall thereafter be held and considered in all respects as slaves:'
Which was read and agreed to."



The Rebellion record: a diary of ... - Google Books

I never made the distinction between slaves or free blacks. I simply stated accurately that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Black Southerners fought alongside white, Hispanic, Indian, Jewish and thousands of foreign-born Southerners. They fought as documented by Union sources:

Frederick Douglass, Douglass' Monthly, IV [Sept. 1861,] pp 516 - "there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army - as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government...There were such soldiers at Manassas and they are probably there still."

"Negroes in the Confederate Army," Journal of Negro History, Charles Wesle, Vol. 4, #3, [1919,] 244-245 - "Seventy free blacks enlisted in the Confederate Army in Lynchburg, Virginia. Sixteen companies of free men of color marched through Augusta, Georgia on their way to fight in Virginia." "The part of Adams' Brigade that the 42nd Indiana was facing were the 'Louisiana Tigers.' This name was given to Colonel Gibson's 13th Louisiana Infantry, which included five companies of 'Avegno Zouaves' who still were wearing their once dashing traditional blue jackets, red caps and red baggy trousers. These five Zouaves companies were made up of Irish, Dutch, Negroes, Spaniards, Mexicans, and Italians."

Noe, Kenneth W., Perryville: This Grand Havoc of Battle. The University of Kentucky Press, Lexington, KY, 2001. [page 270] From James G. Bates' letter to his father reprinted in the 1 May 1863 "Winchester [Indiana] Journal" [the 13th IVI ["Hoosier Regiment"] was involved in operations around the Suffolk, Virginia area in April-May 1863 ] - "I can assure you [Father,] of a certainty, that the rebels have negro soldiers in their army. One of their best sharp shooters, and the boldest of them all here is a negro. He dug himself a rifle pit last night [16 April 1863] just across the river and has been annoying our pickets opposite him very much to-day. You can see him plain enough with the naked eye, occasionally, to make sure that he is a "wooly-head," and with a spy-glass there is no mistaking him."

The 85th Indiana Volunteer Infantry reported to the Indianapolis Daily Evening Gazette that on 5 March 1863: "During the fight the [artillery] battery in charge of the 85th Indiana [Volunteer Infantry] was attacked by [*in italics*] two rebel negro regiments. [*end italics*]." After the action at Missionary Ridge, Commissary Sergeant William F. Ruby forwarded a casualty list written in camp at Ringgold, Georgia about 29 November 1863, to William S. Lingle for publication. Ruby's letter was partially reprinted in the Lafayette Daily Courier for 8 December 1863: "Ruby says among the rebel dead on the [Missionary] Ridge he saw a number of negroes in the Confederate uniform." Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805: "There were also quite a number of negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

Federal Official Records Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138: "Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements."

Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XLIX, Part II, pg. 253 - April 6, 1865: "The rebels [Forrest] are recruiting negro troops at Enterprise, Miss., and the negroes are all enrolled in the State."
Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XIV, pg. 24, second paragraph - "It is also difficult to state the force of the enemy, but it could not have been less than from 600 to 800. There were six companies of mounted riflemen, besides infantry, among which were a considerable number of colored men." - referring to Confederate forces opposing him at Pocotaligo, SC., Colonel B. C. Christ, 50th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, official report of May 30, 1862 "Sargt said war is close to being over. saw several negros fighting for those rebels."

From the diary of James Miles, 185th N.Y.V.I., entry dated January 8, 1865 Black Southerners also demonstrated loyalties based not on ownership, subservience or fear. The Confederate Burial Mound for Camp Morton, Indiana, at Indianapolis, Indiana, has bronze tablets which list the nearly 1200 Confederates who died at that camp. Among those names are 26 Black Southerners, seven Hispanic Southerners and six Indiaan Southerners. At a time when those Black Southerners could have walked into the Camp Commander's office, taken a short oath and signed their name to walk out the gates free men obliged to no one they chose instead to stay even unto death. Your understanding of that choice is likely nonexistent.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Confederate States of America - House of Rep. - May 1, 1863 - “to employ negroes in war against the Confederate States” as “inconsistent with the spirit of those usages which in modern warfare prevail among civilized nations,”

History of the Negro race in America ... - Google Books

You do understand this was in regards to captured negro soldiers of the Confederacy or those abducted from the Confederate states and that there were not to compel these negroes to fight against the Confederacy or to overthrow the institution of slavery.

 

[HUGGY]

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Deal with this fact:

It was against the Confederate Constitution to allow slaves to be soldiers.

==========
Vol. 6 House of Representatives.
Enlistment in the U.S. Army
1. 89-90 Feb. 10, 1863
Whereas information has reached this [CSA] congress of the passage by the Congress at Washington, District of Columbia, of a bill for the enlistment of negroes as soldiers in the armies of the United States, which armies are to be engaged in prosecuting the further invasion of the Confederate States of America;

and
Whereas the constitutions, both of the Confederate States and the United States recognize Africans and their descendants as property; and
Whereas we can not consent to any change in their political status and condition:


Therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee of the Judiciary be instructed to inquire into the expediency of bring in a bill providing the proper forms for the disposition of all negroes or mulattoes who may be captured from the enemy in such manner that those of them who are fugitives from their masters may be restored to their right followers and those whom no masters can be found shall be sold into perpetual bondage for the purpose of raising a fund to reimburse citizens of this Confederacy who have lost their slave property by reason of the interference there with that of the enemy:
Which was read and agreed to:
2. 129 Feb. 21, 1863
"Mr. Colliers also offered the following resolution, viz.:
'Whereas the Congress of the United States has by law authorized the raising of negro troops, to be used in the present war in the attempted subjugation of the Confederate States: therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary inquire into the expediency of providing by law that all negroes captured while so in the service of the United States shall, ipso facto, unless they be fugitive slaves, become the property of the captors, and shall thereafter be held and considered in all respects as slaves:'
Which was read and agreed to."



The Rebellion record: a diary of ... - Google Books

I never made the distinction between slaves or free blacks. I simply stated accurately that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Black Southerners fought alongside white, Hispanic, Indian, Jewish and thousands of foreign-born Southerners. They fought as documented by Union sources:

Frederick Douglass, Douglass' Monthly, IV [Sept. 1861,] pp 516 - "there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army - as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government...There were such soldiers at Manassas and they are probably there still."

"Negroes in the Confederate Army," Journal of Negro History, Charles Wesle, Vol. 4, #3, [1919,] 244-245 - "Seventy free blacks enlisted in the Confederate Army in Lynchburg, Virginia. Sixteen companies of free men of color marched through Augusta, Georgia on their way to fight in Virginia." "The part of Adams' Brigade that the 42nd Indiana was facing were the 'Louisiana Tigers.' This name was given to Colonel Gibson's 13th Louisiana Infantry, which included five companies of 'Avegno Zouaves' who still were wearing their once dashing traditional blue jackets, red caps and red baggy trousers. These five Zouaves companies were made up of Irish, Dutch, Negroes, Spaniards, Mexicans, and Italians."

Noe, Kenneth W., Perryville: This Grand Havoc of Battle. The University of Kentucky Press, Lexington, KY, 2001. [page 270] From James G. Bates' letter to his father reprinted in the 1 May 1863 "Winchester [Indiana] Journal" [the 13th IVI ["Hoosier Regiment"] was involved in operations around the Suffolk, Virginia area in April-May 1863 ] - "I can assure you [Father,] of a certainty, that the rebels have negro soldiers in their army. One of their best sharp shooters, and the boldest of them all here is a negro. He dug himself a rifle pit last night [16 April 1863] just across the river and has been annoying our pickets opposite him very much to-day. You can see him plain enough with the naked eye, occasionally, to make sure that he is a "wooly-head," and with a spy-glass there is no mistaking him."

The 85th Indiana Volunteer Infantry reported to the Indianapolis Daily Evening Gazette that on 5 March 1863: "During the fight the [artillery] battery in charge of the 85th Indiana [Volunteer Infantry] was attacked by [*in italics*] two rebel negro regiments. [*end italics*]." After the action at Missionary Ridge, Commissary Sergeant William F. Ruby forwarded a casualty list written in camp at Ringgold, Georgia about 29 November 1863, to William S. Lingle for publication. Ruby's letter was partially reprinted in the Lafayette Daily Courier for 8 December 1863: "Ruby says among the rebel dead on the [Missionary] Ridge he saw a number of negroes in the Confederate uniform." Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805: "There were also quite a number of negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

Federal Official Records Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138: "Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements."

Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XLIX, Part II, pg. 253 - April 6, 1865: "The rebels [Forrest] are recruiting negro troops at Enterprise, Miss., and the negroes are all enrolled in the State."
Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XIV, pg. 24, second paragraph - "It is also difficult to state the force of the enemy, but it could not have been less than from 600 to 800. There were six companies of mounted riflemen, besides infantry, among which were a considerable number of colored men." - referring to Confederate forces opposing him at Pocotaligo, SC., Colonel B. C. Christ, 50th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, official report of May 30, 1862 "Sargt said war is close to being over. saw several negros fighting for those rebels."

From the diary of James Miles, 185th N.Y.V.I., entry dated January 8, 1865 Black Southerners also demonstrated loyalties based not on ownership, subservience or fear. The Confederate Burial Mound for Camp Morton, Indiana, at Indianapolis, Indiana, has bronze tablets which list the nearly 1200 Confederates who died at that camp. Among those names are 26 Black Southerners, seven Hispanic Southerners and six Indiaan Southerners. At a time when those Black Southerners could have walked into the Camp Commander's office, taken a short oath and signed their name to walk out the gates free men obliged to no one they chose instead to stay even unto death. Your understanding of that choice is likely nonexistent.

I saw two black guys fighting last night. Do you suppose they were still battling the civil war like you are?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Confederate Veteran, June 1915 - “If there were any such troops [black Confederates] enlisted, there is no official record of same”

a) “The whole Black Confederate soldier thing is bogus” - Ludwell Johnson of the Museum of the Confederacy

b) “It’s B.S., wishful thinking.” - Edwin Bearss, historian emeritus, NPS

c) “They were never mustered into the Confederate Army,” – James Hollandsworth, Associate Provost at the University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg.

d) “It’s mostly moonshine They’ve taken a core of true information and ballooned it all out of proportion.” - James McPherson, Princeton professor emeritus and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War history Battle Cry of Freedom. -

g) “Of course If I documented 12 [black Confederates out of 150,000 CSA soldiers researched] someone would start adding zeros,” - Robert Krick, author of 10 books on the Confederacy

h) Ervin Jordan Jr. - a black archivist and assistant professor from the University of Virginia. In Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia, were he proved there were black confederates, he admits that he hasn’t uncovered tens of thousands of black Confederates in wartime Virginia - in fact, he’s found barely a fraction of that.

i) “There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile, it was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side.” - Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. - Mobile Register, August 23, 1998

j) “Many thousands of Jews did slave labor in military production factories in Nazi Germany - but that certainly didn’t make them “thousands of Jewish soldiers fighting for Germany.”” Truman R. Clark, professor of history, Tomball College. - The Houston Chronicle, Aug 29, 1999

I cited union sources, eyewitness accounts that claim negroes were in fact fighting for the Confederacy. One of the eyewitnesses is Fredrick Douglass. So pardon me if I take eyewitness accounts over a few historians.

EDIT:

One more thing. if in fact it's your claim that negroes did not fight for the south, then why would you introduce an article that dealt with captured negro soldiers?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Deal with this fact:

It was against the Confederate Constitution to allow slaves to be soldiers.

==========
Vol. 6 House of Representatives.
Enlistment in the U.S. Army
1. 89-90 Feb. 10, 1863
Whereas information has reached this [CSA] congress of the passage by the Congress at Washington, District of Columbia, of a bill for the enlistment of negroes as soldiers in the armies of the United States, which armies are to be engaged in prosecuting the further invasion of the Confederate States of America;

and
Whereas the constitutions, both of the Confederate States and the United States recognize Africans and their descendants as property; and
Whereas we can not consent to any change in their political status and condition:


Therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee of the Judiciary be instructed to inquire into the expediency of bring in a bill providing the proper forms for the disposition of all negroes or mulattoes who may be captured from the enemy in such manner that those of them who are fugitives from their masters may be restored to their right followers and those whom no masters can be found shall be sold into perpetual bondage for the purpose of raising a fund to reimburse citizens of this Confederacy who have lost their slave property by reason of the interference there with that of the enemy:
Which was read and agreed to:
2. 129 Feb. 21, 1863
"Mr. Colliers also offered the following resolution, viz.:
'Whereas the Congress of the United States has by law authorized the raising of negro troops, to be used in the present war in the attempted subjugation of the Confederate States: therefore,
Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary inquire into the expediency of providing by law that all negroes captured while so in the service of the United States shall, ipso facto, unless they be fugitive slaves, become the property of the captors, and shall thereafter be held and considered in all respects as slaves:'
Which was read and agreed to."



The Rebellion record: a diary of ... - Google Books

I never made the distinction between slaves or free blacks. I simply stated accurately that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

Black Southerners fought alongside white, Hispanic, Indian, Jewish and thousands of foreign-born Southerners. They fought as documented by Union sources:

Frederick Douglass, Douglass' Monthly, IV [Sept. 1861,] pp 516 - "there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate Army - as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government...There were such soldiers at Manassas and they are probably there still."

"Negroes in the Confederate Army," Journal of Negro History, Charles Wesle, Vol. 4, #3, [1919,] 244-245 - "Seventy free blacks enlisted in the Confederate Army in Lynchburg, Virginia. Sixteen companies of free men of color marched through Augusta, Georgia on their way to fight in Virginia." "The part of Adams' Brigade that the 42nd Indiana was facing were the 'Louisiana Tigers.' This name was given to Colonel Gibson's 13th Louisiana Infantry, which included five companies of 'Avegno Zouaves' who still were wearing their once dashing traditional blue jackets, red caps and red baggy trousers. These five Zouaves companies were made up of Irish, Dutch, Negroes, Spaniards, Mexicans, and Italians."

Noe, Kenneth W., Perryville: This Grand Havoc of Battle. The University of Kentucky Press, Lexington, KY, 2001. [page 270] From James G. Bates' letter to his father reprinted in the 1 May 1863 "Winchester [Indiana] Journal" [the 13th IVI ["Hoosier Regiment"] was involved in operations around the Suffolk, Virginia area in April-May 1863 ] - "I can assure you [Father,] of a certainty, that the rebels have negro soldiers in their army. One of their best sharp shooters, and the boldest of them all here is a negro. He dug himself a rifle pit last night [16 April 1863] just across the river and has been annoying our pickets opposite him very much to-day. You can see him plain enough with the naked eye, occasionally, to make sure that he is a "wooly-head," and with a spy-glass there is no mistaking him."

The 85th Indiana Volunteer Infantry reported to the Indianapolis Daily Evening Gazette that on 5 March 1863: "During the fight the [artillery] battery in charge of the 85th Indiana [Volunteer Infantry] was attacked by [*in italics*] two rebel negro regiments. [*end italics*]." After the action at Missionary Ridge, Commissary Sergeant William F. Ruby forwarded a casualty list written in camp at Ringgold, Georgia about 29 November 1863, to William S. Lingle for publication. Ruby's letter was partially reprinted in the Lafayette Daily Courier for 8 December 1863: "Ruby says among the rebel dead on the [Missionary] Ridge he saw a number of negroes in the Confederate uniform." Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805: "There were also quite a number of negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

Federal Official Records Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138: "Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements."

Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XLIX, Part II, pg. 253 - April 6, 1865: "The rebels [Forrest] are recruiting negro troops at Enterprise, Miss., and the negroes are all enrolled in the State."
Federal Official Records, Series I, Vol. XIV, pg. 24, second paragraph - "It is also difficult to state the force of the enemy, but it could not have been less than from 600 to 800. There were six companies of mounted riflemen, besides infantry, among which were a considerable number of colored men." - referring to Confederate forces opposing him at Pocotaligo, SC., Colonel B. C. Christ, 50th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, official report of May 30, 1862 "Sargt said war is close to being over. saw several negros fighting for those rebels."

From the diary of James Miles, 185th N.Y.V.I., entry dated January 8, 1865 Black Southerners also demonstrated loyalties based not on ownership, subservience or fear. The Confederate Burial Mound for Camp Morton, Indiana, at Indianapolis, Indiana, has bronze tablets which list the nearly 1200 Confederates who died at that camp. Among those names are 26 Black Southerners, seven Hispanic Southerners and six Indiaan Southerners. At a time when those Black Southerners could have walked into the Camp Commander's office, taken a short oath and signed their name to walk out the gates free men obliged to no one they chose instead to stay even unto death. Your understanding of that choice is likely nonexistent.

I saw two black guys fighting last night. Do you suppose they were still battling the civil war like you are?

Battling the Civil War? Are you that stupid? This is a discussion on whether or not blacks fought for the southern cause. So either contribute to the discussion or shut the fuck up.

 

[uscitizen]

And the colonies were "property" of Great Britain, and to declare independence and fire on the Crown under any situation was treason. Right?

Yep, The minute men were enemy combatants they had no nation did they?
And the tea Partiers were terrorists, even disguising themselves as indians.
Kinda like dressing up as muslims now and doing something similiar.
Conservatives were by definition loyal to the crown.
Progressives were by definition for forming the USA.

There were no Progressives. It was the liberals that supported independence, though that would be classical liberals by today's definitions.

Yes I conceed that point.

 

[uscitizen]

One little known fact is that all blacks in the south were not slaves. Maybe 10% were freed.
they had virtually no rights but were not slaves.

 

[Againsheila]

It's amazing how most people forget or are simply ignorant about the negroes that had also fought and died for the Southern cause.

I only got about 60 posts in after this first post on the thread...I needed to read to see if anyone had corrected you on this --

I didn't see it...(but if this has been mentioned yet, forgive me...)

UH, DUDE - That picture is a forgery.

---------------
Retouching History:

The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph

Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr. [1]



Introduction

“In the past decade,” the Yale historian David Blight has recently written, “the neo-Confederate fringe of Civil War enthusiasm . . . has contended that thousands of African Americans, slave and free, willingly joined the Confederate war effort as soldiers and fought for their ‘homeland’ . . . . Slaves’ fidelity to their masters’ cause - - a falsehood constructed to support claims that the war was not about slavery - - has long formed one of the staple arguments in Lost Cause ideology.” [2]

In this paper we discuss a graphic example of Blight’s contention by examining a Civil War-era posed studio photograph of black Union soldiers with a white officer. We maintain that this photograph has been deliberately falsified in recent years by an unknown person/s sympathetic to the Confederacy.

This falsified or fabricated photo, purporting to be of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards (Confederate), has been taken to promote Neo-Confederate views, to accuse Union propagandists of duplicity, and to show that black soldiers were involved in the armed defense of the Confederacy.

As of the date of this website this photograph is being sold on the web by an on-line retailer, www.rebelstore.com, which promotes itself as “The Internet’s Original Rebel Store,” and advertises this photograph as a legitimate photo of “Members of the first all Black Confederate Unit organized in New Orleans in 1861.” [3]
The Photograph:


See more here:Retouching History
University of Virginia
--------------------
"The South did not use this Confederate Native Guard regiment in any military action, and failed to provide it with uniforms or arms. Most of the men in the unit used their own resources to obtain weapons and uniforms which were displayed in a parade in New Orleans on January 8, 1862.

It was largely considered part of the Confederacy's "public relations" campaign."

Looks like the old Reb public relations are still working. Or trying to anyway.

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

It also fails to take into account that most of the men fighting for the confederacy also had handmade uniforms and their own weapons.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I only got about 60 posts in after this first post on the thread...I needed to read to see if anyone had corrected you on this --

I didn't see it...(but if this has been mentioned yet, forgive me...)

UH, DUDE - That picture is a forgery.

---------------
Retouching History:

The Modern Falsification of a Civil War Photograph

Jerome S. Handler and Michael L. Tuite, Jr. [1]



Introduction

“In the past decade,” the Yale historian David Blight has recently written, “the neo-Confederate fringe of Civil War enthusiasm . . . has contended that thousands of African Americans, slave and free, willingly joined the Confederate war effort as soldiers and fought for their ‘homeland’ . . . . Slaves’ fidelity to their masters’ cause - - a falsehood constructed to support claims that the war was not about slavery - - has long formed one of the staple arguments in Lost Cause ideology.” [2]

In this paper we discuss a graphic example of Blight’s contention by examining a Civil War-era posed studio photograph of black Union soldiers with a white officer. We maintain that this photograph has been deliberately falsified in recent years by an unknown person/s sympathetic to the Confederacy.

This falsified or fabricated photo, purporting to be of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards (Confederate), has been taken to promote Neo-Confederate views, to accuse Union propagandists of duplicity, and to show that black soldiers were involved in the armed defense of the Confederacy.

As of the date of this website this photograph is being sold on the web by an on-line retailer, www.rebelstore.com, which promotes itself as “The Internet’s Original Rebel Store,” and advertises this photograph as a legitimate photo of “Members of the first all Black Confederate Unit organized in New Orleans in 1861.” [3]
The Photograph:


See more here:Retouching History
University of Virginia
--------------------
"The South did not use this Confederate Native Guard regiment in any military action, and failed to provide it with uniforms or arms. Most of the men in the unit used their own resources to obtain weapons and uniforms which were displayed in a parade in New Orleans on January 8, 1862.

It was largely considered part of the Confederacy's "public relations" campaign."

Looks like the old Reb public relations are still working. Or trying to anyway.

Forgery or not, it still doesn't take away the fact that blacks fought for the Confederate cause.

It also fails to take into account that most of the men fighting for the confederacy also had handmade uniforms and their own weapons.

I don't understand why it's so hard to face the fact that blacks fought for the south. These people obviously don't have any knowledge about that part of history. Here in the County I live in our Commissioners just passed a resolution making April Confederate History and Heritage Month, since April marked the month that Texas joined the Confederate States. There was a little fuss about it at first, but most here realize that at the time 98 percent of Texans were not slave holders and that the Civil War wasn't about slavery as much as it was about States rights. I've included a copy of the resolution.

 

[bodecea]

One little known fact is that all blacks in the south were not slaves. Maybe 10% were freed.
they had virtually no rights but were not slaves.

They didn't have many rights in the North either...and thanks to Dred Scott and Roger Taney, they weren't even considered citizens.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

One little known fact is that all blacks in the south were not slaves. Maybe 10% were freed.
they had virtually no rights but were not slaves.

They didn't have many rights in the North either...and thanks to Dred Scott and Roger Taney, they weren't even considered citizens.

Can you elaborate on how these two contributed to themselves not being considered citizens.