Conservatives and Libertarians need to be allies

[Contumacious]

Well, Obama's campaign staff deserves some credit. It is not easy for an African American who was not born in the United states, who is also a gay Muslum Communist and Socialist, who pals around with terrorists and ministers who hate America, and who has had almost no political experience, and faked his college records, to get elected over the richest man ever to run for the White House who is white, and religious! Personally, I think that J.C. Penny, which is going bankrupt, should hire Obama's staff!

Anyone can get elected if they promise to share US Treasury funds with them. If they are willing to make the voting booth an ATM machine.

.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

that kind of thinking got us 4 more years of the kenyan. Happy?

Oh, did it? So it's my fault your party put up the giant turd sandwich to compete with the douche milkshake?

I think not, fella. it makes absolutely no difference to me which version of corporatism was going to run the show. None. If we're voting for turd sandwich or douche milkshake, I'll go ahead and skip dinner altogether.

Except you can't. You're going to get served one or the other. You should at least choose which one you can stomach the best until you have a better choice.

Yes, those of you who will still vote for a turd sandwich or a douche milkshake will, of course, want me to sit at teh table and share in your grotesque meal. My only true freedom in this is being able to stand on my principles. Statists will force me to eat the same turd sammich they ordered for everyone, but I get the smug satisfaction of knowing that i did NOT choose that at all. You have to force it on me.

 

[freedombecki]

Rabbi likes these threads because it allows him to play into his paranoid delusions about someone, or some group hating Jews. He fucking thrives off it like blacks over slavery today.

TakeAStepBack, I recommend a book to you entitled "All Too Human" by George Stephanopoulos if there is still a copy available. It contains some information you might appreciate.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'll pass. Thanks.

 

[Pete7469]

Repubs have very little to offer that they haven't offered before- lower taxes, deregulate, & police women's vaginas to satisfy the evangelical base (thatnos & The Rabbi). Indies & Undecideds aren't buying what your selling. Been there, done that, and got ..... errr...... rather lost the shirt off of our backs

Dems have very little to offer that they haven't offered before. See Detroit today and you see a long term Dem controlled US.

Dems have continued to offer failed "progressive" policies for 120 years now, and escalated them in severity. I think you can look at Mogadishu and see what the ultimate long term results are.

 

[kaz]

The people who don't take me seriously are the sort of people I wouldn't want taking me seriously in the first place. As for your use of the word "people," that implies plural, as in more than one. Who exactly has given you license to speak for them?

He speaks for me, I don't take you seriously. You provide lots of assertions as to what would work, but you put nothing behind them and your answer to any and all questions about what ... you ... are proposing is you're not omniscient, so you can't answer any questions at all about how what you propose would or even could work.

How's your purge of Rothbard, Hoppe, and Block from the libertarian ranks going? Got any converts?

We covered this. Your stating who've you've read isn't an answer to what you believe. I realize it's not a direct contradiction because you are against government and they are not government, but it's still a hoot that an anarchist would need to tell you to read a book so you know what they believe because they can't describe it themselves.

 

[Pete7469]

Oh, did it? So it's my fault your party put up the giant turd sandwich to compete with the douche milkshake?

I think not, fella. it makes absolutely no difference to me which version of corporatism was going to run the show. None. If we're voting for turd sandwich or douche milkshake, I'll go ahead and skip dinner altogether.

Except you can't. You're going to get served one or the other. You should at least choose which one you can stomach the best until you have a better choice.

Yes, those of you who will still vote for a turd sandwich or a douche milkshake will, of course, want me to sit at teh table and share in your grotesque meal. My only true freedom in this is being able to stand on my principles. Statists will force me to eat the same turd sammich they ordered for everyone, but I get the smug satisfaction of knowing that i did NOT choose that at all. You have to force it on me.

Would you at least be willing to help demand better cuisine from inside the resturant? No one can hear you when you're outside at the trash can looking for real food and mumbling to yourself.

 

[Edgetho]

Oh, did it? So it's my fault your party put up the giant turd sandwich to compete with the douche milkshake?

I think not, fella. it makes absolutely no difference to me which version of corporatism was going to run the show. None. If we're voting for turd sandwich or douche milkshake, I'll go ahead and skip dinner altogether.

Except you can't. You're going to get served one or the other. You should at least choose which one you can stomach the best until you have a better choice.

Yes, those of you who will still vote for a turd sandwich or a douche milkshake will, of course, want me to sit at teh table and share in your grotesque meal. My only true freedom in this is being able to stand on my principles. Statists will force me to eat the same turd sammich they ordered for everyone, but I get the smug satisfaction of knowing that i did NOT choose that at all. You have to force it on me.

You can either be for a certain form of government and support it.....

Or someone will form a government whether you like it or not and force it on you.

You can take part in the process or you can sit back casting stones at those who would do you no harm.

Or you can stand idly by and watch those who would do you harm take power.

Enough senseless platitudes from me.

I get really tired of people who want to spout off about how both parties are e-vul and need to be changed.

What a load of shit. Just stay home and shut the fuck up if that's all you got because you ain't never gonna change anything. All you're gonna do is make people mad.

And there's no such thing as an independent. They're just dimocraps who don't have the guts to admit it.

Been there, done that, sold the T-Shirt.

before the election I had a bunch people tell me how "Independent" they were.

Every one of them ended up voting for the Stuttering Clusterfukk and none of them can tell me why.

Someone up thread said that the most important thing is to get the totally and completely disgusting dimocrap party out of power.

Once we do that, we can argue about who, what, when, where, how much, if any, etc.

But the dimocrap party is the enemy of this Country and those who love Freedom.

Whether you fancy yourself a Libertarian, a Conservative or a simple Patriot... the dimocrap party is your enemy.

Republicans may not be your 'friend'. They may not go out of their way to kiss your ass. But they're not your enemy either and will just leave you alone.

dimocraps? They are pure evil. They aim to destroy anything and everything that disagrees with their statist goals.

Think that's hyperbole?

Think again. You know I'm right

Republicans are the party of 'live and let live'. dimocraps are what they are, statist scum two steps removed from Hitler and Stalin and one step removed from Chavez

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Except you can't. You're going to get served one or the other. You should at least choose which one you can stomach the best until you have a better choice.

Yes, those of you who will still vote for a turd sandwich or a douche milkshake will, of course, want me to sit at teh table and share in your grotesque meal. My only true freedom in this is being able to stand on my principles. Statists will force me to eat the same turd sammich they ordered for everyone, but I get the smug satisfaction of knowing that i did NOT choose that at all. You have to force it on me.

Would you at least be willing to help demand better cuisine from inside the resturant? No one can hear you when you're outside at the trash can looking for real food and mumbling to yourself.

I'm not into the whole demanding thing. I'm happy to try and persuade folks to flex a brain cell at election time. Been at that for over 20 years now and it's only gotten worse. Eventually one must resign quietly to the fact that people are much more interested in superficial bullshit (like a smooth talking, handsome guy that will later buttfuck you with a broom stick and break it off) than dig into the issues adn who they are really voting to represent them.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

He speaks for me, I don't take you seriously. You provide lots of assertions as to what would work, but you put nothing behind them and your answer to any and all questions about what ... you ... are proposing is you're not omniscient, so you can't answer any questions at all about how what you propose would or even could work.

How's your purge of Rothbard, Hoppe, and Block from the libertarian ranks going? Got any converts?

We covered this. Your stating who've you've read isn't an answer to what you believe. I realize it's not a direct contradiction because you are against government and they are not government, but it's still a hoot that an anarchist would need to tell you to read a book so you know what they believe because they can't describe it themselves.

No, actually, we haven't. You always run away from this logical implication of your position. If anarchists are not libertarians then you are attempting to purge the libertarian movement of some of its most important thinkers: Rothbard, Hoppe, and Block. Not to mention the so-called "tory anarchists," Mencken, Nock, and Chodorov.

The real hoot here is that you, who have admittedly not read much, if anything, on anarchism, would have the temerity to pronounce that anarchists have no solutions. That I linked you to several books on the subject was merely to prove that you were obviously incorrect. Furthermore, it seems strange that a self-professed libertarian would balk at somebody who refuses to claim some level of omniscience and ability to centrally plan a market economy. Auberon Herbert foresaw your arguments a long time ago.

"If government half a century ago had provided us with all our dinners and breakfasts, it would be the practice of our orators today to assume the impossibility of our providing for ourselves."

So here is what I see, and you may correct me on the facts if I have them wrong: You are a self-professed libertarian, who voted for Mitt Romney, who believes that it is entirely possible to know exactly how the market would react in a given situation (central planning), and has vociferous opinions on anarchism without ever actually having read anything on the subject.

 

[Pete7469]

Even for those of you who are all bent out of shape about the Republicrat's stance on abortion, which I don't totally reject, there's no way in hell they'll ever have the ability to overturn Roe V Wade.

Ain't gonna happen. They can pass restrictions at the state level, but no state could pass a complete ban. Most states couldn't get a restriction through.

That's an issue that is so insignificant though.

We're BROKE. The republicrats helped of course, but the democrooks set the stage. Defeat the democrooks, roll back their insane spending and then we can fight about everything else. The tea party republicrats rode a wave in 2010 with the promise of controlling spending. Get involved and add to that voice, make it louder this time and the democrooks will get their asses handed to them.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Except you can't. You're going to get served one or the other. You should at least choose which one you can stomach the best until you have a better choice.

Yes, those of you who will still vote for a turd sandwich or a douche milkshake will, of course, want me to sit at teh table and share in your grotesque meal. My only true freedom in this is being able to stand on my principles. Statists will force me to eat the same turd sammich they ordered for everyone, but I get the smug satisfaction of knowing that i did NOT choose that at all. You have to force it on me.

You can either be for a certain form of government and support it.....

Or someone will form a government whether you like it or not and force it on you.

You can take part in the process or you can sit back casting stones at those who would do you no harm.

Or you can stand idly by and watch those who would do you harm take power.

Enough senseless platitudes from me.

I get really tired of people who want to spout off about how both parties are e-vul and need to be changed.

What a load of shit. Just stay home and shut the fuck up if that's all you got because you ain't never gonna change anything. All you're gonna do is make people mad.

And there's no such thing as an independent. They're just dimocraps who don't have the guts to admit it.

Been there, done that, sold the T-Shirt.

before the election I had a bunch people tell me how "Independent" they were.

Every one of them ended up voting for the Stuttering Clusterfukk and none of them can tell me why.

Someone up thread said that the most important thing is to get the totally and completely disgusting dimocrap party out of power.

Once we do that, we can argue about who, what, when, where, how much, if any, etc.

But the dimocrap party is the enemy of this Country and those who love Freedom.

Whether you fancy yourself a Libertarian, a Conservative or a simple Patriot... the dimocrap party is your enemy.

Republicans may not be your 'friend'. They may not go out of their way to kiss your ass. But they're not your enemy either and will just leave you alone.

dimocraps? They are pure evil. They aim to destroy anything and everything that disagrees with their statist goals.

Think that's hyperbole?

Think again. You know I'm right

Republicans are the party of 'live and let live'. dimocraps are what they are, statist scum two steps removed from Hitler and Stalin and one step removed from Chavez

Yes, republicans have really gone out of their way to leave us alone...by attempting to pass any and all legislation regulating what you do in your bedroom, or in the doctors office, or in school, or what i can put in my body, etc...they leave me alone so good they (along with the other side of the same coin) have drove the country into trillions of dollars of debt, maimed and murdered millions in nation building and a host of other wonderful "live and let live" ideals we all hold dear.

 

[Pete7469]

Yes, those of you who will still vote for a turd sandwich or a douche milkshake will, of course, want me to sit at teh table and share in your grotesque meal. My only true freedom in this is being able to stand on my principles. Statists will force me to eat the same turd sammich they ordered for everyone, but I get the smug satisfaction of knowing that i did NOT choose that at all. You have to force it on me.

Would you at least be willing to help demand better cuisine from inside the resturant? No one can hear you when you're outside at the trash can looking for real food and mumbling to yourself.

I'm not into the whole demanding thing. I'm happy to try and persuade folks to flex a brain cell at election time. Been at that for over 20 years now and it's only gotten worse. Eventually one must resign quietly to the fact that people are much more interested in superficial bullshit (like a smooth talking, handsome guy that will later buttfuck you with a broom stick and break it off) than dig into the issues adn who they are really voting to represent them.

I hope you help again this time around. However even if the guy the republicrats nominate in your area isn't a Ron Paul zealot, or whatever you think is the perfect candidate, at least give them the benefit of the doubt if they promote a sound fiscal policy.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Even for those of you who are all bent out of shape about the Republicrat's stance on abortion, which I don't totally reject, there's no way in hell they'll ever have the ability to overturn Roe V Wade.

Ain't gonna happen. They can pass restrictions at the state level, but no state could pass a complete ban. Most states couldn't get a restriction through.

That's an issue that is so insignificant though.

We're BROKE. The republicrats helped of course, but the democrooks set the stage. Defeat the democrooks, roll back their insane spending and then we can fight about everything else. The tea party republicrats rode a wave in 2010 with the promise of controlling spending. Get involved and add to that voice, make it louder this time and the democrooks will get their asses handed to them.

Rollback? C'mon, dude. When is the last time Republicans have gotten controla dn rolled back on their powers. Or their spending for that matter? Are you simply trying to insult us into submission now?

IF your republicans had more substance than the bullshit they spew, you may have a point. But they dont. They talk abotu limited government and then turn around and created another homeland spy agency. Or some othe rbloated agency that sucks funds and infrgines upon our liberties.

Half the reason the GOP is in the toilet now is because even conservatives see that these puss sores are only full of wind. They ACT just like progressive dems once given the key to the coffer. No one is fooled by that shit any more.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

"Conservatives" (whatever the fuck that's suppsed to mean anymore) need to knock it off with the Wilsonian international warmongering and nation building, "war on terror" nonsense, drug war thuggery and general police state bullshit to have a prayer of attracting libertarians.

Then they need to quit campaigning like fiscal libertarians and governing like socialists.

IOW, they don't have a prayer.

You mean stop all the hypocrisy? Oh, I totally agree!

 

[Pete7469]

Even for those of you who are all bent out of shape about the Republicrat's stance on abortion, which I don't totally reject, there's no way in hell they'll ever have the ability to overturn Roe V Wade.

Ain't gonna happen. They can pass restrictions at the state level, but no state could pass a complete ban. Most states couldn't get a restriction through.

That's an issue that is so insignificant though.

We're BROKE. The republicrats helped of course, but the democrooks set the stage. Defeat the democrooks, roll back their insane spending and then we can fight about everything else. The tea party republicrats rode a wave in 2010 with the promise of controlling spending. Get involved and add to that voice, make it louder this time and the democrooks will get their asses handed to them.

Rollback? C'mon, dude. When is the last time Republicans have gotten controla dn rolled back on their powers. Or their spending for that matter? Are you simply trying to insult us into submission now?

IF your republicans had more substance than the bullshit they spew, you may have a point. But they dont. They talk abotu limited government and then turn around and created another homeland spy agency. Or some othe rbloated agency that sucks funds and infrgines upon our liberties.

Half the reason the GOP is in the toilet now is because even conservatives see that these puss sores are only full of wind. They ACT just like progressive dems once given the key to the coffer. No one is fooled by that shit any more.

I agree with your frustration, I was pissed off about it too. They had the bull by the horns from 2002-2006 and nothing was rolled back, reversed, or even slowed down. It's partly because people got complacent. The economy was roaring, the democrooks seemed powerless, and ammo was CHEAP. So the republicrats acted like democrooks and handed out money. Conservatives got pissed, and didn't show up to vote again till 2010.

Since 2010 however all we've heard is about the conflict within the GOP. People who think more like you and I, and many libertarians at least on ficsal issues have dragged the GOP kicking and screaming in a better direction.

Ron Paul helped encourage actual pandering by some in the GOP for libertarian votes. There were calls for getting rid of the entire tax system, huge agencies, and EVERYONE wanted to repeal obozocare. If they're pandering to you, they're at least hearing you.

 

[kaz]

How's your purge of Rothbard, Hoppe, and Block from the libertarian ranks going? Got any converts?

We covered this. Your stating who've you've read isn't an answer to what you believe. I realize it's not a direct contradiction because you are against government and they are not government, but it's still a hoot that an anarchist would need to tell you to read a book so you know what they believe because they can't describe it themselves.

No, actually, we haven't. You always run away from this logical implication of your position. If anarchists are not libertarians then you are attempting to purge the libertarian movement of some of its most important thinkers: Rothbard, Hoppe, and Block. Not to mention the so-called "tory anarchists," Mencken, Nock, and Chodorov.

The real hoot here is that you, who have admittedly not read much, if anything, on anarchism, would have the temerity to pronounce that anarchists have no solutions. That I linked you to several books on the subject was merely to prove that you were obviously incorrect. Furthermore, it seems strange that a self-professed libertarian would balk at somebody who refuses to claim some level of omniscience and ability to centrally plan a market economy. Auberon Herbert foresaw your arguments a long time ago.

"If government half a century ago had provided us with all our dinners and breakfasts, it would be the practice of our orators today to assume the impossibility of our providing for ourselves."

So here is what I see, and you may correct me on the facts if I have them wrong: You are a self-professed libertarian

True

who voted for Mitt Romney

Technically true, actually I voted against Obama when he showed that in his 2008 campaign he wasn't lying when he said he was a Marxist. I hadn't voted Republican since 1988, so voting for the lesser evil isn't my thing. Voting for true evil does get me there.

who believes that it is entirely possible to know exactly how the market would react in a given situation (central planning)

Nope, this is how you deflect when I try to engage you in discussion on your system. You say you're not omniscient so you can't answer any questions at all about how things would work other than generalizations like that if someone killed your family and ran you'd put a contract out on them as if the assassin you hired knew or cared the person had actually killed your family. That anarchy would be chaos, as I stated.

who believes that it is entirely possible to know and has vociferous opinions on anarchism without ever actually having read anything on the subject.

Nope. I said I haven't read as much as I have on other ideologies. I've apparently read a lot more than you have because I've read a lot. And my statements on anarchy in my discussions with you were based on your description of anarchy. That you want to keep deflecting and tell me to read a book is still deflection.

 

[Contumacious]

Republicans are the party of 'live and let live'. dimocraps are what they are, statist scum two steps removed from Hitler and Stalin and one step removed from Chavez

Hummmmmmmmmmm

Isn't you party the one that believes in "peaceful wars"?

.

 

[kaz]

So Kevin, maybe once you could address a situation with some content. You move into a mostly unpopulated valley. You claim about 50 acres of land. You farm half, have some you use for your home. The rest you keep as woods where you have a trail for walks and to get water from a stream a few hundred yards from your home. You and your neighbors live peacefully.

One day a group of people move in the valley and build a church. They're good people, leave you alone, you're fine. But the church keeps building and they need more and more land. Eventually they are at your border. Then in their quest for land they start cutting down your woods saying your home and farm land is yours, but the woods aren't. Then you can't get to the stream and they start charging you for access to water. Your neighbors build closer to the stream and keep to themselves.

Then the church starts to put out maps stating where farms are. They post at their buildings the process for claiming land and disputing people from taking yours, but you don't belong to their church and you don't want to be bothered with it.

They're good people, but they are following process and you're not. They're going to let you fight for your land through their system, but you lose they will enforce their decisions with guns, and they at this point have hundreds of armed people keeping their laws. Your 50 acres is down to 25 and shrinking.

I say you're shit out of luck, your anarchy lead to exactly what I said it would. Any contribution to this other than you're not omniscient or that you're going to hire hit men?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Even for those of you who are all bent out of shape about the Republicrat's stance on abortion, which I don't totally reject, there's no way in hell they'll ever have the ability to overturn Roe V Wade.

Ain't gonna happen. They can pass restrictions at the state level, but no state could pass a complete ban. Most states couldn't get a restriction through.

That's an issue that is so insignificant though.

We're BROKE. The republicrats helped of course, but the democrooks set the stage. Defeat the democrooks, roll back their insane spending and then we can fight about everything else. The tea party republicrats rode a wave in 2010 with the promise of controlling spending. Get involved and add to that voice, make it louder this time and the democrooks will get their asses handed to them.

Rollback? C'mon, dude. When is the last time Republicans have gotten controla dn rolled back on their powers. Or their spending for that matter? Are you simply trying to insult us into submission now?

IF your republicans had more substance than the bullshit they spew, you may have a point. But they dont. They talk abotu limited government and then turn around and created another homeland spy agency. Or some othe rbloated agency that sucks funds and infrgines upon our liberties.

Half the reason the GOP is in the toilet now is because even conservatives see that these puss sores are only full of wind. They ACT just like progressive dems once given the key to the coffer. No one is fooled by that shit any more.

I agree with your frustration, I was pissed off about it too. They had the bull by the horns from 2002-2006 and nothing was rolled back, reversed, or even slowed down. It's partly because people got complacent. The economy was roaring, the democrooks seemed powerless, and ammo was CHEAP. So the republicrats acted like democrooks and handed out money. Conservatives got pissed, and didn't show up to vote again till 2010.

Since 2010 however all we've heard is about the conflict within the GOP. People who think more like you and I, and many libertarians at least on ficsal issues have dragged the GOP kicking and screaming in a better direction.

Ron Paul helped encourage actual pandering by some in the GOP for libertarian votes. There were calls for getting rid of the entire tax system, huge agencies, and EVERYONE wanted to repeal obozocare. If they're pandering to you, they're at least hearing you.

The problem is, I dont want to HEAR anymore about it. We've said our peace. The problem is that they say one thing adn do the opposite. Which, seems to be a trend in politics with all politicians. Repuiblicans talk about limit constitutional government and sound fiscal policiy and thats where it all ends. It's lip service and nothing more.

I'm not falling for that crap.