Conservatives may want to read this piece about socialism

[iamwhatiseem]

The Meltdown was in many ways the result of government refusing to regulate the very "securities" and derivatives that damn near brought our economy down.
.

Here is where we may part... refusing to regulate is actually incorrect. It was by design. Indeed it was a result of REGULATIONS that were specifically made to route around regulations, and to even remove some market vehicles out of the SEC's jurisdiction.
Larry Summers was one of the top architects of the derivative market (of which he himself made $millions) and BTW - was a two time top advisor to Obama and Obama wanted to make him Fed Chief...so it isn't just Republicans that reward corruption.

As well as. again, it is important to keep driving in the fact that this is NOT capitalism. It is Corporatism. This is critical for people to understand. Corporatism fundamentally changed our country. We are no longer a Democratic Republic. We are a Plutocratic Corporatocracy.

Whatever you may think we are, it is a result of capitalism.

Not it isn't.
It is the result of corruption.
Every single economic method and societal organization is susceptible to corruption.
Corporatism is NOT capitalism.

 

[blackhawk]

My advice to the young people who think socialism is good thing go look at some of the countries that have tried socialism over the years and see how it worked out for them. They just might discover the idea of socialism is more appealing than socialism itself.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

My advice to the young people who think socialism is good thing go look at some of the countries that have tried socialism over the years and see how it worked out for them. They just might discover the idea of socialism is more appealing than socialism itself.

Of course.
But the same can be said of capitalism.
The problem isn't what method used to organize society and divide the benefit of production, as much as the effects of corruption... of whatever method used.
And as a note, the best system is a limited regulated free market system . Not capitalism.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Of course.
But the same can be said of capitalism.
The problem isn't what method used to organize society and divide the benefit of production, as much as the effects of corruption... of whatever method used.
And as a note, the best system is a limited regulated free market system . Not capitalism.

Welp...not really. You just explained eloquently, if unintentionally, why socialism is worse.....

Corruption is as much a part of human nature as hands & feet. Billy Graham was probably THE ONLY human that wasn't corrupt
Therefore, any mechanism that creates a greater opportunity for the natural tendency towards corruption is less desirable. Precisely what Socialism does to a "T" by empowering government.

Thanks for inadvertently solving the mystery (although many of us were never confused).

Free market system has similar perils btw.

 

[kaz]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

What you have there is low education propaganda. The 2008 meltdown was caused by government.

Slick started the policy of threatening banks into making more subprime loans.

W expanded that policy

The Fed funded it throughout with free money.

When you see everyone on the same side of the boat rowing about to tip over, only government can do that. Capitalists would have continued to switch sides of the boat

 

[Natural Citizen]

The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

We do not have capitalism in America. We have economic interventionism. We have central economic planning by a central bank. We have a planned economy. We have inflationism. We have a belief in deficit fininacing. We have a welfare state.

And this is why the socialists are so interested in our system. Our system is so far removed from capitalism that it's laughable to call it capitalism.

But socialists, like the author, know that we do not really have capitalism. They know that what we have is effectively socialism. Our system is effectively what they need in order to move their own agenda,

Which is why they say, we kow capitalism is so bad, what we need is socialism.

But, no. We do not have capitalism.

The solution is free-markets

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Socialism = legal thievery

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

But we know free markets will never EVER be allowed....don't we?

Are free markets Constitutionally protected?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Of course.
But the same can be said of capitalism.
The problem isn't what method used to organize society and divide the benefit of production, as much as the effects of corruption... of whatever method used.
And as a note, the best system is a limited regulated free market system . Not capitalism.

Welp...not really. You just explained eloquently, if unintentionally, why socialism is worse.....

Corruption is as much a part of human nature as hands & feet. Billy Graham was probably THE ONLY human that wasn't corrupt
Therefore, any mechanism that creates a greater opportunity for the natural tendency towards corruption is less desirable. Precisely what Socialism does to a "T" by empowering government.

Thanks for inadvertently solving the mystery (although many of us were never confused).

Free market system has similar perils btw.

I am not a proponent of socialism. Socialism/Communism is an excellent way to organize small societies....really small. But when applied in larger societies it is probably the most easily corrupted.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Socialism = legal thievery

lol

The system we have NOW is also legal thievery. Socialism would be worse tho. Much worse.

 

[iceberg]

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

Well, they don't:

• Drop standards significantly below what is required of them
• Relax standards to the point at which DOGS were buying homes
• Knowingly put people in balloon mortgages they knew those people would lose
• Lobby (successfully) Greenspan, Bush and the government to refuse to regulate the shit securities
• Go after then-CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born when she BEGGED Greenspan to regulate these shit securities, and their fucked up derivatives cousins, knowing what was coming
  
• Package shit loans into opaque MBS "securities" and sell them off within 12 hours, eliminating their risk
• Threaten to pull business from ratings agencies if these shit securities are not given AAA ratings
• Make the shit securities even shittier by adding fat fees that were absorbed into operating costs
  
• Sell and buy hundreds of billions of dollars of CDSs that had zero (0) dollars in reserve
• Create shit CDOs, which are three times as shitty as MBSs, and misrepresent them
• Bet against the very same shit securities they're selling to "clients"
• Actually create shit securities DESIGNED to fail and buy swaps on them

The Meltdown was about the above, not about legislation.
.

and who told thrm to "drop standards" or else?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

But we know free markets will never EVER be allowed....don't we?

Are free markets Constitutionally protected?

Not as long as the public is drunk on divisive politics...no...there is no chance America will move towards a freer market.

 

[Desperado]

Blaming Capitalism for Bad Personal Choices you made is just wrong.
Now you want socialism so you won't have to make personal decisions anymore

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

My advice to the young people who think socialism is good thing go look at some of the countries that have tried socialism over the years and see how it worked out for them. They just might discover the idea of socialism is more appealing than socialism itself.

My advice to the young people who think socialism is good thing go look at some of the countries that have tried socialism over the years and see how it worked out for them.

Meh. Food and toilet paper are overrated.

 

[Tehon]

The Meltdown was in many ways the result of government refusing to regulate the very "securities" and derivatives that damn near brought our economy down.
.

Here is where we may part... refusing to regulate is actually incorrect. It was by design. Indeed it was a result of REGULATIONS that were specifically made to route around regulations, and to even remove some market vehicles out of the SEC's jurisdiction.
Larry Summers was one of the top architects of the derivative market (of which he himself made $millions) and BTW - was a two time top advisor to Obama and Obama wanted to make him Fed Chief...so it isn't just Republicans that reward corruption.

As well as. again, it is important to keep driving in the fact that this is NOT capitalism. It is Corporatism. This is critical for people to understand. Corporatism fundamentally changed our country. We are no longer a Democratic Republic. We are a Plutocratic Corporatocracy.

Whatever you may think we are, it is a result of capitalism.

Not it isn't.
It is the result of corruption.
Every single economic method and societal organization is susceptible to corruption.
Corporatism is NOT capitalism.

Capitalism, first and foremost, is a method of producing commodities based on private property. It is driven by self interest and maximizing profits is its goal.

What we have is a natural outcome. Where is the corruption?

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

There is a huge fallacy in the NYT article.
The Left caused the Great Recession with the Democratic Party's mortgage policies.
The idiot SJWs believed that everyone should have a house regardless if they can't make the mortgage payments.
BTW the NYT is a racist publication because they hire racist writers aka Sarah Jeong.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Blaming Capitalism for Bad Personal Choices you made is just wrong.
Now you want socialism so you won't have to make personal decisions anymore

I don't believe anyone in this thread, and especially the OP said that socialism is the answer.
It is OK to be critical of one thing, without having to agree that the opposite is better.
We should all learn this.

 

[Mr Natural]

Before engaging in this big boy debate you should really learn some fundamentals…LO’s and Brokers don’t fund loans...they originate them.

You're about as dense as they come.

And part of that origination process is to decide who qualifies for the loan and who doesn't.

It's just plain common sense on the part of the bank to exercise some good judgement.

Otherwise Father Government will step in and do it for them.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The Meltdown was in many ways the result of government refusing to regulate the very "securities" and derivatives that damn near brought our economy down.
.

Here is where we may part... refusing to regulate is actually incorrect. It was by design. Indeed it was a result of REGULATIONS that were specifically made to route around regulations, and to even remove some market vehicles out of the SEC's jurisdiction.
Larry Summers was one of the top architects of the derivative market (of which he himself made $millions) and BTW - was a two time top advisor to Obama and Obama wanted to make him Fed Chief...so it isn't just Republicans that reward corruption.

As well as. again, it is important to keep driving in the fact that this is NOT capitalism. It is Corporatism. This is critical for people to understand. Corporatism fundamentally changed our country. We are no longer a Democratic Republic. We are a Plutocratic Corporatocracy.

Whatever you may think we are, it is a result of capitalism.

Not it isn't.
It is the result of corruption.
Every single economic method and societal organization is susceptible to corruption.
Corporatism is NOT capitalism.

Capitalism, first and foremost, is a method of producing commodities based on private property. It is driven by self interest and maximizing profits is its goal.

What we have is a natural outcome. Where is the corruption?

And what society has ever existed that wasn't based on greed?
You think the USSR wasn't about greed? You think China isn't about greed?
What nation ever existed that wasn't based on greed?
Greed is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, greed pretty much is the basis of every improvement in the history of mankind. But, it is susceptible to corruption. Like everything else.
In the words of the late great Milton Friedman:

 

[blastoff]

I'm hoping we can stay on point here and not degenerate into yet another shallow, platitude-filled discussion on the evils of socialism.

Full disclosure up front: Writer Michael Tomasky is a hardcore left wing partisan ideologue. But in this piece, he actually offers some serious, reasonable, salient advice about the rise in popularity of socialism in this country:

Opinion | What Are Capitalists Thinking?

Examples:

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them. Ask yourself: If you’re 28 like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the New York congressional candidate who describes herself as a democratic socialist, what have you seen during your sentient life?

You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves. Capitalists might want to consider how all that looked to a young person who came from a working-class family and who probably knows someone who lost a job or even his house, while some of the bankers who helped create the mess walked away with golden parachutes, like that of Countrywide Financial’s Angelo Mozilo, which The Times valued at $88 million.

So, back now to our 28-year-old. She was born in 1990. She will probably remember, in the late ’90s, her parents feeling pretty good about things — median household income did go up under Bill Clinton more than they had under any president in a long time, even more than under Ronald Reagan. But ever since, the median income picture has been much spottier, hardly increasing at all in inflation-adjusted dollars over 18 long years. And those incomes at the top have shot to the heavens.

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism? The kind of capitalism this country has been practicing for all these years has failed most people.

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

I stopped reading right after this major crock of shit.
“You witnessed the financial meltdown of 2008, caused by big banks betting against themselves.”

Grown ass adults signed the bottom of every single loan document...they accepted FULL responsibility and acknowledged they could adhere to the guidelines of the loan. People that try to sell that whole “I was victimized by the banks” bullshit are unaccountable fucking bitches....FUCK THEM!
Stop trying to blame the other guy or ‘the system’ for your retarded decision making...YOU FUCKED YOUR RETARDED SELF...PERIOD!

Fuckin’ A!!!