Conservatives may want to read this piece about socialism

[OODA_Loop]

So if you were a person of modest or even middle-class means, how would you feel about capitalism?

Capitalism creates jobs of modest and middle-class means.

I would feel pretty good about Capitalism.

 

[DOTR]

what are banks supposed to do when they're more or less forced to give out bad loans they'd never do otherwise?

Well, they don't:

• Drop standards significantly below what is required of them
• Relax standards to the point at which DOGS were buying homes
• Knowingly put people in balloon mortgages they knew those people would lose
• Lobby (successfully) Greenspan, Bush and the government to refuse to regulate the shit securities
• Go after then-CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born when she BEGGED Greenspan to regulate these shit securities, and their fucked up derivatives cousins, knowing what was coming
  
• Package shit loans into opaque MBS "securities" and sell them off within 12 hours, eliminating their risk
• Threaten to pull business from ratings agencies if these shit securities are not given AAA ratings
• Make the shit securities even shittier by adding fat fees that were absorbed into operating costs
  
• Sell and buy hundreds of billions of dollars of CDSs that had zero (0) dollars in reserve
• Create shit CDOs, which are three times as shitty as MBSs, and misrepresent them
• Bet against the very same shit securities they're selling to "clients"
• Actually create shit securities DESIGNED to fail and buy swaps on them

The Meltdown was about the above, not about legislation.
.

George Bush warned Congress a catastrophe was coming and that SallieMAE and FreddieMac would lead us into the abyss. Barney Franks responded that Bush obviously hated black people.

 

[DOTR]

Watch and weep. It could have been avoided but for socialists.

 

[Tehon]

Whatever you may think we are, it is a result of capitalism.

Not it isn't.
It is the result of corruption.
Every single economic method and societal organization is susceptible to corruption.
Corporatism is NOT capitalism.

Capitalism, first and foremost, is a method of producing commodities based on private property. It is driven by self interest and maximizing profits is its goal.

What we have is a natural outcome. Where is the corruption?

And what society has ever existed that wasn't based on greed?
You think the USSR wasn't about greed? You think China isn't about greed?
What nation ever existed that wasn't based on greed?
Greed is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, greed pretty much is the basis of every improvement in the history of mankind. But, it is susceptible to corruption. Like everything else.
In the words of the late great Milton Friedman:

Where is the corruption?

Thank you for admitting that corporatism is a direct result of capitalism.

 

[g5000]

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them.
.

I used to joke on this forum that we know Republicans love poor people because they make so many of them.

 

[Mac1958]

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them.

I used to joke on this forum that we know Republicans love poor people because they make so many of them.

They just don't care at this point. Pure Wild West libertarianism.
.

 

[g5000]

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them.

I used to joke on this forum that we know Republicans love poor people because they make so many of them.

They just don't care at this point. Pure Wild West libertarianism.
.

I have a wide libertarian streak. However, it is tempered by common sense, which Libertarians (capital L) seriously lack.

Socialism is not the answer to our problems. It is the cause of most of our problems. A great many people who think they are conservatives (pseudocons) are actually quite socialist. Both of our major parties are more socialist than capitalist.

 

[Mac1958]

You want fewer socialists? Easy. Stop creating them.

I used to joke on this forum that we know Republicans love poor people because they make so many of them.

They just don't care at this point. Pure Wild West libertarianism.
.

I have a wide libertarian streak. However, it is tempered by common sense, which Libertarians (capital L) seriously lack.

Socialism is not the answer to our problems. It is the cause of most of our problems. A great many people who think they are conservatives (pseudocons) are actually quite socialist. Both of our major parties are more socialist than capitalist.

What the Right doesn't seem to understand is that all this stuff exists on a continuum.

They don't appear to be able to recognize the difference between Cuba and Canada, and that's a little disturbing.
.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

 

[DOTR]

Thoughts? Or is this just more "fake news"?
.

Fake news. And misdirection. Cortez lived a privileged life...like most socialists. You dont look for socialist hotbeds among the middle or working class. You find it in Ivy League faculty lounges, in corporate boardrooms and supported by Silicon Valley billionaires. It is always the de rigeur favorite at Hollywood celebrity parties and the safe stance for millionaire senators and government civil servants from old money.

But ask yourself this...why must socialism *always* be paired with an anti-gun stance? A pro abortion stance? An anti-christian stance?

This has been one of the biggest problems that the liberal cause faces, be it climate change, public schools or just simply arguing about socialism. They don't understand that that when you are asking people to make lifestyle changes, they need to lead by example.

The elites pushing this stuff should put their kids in public schools, drive economic cars, live in regular neighborhoods, fly commercial whenever possible. Show us how it is done. They are the ones arguing for it, is it to much to ask them to "walk the walk".

My point being Mac posted a lie...intentionally or not. Or at best a piece of disinformation. Socialism doesnt come from people who "lost a job or house". It comes from the wealthy who caused the meltdown. Its a method of mobilizing the underclass to support the wealthy.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

First Clinton, then Bush.

Under clinton and bush.

Say gents...which Administration actively campaigned that "everyone should own a home?"

Clinton or Bush II?

Clinton signed off on this and bush was in on the gig too. Are you really that confused and can't discern?

 

[easyt65]

"I am seeking asylum from CAPITALISM" ....

SAID NO ONE EVER ILLEGALLY CROSSING OUR SOUTHERN BORDER INTO THE UNITED STATES!

While Democrats are fully, completely embracing and singing the praises of Socialism, calling for an end to ICE, open borders, and turning the reins of the DNC over to the new Democratic Socialist Party's new 'rick star's - Bernie & new Cortez...

Socialism worldwide is NOT helping them sell it to the American people.

While Venezuela is the latest Socialist nation to disentigrate into anarchy while Trump has the US economy in the best shape it has been in DECADES:

Strongest economy in DECADES

Lowest unemployment in DECADES

MOST Americans working EVER

Lowest Black and Asian Unemployment IN RECORDED HISTORY

Most manufacturing jobs / fastest growth in DECADES

Fastest rising salary/wages in DECADES

MORE JOBS

MORE FULL-TIME JOBS

RAISES

BONUSES

Far Less Americans on Welfare, Unemployment, Food Stamps....

Far Less Dependency on Big Govt ... Far Less Dependency on LIBERALS....

While the US Economy is roaring, what the Democrats have tied their fate to - Socialism - is on Fire, burning to the ground in Venezuela.

While Trump has just lifted the status of so many across this country by bringing back jobs, money, opportunity Democrats are offering 'Venezuela' to the American people...

Bwuhahahaha.....

Brilliant.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

Bipartisanship has no value in these times. Folks standing in the middle are actually standing on the sideline.
Many people have a habit of trivializing everything by “digging deep”....dig too deep and talk yourself right out of any firm convictions...at the end of the day you’ll stand for nothing. That’s actually the “simple” thing to do.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

Bipartisanship has no value in these times. Folks standing in the middle are actually standing on the sideline.
Many people have a habit of trivializing everything by “digging deep”....dig too deep and talk yourself right out of any firm convictions...at the end of the day you’ll stand for nothing. That’s actually the “simple” thing to do.

I'm not talking about bipartisanship. I'm talking about the fundamental ability to recognize clear differences.

What I can't quite tell is whether you folks really can't recognize the difference between Cuba and Canada, or if you're just playing partisan games.

Still working on that.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

Bipartisanship has no value in these times. Folks standing in the middle are actually standing on the sideline.
Many people have a habit of trivializing everything by “digging deep”....dig too deep and talk yourself right out of any firm convictions...at the end of the day you’ll stand for nothing. That’s actually the “simple” thing to do.

I'm not talking about bipartisanship. I'm talking about the fundamental ability to recognize clear differences.

What I can't quite tell is whether you folks really can't recognize the difference between Cuba and Canada, or if you're just playing partisan games.

Still working on that.
.

Oh but you are talking about bipartisanship, you always are. You simply use different wordplay.
The difference between Canada and Cuba are the people...one nation full of moral, decent, high iQ types with an inherent desire to do and be better the other 180 degrees the opposite....the populous being immoral, indecent, low iQ with an inherent desire to feed from the bottom.
You hate this...but “deep down” you know this is true.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, I think it would be helpful to hear your view on the issue. Where are you on the spectrum? I know you are annoyed with posters calling out socialism, but I am not sure why. It is obvious what people mean. In general, people want more freedom than government control. I don't think we have to dice up definitions to appreciate this. I am curious however, what your views on the spectrum are. I know you want national healthcare and believe medicaid is a feasible vehicle. Most would argue that this is still not affordable. Do you want nationalized higher education as well? My personal belief is that the less the government is involved, the better off people will be. I'm obviously not calling for anarchy, and no roads, ect. I seriously doubt our leaders to come up with intelligent, quality, affordable national programs. I think history backs me up. Every time the national government gets involved, prices for whatever service skyrocket.

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

Bipartisanship has no value in these times. Folks standing in the middle are actually standing on the sideline.
Many people have a habit of trivializing everything by “digging deep”....dig too deep and talk yourself right out of any firm convictions...at the end of the day you’ll stand for nothing. That’s actually the “simple” thing to do.

I'm not talking about bipartisanship. I'm talking about the fundamental ability to recognize clear differences.

What I can't quite tell is whether you folks really can't recognize the difference between Cuba and Canada, or if you're just playing partisan games.

Still working on that.
.

Oh but you are talking about bipartisanship, you always are. You simply use different wordplay.
The difference between Canada and Cuba are the people...one nation full of moral, decent, high iQ types with an inherent desire to do and be better the other 180 degrees the opposite....the populous being immoral, indecent, low iQ with an inherent desire to feed from the bottom.
You hate this...but “deep down” you know this is true.

I'm not talking about the people. I'm talking about the system.

One last try: From an overall perspective, do you see any difference the socialism in Canada and the socialism in Cuba?.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Good luck getting a firm straight answer from Mac1958
He takes great pride in toeing the line...he’s very calculated, he likes to say just enough to keep himself dead center.

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

Bipartisanship has no value in these times. Folks standing in the middle are actually standing on the sideline.
Many people have a habit of trivializing everything by “digging deep”....dig too deep and talk yourself right out of any firm convictions...at the end of the day you’ll stand for nothing. That’s actually the “simple” thing to do.

I'm not talking about bipartisanship. I'm talking about the fundamental ability to recognize clear differences.

What I can't quite tell is whether you folks really can't recognize the difference between Cuba and Canada, or if you're just playing partisan games.

Still working on that.
.

Oh but you are talking about bipartisanship, you always are. You simply use different wordplay.
The difference between Canada and Cuba are the people...one nation full of moral, decent, high iQ types with an inherent desire to do and be better the other 180 degrees the opposite....the populous being immoral, indecent, low iQ with an inherent desire to feed from the bottom.
You hate this...but “deep down” you know this is true.

I'm not talking about the people. I'm talking about the system.

One last try: From an overall perspective, do you see any difference the socialism in Canada and the socialism in Cuba?.
.

You must have missed the point....different types of systems work with different types of people. Socialism can’t work in the U.S...we fucked ourselves with that diversity bullshit we were sold....we now have way too many shameless bottom feeders who take great pride in their complacent filth.

 

[Mac1958]

You're invited to click the link at the end of the second line of my sig for specifics on where I stand on the issues.

Have YOU been that forthcoming?

Fortunately, not all of us look at life as either/or, black/white, all or nothing.

I can only imagine how simple that must make stuff, but I prefer to dig a little deeper.
.

Bipartisanship has no value in these times. Folks standing in the middle are actually standing on the sideline.
Many people have a habit of trivializing everything by “digging deep”....dig too deep and talk yourself right out of any firm convictions...at the end of the day you’ll stand for nothing. That’s actually the “simple” thing to do.

I'm not talking about bipartisanship. I'm talking about the fundamental ability to recognize clear differences.

What I can't quite tell is whether you folks really can't recognize the difference between Cuba and Canada, or if you're just playing partisan games.

Still working on that.
.

Oh but you are talking about bipartisanship, you always are. You simply use different wordplay.
The difference between Canada and Cuba are the people...one nation full of moral, decent, high iQ types with an inherent desire to do and be better the other 180 degrees the opposite....the populous being immoral, indecent, low iQ with an inherent desire to feed from the bottom.
You hate this...but “deep down” you know this is true.

I'm not talking about the people. I'm talking about the system.

One last try: From an overall perspective, do you see any difference the socialism in Canada and the socialism in Cuba?.
.

You must have missed the point....different types of systems work with different types of people. Socialism can’t work in the U.S...we fucked ourselves with that diversity bullshit we were sold....we now have way too many shameless bottom feeders who take great pride in their complacent filth.

Okay, then would you agree that economic systems exist on a continuum, and that there are degrees of what we could call "socialism" that exist in individual countries?
.