Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Mac1958]

Do you see any danger signs on the horizon in the way of demographics, or do figure you have that covered?

Danger to what?

I'll take that as a "no".
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[JoeB131]

I think without term limits for all in government, it is a tough climb.

And of course, the people who could make that happen are the people who want it the least.

We already have term limits. They are called "Elections".

The real problem is this... Go to work today, and then ask 10 of your co-workers if they can name their state's two senators.

Betcha they can't.

They can tell you who got eliminated from the Bachelor, but they can't tell you who is representing them in Washington.

 

[Mac1958]

If I were a black person living in the United States...

...but you're not. And you're assuming that you're making those judgements on the same sets of facts and upbringing and life experiences, but you're not.

And on top of everything else, you have a guy in the White House who is supported by white "supremacists" and white nationalists from coast to coast, a guy who pretended not to know who David Duke is. And you expect them to bring down their defenses and open their minds? Really?

Again, this is an example of my point #2 in the OP: You don't understand their priorities. They think you don't want them here. That overrides any claims, or opinions, or unemployment rate, or stock market level. That cuts to the very core of their existence here. I can't make it more clear than that.
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[JoeB131]

Two? Methinks they sold themselves about 500 lies when they decided to fall in love with Donald Trump.

That's a standard mistake made by partisans on both ends when they put too much faith in politicians.
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Mean old Partisans... they aren't enlightened like Pompous Mac

The reality is, Trump is the equivlent of your girlfriend getting drunk and sleeping with some creep she met in a bar to teach you a lesson.

Of course, when she wakes up, she realizes how bad she messed up.

The election of Trump represents an electorate that didn't take the task seriously, because they were told Hillary "Had this in the Bag", and either voted for Trump not thinking he would win, or voted for a third party loser because, again, Hillary had this in the bag.

 

[IM2]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

No. You republicans manufactured a whole lot of things about democratic candidates, Gerrymandered distracts to oblivion, and passed voter suppression laws aimed at democratic voters.

 

[JoeB131]

Bingo, and that's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote the OP.

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.

No, it will get it's way because if you aren't making six figures, you have no business voting Republican.

You see, the ugly reality is, the Social Darwinist world free of safety nets that Conservatives wank off to at night are ones even they wouldn't want to live in.

They'll bitch about "Them Welfare People', but they'll collect unemployment when they get laid off and collect Social Security when they retire.

The "Lie" conservatives have been told is that they are somehow better than "Those people".

 

[IM2]

Hillary isn't President. That's a win and for most all that matters Mac.

She bitch from hell is not residing at 1600.

As we can see, it was a tragic loss.

 

[IM2]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
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But the GOP has been playing the identity politics game. Since at least 1964.

 

[Mac1958]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
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But the GOP has been playing the identity politics game. Since at least 1964.

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?
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[IM2]

I'm not quite sure what it is you think the GOP should be doing that they're not? Promise minorities more freebies and then not deliver? Become another variation of the same theme Democrats are using? How does that "work" to make the Party better?

I don't know. But if you don't need them, and that's definitely what they think, then you don't have to worry.
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It's not that we need THEM, Mac...it's that the other guys haven't done right by them which means it might be time to look elsewhere! If I were a black person living in the United States...I'd be taking a long hard look at who's promised me a lot in exchange for my vote and what they've delivered on those promises. Especially once the Hispanic voting block becomes so large that the black voting block becomes an afterthought for Democrats!

Well I am black and we've been promised no more by the democrats than whites have been promised by republicans. And we would be stupid to join the republican party knowing they don't give a damn but only wants black votes. So if we are going to change a party, we sure don't run from the one who nominated and worked to get the first black president elected twice to the party where the president is endorsed by the KKK. We've taken the long hard look. And it is comments such as yours that are the prevailing sentiment of the republican party, that tells us to stay away.

 

[IM2]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

But the GOP has been playing the identity politics game. Since at least 1964.

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?
.

I see the left calling the right out on obvious racism then the right making claims of how the left is using identity politics.

 

[Mac1958]

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?

I see the left calling the right out on obvious racism then the right making claims of how the left is using identity politics.

Is that a "no"?
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[IM2]

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?

I see the left calling the right out on obvious racism then the right making claims of how the left is using identity politics.

Is that a "no"?
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I suppose so.

 

[Mac1958]

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?

I see the left calling the right out on obvious racism then the right making claims of how the left is using identity politics.

Is that a "no"?

I suppose so.

Okay, thanks.
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[IM2]

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?

I see the left calling the right out on obvious racism then the right making claims of how the left is using identity politics.

Is that a "no"?

I suppose so.

Okay, thanks.
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Identity politics have always been a part of the American political tradition mac.

 

[JoeB131]

Identity politics have always been a part of the American political tradition mac.

Mac is just upset no one identifies with Islamophobic Liberals.

Because that's an oxymoron.

 

[IM2]

Identity politics have always been a part of the American political tradition mac.

Mac is just upset no one identifies with Islamophobic Liberals.

Because that's an oxymoron.

Please, spare me the conservative bullshit.

 

[JoeB131]

Please, spare me the conservative bullshit.

Don't think anyone would accuse me of being a conservative, but okay.

 

[Mac1958]

Identity politics have always been a part of the American political tradition mac.

Mac is just upset no one identifies with Islamophobic Liberals.

Because that's an oxymoron.

Please, spare me the conservative bullshit.

I could say "oranges are orange", and my little stalker friend would find a way to complain and attack. I've never been up in someone's head like this before.

You get used to it. No harm, no foul.
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[dblack]

Do you see the Left using Identity Politics?

I see the left calling the right out on obvious racism then the right making claims of how the left is using identity politics.

Is that a "no"?

I suppose so.

Okay, thanks.
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Identity politics have always been a part of the American political tradition mac.

Sounds like you're defining "identity politics" very broadly. When I use the term, I'm referring to something more specific. It's a shift in the focus of government - a shift away the goal of protecting equal, universal rights for all, and toward a mode of government where everyone gets a different deal. It's fair to say there's never been true "equal rights", probably never will be, but at least that was the stated goal.

Now it seems we've become disillusioned with the ideal of equal rights, and now welcome the idea of government that's mostly about scoring privilege. Government is no longer a way to protect ourselves from bullies, but instead a way to get one over on the other guy. ie government has become a tool for the bullies, a means of forcing their desires on other people.