Cops all across the country are killing dogs like rats...

[George Costanza]

While most cops are decent, sensible individuals, some are authoritarian sociopaths who can't wait to use their guns on something other than a paper target. And because relatively little administrative attention is paid to the "defensive" shooting of a domestic animal, when the wrong kind of cop comes upon the right kind of situation a beloved pet can easily become a perverse opportunity.

That was kind of stupid.

I don't think so. Which part of the post are your referring to, by the way?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The police are becoming more brutal as a response to the people and activitites that they are forced to deal with on a daily basis. I say this as someone who has spent a fair amount of time around LEO's from the local level up through the FBI, the US Border Patrol, and the Secret Service.

The world these officers exist in today is totally different than the one their predecessors dealt with while carrying a six shot S&W revolver and a shotgun in the trunk of their patrol car thirty years ago. Even a modern officer, wearing a Level IIA bulletproof vest, carrying a .40cal semi-automatic pistol, and having a shotgun and carbine in the trunk of his cruiser is still often going to be outgunned and out-equipped by the criminals that he has to deal with on a daily basis.

More importantly, in our increasingly litigous society, that officer's training with those firearms is not likely to be what it should be unless he/she goes out of their way to get private training off-hours and at their own expense. The CT State Police Academy (as of 2003) included 5 days of firearms training in a 14 week training schedule. How can any officer be expected to become competent with a firearm in that period of time? More importantly, these officers are given these tools and then told that if they ever use them, they're likely to be suspended without pay, thrown under the bus by their department, and quite often lose their jobs in the end. We give them a tool, don't teach them how to properly use it, and then tell them we're going to discipline them if they use it incorrectly. That's a great help.

What we need is essentially a "Top Gun" of "Red Flag"for LEO's.... somewhere that they can go to learn the Art and Science of the Gunfight so that they can learn how to avoid the need to discharge that firearm, but also how to be sure that they're the one who survives IF it comes to needing to do so.

Sorry, but that is total bullshit. Police are becoming more brutal because they prefer to use force to handle minir incidents. They routinely use SWAT tactics to handle minor drug bust in order to justify having them at all. Can you tell me a single example ever in the US that justifies police having MRAP vehicles? Do we have drug gangs having shootouts with each other and police in cities across America? Why do we need this at all? The only reason it is happening at all is because people are making money.

Our Militarized Police Departments - Reason Magazine

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I prefer the term puppycide. Cops should be able to deal with a dog without shooting it. I have walked up to many aggressive dogs over the years, have never been bitten, and have never once felt the need to shoot any of them. That includes my friends chihuahua that thought my ankle was some type of chew toy. Yet police, when faced with chihuahuas, shoot them because they feel that their lives are in danger.

Sorry, but an adult human is in no danger from any chihuahua that I have ever seen, even if it has rabies.

Chihuahuas are not dogs.

If it looks like a rat and squeaks like a rat...

Maybe they thought it was a squirrel.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eDhdEd8zrg&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - baby squirrel abuse[/ame]

 

[Anachronism]

Sorry, but that is total bullshit. Police are becoming more brutal because they prefer to use force to handle minir incidents. They routinely use SWAT tactics to handle minor drug bust in order to justify having them at all. Can you tell me a single example ever in the US that justifies police having MRAP vehicles? Do we have drug gangs having shootouts with each other and police in cities across America? Why do we need this at all? The only reason it is happening at all is because people are making money.

Honestly, I have ZERO issue with a militarized police force. I have almost as little issue with a very loose, "Shoot First, Ask Questions Laters" ROE as well. I have ZERO Tolerance or sympathy for people who break the law. I have even less for those people who cannot or will not comply with police orders. In a situation where it's citizen or cop I'm siding with the COP 9 times out of 10; and that one time I side with the citizen, I expect I'm probably going to be wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sorry, but that is total bullshit. Police are becoming more brutal because they prefer to use force to handle minir incidents. They routinely use SWAT tactics to handle minor drug bust in order to justify having them at all. Can you tell me a single example ever in the US that justifies police having MRAP vehicles? Do we have drug gangs having shootouts with each other and police in cities across America? Why do we need this at all? The only reason it is happening at all is because people are making money.

Honestly, I have ZERO issue with a militarized police force. I have almost as little issue with a very loose, "Shoot First, Ask Questions Laters" ROE as well. I have ZERO Tolerance or sympathy for people who break the law. I have even less for those people who cannot or will not comply with police orders. In a situation where it's citizen or cop I'm siding with the COP 9 times out of 10; and that one time I side with the citizen, I expect I'm probably going to be wrong.

You have no problem with cops shooting deaf people because they cannot comply with an order they do not hear?

Family: Man shot by police was deaf in left ear - seattlepi.com

My advice to you is not to expect them to care that you think they have the right to smash your face into the ground if you ever end up on the wrongs side of a cop in a bad mood.

 

[Tank]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdKdp1mv0pk]YouTube - Dog Eats Police Car[/ame]

 

[Anachronism]

You have no problem with cops shooting deaf people because they cannot comply with an order they do not hear?

It's unfortunate that things like that happen, but if one doesn't put themselves in the position to be dealing with the cops to begin with, that sort of stuff doesn't happen.

My advice to you is not to expect them to care that you think they have the right to smash your face into the ground if you ever end up on the wrongs side of a cop in a bad mood.

I've had an officer point a gun at me in the past. My vehicle matched the description of one used in an armed robbery and a Mass State Trooper stopped me. As I said earlier.... When you deal with the police you DO WHAT YOUR TOLD, DON'T ARGUE; and DON'T RESIST. If there's a problem you let your lawyer deal with it after the fact. Then again, I go out of my way not to be in a position to have to deal with the police any more than absolutely necessary.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have no problem with cops shooting deaf people because they cannot comply with an order they do not hear?

It's unfortunate that things like that happen, but if one doesn't put themselves in the position to be dealing with the cops to begin with, that sort of stuff doesn't happen.

My advice to you is not to expect them to care that you think they have the right to smash your face into the ground if you ever end up on the wrongs side of a cop in a bad mood.

I've had an officer point a gun at me in the past. My vehicle matched the description of one used in an armed robbery and a Mass State Trooper stopped me. As I said earlier.... When you deal with the police you DO WHAT YOUR TOLD, DON'T ARGUE; and DON'T RESIST. If there's a problem you let your lawyer deal with it after the fact. Then again, I go out of my way not to be in a position to have to deal with the police any more than absolutely necessary.

How does a guy that is minding his own business put himself in the way of cops?

 

[percysunshine]

The funniest thing I ever saw was the Michael Vick doggy chew toy.

 

[Anachronism]

How does a guy that is minding his own business put himself in the way of cops?

By living in the wrong neighborhood. By hanging out with the wrong people.

Even if you aren't, sometime trouble just finds you. The day I got pulled over because my vehicle matched the description of one used in an armed robbery, I was minding my own business. If I'd done something the least bit stupid I would likely have gotten shot.

When dealing with the police you just do what you're told and worry about sorting it out afterwards. Anything other than that opens you up to being pepper sprayed, tasered, or shot. Three things I'd like to avoid.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How does a guy that is minding his own business put himself in the way of cops?

By living in the wrong neighborhood. By hanging out with the wrong people.

Even if you aren't, sometime trouble just finds you. The day I got pulled over because my vehicle matched the description of one used in an armed robbery, I was minding my own business. If I'd done something the least bit stupid I would likely have gotten shot.

When dealing with the police you just do what you're told and worry about sorting it out afterwards. Anything other than that opens you up to being pepper sprayed, tasered, or shot. Three things I'd like to avoid.

Living in the wrong neighborhood? Did this couple live in the wrong neighborhood, or were the cops just incredibly stupid?

Computer snafu is behind at least 50 'raids' on Brooklyn couple's home - New York Daily News

Maybe this guy was hanging out with the wrong people, we all know that politicians hang out with all sorts of unsavory people.

Deadly Force - washingtonpost.com

When the police deal with me they are supposed to assume I am innocent, and treat me that way. they are supposed to defer to my rights, and accept that I might be having a bad day. They are supposed to answer to me, not the other way around. Anything other than that opens me up to living in a police state, something I think even you want to avoid.

 

[Anachronism]

When the police deal with me they are supposed to assume I am innocent, and treat me that way. they are supposed to defer to my rights, and accept that I might be having a bad day. They are supposed to answer to me, not the other way around. Anything other than that opens me up to living in a police state, something I think even you want to avoid.

Not necessarily. Personally, I'm not a big believer in "Innocent until Proven Guilty", or most of the other CRAP that our LEO's have to put up with on a daily basis. As I walk down the street on a daily basis I assume that everyone I see is a potential threat to me until proven otherwise. I assume everyone is guilty of something, if nothing other than not having MY best interests in their heart. I'm a big believer that the only way to truly clean up society is going to be to take the choke collar off of our LEO's and let them start being interested in JUSTICE rather than Legality.

One of the men I had the opportunity to meet before his passing is former NYPD Stakeout Squad member Jim Cirillo. Jim's claim to fame is that he was 17-0 in gunfights during his career on the NYPD. You know how he did he?.... He CHEATED. He didn't fight fair. He had no qualms about shooting a suspect who had little or no chance to defend himself. For example....

Jim and his partner were staking out a liquor store. A robber came in and demanded the money. Jim and his partner stepped out of the back room. As Jim described the encounter.... "We stepped out of the back room. The suspect turned towards us. I announced our presence. He started to raise his weapon. I fired one round from the shotgun and he went down." As the suspect described the encounter...."I saw somebody moving and I turned towards them. I hear 'Surprise A**hole!!', then this loud bang; and the next thing I know I wake up in the hospital and they're trying to put my right arm back on."

Mayor Guiliani (I believe) shut down the stakeout squad because they weren't PC. They may not have been, but they got the job done. Justice or Bureaucracy. We can only have one. I prefer Justice.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

I've had an officer point a gun at me in the past. My vehicle matched the description of one used in an armed robbery and a Mass State Trooper stopped me. As I said earlier.... When you deal with the police you DO WHAT YOUR TOLD, DON'T ARGUE; and DON'T RESIST. If there's a problem you let your lawyer deal with it after the fact. Then again, I go out of my way not to be in a position to have to deal with the police any more than absolutely necessary.

That anecdote seems somewhat tailored to fit.

If you were suspected of armed robbery, which defines the situation you've presented, you would have been ordered to exit your vehicle hands first, to drop to your knees, then to lie on your face on the asphalt, and you would have felt a knee on your neck as handcuffs were applied. If this is not what happened the trooper who stopped you was in violation of procedure, which at present is mandatory throughout the U.S., not discretionary.

So please tell us how you feel about driving down a highway having done nothing wrong, being pulled over by a police officer and having your face pushed onto a dirty highway surface, your clothes being soiled and your dignity as a decent citizen being annulled?

Then, please visit this website and take the time to review the kind of outrageous abuse of law enforcement authority which is becoming more and more commonplace in America and let us know what you think of it.
Cato Map on SWAT Raids
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

 

[MikeK]

When the police deal with me they are supposed to assume I am innocent, and treat me that way. they are supposed to defer to my rights, and accept that I might be having a bad day. They are supposed to answer to me, not the other way around. Anything other than that opens me up to living in a police state, something I think even you want to avoid.

Not necessarily. Personally, I'm not a big believer in "Innocent until Proven Guilty", or most of the other CRAP that our LEO's have to put up with on a daily basis. As I walk down the street on a daily basis I assume that everyone I see is a potential threat to me until proven otherwise. I assume everyone is guilty of something, if nothing other than not having MY best interests in their heart. I'm a big believer that the only way to truly clean up society is going to be to take the choke collar off of our LEO's and let them start being interested in JUSTICE rather than Legality.

One of the men I had the opportunity to meet before his passing is former NYPD Stakeout Squad member Jim Cirillo. Jim's claim to fame is that he was 17-0 in gunfights during his career on the NYPD. You know how he did he?.... He CHEATED. He didn't fight fair. He had no qualms about shooting a suspect who had little or no chance to defend himself. For example....

Jim and his partner were staking out a liquor store. A robber came in and demanded the money. Jim and his partner stepped out of the back room. As Jim described the encounter.... "We stepped out of the back room. The suspect turned towards us. I announced our presence. He started to raise his weapon. I fired one round from the shotgun and he went down." As the suspect described the encounter...."I saw somebody moving and I turned towards them. I hear 'Surprise A**hole!!', then this loud bang; and the next thing I know I wake up in the hospital and they're trying to put my right arm back on."

Mayor Guiliani (I believe) shut down the stakeout squad because they weren't PC. They may not have been, but they got the job done. Justice or Bureaucracy. We can only have one. I prefer Justice.

The reason Giuliani, an extremely pro-police mayor, saw fit to disband the infamous Stakeout Squad, whose m.o. was to stake out high armed robbery prospect locations, was the reputation those fellows had attained as cold-blooded murderers.

The incident that led to them being disbanded and scattered was testimony the I.A.B. (then I.A.D.) took from the proprietor of a Bronx drug store in which a young male entered, presented a handgun and demanded drugs and money. According to the proprietor, the Squad knocked down the mock-up they routinely used to hide behind and after the would-be robber threw down his gun and raised his hands the Squad cop said, "Merry Christmas, motherfucker!," and the robber was hit with two handgun rounds and one round of 00 buckshot and killed.

The issue of right vs wrong is a matter of opinion. Some think that's the way to do things, others feel otherwise. My personal opinion is I would not want that kind of assignment for a number of reasons, the boredom for one. But to offer a firm opinion of what that Squad was about I would need to be a cop and to have such an assignmnet.

 

[editec]

See, this is where I'll disagree with most people. I was taught at an early age that you do whatever a cop tells you to do and you fight about it in court after the fact if necessary. You don't argue. You don't resist. You don't even complain. You simply do what the hell you're told to do; or you get exactly what you deserve. Especially if you're brandishing any sort of weapon.

Yes good advice, without doubt.

Still the number of people who are clearly no threat either to the cops or the people who are getting shot by cops appears to be on the rise.

What changed?

That's really the issue here.

 

[George Costanza]

The incident that led to them being disbanded and scattered was testimony the I.A.B. (then I.A.D.) took from the proprietor of a Bronx drug store in which a young male entered, presented a handgun and demanded drugs and money. According to the proprietor, the Squad knocked down the mock-up they routinely used to hide behind and after the would-be robber threw down his gun and raised his hands the Squad cop said, "Merry Christmas, motherfucker!," and the robber was hit with two handgun rounds and one round of 00 buckshot and killed.

The issue of right vs wrong is a matter of opinion. Some think that's the way to do things, others feel otherwise.

Excuse me? If this is an accurate report, it seems to me there is very little question with regard to the issue of right or wrong here.

Once again, assuming this report contains all the facts, and there is nothing else about this incident we need to know, how anyone could defend something like this is beyond me.

 

[Anachronism]

Yes good advice, without doubt.

Still the number of people who are clearly no threat either to the cops or the people who are getting shot by cops appears to be on the rise.

What changed?

That's really the issue here.

What's changed is that the Cops have adopted a "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" attitude which I do not blame them for, and which I think is the right thing to do.

Excuse me? If this is an accurate report, it seems to me there is very little question with regard to the issue of right or wrong here.

Once again, assuming this report contains all the facts, and there is nothing else about this incident we need to know, how anyone could defend something like this is beyond me.

Very easy.... We put down rabid dogs in this society. We don't allow them to continue to be a threat to society. Even if they put their tail between their legs at the last moment and act submissive, we put them down anyway. That's exactly what those two officers did, and I applaud them for it.

 

[George Costanza]

What's changed is that the Cops have adopted a "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" attitude which I do not blame them for, and which I think is the right thing to do.

Unless, of course, you and/or a loved one might happen to have been in the line of fire simply because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Anachronism]

Unless, of course, you and/or a loved one might happen to have been in the line of fire simply because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm a big believer in FATE, George. When it's my time to get my ticket punched, there's nothing I can do to change it. Besides, if I'm in the sort of place that's likely to be targeted by the Stakeout Squad (they chose places that had been repeatedly robbed, generally not in very nice neighborhoods) I'm probably getting what I deserve anyway.

 

[Tank]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGUyMFPJRnU]YouTube - Dog attacks Police Officer Taser Full News Report[/ame]