Corporate welfare in action ....

[Toddsterpatriot]

The point being that many are claiming corporate welfare gives great benefits to the area. I think it is clear it is not only very costly, but there are no real benefits. Walmart can afford to expand it's business without government help.

Whether a given incentive benefits or harms specific people are groups isn't the point. The problem is that these policies are bad government. No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses. The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally. Governments are using targeted tax breaks, and other legislative 'tweaking' , as bargaining chips to manipulate the economy. This goes against every principle of free markets. Conservatives who support it are hypocrites if they also claim to support free markets. You can't have it both ways.

The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally.

Sounds like we should have a flat tax for individuals.

Sometimes I think that would make the rich pay more than they do now.

Great, then let's do it.

 

[Brain357]

The point being that many are claiming corporate welfare gives great benefits to the area. I think it is clear it is not only very costly, but there are no real benefits. Walmart can afford to expand it's business without government help.

Whether a given incentive benefits or harms specific people are groups isn't the point. The problem is that these policies are bad government. No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses. The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally. Governments are using targeted tax breaks, and other legislative 'tweaking' , as bargaining chips to manipulate the economy. This goes against every principle of free markets. Conservatives who support it are hypocrites if they also claim to support free markets. You can't have it both ways.

The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally.

Sounds like we should have a flat tax for individuals.

Sometimes I think that would make the rich pay more than they do now.

Great, then let's do it.

Is that what trump is going to propose? Need to see the numbers.

 

[Brain357]

Walmart is making billions while workers are paid so little they still collect welfare. How many better paying jobs did Walmart run out of town? Walmart shouldn't be given other incentives. Government should not be picking winners and losers.

Walmart is making billions while workers are paid so little they still collect welfare.

Yup. So if they fire the welfare recipients, how much will government save on welfare spending?
Show me.

How many better paying jobs did Walmart run out of town?

Mom and pop stores paid big bucks? Sears, Kmart, Montgomery Ward paid big bucks? Are you sure?

So you respond with questions. Do you think we should go against capitalism to provide corporate welfare for Walmart?

So you respond with questions.

You can't answer?
Is it because you don't know?
Or would an honest answer highlight the stupidity of the claim?

Do you think we should go against capitalism to provide corporate welfare for Walmart?

If you're talking about the control tower, privatize it. Privatize all the control towers.
If you're talking about welfare being a subsidy for WalMart, answer my questions first.

I simply don't have the time to play your silly games where you never answer anything and respond with questions. The bottom line is corporate welfare is against capitalism and the free market. Government should not be picking winners and losers.

The bottom line is corporate welfare is against capitalism and the free market.

The bottom line is that the government paying poor people is not corporate welfare.

Government should not be picking winners and losers.

Is the government only paying poor people who work at WalMart and not ones who work at Target?
Or do all people under a certain income level receive benefits?
If the answer is all, then the government is not picking winners and losers.

When tax incentives and grants and subsidies are thrown at certain companies they are picking winners and losers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses.

So who would make the law and who would enforce it?

The federal government cannot interfere in a state or cities taxation policies, and cities and states would never write laws that disadvantage them.

 

[dblack]

The point being that many are claiming corporate welfare gives great benefits to the area. I think it is clear it is not only very costly, but there are no real benefits. Walmart can afford to expand it's business without government help.

Whether a given incentive benefits or harms specific people are groups isn't the point. The problem is that these policies are bad government. No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses. The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally. Governments are using targeted tax breaks, and other legislative 'tweaking' , as bargaining chips to manipulate the economy. This goes against every principle of free markets. Conservatives who support it are hypocrites if they also claim to support free markets. You can't have it both ways.

The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally.

Sounds like we should have a flat tax for individuals.

Or just drop income tax altogether.

 

[dblack]

No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses.

So who would make the law and who would enforce it?

The federal government cannot interfere in a state or cities taxation policies, and cities and states would never write laws that disadvantage them.

No idea what you're talking about here. Can you rephrase it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Walmart is making billions while workers are paid so little they still collect welfare.

Yup. So if they fire the welfare recipients, how much will government save on welfare spending?
Show me.

How many better paying jobs did Walmart run out of town?

Mom and pop stores paid big bucks? Sears, Kmart, Montgomery Ward paid big bucks? Are you sure?

So you respond with questions. Do you think we should go against capitalism to provide corporate welfare for Walmart?

So you respond with questions.

You can't answer?
Is it because you don't know?
Or would an honest answer highlight the stupidity of the claim?

Do you think we should go against capitalism to provide corporate welfare for Walmart?

If you're talking about the control tower, privatize it. Privatize all the control towers.
If you're talking about welfare being a subsidy for WalMart, answer my questions first.

I simply don't have the time to play your silly games where you never answer anything and respond with questions. The bottom line is corporate welfare is against capitalism and the free market. Government should not be picking winners and losers.

The bottom line is corporate welfare is against capitalism and the free market.

The bottom line is that the government paying poor people is not corporate welfare.

Government should not be picking winners and losers.

Is the government only paying poor people who work at WalMart and not ones who work at Target?
Or do all people under a certain income level receive benefits?
If the answer is all, then the government is not picking winners and losers.

When tax incentives and grants and subsidies are thrown at certain companies they are picking winners and losers.

Yup. Welfare given to poor people is not a subsidy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The point being that many are claiming corporate welfare gives great benefits to the area. I think it is clear it is not only very costly, but there are no real benefits. Walmart can afford to expand it's business without government help.

Whether a given incentive benefits or harms specific people are groups isn't the point. The problem is that these policies are bad government. No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses. The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally. Governments are using targeted tax breaks, and other legislative 'tweaking' , as bargaining chips to manipulate the economy. This goes against every principle of free markets. Conservatives who support it are hypocrites if they also claim to support free markets. You can't have it both ways.

The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally.

Sounds like we should have a flat tax for individuals.

Or just drop income tax altogether.

Replaced by what?

 

[dblack]

The point being that many are claiming corporate welfare gives great benefits to the area. I think it is clear it is not only very costly, but there are no real benefits. Walmart can afford to expand it's business without government help.

Whether a given incentive benefits or harms specific people are groups isn't the point. The problem is that these policies are bad government. No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses. The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally. Governments are using targeted tax breaks, and other legislative 'tweaking' , as bargaining chips to manipulate the economy. This goes against every principle of free markets. Conservatives who support it are hypocrites if they also claim to support free markets. You can't have it both ways.

The law is required to be universal and apply to everyone equally.

Sounds like we should have a flat tax for individuals.

Or just drop income tax altogether.

Replaced by what?

There are some interesting proposals. Probably deserves its own thread.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/----/ You made it clear that WalMart wanted a larger store but it went over Brains head. (no pun intended)

And what proof is there of any of that? How do we know any of that even happened? How does Ray know why Walmart does anything? Is he an exec at Walmart? He's just telling silly stories which may or may not be true. Here is a story. Walmart gets lots of corporate welfare to move into a mall. The city spends a lot to create this mall and gives up lots of tax dollars in corp welfare. Walmart then moves ten miles away closing the store in the mall and killing the cities mall investment.

/----/ I don't know, maybe it was a story in the local newspaper.
Walmart to close two stores in advance of Arvada Plaza supercenter ...
www.denverpost.com/2017/06/06/walmart-arvada-plaza-supercenter/

Jun 6, 2017 - Walmart will shutter two stores in Arvada and Wheat Ridge next month before the openingof its new Arvada Plaza supercenter in August.
List of the 154 U.S. stores Walmart is closing - USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/.../01/...walmart-stores-closing/78852898/
Jan 15, 2016 - Closings include 102 Walmart Express, 12 Supercenters, ... Walmart to close 269 stores,shut down 'Express' format. Here is .... Supercenter

Then he should link it. You just buy into silly made up stories with no backing do you?

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It was great, but Walmart wanted to open up a Super Walmart which they did after they closed the new store in the mall. It was located less than ten miles from their former store and opened up in less than a year after they closed the mall store.

/----/ You made it clear that WalMart wanted a larger store but it went over Brains head. (no pun intended)

And what proof is there of any of that? How do we know any of that even happened? How does Ray know why Walmart does anything? Is he an exec at Walmart? He's just telling silly stories which may or may not be true. Here is a story. Walmart gets lots of corporate welfare to move into a mall. The city spends a lot to create this mall and gives up lots of tax dollars in corp welfare. Walmart then moves ten miles away closing the store in the mall and killing the cities mall investment.

Oh and on top of that walmart pays so little its employees are collecting welfare:
1. Wal-Mart
The nation’s largest retail outlet is passing its tax bill down to the American public in more ways than one.
A University of California Berkeley report indicates the corporation’s low-wage jobs were costing the state an estimated $86 million in taxpayer-funded public assistance programs. While boasting the necessity for low-wages, the corporation was essentially handing down costs to taxpayers in the form of publicly-funded health insurance and food assistance programs.

A more blatant example of Wal-Mart’s delight in public funds came through a taxpayer-funded control tower at an airport that houses Wal-Mart’s cargo corporate fleet. According to Bloomberg News, a spending bill approved in 2011 halted measures that would have taken away government-funded controllers for Wal-Mart’s jets in Rogers, Arkansas.

Airports the size of Rogers Municipal Airport in Arkansas typically aren’t required to have their own control towers. But because the airport hosts Wal-Mart’s fleet, ushering in plenty of traffic, it is required to purchase the traffic controller, and pay costs associated with the airport that essentially serves as Wal-Mart’s own public (but really private) airport. The airport is slated to spend $81,000 this year for the tower.

Oh the benefits of corporate welfare.

4 Examples Of Corporate Welfare In Action | Taxpayers for Common Sense

/----/ My first job was minimum wage but I was living at home and I saved every dime to but my first car (a used Karmann Ghia) When I moved out on my own, I needed more money to live on so I found a bartender job where I earned Tips. I made about three times minimum wage. I was attending college part time (paying my own way) and found a job based on my new skills I acquired in college. But I kept my bartender job as well. As my skills improved, I was able to find higher paying jobs and eventually gave up the bartender work. BTW - there were no decent jobs where I grew up so I moved to where the jobs were.

That's great.

So why should Walmart a company making billions receive corporate welfare to create poorly paying jobs that require workers to collect more welfare?

What Walmart pays their employees has nothing to do with welfare. If you don't make enough money, you are free to find better employment, work more hours, or get a second job. I've done that plenty of times in my life.

 

[dblack]

And what proof is there of any of that? How do we know any of that even happened? How does Ray know why Walmart does anything? Is he an exec at Walmart? He's just telling silly stories which may or may not be true. Here is a story. Walmart gets lots of corporate welfare to move into a mall. The city spends a lot to create this mall and gives up lots of tax dollars in corp welfare. Walmart then moves ten miles away closing the store in the mall and killing the cities mall investment.

/----/ I don't know, maybe it was a story in the local newspaper.
Walmart to close two stores in advance of Arvada Plaza supercenter ...
www.denverpost.com/2017/06/06/walmart-arvada-plaza-supercenter/

Jun 6, 2017 - Walmart will shutter two stores in Arvada and Wheat Ridge next month before the openingof its new Arvada Plaza supercenter in August.
List of the 154 U.S. stores Walmart is closing - USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/.../01/...walmart-stores-closing/78852898/
Jan 15, 2016 - Closings include 102 Walmart Express, 12 Supercenters, ... Walmart to close 269 stores,shut down 'Express' format. Here is .... Supercenter

Then he should link it. You just buy into silly made up stories with no backing do you?

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Apple to build Iowa data center, get $207.8 million in incentives

We've got to get a handle on this shit. Whatever happened to equal protection?

/---/ if a car dealership offers a big discount on a new car to "qualified" buyers, is that not equal protection?

Equal protection doesn't apply to non-governmental entities (like a car dealership). It's the concept that the law is applied to everyone equally.

Then your federal income tax rate would be 35%. Can you afford to pay 35% of your pay to income taxes?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/----/ I don't know, maybe it was a story in the local newspaper.
Walmart to close two stores in advance of Arvada Plaza supercenter ...
www.denverpost.com/2017/06/06/walmart-arvada-plaza-supercenter/

Jun 6, 2017 - Walmart will shutter two stores in Arvada and Wheat Ridge next month before the openingof its new Arvada Plaza supercenter in August.
List of the 154 U.S. stores Walmart is closing - USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/.../01/...walmart-stores-closing/78852898/
Jan 15, 2016 - Closings include 102 Walmart Express, 12 Supercenters, ... Walmart to close 269 stores,shut down 'Express' format. Here is .... Supercenter

Then he should link it. You just buy into silly made up stories with no backing do you?

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses.

So who would make the law and who would enforce it?

The federal government cannot interfere in a state or cities taxation policies, and cities and states would never write laws that disadvantage them.

No idea what you're talking about here. Can you rephrase it?

It's right above you. You said no government at any level should be allowed...........

Okay, not allowed by whom? Who should stop a city or state from offering tax abatements?

 

[dblack]

Then he should link it. You just buy into silly made up stories with no backing do you?

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

 

[dblack]

No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses.

So who would make the law and who would enforce it?

The federal government cannot interfere in a state or cities taxation policies, and cities and states would never write laws that disadvantage them.

No idea what you're talking about here. Can you rephrase it?

It's right above you. You said no government at any level should be allowed...........

Okay, not allowed by whom? Who should stop a city or state from offering tax abatements?

I think it's a (rare) proper application of the Commerce Clause, so the federal courts would be the likely authority.

 

[Picaro]

Apple to build Iowa data center, get $207.8 million in incentives

We've got to get a handle on this shit. Whatever happened to equal protection?

And, they aren't even an American company.

 

[Picaro]

Iowa isnt exactly Silly-conehead Calif.

that 200 million dollar investment will pay for itself in nothing flat and boost the local and state economy from now until the day Apple decides to go.

In that case it would have made a fine investment for private capital...right?

lol of course, but right wingers avoid these little cognitive dissonances of theirs.

It would also be nice if they can point to a case where this kind of scam ever paid for itself; it sure hasn't worked here in Texas.

 

[Cellblock2429]

And what proof is there of any of that? How do we know any of that even happened? How does Ray know why Walmart does anything? Is he an exec at Walmart? He's just telling silly stories which may or may not be true. Here is a story. Walmart gets lots of corporate welfare to move into a mall. The city spends a lot to create this mall and gives up lots of tax dollars in corp welfare. Walmart then moves ten miles away closing the store in the mall and killing the cities mall investment.

Oh and on top of that walmart pays so little its employees are collecting welfare:
1. Wal-Mart
The nation’s largest retail outlet is passing its tax bill down to the American public in more ways than one.
A University of California Berkeley report indicates the corporation’s low-wage jobs were costing the state an estimated $86 million in taxpayer-funded public assistance programs. While boasting the necessity for low-wages, the corporation was essentially handing down costs to taxpayers in the form of publicly-funded health insurance and food assistance programs.

A more blatant example of Wal-Mart’s delight in public funds came through a taxpayer-funded control tower at an airport that houses Wal-Mart’s cargo corporate fleet. According to Bloomberg News, a spending bill approved in 2011 halted measures that would have taken away government-funded controllers for Wal-Mart’s jets in Rogers, Arkansas.

Airports the size of Rogers Municipal Airport in Arkansas typically aren’t required to have their own control towers. But because the airport hosts Wal-Mart’s fleet, ushering in plenty of traffic, it is required to purchase the traffic controller, and pay costs associated with the airport that essentially serves as Wal-Mart’s own public (but really private) airport. The airport is slated to spend $81,000 this year for the tower.

Oh the benefits of corporate welfare.

4 Examples Of Corporate Welfare In Action | Taxpayers for Common Sense

/----/ My first job was minimum wage but I was living at home and I saved every dime to but my first car (a used Karmann Ghia) When I moved out on my own, I needed more money to live on so I found a bartender job where I earned Tips. I made about three times minimum wage. I was attending college part time (paying my own way) and found a job based on my new skills I acquired in college. But I kept my bartender job as well. As my skills improved, I was able to find higher paying jobs and eventually gave up the bartender work. BTW - there were no decent jobs where I grew up so I moved to where the jobs were.

That's great.

So why should Walmart a company making millions receive corporate welfare to create poorly paying jobs that require workers to collect more welfare?

/----/ That is their business model - although somewhat perverted so you can make political points. Walmart does more to help the poor than all Gubmint programs combined. That's why Libs hate them so much.
Why do progressives hate Walmart for low prices and its 3% profit margin but love high-priced Apple and its 24% profit margin? - AEI

Their business model is to collect lots of corporate welfare? They would do fine without all these sweet deals from the government.

/----/ no you dip wad. Walmart's mission statement is “Saving people money so they can live better.” This statement is synonymous to the company's slogan, “Save money. Live better.” How Walmart Makes Money? Understanding Walmart Business Model - Revenues & Profits