Corporate welfare in action ....

[Cellblock2429]

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

/----/ Well DemocRAT Gov Andy-Boy Cuomo believes in tax incentives 100%
New York Tax-Based Incentives | Empire State Development
New York Tax-Based Incentives | Empire State Development

Tax credits and incentives give New York State businesses a competitive edge. You'll find all forms of tax incentives, business incentives and tax credits in New York State, all designed to benefit small or expanding businesses as well as film and TV production companies. We use tax credits and financial incentives to help businesses invest in their workforce, locate in strategic areas and improve their facilities.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses.

So who would make the law and who would enforce it?

The federal government cannot interfere in a state or cities taxation policies, and cities and states would never write laws that disadvantage them.

No idea what you're talking about here. Can you rephrase it?

It's right above you. You said no government at any level should be allowed...........

Okay, not allowed by whom? Who should stop a city or state from offering tax abatements?

I think it's a (rare) proper application of the Commerce Clause, so the federal courts would be the likely authority.

What does the commerce clause have to do with this? The commerce clause basically deals with transactions over state lines. States Rights gives states the ability to tax who and how they desire.

In order for the Supreme Court to hear such a case, somebody would have to fight it through the court systems to get to the Supreme Court costing Lord knows how many thousands of dollars. Who would fight this case and spend their money to do so?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

If you read the article it points out that not only consumers are harmed by Walmart pulling out, but other businesses as well. Walmart being an anchor store draws people to the area where they shop at those smaller stores.

If you have a hat business, not many people will travel 10 or 15 miles out of their way to check out your hat store. But if you have a Walmart that brought them to your mall anyway, they may stop in to see what you have going on there. You may have a dress shop, or perhaps a sports store where you sell guns, bows and arrows, and camping equipment.

It's true Walmart carries many of these times too, but they have a limited selection because they are not specializing in one specific category of merchandise. So if somebody wants a great raincoat for camping, they may not be happy with what Walmart carries which are cheaper products. They may stop at your sporting goods store to see if you carry heavy duty raincoats.

 

[sartre play]

Yep, cities, towns, even states can go "out of business" if they aren't viable. Forcing the matter with coercion doesn't doesn't really help though. In southeastern Missouri, there are counties where 70% of the people rely on government aid. These counties are so dysfunctional that the state has to subsidize most basic services because there's simply no profit in it for private vendors. Do you consider government keeping these communities afloat a good thing?

So the solution is not to try to bring in new businesses and keep the state subsidizing them?

Only under socialism or communism. In a free market, it's up to the people to maintain their own industry and wealth

No, because people cannot do that on an individual basis. That's why we have government officials, so they can collectively maintain a city or state on behalf of all the people.

When government gives specific people or companies exemptions from laws the rest of us have to follow, it's a blatant violation of equal protection. It's bad law.

If that were the case, all taxation is a violation of equal protection. What do you pay more taxes on, a can of soda or a can of beer? What do you pay more taxes on, a candy bar or a pack of cigarettes?

If these deals are so good for the state they should offer them to all companies, not certain ones picked by the state. You don't seem to understand the importance of keeping the government out of capitalism and free market. Or you just don't like capitalism.

Okay, so they offer the same tax rate to all the companies, and then the city can no longer stay afloat because they don't have enough money coming in. That's what you'd like to see?

Ok so these deals really aren't good? You want the state to make bad deals and make other companies pay for them?

Just those with all the lobbying do well?

Wait a minute....... if a city or state offers tax abatements to a certain company to bring business and hundreds or thousands of jobs there, and it doesn't effect the tax rate other businesses are paying, then what's the harm to those other businesses?

If I own Ray's antique shop, and I learn that a major operation is moving in which will bring in more consumers to our area, I think I would benefit from that.

Not only would I benefit from that, but when the city or town needs more tax revenue to keep things going, it's less likely they will be increasing my taxes because of the new revenue from the new business.

This is a business floor plan. Walmart moves into an area. Walmart is what's called an anchor store. Smaller businesses open up near Walmart to take advantage of Walmart's ability to draw in large crowds. I won't be paying anymore in taxes and Walmart will draw new customers that I never had before.

So I guess the question is, who loses when a city gives a business tax breaks?

Ask any small town America what happened to local business after they moved in. not saying wrong or right just stating a fact.

 

[Cellblock2429]

No government, at any level, should be allowed to tailor its laws to cater to specific people or businesses.

So who would make the law and who would enforce it?

The federal government cannot interfere in a state or cities taxation policies, and cities and states would never write laws that disadvantage them.

No idea what you're talking about here. Can you rephrase it?

It's right above you. You said no government at any level should be allowed...........

Okay, not allowed by whom? Who should stop a city or state from offering tax abatements?

I think it's a (rare) proper application of the Commerce Clause, so the federal courts would be the likely authority.

What does the commerce clause have to do with this? The commerce clause basically deals with transactions over state lines. States Rights gives states the ability to tax who and how they desire.

In order for the Supreme Court to hear such a case, somebody would have to fight it through the court systems to get to the Supreme Court costing Lord knows how many thousands of dollars. Who would fight this case and spend their money to do so?

/---/ how many mom and pops did Woolwoths and RH Macy's put out of business back in their hay day? Woolworths had the resources to crush Walmart when they first started expanding but they were over confident, moribund and stubborn to act. Walmart buried them and Kmart. It's called business

 

[Brain357]

And what proof is there of any of that? How do we know any of that even happened? How does Ray know why Walmart does anything? Is he an exec at Walmart? He's just telling silly stories which may or may not be true. Here is a story. Walmart gets lots of corporate welfare to move into a mall. The city spends a lot to create this mall and gives up lots of tax dollars in corp welfare. Walmart then moves ten miles away closing the store in the mall and killing the cities mall investment.

/----/ I don't know, maybe it was a story in the local newspaper.
Walmart to close two stores in advance of Arvada Plaza supercenter ...
www.denverpost.com/2017/06/06/walmart-arvada-plaza-supercenter/

Jun 6, 2017 - Walmart will shutter two stores in Arvada and Wheat Ridge next month before the openingof its new Arvada Plaza supercenter in August.
List of the 154 U.S. stores Walmart is closing - USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/.../01/...walmart-stores-closing/78852898/
Jan 15, 2016 - Closings include 102 Walmart Express, 12 Supercenters, ... Walmart to close 269 stores,shut down 'Express' format. Here is .... Supercenter

Then he should link it. You just buy into silly made up stories with no backing do you?

?----/ You mean silly made up stories like RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and Global Warming ? Nah I don't. Do you?

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

From your link:
While Walmart also opened hundreds of stores around the world last year, keeping its net store count the same, its pullout was devastating for rural communities where smaller retailers had closed their doors when Walmart came to town.

Seems your link discredits your own claims.

 

[Brain357]

Oh and on top of that walmart pays so little its employees are collecting welfare:
1. Wal-Mart
The nation’s largest retail outlet is passing its tax bill down to the American public in more ways than one.
A University of California Berkeley report indicates the corporation’s low-wage jobs were costing the state an estimated $86 million in taxpayer-funded public assistance programs. While boasting the necessity for low-wages, the corporation was essentially handing down costs to taxpayers in the form of publicly-funded health insurance and food assistance programs.

A more blatant example of Wal-Mart’s delight in public funds came through a taxpayer-funded control tower at an airport that houses Wal-Mart’s cargo corporate fleet. According to Bloomberg News, a spending bill approved in 2011 halted measures that would have taken away government-funded controllers for Wal-Mart’s jets in Rogers, Arkansas.

Airports the size of Rogers Municipal Airport in Arkansas typically aren’t required to have their own control towers. But because the airport hosts Wal-Mart’s fleet, ushering in plenty of traffic, it is required to purchase the traffic controller, and pay costs associated with the airport that essentially serves as Wal-Mart’s own public (but really private) airport. The airport is slated to spend $81,000 this year for the tower.

Oh the benefits of corporate welfare.

4 Examples Of Corporate Welfare In Action | Taxpayers for Common Sense

/----/ My first job was minimum wage but I was living at home and I saved every dime to but my first car (a used Karmann Ghia) When I moved out on my own, I needed more money to live on so I found a bartender job where I earned Tips. I made about three times minimum wage. I was attending college part time (paying my own way) and found a job based on my new skills I acquired in college. But I kept my bartender job as well. As my skills improved, I was able to find higher paying jobs and eventually gave up the bartender work. BTW - there were no decent jobs where I grew up so I moved to where the jobs were.

That's great.

So why should Walmart a company making millions receive corporate welfare to create poorly paying jobs that require workers to collect more welfare?

/----/ That is their business model - although somewhat perverted so you can make political points. Walmart does more to help the poor than all Gubmint programs combined. That's why Libs hate them so much.
Why do progressives hate Walmart for low prices and its 3% profit margin but love high-priced Apple and its 24% profit margin? - AEI

Their business model is to collect lots of corporate welfare? They would do fine without all these sweet deals from the government.

/----/ no you dip wad. Walmart's mission statement is “Saving people money so they can live better.” This statement is synonymous to the company's slogan, “Save money. Live better.” How Walmart Makes Money? Understanding Walmart Business Model - Revenues & Profits

Then you agree they don't need corporate welfare. No reason for the gov to try to pick winners and losers.

 

[OnePercenter]

There's no such thing as corporate welfare.

mmmkay

/----/ if the government writes a check to a company in exchange for moving to an area then that is corporate welfare. But if the government simply reduces the tax bill for a set time in exchange for the move it is not welfare.

It's all a subsidy which is corporate welfare.

 

[Brain357]

I mean silly stories made up by Ray with no links or reason to believe they are true.

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

If you read the article it points out that not only consumers are harmed by Walmart pulling out, but other businesses as well. Walmart being an anchor store draws people to the area where they shop at those smaller stores.

If you have a hat business, not many people will travel 10 or 15 miles out of their way to check out your hat store. But if you have a Walmart that brought them to your mall anyway, they may stop in to see what you have going on there. You may have a dress shop, or perhaps a sports store where you sell guns, bows and arrows, and camping equipment.

It's true Walmart carries many of these times too, but they have a limited selection because they are not specializing in one specific category of merchandise. So if somebody wants a great raincoat for camping, they may not be happy with what Walmart carries which are cheaper products. They may stop at your sporting goods store to see if you carry heavy duty raincoats.

It seems you didn't read it:
While Walmart also opened hundreds of stores around the world last year, keeping its net store count the same, its pullout was devastating for rural communities where smaller retailers had closed their doors when Walmart came to town.

 

[Cellblock2429]

There's no such thing as corporate welfare.

mmmkay

/----/ if the government writes a check to a company in exchange for moving to an area then that is corporate welfare. But if the government simply reduces the tax bill for a set time in exchange for the move it is not welfare.

It's all a subsidy which is corporate welfare.

/----/ So letting people keep more of their money is welfare?

 

[Cellblock2429]

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

If you read the article it points out that not only consumers are harmed by Walmart pulling out, but other businesses as well. Walmart being an anchor store draws people to the area where they shop at those smaller stores.

If you have a hat business, not many people will travel 10 or 15 miles out of their way to check out your hat store. But if you have a Walmart that brought them to your mall anyway, they may stop in to see what you have going on there. You may have a dress shop, or perhaps a sports store where you sell guns, bows and arrows, and camping equipment.

It's true Walmart carries many of these times too, but they have a limited selection because they are not specializing in one specific category of merchandise. So if somebody wants a great raincoat for camping, they may not be happy with what Walmart carries which are cheaper products. They may stop at your sporting goods store to see if you carry heavy duty raincoats.

It seems you didn't read it:
While Walmart also opened hundreds of stores around the world last year, keeping its net store count the same, its pullout was devastating for rural communities where smaller retailers had closed their doors when Walmart came to town.

/----/ And when Walmart left the small businesses reopened.

 

[Brain357]

Extortion:
Like other big-box stores, Walmart often uses the threat of closing stores to negotiate better property tax rates. These are called “dark stores,” where retailers use the threat of leaving town to lower property tax rates to what they would be if the store were vacant. After all, if the store moved to a new location just over the town or county line, it would be vacant.
What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

 

[Brain357]

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

If you read the article it points out that not only consumers are harmed by Walmart pulling out, but other businesses as well. Walmart being an anchor store draws people to the area where they shop at those smaller stores.

If you have a hat business, not many people will travel 10 or 15 miles out of their way to check out your hat store. But if you have a Walmart that brought them to your mall anyway, they may stop in to see what you have going on there. You may have a dress shop, or perhaps a sports store where you sell guns, bows and arrows, and camping equipment.

It's true Walmart carries many of these times too, but they have a limited selection because they are not specializing in one specific category of merchandise. So if somebody wants a great raincoat for camping, they may not be happy with what Walmart carries which are cheaper products. They may stop at your sporting goods store to see if you carry heavy duty raincoats.

It seems you didn't read it:
While Walmart also opened hundreds of stores around the world last year, keeping its net store count the same, its pullout was devastating for rural communities where smaller retailers had closed their doors when Walmart came to town.

/----/ And when Walmart left the small businesses reopened.

I don't see that in the link. Please quote.

 

[OnePercenter]

There's no such thing as corporate welfare.

mmmkay

/----/ if the government writes a check to a company in exchange for moving to an area then that is corporate welfare. But if the government simply reduces the tax bill for a set time in exchange for the move it is not welfare.

micromanaging our tax codes for Individuals, is worse and could be considered, legally unethical, from a laissez-fair perspective. Only the right wing, never gets it.

/----/ Oh we get it. But until Washington reforms the tax code this crap will continue. My only issue is with the term Corporate Welfare.

Corporate Welfare is government support or subsidy of private business, such as by tax incentives.

Get it now?

 

[Cellblock2429]

There's no such thing as corporate welfare.

mmmkay

/----/ if the government writes a check to a company in exchange for moving to an area then that is corporate welfare. But if the government simply reduces the tax bill for a set time in exchange for the move it is not welfare.

micromanaging our tax codes for Individuals, is worse and could be considered, legally unethical, from a laissez-fair perspective. Only the right wing, never gets it.

/----/ Oh we get it. But until Washington reforms the tax code this crap will continue. My only issue is with the term Corporate Welfare.

Corporate Welfare is government support or subsidy of private business, such as by tax incentives.

Get it now?

/----/ So to repeat my self for the libtard challenged: Oh we get it. But until Washington reforms the tax code this crap will continue. My only issue is with the term Corporate Welfare.

 

[OnePercenter]

Okay, so they offer the same tax rate to all the companies, and then the city can no longer stay afloat because they don't have enough money coming in. That's what you'd like to see?

Ok so these deals really aren't good? You want the state to make bad deals and make other companies pay for them?

Just those with all the lobbying do well?

Wait a minute....... if a city or state offers tax abatements to a certain company to bring business and hundreds or thousands of jobs there, and it doesn't effect the tax rate other businesses are paying, then what's the harm to those other businesses?

If I own Ray's antique shop, and I learn that a major operation is moving in which will bring in more consumers to our area, I think I would benefit from that.

Not only would I benefit from that, but when the city or town needs more tax revenue to keep things going, it's less likely they will be increasing my taxes because of the new revenue from the new business.

This is a business floor plan. Walmart moves into an area. Walmart is what's called an anchor store. Smaller businesses open up near Walmart to take advantage of Walmart's ability to draw in large crowds. I won't be paying anymore in taxes and Walmart will draw new customers that I never had before.

So I guess the question is, who loses when a city gives a business tax breaks?

You just said they can't stay afloat if they offer the deal to everyone. Yet you claim all these great things are coming from this deal. If there are so many great things then they can offer the deal to everyone. Certainly everyone getting this great deal is better than just one great deal.

So you give walmart a great deal and now they have all the advantages of being a huge company as well as the gov has picked them to win. So what happens:
Opinion: Study shows Walmart kills small biz

Or you throw a bunch of money at solyndra and oops, they go under. The government should not be picking winners and losers.

Since you are not a capitalist, what is it you are? What is better than free market capitalism?

Solyndra is an apple and oranges comparison. Solyndra was political and political only. It didn't benefit society or the general public. It only bought votes for the Democrat party.

No, they cannot offer the deal to everybody. It's like anything else, the more you buy, the cheaper it is.

Mom and Pop have their beverage store and pay X amount in taxes. Mom and pop have about four workers. They may not be great paying jobs, but they are jobs.

A company moves in down the street from mom and pop and opens up a northeast warehousing operation. They are going to have 60 docks, they are going to employ about 200 people, they get a tax break from the city to build their warehouse. It doesn't hurt mom and pop one bit.

Okay, so why don't we lower everybody's taxes so that mom and pop pay the same as the new warehouse? Because if they did that, then the new warehouse operation would not be moving there. They would move somewhere that's making a better offer and then you're back to square one. Mom and Pop would still be paying the same taxation, and likely see an increase down the road when the city needs more money.

Solyndra is the government picking winner and losers. You think corporate welfare isn't political? It is lobbyists making deals with politicians for preferential treatment. Yes it is all political. And it is all bad capitalism.

Playing devils advocate; Why shouldn't we financially help business like most other governments?

 

[OnePercenter]

Correct, I don't get it. So how are other businesses paying for this deal?

Well now a small business has a big competitor not paying taxes. The small business goes under. I would say that is really paying...

In most cases that's not true. If anything, smaller businesses are at an advantage because of larger businesses. That and again, a huge business moving in doesn't mean competition in most cases.

You have used Walmart and Amazon as your examples. They both compete with almost everyone. They have both run many businesses out. You seem to not be in the real world.

A business run as a business will succeed, a business run like a socialist entitlement program will fail every time… Rightly so.

Fuck the village/collective… Only thing worse than nationalism is globalism

Corporate welfare is a socialist entitlement program.

Nice try. Corporate welfare places monies in profit to private companies not collective or government ownership.

 

[OnePercenter]

Ok so these deals really aren't good? You want the state to make bad deals and make other companies pay for them?

Just those with all the lobbying do well?

Wait a minute....... if a city or state offers tax abatements to a certain company to bring business and hundreds or thousands of jobs there, and it doesn't effect the tax rate other businesses are paying, then what's the harm to those other businesses?

If I own Ray's antique shop, and I learn that a major operation is moving in which will bring in more consumers to our area, I think I would benefit from that.

Not only would I benefit from that, but when the city or town needs more tax revenue to keep things going, it's less likely they will be increasing my taxes because of the new revenue from the new business.

This is a business floor plan. Walmart moves into an area. Walmart is what's called an anchor store. Smaller businesses open up near Walmart to take advantage of Walmart's ability to draw in large crowds. I won't be paying anymore in taxes and Walmart will draw new customers that I never had before.

So I guess the question is, who loses when a city gives a business tax breaks?

You just said they can't stay afloat if they offer the deal to everyone. Yet you claim all these great things are coming from this deal. If there are so many great things then they can offer the deal to everyone. Certainly everyone getting this great deal is better than just one great deal.

So you give walmart a great deal and now they have all the advantages of being a huge company as well as the gov has picked them to win. So what happens:
Opinion: Study shows Walmart kills small biz

Or you throw a bunch of money at solyndra and oops, they go under. The government should not be picking winners and losers.

Since you are not a capitalist, what is it you are? What is better than free market capitalism?

Solyndra is an apple and oranges comparison. Solyndra was political and political only. It didn't benefit society or the general public. It only bought votes for the Democrat party.

No, they cannot offer the deal to everybody. It's like anything else, the more you buy, the cheaper it is.

Mom and Pop have their beverage store and pay X amount in taxes. Mom and pop have about four workers. They may not be great paying jobs, but they are jobs.

A company moves in down the street from mom and pop and opens up a northeast warehousing operation. They are going to have 60 docks, they are going to employ about 200 people, they get a tax break from the city to build their warehouse. It doesn't hurt mom and pop one bit.

Okay, so why don't we lower everybody's taxes so that mom and pop pay the same as the new warehouse? Because if they did that, then the new warehouse operation would not be moving there. They would move somewhere that's making a better offer and then you're back to square one. Mom and Pop would still be paying the same taxation, and likely see an increase down the road when the city needs more money.

Solyndra is the government picking winner and losers. You think corporate welfare isn't political? It is lobbyists making deals with politicians for preferential treatment. Yes it is all political. And it is all bad capitalism.

Solyndra was not picking winners and losers because Solyndra was a loser anyway. Solyndra didn't benefit the public not one iota. Therefore it was just DumBama kissing the asses of environmentalist.

If the Chinese government hadn't subsidized competing (their) technology, Solyndra would have done well.

George Kaiser Family Foundation,
U.S. Venture Partners,
CMEA Ventures,
Redpoint Ventures,
Virgin Green Fund,
Madrone Capital Partners,
RockPort Capital Partners,
Argonaut Private Equity,
Masdar and Artis Capital Management.
The US tax payer

ALL lost because of foreign subsidy.

 

[OnePercenter]

mmmkay

/----/ if the government writes a check to a company in exchange for moving to an area then that is corporate welfare. But if the government simply reduces the tax bill for a set time in exchange for the move it is not welfare.

micromanaging our tax codes for Individuals, is worse and could be considered, legally unethical, from a laissez-fair perspective. Only the right wing, never gets it.

/----/ Oh we get it. But until Washington reforms the tax code this crap will continue. My only issue is with the term Corporate Welfare.

Corporate Welfare is government support or subsidy of private business, such as by tax incentives.

Get it now?

/----/ So to repeat my self for the libtard challenged: Oh we get it. But until Washington reforms the tax code this crap will continue. My only issue is with the term Corporate Welfare.

Corporate Welfare is government support or subsidy of private business, such as by tax incentives.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What Happens When Walmart Decides To Close A Store?

Did you read that article???

Yes I did. Why do you ask?

Because it points out all the real damage done by the artificial incentives. I assume that you posted it because you believe it supports your position, but I'm not seeing how.

If you read the article it points out that not only consumers are harmed by Walmart pulling out, but other businesses as well. Walmart being an anchor store draws people to the area where they shop at those smaller stores.

If you have a hat business, not many people will travel 10 or 15 miles out of their way to check out your hat store. But if you have a Walmart that brought them to your mall anyway, they may stop in to see what you have going on there. You may have a dress shop, or perhaps a sports store where you sell guns, bows and arrows, and camping equipment.

It's true Walmart carries many of these times too, but they have a limited selection because they are not specializing in one specific category of merchandise. So if somebody wants a great raincoat for camping, they may not be happy with what Walmart carries which are cheaper products. They may stop at your sporting goods store to see if you carry heavy duty raincoats.

It seems you didn't read it:
While Walmart also opened hundreds of stores around the world last year, keeping its net store count the same, its pullout was devastating for rural communities where smaller retailers had closed their doors when Walmart came to town.

Which is what I said. Walmart does close some stores but also opens others. That's besides the fact Walmart doesn't really close anything down, the customers do.