Could Basic Income work in the US?

[jon_berzerk]

it didnt work with the first settlers

would have about the same effect today

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well I've discussed subjects with you before and of course, read things you wrote to other people. I think the hardest thing for us all to accept is that machines and technology are taking our place in the work world, your profession no exception.

With the help of various online courses and businesses that have online teaching, it's only a matter of time before schools are a thing of the past. Of course I'm not talking tomorrow, next week, next year or ten years, but I can't see public schools being in operation let's say 50 years from now; at least not in the capacity they are today.

This is why home schooling can be done by a person with an 8th grade education as well as a college graduate. They are not actually doing the teaching.

I've always said that if there are two things in my life I am fortunate enough to have, it's being born in this great country, and at a time to witness and experience this technological revolution. Technology has been very beneficial in many ways, but very destructive in others.

If you had any real experience with students you would know that most have a serious problem following examples, and have to be walked through the process of solving math problems step-by-step. Virtual schooling is a poor substitute for actual teaching. Most of the the on-line courses I have seen are not intensive enough to prevent students from just simply guessing multiple choice answers, which does not indicate they have any idea of what they are doing. Also, the few programs that require students to actually show their thought processes are too poorly designed to account for various approaches to solving problems and will tell a student they are incorrect, but they are correct. Formatting the answers is always a major issue. All three of my children have had classes that used programs on-line for their instruction in high school and college, and they all hated them because of these errors.

I can understand that, but I also think that a parent can detect those problems, and possibly address it better than a teacher. After all, who knows your kid better than you do?

What I think you are talking about here is technique. There we can agree. While I've never been a school teacher, I've taught music at home and music stores one on one. I can't imagine trying to do that in a class setting.

In the later part of doing that, I started to have kids approach me with things they learned on YouTube. Sometimes they could play the part just like the guy on the video, but had no idea why they were playing what they were playing. Or they would learn parts of a song completely wrong because the guy on the video had no clue what he was doing either.

It's much more miserable trying to teach somebody that self-taught either by themselves or using videos than it is somebody that knew nothing about the guitar. Once somebody is taught wrong, it's time consuming trying to "un-teach" them the wrong way of doing things. But on the other hand, I've had the same experience with kids that had crummy teachers in their past. I'm sure school teachers have faced the same problems.

No, I don't think parents can detect the problems with those programs. If they could, they would not use them. Maybe it is because I teach math, but I have has very few student tell me that their parents actually helped them with their assignment. Considering the thousands of students I have taught, that is truly sad. If they do get help, it is usually from a sibling or cousin, and probably more than half of the time the instruction is wrong.

To me, math is a talent more than a subject. That's probably why you don't get a lot of parental help with it. Years ago my company sent me to electronics school, and electronics is all math. Much of it I got, but there were parts that left me sitting there with my mouth open.

You are completely mistaken. Math is a subject as any, but definitely being intelligent also plays a role.

Anyway, college classes could easily be computerized. It could be a robot talking and no one would notice - that's the level of interaction that generally takes place.

You are seeing more online colleges these days, and no indication that it's going to stop anytime soon. College is a business and like all businesses, tries to maximize profit. I don't know anything other than what I read, but the way I understand it, the more online college you have, the less an employer values your education.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Well I've discussed subjects with you before and of course, read things you wrote to other people. I think the hardest thing for us all to accept is that machines and technology are taking our place in the work world, your profession no exception.

With the help of various online courses and businesses that have online teaching, it's only a matter of time before schools are a thing of the past. Of course I'm not talking tomorrow, next week, next year or ten years, but I can't see public schools being in operation let's say 50 years from now; at least not in the capacity they are today.

This is why home schooling can be done by a person with an 8th grade education as well as a college graduate. They are not actually doing the teaching.

I've always said that if there are two things in my life I am fortunate enough to have, it's being born in this great country, and at a time to witness and experience this technological revolution. Technology has been very beneficial in many ways, but very destructive in others.

If you had any real experience with students you would know that most have a serious problem following examples, and have to be walked through the process of solving math problems step-by-step. Virtual schooling is a poor substitute for actual teaching. Most of the the on-line courses I have seen are not intensive enough to prevent students from just simply guessing multiple choice answers, which does not indicate they have any idea of what they are doing. Also, the few programs that require students to actually show their thought processes are too poorly designed to account for various approaches to solving problems and will tell a student they are incorrect, but they are correct. Formatting the answers is always a major issue. All three of my children have had classes that used programs on-line for their instruction in high school and college, and they all hated them because of these errors.

I can understand that, but I also think that a parent can detect those problems, and possibly address it better than a teacher. After all, who knows your kid better than you do?

What I think you are talking about here is technique. There we can agree. While I've never been a school teacher, I've taught music at home and music stores one on one. I can't imagine trying to do that in a class setting.

In the later part of doing that, I started to have kids approach me with things they learned on YouTube. Sometimes they could play the part just like the guy on the video, but had no idea why they were playing what they were playing. Or they would learn parts of a song completely wrong because the guy on the video had no clue what he was doing either.

It's much more miserable trying to teach somebody that self-taught either by themselves or using videos than it is somebody that knew nothing about the guitar. Once somebody is taught wrong, it's time consuming trying to "un-teach" them the wrong way of doing things. But on the other hand, I've had the same experience with kids that had crummy teachers in their past. I'm sure school teachers have faced the same problems.

No, I don't think parents can detect the problems with those programs. If they could, they would not use them. Maybe it is because I teach math, but I have has very few student tell me that their parents actually helped them with their assignment. Considering the thousands of students I have taught, that is truly sad. If they do get help, it is usually from a sibling or cousin, and probably more than half of the time the instruction is wrong.

To me, math is a talent more than a subject. That's probably why you don't get a lot of parental help with it. Years ago my company sent me to electronics school, and electronics is all math. Much of it I got, but there were parts that left me sitting there with my mouth open.

You are completely mistaken. Math is a subject as any, but definitely being intelligent also plays a role.

Anyway, college classes could easily be computerized. It could be a robot talking and no one would notice - that's the level of interaction that generally takes place.

I don't know where you are using as the source of this information, but that was definitely not the case anywhere I have attended.

 

[Norman]

If you had any real experience with students you would know that most have a serious problem following examples, and have to be walked through the process of solving math problems step-by-step. Virtual schooling is a poor substitute for actual teaching. Most of the the on-line courses I have seen are not intensive enough to prevent students from just simply guessing multiple choice answers, which does not indicate they have any idea of what they are doing. Also, the few programs that require students to actually show their thought processes are too poorly designed to account for various approaches to solving problems and will tell a student they are incorrect, but they are correct. Formatting the answers is always a major issue. All three of my children have had classes that used programs on-line for their instruction in high school and college, and they all hated them because of these errors.

I can understand that, but I also think that a parent can detect those problems, and possibly address it better than a teacher. After all, who knows your kid better than you do?

What I think you are talking about here is technique. There we can agree. While I've never been a school teacher, I've taught music at home and music stores one on one. I can't imagine trying to do that in a class setting.

In the later part of doing that, I started to have kids approach me with things they learned on YouTube. Sometimes they could play the part just like the guy on the video, but had no idea why they were playing what they were playing. Or they would learn parts of a song completely wrong because the guy on the video had no clue what he was doing either.

It's much more miserable trying to teach somebody that self-taught either by themselves or using videos than it is somebody that knew nothing about the guitar. Once somebody is taught wrong, it's time consuming trying to "un-teach" them the wrong way of doing things. But on the other hand, I've had the same experience with kids that had crummy teachers in their past. I'm sure school teachers have faced the same problems.

No, I don't think parents can detect the problems with those programs. If they could, they would not use them. Maybe it is because I teach math, but I have has very few student tell me that their parents actually helped them with their assignment. Considering the thousands of students I have taught, that is truly sad. If they do get help, it is usually from a sibling or cousin, and probably more than half of the time the instruction is wrong.

To me, math is a talent more than a subject. That's probably why you don't get a lot of parental help with it. Years ago my company sent me to electronics school, and electronics is all math. Much of it I got, but there were parts that left me sitting there with my mouth open.

You are completely mistaken. Math is a subject as any, but definitely being intelligent also plays a role.

Anyway, college classes could easily be computerized. It could be a robot talking and no one would notice - that's the level of interaction that generally takes place.

You are seeing more online colleges these days, and no indication that it's going to stop anytime soon. College is a business and like all businesses, tries to maximize profit. I don't know anything other than what I read, but the way I understand it, the more online college you have, the less an employer values your education.

I think you are conflating online colleges with online education.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well I've discussed subjects with you before and of course, read things you wrote to other people. I think the hardest thing for us all to accept is that machines and technology are taking our place in the work world, your profession no exception.

With the help of various online courses and businesses that have online teaching, it's only a matter of time before schools are a thing of the past. Of course I'm not talking tomorrow, next week, next year or ten years, but I can't see public schools being in operation let's say 50 years from now; at least not in the capacity they are today.

This is why home schooling can be done by a person with an 8th grade education as well as a college graduate. They are not actually doing the teaching.

I've always said that if there are two things in my life I am fortunate enough to have, it's being born in this great country, and at a time to witness and experience this technological revolution. Technology has been very beneficial in many ways, but very destructive in others.

If you had any real experience with students you would know that most have a serious problem following examples, and have to be walked through the process of solving math problems step-by-step. Virtual schooling is a poor substitute for actual teaching. Most of the the on-line courses I have seen are not intensive enough to prevent students from just simply guessing multiple choice answers, which does not indicate they have any idea of what they are doing. Also, the few programs that require students to actually show their thought processes are too poorly designed to account for various approaches to solving problems and will tell a student they are incorrect, but they are correct. Formatting the answers is always a major issue. All three of my children have had classes that used programs on-line for their instruction in high school and college, and they all hated them because of these errors.

I can understand that, but I also think that a parent can detect those problems, and possibly address it better than a teacher. After all, who knows your kid better than you do?

What I think you are talking about here is technique. There we can agree. While I've never been a school teacher, I've taught music at home and music stores one on one. I can't imagine trying to do that in a class setting.

In the later part of doing that, I started to have kids approach me with things they learned on YouTube. Sometimes they could play the part just like the guy on the video, but had no idea why they were playing what they were playing. Or they would learn parts of a song completely wrong because the guy on the video had no clue what he was doing either.

It's much more miserable trying to teach somebody that self-taught either by themselves or using videos than it is somebody that knew nothing about the guitar. Once somebody is taught wrong, it's time consuming trying to "un-teach" them the wrong way of doing things. But on the other hand, I've had the same experience with kids that had crummy teachers in their past. I'm sure school teachers have faced the same problems.

No, I don't think parents can detect the problems with those programs. If they could, they would not use them. Maybe it is because I teach math, but I have has very few student tell me that their parents actually helped them with their assignment. Considering the thousands of students I have taught, that is truly sad. If they do get help, it is usually from a sibling or cousin, and probably more than half of the time the instruction is wrong.

To me, math is a talent more than a subject. That's probably why you don't get a lot of parental help with it. Years ago my company sent me to electronics school, and electronics is all math. Much of it I got, but there were parts that left me sitting there with my mouth open.

So why didn't you get a computer program to teach you?

Well this was back in the 80's and computers really weren't around back then. I do wish we had this wonderful internet when I was a kid in school though; not to replace a teacher, but to learn things outside of the classroom.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If you had any real experience with students you would know that most have a serious problem following examples, and have to be walked through the process of solving math problems step-by-step. Virtual schooling is a poor substitute for actual teaching. Most of the the on-line courses I have seen are not intensive enough to prevent students from just simply guessing multiple choice answers, which does not indicate they have any idea of what they are doing. Also, the few programs that require students to actually show their thought processes are too poorly designed to account for various approaches to solving problems and will tell a student they are incorrect, but they are correct. Formatting the answers is always a major issue. All three of my children have had classes that used programs on-line for their instruction in high school and college, and they all hated them because of these errors.

I can understand that, but I also think that a parent can detect those problems, and possibly address it better than a teacher. After all, who knows your kid better than you do?

What I think you are talking about here is technique. There we can agree. While I've never been a school teacher, I've taught music at home and music stores one on one. I can't imagine trying to do that in a class setting.

In the later part of doing that, I started to have kids approach me with things they learned on YouTube. Sometimes they could play the part just like the guy on the video, but had no idea why they were playing what they were playing. Or they would learn parts of a song completely wrong because the guy on the video had no clue what he was doing either.

It's much more miserable trying to teach somebody that self-taught either by themselves or using videos than it is somebody that knew nothing about the guitar. Once somebody is taught wrong, it's time consuming trying to "un-teach" them the wrong way of doing things. But on the other hand, I've had the same experience with kids that had crummy teachers in their past. I'm sure school teachers have faced the same problems.

No, I don't think parents can detect the problems with those programs. If they could, they would not use them. Maybe it is because I teach math, but I have has very few student tell me that their parents actually helped them with their assignment. Considering the thousands of students I have taught, that is truly sad. If they do get help, it is usually from a sibling or cousin, and probably more than half of the time the instruction is wrong.

To me, math is a talent more than a subject. That's probably why you don't get a lot of parental help with it. Years ago my company sent me to electronics school, and electronics is all math. Much of it I got, but there were parts that left me sitting there with my mouth open.

You are completely mistaken. Math is a subject as any, but definitely being intelligent also plays a role.

Anyway, college classes could easily be computerized. It could be a robot talking and no one would notice - that's the level of interaction that generally takes place.

You are seeing more online colleges these days, and no indication that it's going to stop anytime soon. College is a business and like all businesses, tries to maximize profit. I don't know anything other than what I read, but the way I understand it, the more online college you have, the less an employer values your education.

Bingo! Daughter-in-law was a surrogate mother and took her classes on-line and received a degree in criminal justice. She is a shift manager at McDonald's because no one will give her the time of day, much less a job. The only reason she has that job is prior experience in high school.

 

[Wilbur Right]

. I do wish we had this wonderful internet when I was a kid in school though; not to replace a teacher, but to learn things outside of the classroom.

Don't worry about it. You've had access to the internet for years now. And you are still dumber than a box of rocks. No reason to think earlier access would have changed anything.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I can understand that, but I also think that a parent can detect those problems, and possibly address it better than a teacher. After all, who knows your kid better than you do?

What I think you are talking about here is technique. There we can agree. While I've never been a school teacher, I've taught music at home and music stores one on one. I can't imagine trying to do that in a class setting.

In the later part of doing that, I started to have kids approach me with things they learned on YouTube. Sometimes they could play the part just like the guy on the video, but had no idea why they were playing what they were playing. Or they would learn parts of a song completely wrong because the guy on the video had no clue what he was doing either.

It's much more miserable trying to teach somebody that self-taught either by themselves or using videos than it is somebody that knew nothing about the guitar. Once somebody is taught wrong, it's time consuming trying to "un-teach" them the wrong way of doing things. But on the other hand, I've had the same experience with kids that had crummy teachers in their past. I'm sure school teachers have faced the same problems.

No, I don't think parents can detect the problems with those programs. If they could, they would not use them. Maybe it is because I teach math, but I have has very few student tell me that their parents actually helped them with their assignment. Considering the thousands of students I have taught, that is truly sad. If they do get help, it is usually from a sibling or cousin, and probably more than half of the time the instruction is wrong.

To me, math is a talent more than a subject. That's probably why you don't get a lot of parental help with it. Years ago my company sent me to electronics school, and electronics is all math. Much of it I got, but there were parts that left me sitting there with my mouth open.

You are completely mistaken. Math is a subject as any, but definitely being intelligent also plays a role.

Anyway, college classes could easily be computerized. It could be a robot talking and no one would notice - that's the level of interaction that generally takes place.

You are seeing more online colleges these days, and no indication that it's going to stop anytime soon. College is a business and like all businesses, tries to maximize profit. I don't know anything other than what I read, but the way I understand it, the more online college you have, the less an employer values your education.

Bingo! Daughter-in-law was a surrogate mother and took her classes on-line and received a degree in criminal justice. She is a shift manager at McDonald's because no one will give her the time of day, much less a job. The only reason she has that job is prior experience in high school.

Yeah but that too is a rough field to get into because so many are interested in it.

My friends son wanted to be in law enforcement. He went to college for a couple of years because he wanted to work for the federal government. They wouldn't give him the time of day. So he went out for a police officer and it was a rough struggle. He finally made it, but it took years to get what he wanted. He even went to the police academy and paid for it himself to try and have an edge on other applicants. Apparently it worked.

 

[Norman]

. I do wish we had this wonderful internet when I was a kid in school though; not to replace a teacher, but to learn things outside of the classroom.

Don't worry about it. You've had access to the internet for years now. And you are still dumber than a box of rocks. No reason to think earlier access would have changed anything.

Regressive projection in action?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it didnt work with the first settlers

would have about the same effect today

What flaws do you see in the idea?

 

[SwimExpert]

Why would a couple making a joint income of $40,800 per year even want to wok?

Because that don't buy much.

How a Family of Four Manages to Live Well on Just $14,000 Per Year

You really need to learn the difference between normal and extraordinary circumstances.

The idea that $400 a month for food is going to be an adequate budget is downright laughable. They have access to a local food co-op for cheap produce. Lucky them. It would be impossible for the vast majority of people to achieve such a food budget without forcing themselves to go hungry. I have a $300 a month food budget just for myself. And I mostly live off of chicken and rice. Groceries are expensive.

Additionally, they have no car payments, which is nice, but once again not feasible for many people.

They have no rent or mortgage. While husband was still in the military they got a cheap foreclosure in the midst of the economic crash, and paid cash with husband's saved combat pay. Nice for them, not feasible for most other people.

So thank you for proving my point. It don't buy much. The only way these people are able to pull it off is because they have none of the standard living expenses the rest of us have, and they live in an area where the cost of living is already below the norm.

 

[SwimExpert]

I understand that, but look at the money we are already paying now.

See, that's the problem that so many stubborn fools can't get past. They're so damned focused on pure ideology goals that they've lost all ability to be pragmatic or socially functional enough to work within a group to generate actionable solutions. They can't wrap their heads around a path to substantially improve a bad situation. All they can imagine is beating someone over the head because they're pissed about the bad situation.

 

[SwimExpert]

it didnt work with the first settlers

Then again, neither did seat belt laws. Different times, different circumstances.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why would a couple making a joint income of $40,800 per year even want to wok?

Because that don't buy much.

How a Family of Four Manages to Live Well on Just $14,000 Per Year

They took advantage of Nevada's declining housing market to score a cheap foreclosure.

By the time Wagasky's husband came home from Iraq, they had managed to scrape together the $30,000 they needed for a downpayment on a home.

"But we decided the best option would be not to have a mortgage payment at all," she said. "We found a fixer-upper that didn't have a kitchen ... and we paid cash."

Price tag: $28,000. With the leftover cash, they were able to finish the kitchen and install wood flooring throughout the house.






People never get the full fucking story from you do they? Only your fantasy version.

You think they could live on 14000 a year if they paid 800 rent or housepayment? Fuck no.

Why would a couple making a joint income of $40,800 per year even want to wok?

Because that don't buy much.

How a Family of Four Manages to Live Well on Just $14,000 Per Year

You really need to learn the difference between normal and extraordinary circumstances.

The idea that $400 a month for food is going to be an adequate budget is downright laughable. They have access to a local food co-op for cheap produce. Lucky them. It would be impossible for the vast majority of people to achieve such a food budget without forcing themselves to go hungry. I have a $300 a month food budget just for myself. And I mostly live off of chicken and rice. Groceries are expensive.

Additionally, they have no car payments, which is nice, but once again not feasible for many people.

They have no rent or mortgage. While husband was still in the military they got a cheap foreclosure in the midst of the economic crash, and paid cash with husband's saved combat pay. Nice for them, not feasible for most other people.

So thank you for proving my point. It don't buy much. The only way these people are able to pull it off is because they have none of the standard living expenses the rest of us have, and they live in an area where the cost of living is already below the norm.

You don't know how to shop or a fat ass I can live off of $25 bucks a week in food if I wanted to

Dinner =$2.50 at walmart x 7= $17.50

Brown bag lunch (lunch meat and bread) $5

Some cupcakes for breakfast= $2

Total $25 bucks

 

[SwimExpert]

You don't know how to shop or a fat ass I can live off of $25 bucks a week in food if I wanted to

Did you not hear me when I said that I mostly live off of chicken and rice? Groceries are just fucking expensive where I live. Chicken can be more than $6 a pound a lot of times.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You don't know how to shop or a fat ass I can live off of $25 bucks a week in food if I wanted to

Did you not hear me when I said that I mostly live off of chicken and rice? Groceries are just fucking expensive where I live. Chicken can be more than $6 a pound a lot of times.

Who's fault is that? Stop voting for democrats .


Marie calender has chicken and rice T.V. dinners and it's still $2.50 around here at Walmart, I know how to shop

.

 

[SwimExpert]

You don't know how to shop or a fat ass I can live off of $25 bucks a week in food if I wanted to

Did you not hear me when I said that I mostly live off of chicken and rice? Groceries are just fucking expensive where I live. Chicken can be more than $6 a pound a lot of times.

Who's fault is that? Stop voting for democrats .


Marie calender has chicken and rice T.V. dinners and it's still $2.50 around here at Walmart, I know how to shop

.

1 - Democrats don't set grocery prices. The grocery stores do. It's called a free market. Costs of living always vary.

2 - There is no Walmart nearby.

3 - I don't shop at Walmart. Fuck that trash.

4 - I don't eat boxed meals. I eat real food.

 

[BluesLegend]

OP you can't fix stupid, it doesn't matter how much money you gift some people they will just blow it and not be able to pay their bills.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You don't know how to shop or a fat ass I can live off of $25 bucks a week in food if I wanted to

Did you not hear me when I said that I mostly live off of chicken and rice? Groceries are just fucking expensive where I live. Chicken can be more than $6 a pound a lot of times.

Who's fault is that? Stop voting for democrats .


Marie calender has chicken and rice T.V. dinners and it's still $2.50 around here at Walmart, I know how to shop

.

1 - Democrats don't set grocery prices. The grocery stores do. It's called a free market. Costs of living always vary.

2 - There is no Walmart nearby.

3 - I don't shop at Walmart. Fuck that trash.

4 - I don't eat boxed meals. I eat real food.

Well........Democrats do set prices in a sense.

When we started to burn up our food supply to create ethanol, that's when prices really started to rise. We continue to do so today and that's why prices are still high.

It doesn't matter to the environmentalists though. Even though ethanol is more polluting than oil, it's using less oil and that's all they care about.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

OP you can't fix stupid, it doesn't matter how much money you gift some people they will just blow it and not be able to pay their bills.

Yes, but with a flat check system, they have nothing to complain about and it would stop the Democrats from pandering to them by promising this to help them out or that to help them out.

I remember when I was a child back in the 60's and my father and I were driving through a rough area of town. I told my father I wish I had a million dollars (which was a lot of money at the time) to give to these people so they didn't have to live like that. My father smiled at my innocence and said, you can give each one of these people a million dollars, and within a couple years or less, they will be right back here where they are today.