Creationists

[UltimateReality]

Let's just switch a few words around here and see what happens...

Just a few things.

1.) No person on this planet has any concrete evidence on whether or not evolution is really responsible for all the current species. Totally up in the air.
2.) If a evolution exists, no one has ever witnessed a modern example of it.
3.) If you claim that evolution does indeed exist and that you know specifically that it caused this or that in a species, you are simply just referencing man-made ideas about what might have happened, and this just leads you back to square one.

In summary, what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to the origins of life, Evolution has no clue how it all began or even speculates about who the first common ancestor is. Everything is just speculation. And that's a fact.

Sometimes there are just things that we don't know, and will likely not know for a very, very long time.......
.
.
.

"The resolution of the debate about the creative powers of natural selection is dead simple and utterly trivial to figure out.

1) Natural selection throws stuff out. Throwing stuff out has no creative power.

2) Existing biological information, mixed and matched, can be filtered by natural selection, as in sexual reproduction, but nothing inherently new is created.

3) Random errors can produce survivability quotients, but only in circumstances in which overall functional degradation supports survival in a pathological environment (e.g., bacterial antibiotic resistance), and only given massive probabilistic resources and a few trivial mutational events capable of producing the survival advantage.

4) Random errors are inherently entropic, and the more complex a functionally-integrated system becomes, the more destructive random errors become. Anyone with any experience in even the most elementary engineering enterprise knows this.

Yet, we are expected by Darwinists to believe that throwing a sufficient number of monkey wrenches into the complex machinery of living systems, over a long enough period of time, can turn a microbe into Mozart.

This is transparent lunacy." From Uncommon Descent

 

[UltimateReality]

Nope the smartest person in the world today is not hawking it's a woman named Marilyn Mach vos Savant. Her I.Q. is 220. She is married to the man that designed the artificial heart.

Personally I feel sorry for hawking because of his condition but he has accomplished nothing. He is glorified because of his condition and an atheist and his study of black holes and he supposedly discovered black holes leak matter putting into doubt whether black holes are what they were once thought to be. The science community can't agree whether black holes even exist.

I feel hawking has taken too many drugs for his condition.

There is no way to measure a 220 I Q. Hawkings accomplishments are no fluke:

Stephen William Hawking, CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA (born 8 January 1942) is a British theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and author. His key scientific works to date have included providing, with Roger Penrose, theorems regarding gravitational singularities in the framework of general relativity, and the theoretical prediction that black holes should emit radiation, which is today known as Hawking radiation (or sometimes as Bekenstein–Hawking radiation).

He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a lifetime member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, and in 2009 was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States. Hawking was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge between 1979 and 2009. Subsequently, he became research director at the university's Centre for Theoretical Cosmology.



I believe he would make my list of brains qualified to make an informed opinion of the existance of god.

Now on to a subject you obviously personally know nothing about.... drugs.

Drugs can clearly be abused. Of that there should be no doubt. That said much of the knowledge of and participation in human inquest of our environment and the human condition has involved risk by those explorers. Reaching out into the un known requires a state of not "knowing" at times like a baby...an infant ..does not know..with an open un preprogrammed mind. Some drugs can be a benefit in removing inhabitions to that end.

LSD for one example can be quite helpful in becoming more enlightened as it opens the minds ability to explore more possible ideas than the brain of a maturing human can do on it's own. Our "normal" experiences build up walls to learning as we adopt strategies for physical self preservation and "getting along" in society. LSD temporarily releases those learned responsibilities allowing the brain to move freely in the theoretical...making associations not possible under "normal" conditions. Stating that having experienced such free thought as a disqualifier is stupid. That is like stating that a proffesional aircraft test pilot has no business driving a fork lift in a warehouse. That stated.. LSD is not for everybody. Some people are more fragile mentally than others and the release of the inhibitions that safely glue thier lives together can be more than disturbing..even permanently and fatally. I don't recommend the ingestion of LSD to anyone before an honest evaluation of the risk of having any possible thought or nightmare vision pop into thier head. For those of stronger mental stuff..I say go for it. The mental experiences can be the most enlightening of your life. Unlike the common sleeping "dream" state where most people do not remember what they saw..with LSD you will remember vividly and be able to take your stunning realizations back into reality for future use.

Sorry fella you are once again wrong. Hawking's I.Q. is not known but it has been suggested to be around 180 and Einsteins Was suggested to be around 190.


Like i said Hawking's accomplishments are no comparison to Einsteins,Mendels,and Newtons.

Under evolutionary theory, Hawkins should have been pitched at birth or hunted and eaten. You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals so let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel.

 

[UltimateReality]

By the way huggy none of these intelligent people can prove or disprove God's existence so what is your point ?

You are so bitter about God you remind me of a Dawkins or Hawking student mainly because of their atheistic views.

It just pisses you off to think intelliget people believe in creation doesn't it ?

I have no less hatred for the Romans and Greeks and those before them that persecuted and murdered the thoughts and lives of the free thinkers of those ages.

So I'm going to ASSume your hatred includes the atheistic governments of the 20th century that murdered millions of people, including one notorious guy that thought he could help natural selection along by getting rid of everyone that wasn't blond haired and blue eyed?

 

[UltimateReality]

IQ is neither a definitive number (you can get different IQ numbers from the same person depending on different factors) nor a true measurement of intelligence.

That is true but she kept taking tests and the her I.Q. kept getting higher and higher.

Oh, I don't doubt that IQ can be a decent indicator of general intelligence, and therefor the woman is truly smart. It's just a very inexact measurement, at best, which makes it not very authoritative when trying to determine the smartest person (ignoring my other point about the inability to test everyone).

You and Huggy are engaging in the "No True Scottsman Fallacy." This is a form of the "Moving the Goalpost Fallacy."

 

[UltimateReality]

Weed isn't a drug it's a plant, which has never killed anyone unlike Aspirin and alcohol. In most religious and metaphysical belief systems once researched and interpreted more properly than what you've likely been told, the cannabis is the Goddess, Venus, whose color is green, the shiva, the sativa. In Christianity she would be the Tree of Life and the Virgin Mary Jane, and the oil they talk about using in private.

Go check out some string theory and quantum physics concepts... I think there's a book called "The Holographic Universe" as well that might be good.

I've never understood why people say this. What does being a plant have to do with whether or not marijuana is a drug? What is the definition of drug that does not include plants?

Marijuana is one of the most beneficial plants on the planet. If one were a creationist they'd have to ask themselves "was god wrong?" in making marijuana... did he screw up and forget to put up his stash?

Here we go with a another fallacy. Are you really assuming just because a plant exists that we should smoke it?? Hey, God created poison ivy too. Maybe you should replace your toilet paper with it.

 

[BadJesus]

I've never understood why people say this. What does being a plant have to do with whether or not marijuana is a drug? What is the definition of drug that does not include plants?

Marijuana is one of the most beneficial plants on the planet. If one were a creationist they'd have to ask themselves "was god wrong?" in making marijuana... did he screw up and forget to put up his stash?

Here we go with a another fallacy. Are you really assuming just because a plant exists that we should smoke it?? Hey, God created poison ivy too. Maybe you should replace your toilet paper with it.

Actually eating it is the way to go if you can afford it.

 

[BadJesus]

If you believe in the bible creation myth then maybe you should look at where those tales came from which was Ancient Egypt, the Greeks borrowed the belief system of the Egyptians too except they'd admit to it. The Egyptians probably took it from the Sumerians or from some other belief system that did. In the Greek creation myth CHAOS created everything. In the Old Testament the "Lord" character is a Saturnalian fellow , the EL or Saturn... who if you look up the traits for, one of the major traits for Saturn is CHAOS... CHAOS created everything and Chaos is beautiful.

 

[Montrovant]

That is true but she kept taking tests and the her I.Q. kept getting higher and higher.

Oh, I don't doubt that IQ can be a decent indicator of general intelligence, and therefor the woman is truly smart. It's just a very inexact measurement, at best, which makes it not very authoritative when trying to determine the smartest person (ignoring my other point about the inability to test everyone).

You and Huggy are engaging in the "No True Scottsman Fallacy." This is a form of the "Moving the Goalpost Fallacy."

I'm sorry, how is my simple argument that there is no accurate way to determine who the smartest person in the world is in any way related to your post or HUGGY?

I think you are mistaking what I've been saying.

 

[Youwerecreated]

There is no way to measure a 220 I Q. Hawkings accomplishments are no fluke:

Stephen William Hawking, CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA (born 8 January 1942) is a British theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and author. His key scientific works to date have included providing, with Roger Penrose, theorems regarding gravitational singularities in the framework of general relativity, and the theoretical prediction that black holes should emit radiation, which is today known as Hawking radiation (or sometimes as Bekenstein–Hawking radiation).

He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a lifetime member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, and in 2009 was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States. Hawking was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge between 1979 and 2009. Subsequently, he became research director at the university's Centre for Theoretical Cosmology.



I believe he would make my list of brains qualified to make an informed opinion of the existance of god.

Now on to a subject you obviously personally know nothing about.... drugs.

Drugs can clearly be abused. Of that there should be no doubt. That said much of the knowledge of and participation in human inquest of our environment and the human condition has involved risk by those explorers. Reaching out into the un known requires a state of not "knowing" at times like a baby...an infant ..does not know..with an open un preprogrammed mind. Some drugs can be a benefit in removing inhabitions to that end.

LSD for one example can be quite helpful in becoming more enlightened as it opens the minds ability to explore more possible ideas than the brain of a maturing human can do on it's own. Our "normal" experiences build up walls to learning as we adopt strategies for physical self preservation and "getting along" in society. LSD temporarily releases those learned responsibilities allowing the brain to move freely in the theoretical...making associations not possible under "normal" conditions. Stating that having experienced such free thought as a disqualifier is stupid. That is like stating that a proffesional aircraft test pilot has no business driving a fork lift in a warehouse. That stated.. LSD is not for everybody. Some people are more fragile mentally than others and the release of the inhibitions that safely glue thier lives together can be more than disturbing..even permanently and fatally. I don't recommend the ingestion of LSD to anyone before an honest evaluation of the risk of having any possible thought or nightmare vision pop into thier head. For those of stronger mental stuff..I say go for it. The mental experiences can be the most enlightening of your life. Unlike the common sleeping "dream" state where most people do not remember what they saw..with LSD you will remember vividly and be able to take your stunning realizations back into reality for future use.

Sorry fella you are once again wrong. Hawking's I.Q. is not known but it has been suggested to be around 180 and Einsteins Was suggested to be around 190.


Like i said Hawking's accomplishments are no comparison to Einsteins,Mendels,and Newtons.

Under evolutionary theory, Hawkins should have been pitched at birth or hunted and eaten. You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals so let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I've never understood why people say this. What does being a plant have to do with whether or not marijuana is a drug? What is the definition of drug that does not include plants?

Marijuana is one of the most beneficial plants on the planet. If one were a creationist they'd have to ask themselves "was god wrong?" in making marijuana... did he screw up and forget to put up his stash?

Here we go with a another fallacy. Are you really assuming just because a plant exists that we should smoke it?? Hey, God created poison ivy too. Maybe you should replace your toilet paper with it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If you believe in the bible creation myth then maybe you should look at where those tales came from which was Ancient Egypt, the Greeks borrowed the belief system of the Egyptians too except they'd admit to it. The Egyptians probably took it from the Sumerians or from some other belief system that did. In the Greek creation myth CHAOS created everything. In the Old Testament the "Lord" character is a Saturnalian fellow , the EL or Saturn... who if you look up the traits for, one of the major traits for Saturn is CHAOS... CHAOS created everything and Chaos is beautiful.

Oh boy, Secularlist believe Chaos created all things depends on which camp you are in ,some believe everything came about by random mistakes and chance. do you believe the big bang produced Chaos ?

 

[HUGGY]

By the way huggy none of these intelligent people can prove or disprove God's existence so what is your point ?

You are so bitter about God you remind me of a Dawkins or Hawking student mainly because of their atheistic views.

It just pisses you off to think intelliget people believe in creation doesn't it ?

I have no less hatred for the Romans and Greeks and those before them that persecuted and murdered the thoughts and lives of the free thinkers of those ages.

So I'm going to ASSume your hatred includes the atheistic governments of the 20th century that murdered millions of people, including one notorious guy that thought he could help natural selection along by getting rid of everyone that wasn't blond haired and blue eyed?

I am an avid follower of history on the tube and screen. Have been for most of my 63 years. Can't say I've cracked many books on history but times have changed and information is so much simpler to access via electrons. A guess would ball park the time I've spent watching and listening to experts and proffessors video and documentary lecture is well into the multi hundreds of hours of study.

Still I make no claim to be the last word on Nazi-ism. From what I have gathered though I wouldn't call Hitler an athiest. No more so than one could call the Klu Klux Klan an atheist organization. Even the Russian revolution that lead to the suedo communistic Soviet Union wasn't done in the name of atheism. Atheism was more of a by-product of the movement as it was bent on cleaning house on the old ways in favor a new experiment to bring Russia out of a feudal and desperately poor group of people. Christianity is still very much alive and well all through Russia and the former eastern bloc.

The systematic murder of the chosen enemy of Nazi Germany was horrific but I don't see it as an attack on religion per se. It was very much a fight BETWEEN religions..Christians and Jews. The outcome was clearly never intended to eliminate "god".

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have no less hatred for the Romans and Greeks and those before them that persecuted and murdered the thoughts and lives of the free thinkers of those ages.

So I'm going to ASSume your hatred includes the atheistic governments of the 20th century that murdered millions of people, including one notorious guy that thought he could help natural selection along by getting rid of everyone that wasn't blond haired and blue eyed?

I am an avid follower of history on the tube and screen. Have been for most of my 63 years. Can't say I've cracked many books on history but times have changed and information is so much simpler to access via electrons. A guess would ball park the time I've spent watching and listening to experts and proffessors video and documentary lecture is well into the multi hundreds of hours of study.

Still I make no claim to be the last word on Nazi-ism. From what I have gathered though I wouldn't call Hitler an athiest. No more so than one could call the Klu Klux Klan an atheist organization. Even the Russian revolution that lead to the suedo communistic Soviet Union wasn't done in the name of atheism. Atheism was more of a by-product of the movement as it was bent on cleaning house on the old ways in favor a new experiment to bring Russia out of a feudal and desperately poor group of people. Christianity is still very much alive and well all through Russia and the former eastern bloc.

The systematic murder of the chosen enemy of Nazi Germany was horrific but I don't see it as an attack on religion per se. It was very much a fight BETWEEN religions..Christians and Jews. The outcome was clearly never intended to eliminate "god".

I am no fan of organized religion they are simply creations of man. God made it clear they suffer destruction just like the nonbeliever and the evil of the earth. These religions are referred to as Babylon the great and she is called by God the great harlot. This great harlot committed fornication and idolatry with the kings of the earth. They committed despicable acts in the name of God,but should God be blamed by the acts of men ?

God warns us to get out of her unless we want to share in her destruction. God is separating the sheep from the goats. He is reading our hearts and he is calling us out from atheism and all false religions. Is there one true religion no. What unites us is our heart condition and eventually our faith in the Almighty and believing in his son.

It is not religion that saves us, it is our hearts and faith in God that saves us. To help us make wise choices you have to pray and open the scriptures to actually see what they say. Satan has been using religion to mislead many and we can see that by what religions teach and do.

Revelations chapter 18 speaks of this great harlot.

Joh 8:44 You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[HUGGY]

So I'm going to ASSume your hatred includes the atheistic governments of the 20th century that murdered millions of people, including one notorious guy that thought he could help natural selection along by getting rid of everyone that wasn't blond haired and blue eyed?

I am an avid follower of history on the tube and screen. Have been for most of my 63 years. Can't say I've cracked many books on history but times have changed and information is so much simpler to access via electrons. A guess would ball park the time I've spent watching and listening to experts and proffessors video and documentary lecture is well into the multi hundreds of hours of study.

Still I make no claim to be the last word on Nazi-ism. From what I have gathered though I wouldn't call Hitler an athiest. No more so than one could call the Klu Klux Klan an atheist organization. Even the Russian revolution that lead to the suedo communistic Soviet Union wasn't done in the name of atheism. Atheism was more of a by-product of the movement as it was bent on cleaning house on the old ways in favor a new experiment to bring Russia out of a feudal and desperately poor group of people. Christianity is still very much alive and well all through Russia and the former eastern bloc.

The systematic murder of the chosen enemy of Nazi Germany was horrific but I don't see it as an attack on religion per se. It was very much a fight BETWEEN religions..Christians and Jews. The outcome was clearly never intended to eliminate "god".

I am no fan of organized religion they are simply creations of man. God made it clear they suffer destruction just like the nonbeliever and the evil of the earth. These religions are referred to as Babylon the great and she is called by God the great harlot. This great harlot committed fornication and idolatry with the kings of the earth. They committed despicable acts in the name of God,but should God be blamed by the acts of men ?

God warns us to get out of her unless we want to share in her destruction. God is separating the sheep from the goats. He is reading our hearts and he is calling us out from atheism and all false religions. Is there one true religion no. What unites us is our heart condition and eventually our faith in the Almighty and believing in his son.

It is not religion that saves us, it is our hearts and faith in God that saves us. To help us make wise choices you have to pray and open the scriptures to actually see what they say. Satan has been using religion to mislead many and we can see that by what religions teach and do.

Revelations chapter 18 speaks of this great harlot.

Joh 8:44 You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Wildly off topic for this thread and string of replies.

The above reply is also all too self serving and contradictory.

All religion is organized the moment someone picks up a bible and chooses how it should be interpreted to others. You claim one on one with god is the only way and then ignore the prime condition and spout scripture. Odd.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I am an avid follower of history on the tube and screen. Have been for most of my 63 years. Can't say I've cracked many books on history but times have changed and information is so much simpler to access via electrons. A guess would ball park the time I've spent watching and listening to experts and proffessors video and documentary lecture is well into the multi hundreds of hours of study.

Still I make no claim to be the last word on Nazi-ism. From what I have gathered though I wouldn't call Hitler an athiest. No more so than one could call the Klu Klux Klan an atheist organization. Even the Russian revolution that lead to the suedo communistic Soviet Union wasn't done in the name of atheism. Atheism was more of a by-product of the movement as it was bent on cleaning house on the old ways in favor a new experiment to bring Russia out of a feudal and desperately poor group of people. Christianity is still very much alive and well all through Russia and the former eastern bloc.

The systematic murder of the chosen enemy of Nazi Germany was horrific but I don't see it as an attack on religion per se. It was very much a fight BETWEEN religions..Christians and Jews. The outcome was clearly never intended to eliminate "god".

I am no fan of organized religion they are simply creations of man. God made it clear they suffer destruction just like the nonbeliever and the evil of the earth. These religions are referred to as Babylon the great and she is called by God the great harlot. This great harlot committed fornication and idolatry with the kings of the earth. They committed despicable acts in the name of God,but should God be blamed by the acts of men ?

God warns us to get out of her unless we want to share in her destruction. God is separating the sheep from the goats. He is reading our hearts and he is calling us out from atheism and all false religions. Is there one true religion no. What unites us is our heart condition and eventually our faith in the Almighty and believing in his son.

It is not religion that saves us, it is our hearts and faith in God that saves us. To help us make wise choices you have to pray and open the scriptures to actually see what they say. Satan has been using religion to mislead many and we can see that by what religions teach and do.

Revelations chapter 18 speaks of this great harlot.

Joh 8:44 You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Wildly off topic for this thread and string of replies.

The above reply is also all too self serving and contradictory.

All religion is organized the moment someone picks up a bible and chooses how it should be interpreted to others. You claim one on one with god is the only way and then ignore the prime condition and spout scripture. Odd.

Not really,I don't attend a dogmatic church. Very few sermons I have heard from the church I attend that you can come away with more than one view.

The scriptures don't contradict themselves with study that can clearly be seen you can tell the difference between metaphor and what's real.

Wildly off topic how ? this thread is about creationism religion has a part in creationism.

The point I was making if I didn't make it clear enough is all Christians are linked together by the nonbelievers.You lock in on the ones that did things in the name of God or for their own sick Ideology that was horrible, thinking this is true Christianity.

God is reaching out to all walks of life calling all of his people to him. I am sorry you see that view as self assuming. People with the right heart condition will hear his voice and listen to his words and draw close to him those who do not have the right heart condition will ignore his voice and words.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I am an avid follower of history on the tube and screen. Have been for most of my 63 years. Can't say I've cracked many books on history but times have changed and information is so much simpler to access via electrons. A guess would ball park the time I've spent watching and listening to experts and proffessors video and documentary lecture is well into the multi hundreds of hours of study.

Still I make no claim to be the last word on Nazi-ism. From what I have gathered though I wouldn't call Hitler an athiest. No more so than one could call the Klu Klux Klan an atheist organization. Even the Russian revolution that lead to the suedo communistic Soviet Union wasn't done in the name of atheism. Atheism was more of a by-product of the movement as it was bent on cleaning house on the old ways in favor a new experiment to bring Russia out of a feudal and desperately poor group of people. Christianity is still very much alive and well all through Russia and the former eastern bloc.

The systematic murder of the chosen enemy of Nazi Germany was horrific but I don't see it as an attack on religion per se. It was very much a fight BETWEEN religions..Christians and Jews. The outcome was clearly never intended to eliminate "god".

I am no fan of organized religion they are simply creations of man. God made it clear they suffer destruction just like the nonbeliever and the evil of the earth. These religions are referred to as Babylon the great and she is called by God the great harlot. This great harlot committed fornication and idolatry with the kings of the earth. They committed despicable acts in the name of God,but should God be blamed by the acts of men ?

God warns us to get out of her unless we want to share in her destruction. God is separating the sheep from the goats. He is reading our hearts and he is calling us out from atheism and all false religions. Is there one true religion no. What unites us is our heart condition and eventually our faith in the Almighty and believing in his son.

It is not religion that saves us, it is our hearts and faith in God that saves us. To help us make wise choices you have to pray and open the scriptures to actually see what they say. Satan has been using religion to mislead many and we can see that by what religions teach and do.

Revelations chapter 18 speaks of this great harlot.

Joh 8:44 You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Wildly off topic for this thread and string of replies.

The above reply is also all too self serving and contradictory.

All religion is organized the moment someone picks up a bible and chooses how it should be interpreted to others. You claim one on one with god is the only way and then ignore the prime condition and spout scripture. Odd.

No one has all the right answers and that is not the important thing. The relationship between you and the creator is what really matters. A relationship with God is a one on one relationship period, end of story.


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

 

[HUGGY]

I am no fan of organized religion they are simply creations of man. God made it clear they suffer destruction just like the nonbeliever and the evil of the earth. These religions are referred to as Babylon the great and she is called by God the great harlot. This great harlot committed fornication and idolatry with the kings of the earth. They committed despicable acts in the name of God,but should God be blamed by the acts of men ?

God warns us to get out of her unless we want to share in her destruction. God is separating the sheep from the goats. He is reading our hearts and he is calling us out from atheism and all false religions. Is there one true religion no. What unites us is our heart condition and eventually our faith in the Almighty and believing in his son.

It is not religion that saves us, it is our hearts and faith in God that saves us. To help us make wise choices you have to pray and open the scriptures to actually see what they say. Satan has been using religion to mislead many and we can see that by what religions teach and do.

Revelations chapter 18 speaks of this great harlot.

Joh 8:44 You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Wildly off topic for this thread and string of replies.

The above reply is also all too self serving and contradictory.

All religion is organized the moment someone picks up a bible and chooses how it should be interpreted to others. You claim one on one with god is the only way and then ignore the prime condition and spout scripture. Odd.

Not really,I don't attend a dogmatic church. Very few sermons I have heard from the church I attend that you can come away with more than one view.

The scriptures don't contradict themselves with study that can clearly be seen you can tell the difference between metaphor and what's real.

Wildly off topic how ? this thread is about creationism religion has a part in creationism.

The point I was making if I didn't make it clear enough is all Christians are linked together by the nonbelievers.You lock in on the ones that did things in the name of God or for their own sick Ideology that was horrible, thinking this is true Christianity.

God is reaching out to all walks of life calling all of his people to him. I am sorry you see that view as self assuming. People with the right heart condition will hear his voice and listen to his words and draw close to him those who do not have the right heart condition will ignore his voice and words.

God IS doing no such thing. Stone tablets? Hearsay about Jesus? Your god is at best lazy. I am reaching out at this moment with more clairity than your god. Have you considered the possibility that there might have been a god 2000 years ago but he died. If he were all that and still around he should have no problem being clear and direct. If he is playing some "game" screw him. I don't like game players. If your god thinks my love and attention is so desireable I'm easy to find.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Wildly off topic for this thread and string of replies.

The above reply is also all too self serving and contradictory.

All religion is organized the moment someone picks up a bible and chooses how it should be interpreted to others. You claim one on one with god is the only way and then ignore the prime condition and spout scripture. Odd.

Not really,I don't attend a dogmatic church. Very few sermons I have heard from the church I attend that you can come away with more than one view.

The scriptures don't contradict themselves with study that can clearly be seen you can tell the difference between metaphor and what's real.

Wildly off topic how ? this thread is about creationism religion has a part in creationism.

The point I was making if I didn't make it clear enough is all Christians are linked together by the nonbelievers.You lock in on the ones that did things in the name of God or for their own sick Ideology that was horrible, thinking this is true Christianity.

God is reaching out to all walks of life calling all of his people to him. I am sorry you see that view as self assuming. People with the right heart condition will hear his voice and listen to his words and draw close to him those who do not have the right heart condition will ignore his voice and words.

God IS doing no such thing. Stone tablets? Hearsay about Jesus? Your god is at best lazy. I am reaching out at this moment with more clairity than your god. Have you considered the possibility that there might have been a god 2000 years ago but he died. If he were all that and still around he should have no problem being clear and direct. If he is playing some "game" screw him. I don't like game players. If your god thinks my love and attention is so desireable I'm easy to find.

If you were reaching out to him you would find him Huggy and I am certain he knows your address.

 

[daws101]

Perfectly reasonable considering mans limitations that there is a being out there that has abilities beyond our comprehension.

Life didn't create itself, it is irrational to think it could. That the planets perfectly alligned themselves and one planet that has everything to sustain life.

another series of famous false declarations by YWC.

"Life didn't create itself"..YWC
"the planets perfectly alligned themselves and one planet that has everything to sustain life"- YWC

"Perfectly reasonable considering mans limitations that there is a being out there that has abilities beyond our comprehension."YWC


YOU HAVE NO OBJECTIVE CREDIBLE EVIDENCE TO PROVE THESE STATEMENTS ARE FACT.
AT BEST THEY ARE OPINION .

AT WORST THEY ARE confirmation bias : Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias, myside bias or verification bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in military, political, and organizational contexts.

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IN OTHER WORDS, PEOPLE FIND WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT THERE .

Exactly my point,many of of my beliefs are based in faith. If you want to call it opinion that is fine but that is what your views are based in.

That is exactly why I asked you to point out a trait in humans you can prove came from mutations. Then you need to prove that trait did not exist already in the gene pool.

If you can't then are your views based on empirical evidence or is it just an opinion based on no evidence ?

faith is an opinion with lot's of wish-full thinking thrown.
once again you assume that my views are based in a kind of faith. and that assumption is base less.


Human Evolution and Frameshift Mutations
By Geoff • April 3, 2009

How did humans evolve from early primates? How did “human like” traits such as a smaller jaw relative to apes and hairlessness pop up when they don’t appear in the wild in any real frequency? The typical explanation for why humans have smaller jaws than early primates is that our diets changed and our brains got bigger, pressures that caused a smaller jaw. But there’s another way to look at this – what if our diets changed and our brains got bigger due to proto-human society dealing and adapting to an increasingly frequent and nearly catastrophic mutation of the jaw?

Myosin Heavy Chain 16
The human and chimpanzee genomes have both been mapped, so we are able to make comparisons between them. This is extremely useful, as chimpanzees and humans shared a common ancestor, but genetic lines split apart approximately 7 million years ago. So examining the differences may tell us something about how humans evolved.



There is a protein called myosin heavy chain 16 (aka MYH16) which in chimpanzees and other non-human primates is expressed almost exclusively in their powerful jaw muscles. These strong jaws are an adult trait – a logically complex one that would be more sensitive to random mutations.

And that’s exactly what seems to have happened. Non-human primates have DNA that codes for the complete MYH16 protein. The corresponding part of human DNA is missing a random chunk – which causes a frameshift mutation.

Frameshift Mutations
What is a frameshift mutation? Well, first let’s find out how we build proteins. We have a strand of messenger RNA (imagine a long tape with letters on it) which a ribosome (hell, imagine a tiny elf) uses to produce proteins. The critical thing to consider is that a ribosome builds a protein by reading three nucleotides at a time, and these three nucleotides code for a certain amino acid. These amino acids are chained together to produce proteins. Some combinations of three nucleotides can also act as “punctuation marks”.



So our wee elf looks closely at the long tape of letters, and starts off with the first three. His “frame”, the little chunk he works on, is three letters long. This frame is an instruction to build a certain amino acid, which he makes. He then goes along the tape, three letters at a time, making an amino acid each time that he sticks onto the last. This will eventually create a long chain of amino acids that we call a protein. But each frame doesn’t need to code for just an amino acid – it can also code for other instructions (those “punctuation marks”) starting or stopping this chaining process.

Now you may have guessed what a frameshift mutation is by now – it’s where a single letter in our tape disappears, or a new random one gets thrown in, causing our frame to get shifted slightly. This means that the resulting triplets after this error will be horribly wrong. It’s like the difference between


HEY MAN HOW ARE YOU BRO and
HEY MAN HWA REY OUB RO_ or HEY MAN HOQ WAR EYO UBR O__

if one were to speak in sentences containing only three letter words. The first sentence makes sense if we parse three letters at a time. The two others have a random letter removed, and a random letter added in. If we parse them three letters at a time, the sentence turns into garbage halfway through! The resulting nonsense (or malformed protein) is a result of a random insertion or deletion of information (nucleotides) and our “frame”, the manner in which we interpret it.

Consequences
So a frameshift mutation occured in early humans that affected the production of the protein MYH16. This protein is involved in the strong powerful jaws that primates have, but not humans. We often think of mutations as a simple little “blip” in the genetic code, but the way our bodies parse this code can cause cascading effects. Instead of MYH16 having a slightly different amino acid in a random spot from a random mutation, the specified amino acids after the mutation will change completely!

So you might think that we’ll have some odd protein that’s mostly normal, and the parts after the mutation affected by the frameshift will be wonky. But – and this is an important but – the triplets code for “punctuation marks” too, remember? In this MYH16 mutation, it turns out that this frameshift caused a punctuation mark (aka a stop codon) to just pop up – so the protein is cut off far sooner than it should be! Not too good for any traits relying on that protein.

Look at the differences between these gorilla and human skulls below. The large bony ridges on the gorilla skull on the left are where the larger jaw muscles attach – otherwise they would literally tear off of the skull. You can also see how the gorilla skull seems “empty” on the sides – that’s because it is filled with large jaw muscles, reducing space available for the brain. The red tinted parts are where the jaw muscles attach – you can see how much more “anchoring” a gorilla’s jaw muscle requires.

And this is where it gets interesting. This mutation in our human ancestors happened approximately 2.4 million years ago. Right before our ancestors stopped looking like primates and started looking like us. If you lacked the protein that operated a powerful jaw muscle, you could not carry a large jawbone around and use it effectively. If you can’t carry a large jawbone around, there is strong selection pressure for those with smaller jaws to survive. If your jaw gets smaller, then the loading of the jaw on the skull decreases – bony ridges disappear, and the skull can get larger and lighter since it doesn’t need to be as strong. A larger and lighter skull can accommodate a bigger brain.

It appears that a random mutation, flipping a single bit of genetic information, has beautifully complex cascading results. Viewing the world as a hostile agent of noise and fury, winding down to an eventual death by entropy is wrong. You can fold a piece of paper, give it to a child, and have them cut crude holes in it with cheap scissors – and when you unfold it, the snowflake is beautiful.

So too can randomness be folded and twisted by logical structures in biology and physics – and the result is our amazing world.

Human Evolution and Frameshift Mutations | gmilburn.ca

 

[daws101]

Believing in creation does not necessitate the belief that the earth is 6000yrs old.
That probably baffles you as well.

I'm not baffled in the least.!

Evidently you do since you used that argument against creation. One of your biggest problems you stereotype far too much. You stereotyped Newton.

You are trying to spin out of your assertion that Newton had no choice but to believe in creation. I posted a link to your favorite source saying that atheism beliefs have been around very long,long before Newton was born.

and that link just strengthened my point, I did not stereotype Newton, you have..I posted SEVERAL TIMES WHY NEWTON HAD NO CHOICE IN WHAT HE BELIEVED.

Notes on Religion in 16th Century Europe


Atheism
The word "atheist" in the 1500s was commonly used to denote a libertine rather to claim that one did not believe in God. To be described as an atheist was an insult. As the French historian Lucien Febve wrote, there were "conceptual difficulties" in the 1500s in denying the existence of God. "Every activity of the day ... was saturated with religious beliefs and institutions." And asking someone whether he believed in God was to suggest the possibility that he did not and must have been as insulting as asking if he were a sodomite or murderer. Peter Watson in his book Ideas agrees with Febve. Watson writes that "One reason Montaigne never really doubted that there was a God was because to do so in his lifetime was next to impossible."

Atheism was little more tolerated in the late 1600s, as indicated by the Enlightenment's John Locke claiming that atheism was “not at all to be tolerated” because, “promises, covenants and oaths, which are the bonds of human societies, can have no hold upon an atheist.”