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You are still dodging the question. If the universe and everything in it had a beginning,where did the matter come from ?

I could care less about your dating methods, I asked you to do the math and you were given the information to work the formula.

Once you do the math it contradicts the age of the earth and and universe according to the dated moon rocks.

Do you just post crap up whether it answers my question or not ?

It contradicts evolutions timeline.
The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

Just say it ,an outside source is responsible for the matter's existence. Time began with creation.
say what? ..ok you're an asshole
as to your statement it's false there is no evidence of an outside force. the singularities mentioned in the BBT are in this UNIVERSE NOT OUTSIDE IT.
SO THE OUTSIDE FORCE YOU YAMMER ABOUT IS UNPROVABLE.
AS IS YOUR FAIRY TALE THAT GOD DID IT.
 
Regarding your "because I say so" comment. I didn't say it but thousands of theologians for the last 3000 or 4000 years have said it. It is part of our doctrine on God and the Bible clearly teaches this. You are presenting an argument against someone or something you say does not exist. That is REAL intelligent. But at least if you are going to punch at the air, you should argue against the commonly held beliefs of the Christians you hate some much instead of building up a strawman you can tear down.

Please re-present your argument with the commonly held Christian beliefs that God has always existed and will always exist. And that he is outside the Creation (Theism) and exists outside of time, matter, space, and energy, all of which did not exist before the Big Bangenstein.
SO SINCE 1000S OF ASHOLES SAY SOMTHING IS TRUE FOR ALONG TIME IT MUST TRUE (PLACE IRONY HERE )


"the commonly held Christian beliefs that God has always existed and will always "UR

e·lief noun \bə-ˈlēf\
Definition of BELIEF
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.
SINCE YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO BOLSTER YOUR BELIEF.
ALL YOU HAVE IS FAITH :firm belief in something for which there is no proof 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
if you had any acual proof then there would be no need for faith.
 
Hollie, your statement, "To the creationist, complexity emerges somehow instantaneously"
Couldn't it also be said that, "To the evolutionist, complexity emerges somehow instantaneously"?
The difference is with the Big Bang you cannot explain how 0 banging into 0 = something.
you're mis interpreting the BBT.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.
__________________
Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something.
not:0 banging into 0 = something.
 
Regarding your "because I say so" comment. I didn't say it but thousands of theologians for the last 3000 or 4000 years have said it. It is part of our doctrine on God and the Bible clearly teaches this. You are presenting an argument against someone or something you say does not exist. That is REAL intelligent. But at least if you are going to punch at the air, you should argue against the commonly held beliefs of the Christians you hate some much instead of building up a strawman you can tear down.

Please re-present your argument with the commonly held Christian beliefs that God has always existed and will always exist. And that he is outside the Creation (Theism) and exists outside of time, matter, space, and energy, all of which did not exist before the Big Bangenstein.
SO SINCE 1000S OF ASHOLES SAY SOMTHING IS TRUE FOR ALONG TIME IT MUST TRUE (PLACE IRONY HERE )


"the commonly held Christian beliefs that God has always existed and will always "UR

e·lief noun \b&#601;-&#712;l&#275;f\
Definition of BELIEF
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.
SINCE YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO BOLSTER YOUR BELIEF.
ALL YOU HAVE IS FAITH :firm belief in something for which there is no proof 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
if you had any acual proof then there would be no need for faith.

You are smoking crack if you think it doesn't take faith to believe in the TOE, or that the micro machines we see in the cell accidentally self assembled.
 
Did you happen to notice that your second argument negates the first? The Bible teaches God has eternally existed in the past. You used the same flawed logic Hollie used. Causality arguments require a beginning. If something has always been, it doesn't need a cause.

My first second argument does not negate my first argument. There aren't even two arguments that I made. There is only one, so this isn't even possible. Nor am I the one putting forth a causality argument, I am saying causality is NOT needed. The other part of my post was a refutation about biological complexity, so you're assertion about my arguments negating eachother is really out of left field. Nice try though.

Argument 1: God doesn't solve anything in terms of the Big Bang Cosmology. Basis of your argument: If God caused the Big Bang, what caused God? [This argument infers that cause is needed]

Argument 2: Secondly, the idea there needs to be cause is unfounded. Basis of your second argument: Causality is necessarily a temporal condition (it needs time to take place). Before the big bang, time did not exist, therefore, neither could causality. [in fact, this sounds an awful lot like a Causality argument!!!]

I'm not sure what English classes you took as a kid, but that my friend right there is two arguments. Call them two points... whatever. You even say "Secondly".
they're obviously were better than the one you took ....
when I was studying english an augment could have several points or sub arguments to bolster it's main point.
 
Hollie, your statement, "To the creationist, complexity emerges somehow instantaneously"
Couldn't it also be said that, "To the evolutionist, complexity emerges somehow instantaneously"?
The difference is with the Big Bang you cannot explain how 0 banging into 0 = something.
you're mis interpreting the BBT.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

I think you may be misrepresenting the Big Bang theory. The physics of the Big Bang does not say the universe originated at a specific point. Otherwise, we could calculate the space geographic location of the original bang point. Space is expanding in all directions. The background radiation is located at every point in the sky. In fact, scientists scoffed at Christians for their belief the earth is at the center of the solar system. Turns out, the earth is at the center of the universe after all!!! Because everything is expanding away from our planet and the further an object is away from us, the faster it is accelerating away. Pick a point in the sky. This is happening equally in all directions from us. So let's really see how up on your BB Physics you are. Answer this question: Is our earth at the original singularity point of the initial bang? Or is something else going on?
 
My first second argument does not negate my first argument. There aren't even two arguments that I made. There is only one, so this isn't even possible. Nor am I the one putting forth a causality argument, I am saying causality is NOT needed. The other part of my post was a refutation about biological complexity, so you're assertion about my arguments negating eachother is really out of left field. Nice try though.

Argument 1: God doesn't solve anything in terms of the Big Bang Cosmology. Basis of your argument: If God caused the Big Bang, what caused God? [This argument infers that cause is needed]

Argument 2: Secondly, the idea there needs to be cause is unfounded. Basis of your second argument: Causality is necessarily a temporal condition (it needs time to take place). Before the big bang, time did not exist, therefore, neither could causality. [in fact, this sounds an awful lot like a Causality argument!!!]

I'm not sure what English classes you took as a kid, but that my friend right there is two arguments. Call them two points... whatever. You even say "Secondly".
they're obviously were better than the one you took ....
when I was studying english an augment could have several points or sub arguments to bolster it's main point.

You think so? Try again Homeslice. Each argument is making a different point, not a sub point of the other one. NP clarified this in a later post and he could have avoided confusion by stating in the first argument that he was going to assume for a second, that the BB had a cause. Guess your English classes were just as bad as NP's.:lol:
 
Nope, I meant exactly what I said. I am nothing if not consistent. ;)
God authored the Bible, while scribes wrote it down. The proof of that IS God predictions. Man can't see into the future. All we can do is guess.
I keep asking you mortals, to predict something for me just a couple hundred years into the future, but you keep changing the subject.
As for his accuracy? His bar was, if my prophets say, "so says the Lord", and it fails to happen, take my prophet out back and stone him to death. No coincidences allowed.
Even opposing Kings of Israel, called on God's prophets because of their accuracy.
So, on second thought, instead of predicting me something, do it consistently, and if your wrong one time let me hit you with a rock.

I think you're relying on the "becuse I say so" claim as legitimate support for those claims.

The fact is, we have no reason to believe that the gods authored any bibles.

Now this is an intelligent statement!!! Since the Bible is a specific document with a capitol 'B', I'm not sure what other "bibles" you are referring to. Since the authors of the 66 different books in the historical collection known as "The Bible" all refer to a monotheistic God, your reference to gods shows an utter and complete ignorance for the work you are referring to.

So in your response to your statement, I would agree. I, too, have no reason to believe little 'g' gods authored little 'b' bibles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Q0JmWjj0
the bible is not a specific document

specific: free from ambiguity : accurate <a specific statement of faith>

the bible if full of ambiguities.
 
When I was in church today I was thinking about the people I interact with here in this forum and started realizing how hopeless atheism really is. The pastor talked about how they had buried his baby sister, who only lived 40 days, when he was just 10. He then talked about an old hymn called "It is well."

This hymn was written after several traumatic events in Spafford’s life. The first was the death of his only son in 1871 at the age of four, shortly followed by the great Chicago Fire which ruined him financially (he had been a successful lawyer). Then in 1873, he had planned to travel to Europe with his family on the SS Ville du Havre, but sent the family ahead while he was delayed on business concerning zoning problems following the Great Chicago Fire. While crossing the Atlantic, the ship sank rapidly after a collision with a sea vessel, the Loch Earn, and all four of Spafford's daughters died. His wife Anna survived and sent him the now famous telegram, "Saved alone . . .". Shortly afterwards, as Spafford traveled to meet his grieving wife, he was inspired to write these words as his ship passed near where his daughters had died.

A few of the lyrics:

When peace like a river, attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say,
It is well, it is well, with my soul.

My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

I was thinking about my mom today too. Her birthday would have been two days ago. She struggled with Alzheimers for 10 years to the point she was bed ridden and couldn't even feed herself. She passed away 3 years ago and I was able to spend the last few days with her by her bed until Friday morning at 5 am when she took her last breath and finally rested.

Her death sent me into a year long mid life crisis. I will define a mid life crisis as the full HEART realization that life isn't forever. You see, we all have the HEAD knowledge that life is finite, but most of us can spend our entire life without the FULL HEART realization that there will be an end. As a cop for 10-years I had seen many people die, young and old. I'd seen the aftermath of a young man who ended the desparation with a 30/30 rifle inserted into his mouth. What a mess. I had seen the drug addict, who out of consideration of the people who would find her, had slit her wrist in the bath tub of a flea bag hotel on Apache Blvd. These were tragedies, but they weren't real to me. They were just strangers, unfortunate casualties of the desperate times we live in. With my mother's death, death became really real, and I began to question some aspects of my faith. Then I wound up going through a 12-week series called the Truth Project. I wound up becoming very interested in the ID movement, and on that path, had my faith restored. I look at world around me in a whole new light.

I relate this little story because after my mother's death, I really questioned what was really the point of this whole mess. My mother had a very hard child hood, belonging to a very poor family of farmers in Boaz, Alabama. Her mom and dad were alcoholics. Somehow she and my straight laced "Bible-thumping" dad fell in love and got married. I know she enjoyed her adult life, raised three kids, and had many very close friends in our church, only to be SLOWLY robbed of all her life and memories which started at age 63 by a very cruel disease.

I remember one night close to the end when I was getting ready to come back to Phoenix after visiting her in the hospital. It was late and I had taken my dad home to get some rest and stopped back into the hospital before making the 100 mile drive home. There was a male nurse trying to clean her up after she had a messed herself. The disease had progressed to where she no longer had control of her bowels. She was so scared and really didn't know what was happening to her. She was trembling and didn't understand what this strange man was doing to her. I could just see the terror in her eyes and all I could do was just hold her hand and tell her it was going to be okay. I hope she found comfort in my voice, even though consciously she no longer even knew who I was.

For some of you, during times of suffering, the question becomes "How could God let this happen?" For me it was just the opposite. I questioned, "How can I make sense of all this in the absence of God?" If God isn't real, what a cruel joke life is. What cruel chance is our presence here.

What a joy it is to have my faith in Christ restored. I know that I am just a pilgrim on a journey through this life but this isn't all there is. My hope remains in Christ, even in death. I know deep in my heart I will see my mother again, with her memories fully restored. You may think I believe in a fairy tell. But for me that confidence is unwavering.

I just can't even imagine how hopeless life would be without that hope. Natural Selection is cruel. Why do some get to live to 100 but others die before the age of two months. Why are some lives even ended before their tiny lungs ever even fill with air?

And what of your loved ones who have died? They were just here a little while and now done forever. Only their memory remains in you and with your demise, those too will be gone and it will be like their life never even happened.

But for me, no matter what comes my way, it is well with my soul.
yawn! another fucking stupid conversion story .
 
Was that what I was doing to Hollie ? She really hates it when we actually discuss molecular biology.

You never discuss molecular biology. I have taken you to task on several occasions for copying and pasting falsified "quotes" and manufactured data from fundie Christian creationist ministries.

The only thing that can help you out of your position of denialHollie is to study everything about a cell.Then ask yourself how could all these parts of a cell come together at once to form the first cell. The first cell then had to form other cells just like the first.
did it ever occur to you that there was never "one" first cell.
it's almost as lame a concept as your "what system or body part developed first" nonsense.
nature does no do "one offs" there is not only one kind of one celled lifeforms.
there are billions... Published online 4 September 2009 | Nature | doi:10.1038/news.2009.880

News

Cells go fractal
Mathematical patterns rule the behaviour of molecules in the nucleus.

Claire Ainsworth


A cell displays chromatin (green) and a molecule used for tracking (red).
J. ELLENBERGThe maths behind the rugged beauty of a coastline may help to keep cell biology in order, say researchers in Germany. Fractals — rough shapes that look the same at all scales — could explain how the cell's nucleus holds molecules that manage our DNA in the right location.

In new experiments, Sebastien Huet and Aurélien Bancaud of the European Molecular Biology Laboratory in Heidelberg, Germany, tracked the movement of molecules within cells in a lab dish, then compared the pattern of movement against mathematical models. Large molecules, they found, moved according to the same rules as small molecules — suggesting that their environment was truly fractal. The team reported their findings this week at the EMBO meeting in Amsterdam.

Cells go fractal : Nature News


as to coming together (or assembly) if you studied biology you'd know that cells or any other living thing grows it's mechanisms from the same material,not desparate parts from different material.

http://www.fractal.org/Life-Science-Technology/Fractal-like-structure.pdf
 
Regarding your "because I say so" comment. I didn't say it but thousands of theologians for the last 3000 or 4000 years have said it. It is part of our doctrine on God and the Bible clearly teaches this. You are presenting an argument against someone or something you say does not exist. That is REAL intelligent. But at least if you are going to punch at the air, you should argue against the commonly held beliefs of the Christians you hate some much instead of building up a strawman you can tear down.

Please re-present your argument with the commonly held Christian beliefs that God has always existed and will always exist. And that he is outside the Creation (Theism) and exists outside of time, matter, space, and energy, all of which did not exist before the Big Bangenstein.
SO SINCE 1000S OF ASHOLES SAY SOMTHING IS TRUE FOR ALONG TIME IT MUST TRUE (PLACE IRONY HERE )


"the commonly held Christian beliefs that God has always existed and will always "UR

e·lief noun \b&#601;-&#712;l&#275;f\
Definition of BELIEF
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.
SINCE YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO BOLSTER YOUR BELIEF.
ALL YOU HAVE IS FAITH :firm belief in something for which there is no proof 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
if you had any acual proof then there would be no need for faith.

You are smoking crack if you think it doesn't take faith to believe in the TOE, or that the micro machines we see in the cell accidentally self assembled.
:lol::lol::lol:
 
Hollie, your statement, "To the creationist, complexity emerges somehow instantaneously"
Couldn't it also be said that, "To the evolutionist, complexity emerges somehow instantaneously"?
The difference is with the Big Bang you cannot explain how 0 banging into 0 = something.
you're mis interpreting the BBT.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

I think you may be misrepresenting the Big Bang theory. The physics of the Big Bang does not say the universe originated at a specific point. Otherwise, we could calculate the space geographic location of the original bang point. Space is expanding in all directions. The background radiation is located at every point in the sky. In fact, scientists scoffed at Christians for their belief the earth is at the center of the solar system. Turns out, the earth is at the center of the universe after all!!! Because everything is expanding away from our planet and the further an object is away from us, the faster it is accelerating away. Pick a point in the sky. This is happening equally in all directions from us. So let's really see how up on your BB Physics you are. Answer this question: Is our earth at the original singularity point of the initial bang? Or is something else going on?
so Copernicus was wrong? :lol::lol:
 
you're mis interpreting the BBT.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

I think you may be misrepresenting the Big Bang theory. The physics of the Big Bang does not say the universe originated at a specific point. Otherwise, we could calculate the space geographic location of the original bang point. Space is expanding in all directions. The background radiation is located at every point in the sky. In fact, scientists scoffed at Christians for their belief the earth is at the center of the solar system. Turns out, the earth is at the center of the universe after all!!! Because everything is expanding away from our planet and the further an object is away from us, the faster it is accelerating away. Pick a point in the sky. This is happening equally in all directions from us. So let's really see how up on your BB Physics you are. Answer this question: Is our earth at the original singularity point of the initial bang? Or is something else going on?
so Copernicus was wrong? :lol::lol:

Is your name Hollie? Emoticons won't hide your ignorance of modern physics. You were lucky you even spelled singularity right.
 
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When I was in church today I was thinking about the people I interact with here in this forum and started realizing how hopeless atheism really is. The pastor talked about how they had buried his baby sister, who only lived 40 days, when he was just 10. He then talked about an old hymn called "It is well."

This hymn was written after several traumatic events in Spafford’s life. The first was the death of his only son in 1871 at the age of four, shortly followed by the great Chicago Fire which ruined him financially (he had been a successful lawyer). Then in 1873, he had planned to travel to Europe with his family on the SS Ville du Havre, but sent the family ahead while he was delayed on business concerning zoning problems following the Great Chicago Fire. While crossing the Atlantic, the ship sank rapidly after a collision with a sea vessel, the Loch Earn, and all four of Spafford's daughters died. His wife Anna survived and sent him the now famous telegram, "Saved alone . . .". Shortly afterwards, as Spafford traveled to meet his grieving wife, he was inspired to write these words as his ship passed near where his daughters had died.

A few of the lyrics:

When peace like a river, attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say,
It is well, it is well, with my soul.

My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

I was thinking about my mom today too. Her birthday would have been two days ago. She struggled with Alzheimers for 10 years to the point she was bed ridden and couldn't even feed herself. She passed away 3 years ago and I was able to spend the last few days with her by her bed until Friday morning at 5 am when she took her last breath and finally rested.

Her death sent me into a year long mid life crisis. I will define a mid life crisis as the full HEART realization that life isn't forever. You see, we all have the HEAD knowledge that life is finite, but most of us can spend our entire life without the FULL HEART realization that there will be an end. As a cop for 10-years I had seen many people die, young and old. I'd seen the aftermath of a young man who ended the desparation with a 30/30 rifle inserted into his mouth. What a mess. I had seen the drug addict, who out of consideration of the people who would find her, had slit her wrist in the bath tub of a flea bag hotel on Apache Blvd. These were tragedies, but they weren't real to me. They were just strangers, unfortunate casualties of the desperate times we live in. With my mother's death, death became really real, and I began to question some aspects of my faith. Then I wound up going through a 12-week series called the Truth Project. I wound up becoming very interested in the ID movement, and on that path, had my faith restored. I look at world around me in a whole new light.

I relate this little story because after my mother's death, I really questioned what was really the point of this whole mess. My mother had a very hard child hood, belonging to a very poor family of farmers in Boaz, Alabama. Her mom and dad were alcoholics. Somehow she and my straight laced "Bible-thumping" dad fell in love and got married. I know she enjoyed her adult life, raised three kids, and had many very close friends in our church, only to be SLOWLY robbed of all her life and memories which started at age 63 by a very cruel disease.

I remember one night close to the end when I was getting ready to come back to Phoenix after visiting her in the hospital. It was late and I had taken my dad home to get some rest and stopped back into the hospital before making the 100 mile drive home. There was a male nurse trying to clean her up after she had a messed herself. The disease had progressed to where she no longer had control of her bowels. She was so scared and really didn't know what was happening to her. She was trembling and didn't understand what this strange man was doing to her. I could just see the terror in her eyes and all I could do was just hold her hand and tell her it was going to be okay. I hope she found comfort in my voice, even though consciously she no longer even knew who I was.

For some of you, during times of suffering, the question becomes "How could God let this happen?" For me it was just the opposite. I questioned, "How can I make sense of all this in the absence of God?" If God isn't real, what a cruel joke life is. What cruel chance is our presence here.

What a joy it is to have my faith in Christ restored. I know that I am just a pilgrim on a journey through this life but this isn't all there is. My hope remains in Christ, even in death. I know deep in my heart I will see my mother again, with her memories fully restored. You may think I believe in a fairy tell. But for me that confidence is unwavering.

I just can't even imagine how hopeless life would be without that hope. Natural Selection is cruel. Why do some get to live to 100 but others die before the age of two months. Why are some lives even ended before their tiny lungs ever even fill with air?

And what of your loved ones who have died? They were just here a little while and now done forever. Only their memory remains in you and with your demise, those too will be gone and it will be like their life never even happened.

But for me, no matter what comes my way, it is well with my soul.
yawn! another fucking stupid conversion story .

Another poor soul in denial of the certainty of his own demise. Life is fatal.
 
I think you may be misrepresenting the Big Bang theory. The physics of the Big Bang does not say the universe originated at a specific point. Otherwise, we could calculate the space geographic location of the original bang point. Space is expanding in all directions. The background radiation is located at every point in the sky. In fact, scientists scoffed at Christians for their belief the earth is at the center of the solar system. Turns out, the earth is at the center of the universe after all!!! Because everything is expanding away from our planet and the further an object is away from us, the faster it is accelerating away. Pick a point in the sky. This is happening equally in all directions from us. So let's really see how up on your BB Physics you are. Answer this question: Is our earth at the original singularity point of the initial bang? Or is something else going on?
so Copernicus was wrong? :lol::lol:

Is your name Hollie? Emoticons won't hide your ignorance of physics.

You have a rather creepy fascination with me.

I'd be careful about comments directed at others regarding physics as that subject is not a high priority at Harun Yahya where so much of your cutting and pasting comes from.
 
When I was in church today I was thinking about the people I interact with here in this forum and started realizing how hopeless atheism really is. The pastor talked about how they had buried his baby sister, who only lived 40 days, when he was just 10. He then talked about an old hymn called "It is well."

This hymn was written after several traumatic events in Spafford’s life. The first was the death of his only son in 1871 at the age of four, shortly followed by the great Chicago Fire which ruined him financially (he had been a successful lawyer). Then in 1873, he had planned to travel to Europe with his family on the SS Ville du Havre, but sent the family ahead while he was delayed on business concerning zoning problems following the Great Chicago Fire. While crossing the Atlantic, the ship sank rapidly after a collision with a sea vessel, the Loch Earn, and all four of Spafford's daughters died. His wife Anna survived and sent him the now famous telegram, "Saved alone . . .". Shortly afterwards, as Spafford traveled to meet his grieving wife, he was inspired to write these words as his ship passed near where his daughters had died.

A few of the lyrics:

When peace like a river, attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say,
It is well, it is well, with my soul.

My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

I was thinking about my mom today too. Her birthday would have been two days ago. She struggled with Alzheimers for 10 years to the point she was bed ridden and couldn't even feed herself. She passed away 3 years ago and I was able to spend the last few days with her by her bed until Friday morning at 5 am when she took her last breath and finally rested.

Her death sent me into a year long mid life crisis. I will define a mid life crisis as the full HEART realization that life isn't forever. You see, we all have the HEAD knowledge that life is finite, but most of us can spend our entire life without the FULL HEART realization that there will be an end. As a cop for 10-years I had seen many people die, young and old. I'd seen the aftermath of a young man who ended the desparation with a 30/30 rifle inserted into his mouth. What a mess. I had seen the drug addict, who out of consideration of the people who would find her, had slit her wrist in the bath tub of a flea bag hotel on Apache Blvd. These were tragedies, but they weren't real to me. They were just strangers, unfortunate casualties of the desperate times we live in. With my mother's death, death became really real, and I began to question some aspects of my faith. Then I wound up going through a 12-week series called the Truth Project. I wound up becoming very interested in the ID movement, and on that path, had my faith restored. I look at world around me in a whole new light.

I relate this little story because after my mother's death, I really questioned what was really the point of this whole mess. My mother had a very hard child hood, belonging to a very poor family of farmers in Boaz, Alabama. Her mom and dad were alcoholics. Somehow she and my straight laced "Bible-thumping" dad fell in love and got married. I know she enjoyed her adult life, raised three kids, and had many very close friends in our church, only to be SLOWLY robbed of all her life and memories which started at age 63 by a very cruel disease.

I remember one night close to the end when I was getting ready to come back to Phoenix after visiting her in the hospital. It was late and I had taken my dad home to get some rest and stopped back into the hospital before making the 100 mile drive home. There was a male nurse trying to clean her up after she had a messed herself. The disease had progressed to where she no longer had control of her bowels. She was so scared and really didn't know what was happening to her. She was trembling and didn't understand what this strange man was doing to her. I could just see the terror in her eyes and all I could do was just hold her hand and tell her it was going to be okay. I hope she found comfort in my voice, even though consciously she no longer even knew who I was.

For some of you, during times of suffering, the question becomes "How could God let this happen?" For me it was just the opposite. I questioned, "How can I make sense of all this in the absence of God?" If God isn't real, what a cruel joke life is. What cruel chance is our presence here.

What a joy it is to have my faith in Christ restored. I know that I am just a pilgrim on a journey through this life but this isn't all there is. My hope remains in Christ, even in death. I know deep in my heart I will see my mother again, with her memories fully restored. You may think I believe in a fairy tell. But for me that confidence is unwavering.

I just can't even imagine how hopeless life would be without that hope. Natural Selection is cruel. Why do some get to live to 100 but others die before the age of two months. Why are some lives even ended before their tiny lungs ever even fill with air?

And what of your loved ones who have died? They were just here a little while and now done forever. Only their memory remains in you and with your demise, those too will be gone and it will be like their life never even happened.

But for me, no matter what comes my way, it is well with my soul.
yawn! another fucking stupid conversion story .

Another poor soul in denial of the certainty of his own demise. Life is fatal.

Another weepy-eyed fundie who was taken to task for his slathering attempt at proselytizing.
 
6600 posts, and this issue has no common agreement?

Why waste your time?

:lmao:

I've been in these type of debates before and it's possible for the topic to lead to stimulating conversation... except when the evangelicals and Harun Yahya groupies are present.
 
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