Creationists

[daws101]

You're the one needing it .

You took a lot of words to basically say the same thing I said. The faith you have in evolution isn't unlike the faith I have in creationism.

Why is there no recorded history before app. 4000 BC?

If mankind evolved from the same primitive life source, then why are there 7000 different languages spoken? Did they not communicate?

sorry but no . faith in science is not at all like faith in religion as that article CLEARLY SHOWS.
THE REST IS A STEAMING PILE OF CREATIONIST SHIT..
1. DEFINE RECORDED HISTORY .
Humans have been creating non alphabetical recorded events (history)(glyphs and cave painting ) for 100,000 years or more.
making your false question moot.
the evolution of language is far better proof of evolution then assumed creation.
did god intentionally leave out a common language gene or did he just fuck up?
BTW the 7000 languages do have one thing in common vowels, A,E,O,U sometimes Y.
Also saying that the "source" we evolved from was primitive is extremely bias and ethnocentric.
since no life existed on earth for billions of years any "life source" that could take hold and thrive is anything but primitive.

Shall I define "faith" for you?

You say these drawings are 100,000 years or older but yet you have really no proof. You have faith that the science that told you how old these drawings are, are correct.

If you read the Bible, especially the part about the Tower of Babel, you will see that God was responsible for the different languages.

If not primitive then what? Developed? Modern? Sophisticated?

Which adjective would you rather I use?

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Have you considered emailing the science departments of leading universities with your creationist claims? I'm sure those universities would be interested to learn that your cutting and pasting from the Disco-tute' has rendered all of evolutionary science as null and void.

Shall we substitute a "praise hey-zoos" in place of the biological sciences?

Have you ever considering countering my argument with facts?

What facts have you presented?

At least you admit you don't read my post.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There really is no battle. As noted, the only objection to science comess from fundie Christians. Your subjective impressions of kittens in a litter are hardly meaningful.

It really is a shame that fundie Christians share this siege mentality when it comes to science and they will retreat into silly conspiracy theories to defend their gods.

Same old stale argument with no facts to support anything you say or to dispute anything I've claimed.

Class dismissed.

Run and hide if you wish. You seem confused that your homespun stories and tales of kitten litters somehow represents an argument worth reading or responding to.

Your cut and paste about the wistar symposium is a lot of flaming about creationist propaganda that was ridiculed for being silly creationists flailing their pom poms with no allowance for peer reviewed refutation.

I see no creationist "facts" supporting a compelling case for your gods, only the typical science hating fundie bluster.

I don't run nor do I hide.

You have presented NOTHING but dismissals of facts.

Prove evolution is a FACT.


I'll wait.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

sorry but no . faith in science is not at all like faith in religion as that article CLEARLY SHOWS.
THE REST IS A STEAMING PILE OF CREATIONIST SHIT..
1. DEFINE RECORDED HISTORY .
Humans have been creating non alphabetical recorded events (history)(glyphs and cave painting ) for 100,000 years or more.
making your false question moot.
the evolution of language is far better proof of evolution then assumed creation.
did god intentionally leave out a common language gene or did he just fuck up?
BTW the 7000 languages do have one thing in common vowels, A,E,O,U sometimes Y.
Also saying that the "source" we evolved from was primitive is extremely bias and ethnocentric.
since no life existed on earth for billions of years any "life source" that could take hold and thrive is anything but primitive.

Shall I define "faith" for you?

You say these drawings are 100,000 years or older but yet you have really no proof. You have faith that the science that told you how old these drawings are, are correct.

If you read the Bible, especially the part about the Tower of Babel, you will see that God was responsible for the different languages.

If not primitive then what? Developed? Modern? Sophisticated?

Which adjective would you rather I use?

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

Ficticious? Why because you say so?

Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

And as I've said dating methods are flawed and since that is a fact, then all presumptions about how old something is, is just that a presumption.

 

[Hollie]

Have you ever considering countering my argument with facts?

What facts have you presented?

At least you admit you don't read my post.

Where did I admit that, or did you just invent that claim.

 

[Hollie]

Shall I define "faith" for you?

You say these drawings are 100,000 years or older but yet you have really no proof. You have faith that the science that told you how old these drawings are, are correct.

If you read the Bible, especially the part about the Tower of Babel, you will see that God was responsible for the different languages.

If not primitive then what? Developed? Modern? Sophisticated?

Which adjective would you rather I use?

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

Ficticious? Why because you say so?

Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

And as I've said dating methods are flawed and since that is a fact, then all presumptions about how old something is, is just that a presumption.

Yours is a flawed and unsupportable statement.

 

[UltimateReality]

Have you considered emailing the science departments of leading universities with your creationist claims? I'm sure those universities would be interested to learn that your cutting and pasting from the Disco-tute' has rendered all of evolutionary science as null and void.

Shall we substitute a "praise hey-zoos" in place of the biological sciences?

Have you ever considering countering my argument with facts?

What facts have you presented?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What facts have you presented?

At least you admit you don't read my post.

Where did I admit that, or did you just invent that claim.

It was an assumption based on the fact that you had to ask what facts I presented in which there are a few.

 

[UltimateReality]

The wistar symposium was a laughable joke.

ID: Intelligent Design as Imitatio Dei (report on the 2007 'Wistar Retrospective Symposium') - The Panda's Thumb

Yet still no proof of evolution.

You do know it's called a "theory" for a reason.

You would need some education in science to understand biological evolution.

Where did you go to college??

 

[Lonestar_logic]

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

Ficticious? Why because you say so?

Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

And as I've said dating methods are flawed and since that is a fact, then all presumptions about how old something is, is just that a presumption.

Yours is a flawed and unsupportable statement.

Why because you say so?

Prove anything I have stated is flawed.

And I have supported my claim that dating test are flawed several times in this thread. Those are some of the FACTS you said you didn't see.

 

[UltimateReality]

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

Ficticious? Why because you say so?

Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

And as I've said dating methods are flawed and since that is a fact, then all presumptions about how old something is, is just that a presumption.

Yours is a flawed and unsupportable statement.

You would need some education in science to understand biological evolution.

 

[Hollie]

Same old stale argument with no facts to support anything you say or to dispute anything I've claimed.

Class dismissed.

Run and hide if you wish. You seem confused that your homespun stories and tales of kitten litters somehow represents an argument worth reading or responding to.

Your cut and paste about the wistar symposium is a lot of flaming about creationist propaganda that was ridiculed for being silly creationists flailing their pom poms with no allowance for peer reviewed refutation.

I see no creationist "facts" supporting a compelling case for your gods, only the typical science hating fundie bluster.

I don't run nor do I hide.

You have presented NOTHING but dismissals of facts.

Prove evolution is a FACT.


I'll wait.

You can start here: The Talk.Origins Archive: Evolution FAQs


I'm still hoping you will reveal how your kitten litter tale is a compelling refutation of evolution.

 

[daws101]

Shall I define "faith" for you?

You say these drawings are 100,000 years or older but yet you have really no proof. You have faith that the science that told you how old these drawings are, are correct.

If you read the Bible, especially the part about the Tower of Babel, you will see that God was responsible for the different languages.

If not primitive then what? Developed? Modern? Sophisticated?

Which adjective would you rather I use?

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

Ficticious? Why because you say so?

Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

And as I've said dating methods are flawed and since that is a fact, then all presumptions about how old something is, is just that a presumption.

it's fictious because there's no evidence to support it .
your denial of dating methods is a dodge
it is true that they are flawed but even if they were only right 50% of the time it would still make them far more accurate then the no proof answers you provide.
BTW the bible is the most flawed and inaccurate book ever written....but you still use it...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Run and hide if you wish. You seem confused that your homespun stories and tales of kitten litters somehow represents an argument worth reading or responding to.

Your cut and paste about the wistar symposium is a lot of flaming about creationist propaganda that was ridiculed for being silly creationists flailing their pom poms with no allowance for peer reviewed refutation.

I see no creationist "facts" supporting a compelling case for your gods, only the typical science hating fundie bluster.

I don't run nor do I hide.

You have presented NOTHING but dismissals of facts.

Prove evolution is a FACT.


I'll wait.

You can start here: The Talk.Origins Archive: Evolution FAQs


I'm still hoping you will reveal how your kitten litter tale is a compelling refutation of evolution.

I've heard all the arguments FOR evolution. WHERE IS THE PROOF?

Stuck on the kitten analogy are ya?

Where is the observable random creation of new genetic information, including at least one new functional gene complex?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

not the old "if you read the bible" bullshit. I have read it many times and the tower of bable is a parable ( a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious )
and is no actual proof of a tower or a god or that god was responsible.
"faith" ( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )
on the other hand there is actual proof of the drawings mentioned earlier ...
1. the drawings, glyphs and paintings in and of themselves are evidence .
there is absolutly zero for the tower of bable.
2 before you go on about how dating methods are wrong and all the other denial of fact you'd like to throw in ,even if the dating methods were off by several thousand years they would still be thousands of years older then your creation fantasy allows...

Spanish Cave Paintings Shown as Oldest in World

By SETH BORENSTEIN | Associated Press – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Spanish cave paintings shown as oldest in world | 2012: What's the 'real' truth?

WASHINGTON (AP) — New tests show that crude Spanish cavepaintings of a red sphere and handprints are the oldest in the world, so ancient they may not have been by modern man.Some scientists say they might have even been made by the much maligned Neanderthals, but others disagree.Testing the coating of paintings in 11 Spanish caves, researchers found that one is at least 40,800 years old, which is at least 15,000 years older than previously thought. That makes them older than the more famous French cave paintings by thousands of years.

Scientists dated the Spanish cave paintings by measuring the decay of uranium atoms, instead of traditional carbon-dating, according to a report released Thursday by the journal Science. The paintings were first discovered in the 1870s.

The oldest of the paintings is a red sphere from a cave called El Castillo. About 25 outlined handprints in another cave are at least 37,300 years old. Slightly younger paintings include horses.

Cave paintings are “one of the most exquisite examples of human symbolic behavior,” said study co-author Joao Zilhao, an anthropologist at the University of Barcelona. “And that, that’s what makes us human.

”There is older sculpture and other portable art. Before the latest test, the oldest known cave paintings were those France’s Chauvet cave, considered between 32,000 and 37,000 years old.

What makes the dating of the Spanish cave paintings important is that it’s around the time whenmodern humans first came into Europe from Africa.

Study authors say they could have been from modern man decorating their new digs or they could have been the working of the long-time former tenant of Europe: the Neanderthal. Scientists said Neanderthals were in Europe from about 250,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago. Modern humans arrived in Europe about 41,000 to 45,000 years ago — with some claims they moved in even earlier — and replaced Neanderthals.

“There is a strong chance that these results imply Neanderthal authorship,” Zilhao said. “But I will not say we have proven it because we haven’t.

”In a telephone press conference, Zilhao said Neanderthals recently have gotten “bad press” over their abilities. They decorated their tools and bodies. So, he said, they could have painted caves.But there’s a debate in the scientific community about Neanderthals. Other anthropologists say Zilhao is in a minority of researchers who believe in more complex abilities of Neanderthals.

Eric Delson, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and John Shea at Long Island’s Stony Brook University said the dating work in the Science paper is compelling and important, but they didn’t quite buy the theory that Neanderthals could have been the artists.

“There is no clear evidence of paintings associated with Neanderthal tools or fossils, so any such evidence would be surprising,” Delson said. He said around 41,000 years ago Neanderthals were already moving south in Europe, away from modern man and these caves.

Shea said it is more likely that modern humans were making such paintings in Africa even earlier, but the works didn’t survive because of the different geology on the continent.“The people who came in to Europe were very much like us. They used art, they used symbols,” Shea said.

“They were not like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.”

http://consciouslyconnecting.blog.com/2012/06/15/spanish-cave-paintings-shown-as-oldest-in-world/

Ficticious? Why because you say so?

Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

And as I've said dating methods are flawed and since that is a fact, then all presumptions about how old something is, is just that a presumption.

it's fictious because there's no evidence to support it .
your denial of dating methods is a dodge
it is true that they are flawed but even if they were only right 50% of the time it would still make them far more accurate then the no proof answers you provide.
BTW the bible is the most flawed and inaccurate book ever written....but you still use it...

The only requirement is faith.

Dating methods have been proven to be flawed. Not a dodge but simply the truth.

Using your logic that the dating methods are correct 50 percent of the time, then how can you be certain which result is correct and which result isn't? Flip a coin? It'd be about the same odds.

Actually there are statements in the Bible which are consistent with scientific fact.

Archaeologist continue to find evidence that supports the Bible's historic accuracy.

 

[Hollie]

I don't run nor do I hide.

You have presented NOTHING but dismissals of facts.

Prove evolution is a FACT.


I'll wait.

You can start here: The Talk.Origins Archive: Evolution FAQs


I'm still hoping you will reveal how your kitten litter tale is a compelling refutation of evolution.

I've heard all the arguments FOR evolution. WHERE IS THE PROOF?

Stuck on the kitten analogy are ya?

Where is the observable random creation of new genetic information, including at least one new functional gene complex?

Not surprisingly, you never opened the link sent to you. The facts are there.

Let's look at this from the perspective of a conspiratorial mindset and we'll presume that all the facts and evidence supporting evolution are wrong.

How does that support your claims to the gods? As we see with consistency, the conspiracy theory addled fundie is utterly unable to present evidence for his gods, thus the entirety of the fundie argument in favor of the gods is reduced to attacks on science.

 

[Hollie]

At least you admit you don't read my post.

Where did I admit that, or did you just invent that claim.

It was an assumption based on the fact that you had to ask what facts I presented in which there are a few.

There are facts you possess that prove your gods?

Super. Present them.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You can start here: The Talk.Origins Archive: Evolution FAQs


I'm still hoping you will reveal how your kitten litter tale is a compelling refutation of evolution.

I've heard all the arguments FOR evolution. WHERE IS THE PROOF?

Stuck on the kitten analogy are ya?

Where is the observable random creation of new genetic information, including at least one new functional gene complex?

Not surprisingly, you never opened the link sent to you. The facts are there.

Let's look at this from the perspective of a conspiratorial mindset and we'll presume that all the facts and evidence supporting evolution are wrong.

How does that support your claims to the gods? As we see with consistency, the conspiracy theory addled fundie is utterly unable to present evidence for his gods, thus the entirety of the fundie argument in favor of the gods is reduced to attacks on science.

Yes I opened it and found NO PROOF.

Gods? I made no claim about gods.

The thing is my faith needs no proof. Yours does.

Evolutionary science is junk science.

They have zero evidence that life can be created from non-life. They have zero evidence that any new information or intelligence has been created by random mutations of nucleotides. And so on.

So what do they use for their "evidence?"

Their primary evidence is to assume the theory of evolution is true and to claim that each new discovery in biology or genetic research is the result of evolution.

The scenario goes something like this:

1) Scientists assume the theory of evolution is true,
2) Then they look at the "data" and spin whatever kind of story they can come up with to "prove" the theory of evolution is true,
3) They then claim they have "evidence" for the theory of evolution.

 

[Hollie]

I don't run nor do I hide.

You have presented NOTHING but dismissals of facts.

Prove evolution is a FACT.


I'll wait.

You can start here: The Talk.Origins Archive: Evolution FAQs


I'm still hoping you will reveal how your kitten litter tale is a compelling refutation of evolution.

I've heard all the arguments FOR evolution. WHERE IS THE PROOF?

Stuck on the kitten analogy are ya?

Where is the observable random creation of new genetic information, including at least one new functional gene complex?

You need to petition your creationist ministries to update their propaganda regarding new, functional gene complexes.


More on the origination of new protein-coding genes - The Panda's Thumb

Of course, we can assume all the above is a conspiracy theory. That will allow you to present your facts proving the gods.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Where did I admit that, or did you just invent that claim.

It was an assumption based on the fact that you had to ask what facts I presented in which there are a few.

There are facts you possess that prove your gods?

Super. Present them.

Why would I need proof of something I acknowledge exists?