Crime drops in Colorado.... It's all about drugs

[PredFan]

Two different issues. "Over all crime" and "marijuana use" not the same thing. Very misleading. Why is that?

They are related. Illegal drugs are the cornerstone of gang operations. It's where the money is. If the most popular drug is now legal, the people don't deal with drug dealers. Not to mention possession isn't a crime anymore.

If drug dealers and gangs are fighting or killing for territory, crime goes down. So yeah it makes a big difference

You are on very shaky ground here. There are still other drugs. Drugs like crack, meth, heroin, etc. there is no logical reason to expect gang related crime to decrease, and you cannot show a correlation. Violent crime is down all over the country.

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

Really? I have to explain this to you? Put down the bong and listen.

All forms of alcohol were made legal. Not all forms of drugs are legal
In Colorado.

Understand yet?

 

[PredFan]

American state legalises marijuana 8211 and crime drops 15 Metro News

"Anti-marijuana activists have warned that legalising weed would lead to increased drug addiction, mental problems and crime – but in Colorado, which legalised recreational use of marijuana, the opposite has happened."

"Overall, crime has fallen by 15% and murder has dropped by 50%."

"Sexual assaults and car crime have fallen, and violent crime is down 10% overall."

Two different issues. "Over all crime" and "marijuana use" not the same thing. Very misleading. Why is that?

What? Are you trying to suggest something that no one else is talking about?

No. Did you read the article in the OP?

So... what's the point you're trying to make then?

That the article is misleading.

 

[PredFan]

American state legalises marijuana 8211 and crime drops 15 Metro News

"Anti-marijuana activists have warned that legalising weed would lead to increased drug addiction, mental problems and crime – but in Colorado, which legalised recreational use of marijuana, the opposite has happened."

"Overall, crime has fallen by 15% and murder has dropped by 50%."

"Sexual assaults and car crime have fallen, and violent crime is down 10% overall."

Two different issues. "Over all crime" and "marijuana use" not the same thing. Very misleading. Why is that?

They are related. Illegal drugs are the cornerstone of gang operations. It's where the money is. If the most popular drug is now legal, the people don't deal with drug dealers. Not to mention possession isn't a crime anymore.

If drug dealers and gangs are fighting or killing for territory, crime goes down. So yeah it makes a big difference

Not really. People will still deal with drug dealers to get drugs cheaper. Drug dealers fight for territory. They fight for market share. A legal outlet threatens territory and market share as much as another gang does.

Cigarettes are legal. Eric Garner died selling this perfectly legal product.

Cigarettes might be legal, but apparently you cannot sell them the way Garner was. He was breaking the law.

Time to legalize it as some people believe that people shouldn't be arrested for such a stupid reason.

I agree.

 

[Nyvin]

They are related. Illegal drugs are the cornerstone of gang operations. It's where the money is. If the most popular drug is now legal, the people don't deal with drug dealers. Not to mention possession isn't a crime anymore.

If drug dealers and gangs are fighting or killing for territory, crime goes down. So yeah it makes a big difference

You are on very shaky ground here. There are still other drugs. Drugs like crack, meth, heroin, etc. there is no logical reason to expect gang related crime to decrease, and you cannot show a correlation. Violent crime is down all over the country.

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

Really? I have to explain this to you? Put down the bong and listen.

All forms of alcohol were made legal. Not all forms of drugs are legal
In Colorado.

Understand yet?

So what? Not everyone who uses pot uses heroin. Pot's much...MUCH more common, plain and simple. You take that market away from "criminals" and there's less crime, not a hard concept.

 

[Treeshepherd]

I prefer California law.

In CO and WA, you still get arrested if you're underage. You get a DUI if you have 5 nano grams per liter of blood in your system- like if you smoked pot yesterday.
Pot smokers arrested for DUI A record high in Washington - CSMonitor.com

Without a prescription, you still get arrested for having more than an ounce. You get a felony for growing your own or possessing more than 40 grams with a penalty of up to 5 years in jail and $10,000 fine. If you have a prescription, you can grow 15 plants.

The law isn't even a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

In Humboldt, you just pay $100 or more per year to get your medical card stamped. Then, you can grow up to 100 plants. There's no legal definition of DUI, so you can fight trace amounts in court. And also, we only elect district attorneys who pledge make marijuana prosecution their last priority. Marijuana is the life blood of our economy, and everyone knows it.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I prefer California law.

In CO and WA, you still get arrested if you're underage. You get a DUI if you have 5 nano grams per liter of blood in your system- like if you smoked pot yesterday.
Pot smokers arrested for DUI A record high in Washington - CSMonitor.com

Without a prescription, you still get arrested for having more than an ounce. You get a felony for growing your own or possessing more than 40 grams with a penalty of up to 5 years in jail and $10,000 fine. If you have a prescription, you can grow 15 plants.

The law isn't even a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

In Humboldt, you just pay $100 or more per year to get your medical card stamped. Then, you can grow up to 100 plants. There's no legal definition of DUI, so you can fight trace amounts in court. And also, we only elect district attorneys who pledge make marijuana prosecution their last priority. Marijuana is the life blood of our economy, and everyone knows it.

Is the new Oregon law any better?

 

[Contumacious]

American state legalises marijuana 8211 and crime drops 15 Metro News

"Anti-marijuana activists have warned that legalising weed would lead to increased drug addiction, mental problems and crime – but in Colorado, which legalised recreational use of marijuana, the opposite has happened."

"Overall, crime has fallen by 15% and murder has dropped by 50%."

"Sexual assaults and car crime have fallen, and violent crime is down 10% overall."

That makes sense.

Crime was minimal before 1914.

But it increased exponentially after the Harrison Act of 1914.

While Congress INTENDED to impose a tax on opiates scumbag federal judges changed the law to make it a federal crime and then included marihuana and cocaine as if they were also narcotics.

We are on our own.

Judicial review is non-existent.


.


.

 

[The Rabbi]

You are on very shaky ground here. There are still other drugs. Drugs like crack, meth, heroin, etc. there is no logical reason to expect gang related crime to decrease, and you cannot show a correlation. Violent crime is down all over the country.

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

I guess that's why legal lotteries obliterated numbers games.
Oh,w ait.

Ummm...completely unrelated. You aren't replacing Marijuana with something else first of all, you're just legalizing the stuff that's already out there.

Also lotteries were created to increase state revenue, the first government lottery was an initiative to finance schools and bridges in the DC area, they were not made to offset or drive out private gambling institutions.

Wow that totally missed the point.
Legalizing something doesnt necessarily drive out the illegal operations.

 

[Treeshepherd]

I prefer California law.

In CO and WA, you still get arrested if you're underage. You get a DUI if you have 5 nano grams per liter of blood in your system- like if you smoked pot yesterday.
Pot smokers arrested for DUI A record high in Washington - CSMonitor.com

Without a prescription, you still get arrested for having more than an ounce. You get a felony for growing your own or possessing more than 40 grams with a penalty of up to 5 years in jail and $10,000 fine. If you have a prescription, you can grow 15 plants.

The law isn't even a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

In Humboldt, you just pay $100 or more per year to get your medical card stamped. Then, you can grow up to 100 plants. There's no legal definition of DUI, so you can fight trace amounts in court. And also, we only elect district attorneys who pledge make marijuana prosecution their last priority. Marijuana is the life blood of our economy, and everyone knows it.

Is the new Oregon law any better?

This is what I see happening ( keep in mind that I'm a paranoid pot smoker ) :

There's an undercurrent of libertarianism sweeping the nation , at least in regard to social issues. Government sees the writing on the wall. So, we get these laws which turn out to be Trojan horses.

The WA, CO and Oregon laws ( and their clone on the ballot in CA this November ) totally undercut the medical dispensary system. Now, you need a special license from the government to be a provider. Increasingly, you'll need to be politically connected to grow commercially. Illegal growers are screwed as the price bottoms out from warehouse scale grows.

Where medical dispensaries paid the regular tax rate, these new laws establish a sin tax system, probably at the retail level.

And, they bring in this ridiculous 5 nano gram DUI rule which gives cops an excuse to haul anyone in and give them a blood test, even if they appear sober.

I say just legalize it completely. That would ruin my local economy, but Northern California has reinvented itself before. We were trappers, and then 49'er gold miners, and then fishers and lumberjacks, and now it's getting hard to make a living on weed. It was $4,500 a pound in the '90s. Now, it's dropping under $2,000.

 

[Katzndogz]

We could have no crime if everyone was put on a morphine drip.

 

[Contumacious]

We could have no crime if everyone was put on a morphine drip.

No one has been placed on Marihuana. Individuals are demanding it on their own.


.

 

[Treeshepherd]

We could have no crime if everyone was put on a morphine drip.

I actually see that as a possible future, though maybe not specifically with morphine. Don't we already do that by medicating kids that can't sit still in their desks? Get them out on the soccer field or something is my prescription, but no, today's answer is medication.

A doctor is a pill pusher, and that's no hyperbole. He's a dealer. He even gets kickbacks from Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline and Merck. They kick him down a vacation here, and membership to the golf links there. He's a mad hatter out there ballin'. He's a bagman out there hustling for his cartel. And that's why y'all keep coming back. He gives you the first one, and you keep coming back.

 

[Contumacious]

We could have no crime if everyone was put on a morphine drip.

I actually see that as a possible future, though maybe not specifically with morphine. Don't we already do that by medicating kids that can't sit still in their desks? Get them out on the soccer field or something is my prescription, but no, today's answer is medication.

A doctor is a pill pusher, and that's no hyperbole. He's a dealer. He even gets kickbacks from Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline and Merck. They kick him down a vacation here, and membership to the golf links there. He's a mad hatter out there ballin'. He's a bagman out there hustling for his cartel. And that's why y'all keep coming back. He gives you the first one, and you keep coming back.

Interesting.

The warmongers on the other hand like to feel good when blood is spilt - when women and children are being slaughtered like cattle.

War profiteers are their dealers.

.


.

 

[PredFan]

You are on very shaky ground here. There are still other drugs. Drugs like crack, meth, heroin, etc. there is no logical reason to expect gang related crime to decrease, and you cannot show a correlation. Violent crime is down all over the country.

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

Really? I have to explain this to you? Put down the bong and listen.

All forms of alcohol were made legal. Not all forms of drugs are legal
In Colorado.

Understand yet?

So what? Not everyone who uses pot uses heroin. Pot's much...MUCH more common, plain and simple. You take that market away from "criminals" and there's less crime, not a hard concept.

You are forgetting what the discussion is about. You said that when prohibition ended,gang violence decreased. Yes that's true but it doesn't equate here. All forms of alcohol were made legal then, but not all forms of drugs are today. Therefor, gangs still have their income and trade. It doesn't matter at all how popular pot is.

Understand?

 

[toxicmedia]

I don't even do drugs, or alchohol anymore, because I'm one of the people who can't maintain when I do them...

And I think because the other 90% of Americans can moderate drugs and alchohol...almost all should be legal, to remove the criminal element from all of it, just like ending prohibition of alchohol did.

You want a more secure border?....cut the legs off of the drug cartels, legalize what they've been making money off of.

You want less crime in the US?...legalize what criminals in the US traffic in.

People will always abuse drugs and alchohol, all the laws in the world won't stop that

Oh, so because you can do something means everyone should be able to do it? Let's just forget that other people are different, force them to be the same or stick 'em in an electric chair, right?

Frige, the irony is not wasted on me.

And my compliments...most people don't even know what ironic means. Like that Alanis Morrisette song, where she sings about tragic things that suck, and aren't realy ironic at all.

Having said all that...

So if you take the criminal element out of drugs, and take me out of it too, there really aren't as many problems to worry about

Well there will be problems still, always are, but if you can concentrate on those problems rather than dealing with an impossible problem, then you might get somewhere.

Here's the big problem. What will the right do if they don't have the ability to scare people to keep them in their place by being "tough on crime"?

Almost any problem is easier to resolve than the stranglehold Mexican drug cartells have on our southern border, and almost any problem is easier than me all drunk, or stoned, or spun.....

But yeah....what would righties do for inspiration without terrorist attacks, or crime, or hostile Indians in John Wayne movies?......ummm..........uhhhh................."tap tap tap" (pencil on desk top).......errrr.........I dunno?........Maybe get all religious, or learn more about football than they already know?....

One thing for sure, we'd still be hearing them yap about something

Sure, you'd hear them, but it might not be about pretending they're small govt when doing big govt things.

Right...I've noticed that...government spending is only "too much" or "too big" or "tyrannical" when the spending happens on something the GOP doesn't like.

It's going to be endlell fun pointing out how hypocritical righties on this site are, if the GOP takes back the white house in 2016.

All of the sudden we'll be supporting the terrorists if we criticize the President

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

I guess that's why legal lotteries obliterated numbers games.
Oh,w ait.

Ummm...completely unrelated. You aren't replacing Marijuana with something else first of all, you're just legalizing the stuff that's already out there.

Also lotteries were created to increase state revenue, the first government lottery was an initiative to finance schools and bridges in the DC area, they were not made to offset or drive out private gambling institutions.

Wow that totally missed the point.
Legalizing something doesnt necessarily drive out the illegal operations.

Especially when greedy bureaucrats tax the hell out of it.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We could have no crime if everyone was put on a morphine drip.

No one has been placed on Marihuana. Individuals are demanding it on their own.


.

People would be demanding morphine more if they thought they could get it.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Marijuana is easily the most commonly used drug in the US, and making it legal would most definitely decrease gang related crime. If the avenue to profit is no longer there for them they simply no longer have that means of acquiring profit, and their influence shrinks. It's not a hard concept.

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

Really? I have to explain this to you? Put down the bong and listen.

All forms of alcohol were made legal. Not all forms of drugs are legal
In Colorado.

Understand yet?

So what? Not everyone who uses pot uses heroin. Pot's much...MUCH more common, plain and simple. You take that market away from "criminals" and there's less crime, not a hard concept.

You are forgetting what the discussion is about. You said that when prohibition ended,gang violence decreased. Yes that's true but it doesn't equate here. All forms of alcohol were made legal then, but not all forms of drugs are today. Therefor, gangs still have their income and trade. It doesn't matter at all how popular pot is.

Understand?

The Pothead Left doesn't get that gangs and mafias always have a medium of trade. Their resilience and adaptability are a tribute to capitalism. The potheads will continue to argue that legalizing drugs reduces crime in spite of being proven wrong repeatedly.

 

[Derideo_Te]

That is fine in concept, but it is not supported by evidence in reality. I wish it were true but it isn't.

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

Really? I have to explain this to you? Put down the bong and listen.

All forms of alcohol were made legal. Not all forms of drugs are legal
In Colorado.

Understand yet?

So what? Not everyone who uses pot uses heroin. Pot's much...MUCH more common, plain and simple. You take that market away from "criminals" and there's less crime, not a hard concept.

You are forgetting what the discussion is about. You said that when prohibition ended,gang violence decreased. Yes that's true but it doesn't equate here. All forms of alcohol were made legal then, but not all forms of drugs are today. Therefor, gangs still have their income and trade. It doesn't matter at all how popular pot is.

Understand?

The Pothead Left doesn't get that gangs and mafias always have a medium of trade. Their resilience and adaptability are a tribute to capitalism. The potheads will continue to argue that legalizing drugs reduces crime in spite of being proven wrong repeatedly.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Is that why we still have so many moonshiners and Mafia gangs selling alcohol in today's day and age?

Really? I have to explain this to you? Put down the bong and listen.

All forms of alcohol were made legal. Not all forms of drugs are legal
In Colorado.

Understand yet?

So what? Not everyone who uses pot uses heroin. Pot's much...MUCH more common, plain and simple. You take that market away from "criminals" and there's less crime, not a hard concept.

You are forgetting what the discussion is about. You said that when prohibition ended,gang violence decreased. Yes that's true but it doesn't equate here. All forms of alcohol were made legal then, but not all forms of drugs are today. Therefor, gangs still have their income and trade. It doesn't matter at all how popular pot is.

Understand?

The Pothead Left doesn't get that gangs and mafias always have a medium of trade. Their resilience and adaptability are a tribute to capitalism. The potheads will continue to argue that legalizing drugs reduces crime in spite of being proven wrong repeatedly.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Put the bong away and research the history of the mafia. It may take a while if you start spacing out, but it's a worthy effort.