Crimean Succession

[CorvusRexus]

Apparently Crimea has declared itself independent of Ukraine and opted to be absorbed by Russia. And apparently some people here in the states don't like that. My question is: Why?
If you have a problem with Russia occupying there and that perhaps influencing the vote, perhaps it should be proposed that Russia withdraw its forces and the votes be recast, although I am sure the result would be the same. Or do you simply hate Russia in general, and act like they can't possibly do any good in the world?

 

[Nutz]

1. The vote was BS.
2. It is aggression.
3. Allowing this aggression is appeasement.


Might I suggest you read the history of Europe, WWII and Germany.

 

[Truthseeker420]

How many troops did the U.S. have in Iraq when they voted on the new government in Iraq?

 

[Nutz]

How many troops did the U.S. have in Iraq when they voted on the new government in Iraq?

Before or after a Saddam Hussein regime that rivaled the greats when it came to mass murders?

 

[Katzndogz]

Russia has been made such a bogeyman that many Americans just can't fathom that Russia would be preferable to something else. Not even to Russians. Only Americans can be patriotic and love their country. Only Americans can appreciate their president even when the president is as disreputable as obama.

 

[Truthseeker420]

How many troops did the U.S. have in Iraq when they voted on the new government in Iraq?

Before or after a Saddam Hussein regime that rivaled the greats when it came to mass murders?

Saddam Hussein, the guy who we helped get in power?

 

[Interpol]

First of all, it's Secession and NOT Succession.

Secondly, Russia's incursion into the Ukraine goes against international laws that even Russia has agreed to. You aren't allowed to just strong-arm a country into submission and make it your own anymore. You have to do things democratically. If Crimea wants to be annexed into Russia, they have to go through the process of doing as much within the Ukrainian government.

But they can't, because there are only 3 or 4 members of the Ukrainian government that want this to happen.

The vote was a ridiculous FAIL because it was administered under duress. Oversight was so lax that CNN was even watching people drop multiple ballots into boxes. The other FAIL is that 12% of Crimea are Tatars who would never vote to be annexed back into Russia, because they were under persecution by them and have never been friendly to Russia, so that makes the 95% number a total fraud.

Russia already invaded Georgia. Back then, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing. That have Putin and Russia the signal they could do whatever they wanted, and now we're seeing them misbehave some more.

These first set of sanctions are a slap on the wrist. A warning shot, essentially: Go further and we'll sanction you further. I agree with that. America and the EU have the ability to do much more harm to Russian than they can to us.

Russia is doing the same thing that Hitler did. The world simply will not accept it. So now we're starting with sanctions, which will start to spread through Russia's big money people, and when it does, they'll start to get restless with Putin, just as the proletariat has started to in Russia, as seen by the biggest demonstration against Putin in Moscow that we've seen yet.

 

[tinydancer]

1. The vote was BS.
2. It is aggression.
3. Allowing this aggression is appeasement.


Might I suggest you read the history of Europe, WWII and Germany.

Considering that demographically Crimea is 60% ethnic Russian this outcome was a no brainer.

And what aggression? Russia by a 1997 treaty between the Ukraine and Russia are allowed to have up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

True story.

You see the Russians have their Black Sea Fleet stationed there. And the lease is good till 2042. They have paid the Ukraine handsomely for this lease.

 

[Nutz]

How many troops did the U.S. have in Iraq when they voted on the new government in Iraq?

Before or after a Saddam Hussein regime that rivaled the greats when it came to mass murders?

Saddam Hussein, the guy who we helped get in power?

Well that's it...YOU WIN! Because the US liberated Iraq, PUTIN IS JUSTIFIED...RUSSIA IS HOLY...

Quit throwing oranges in my apple barrel! Your comparison is childish, your logic is sophomoric and your message is inane.

 

[Nutz]

1. The vote was BS.
2. It is aggression.
3. Allowing this aggression is appeasement.


Might I suggest you read the history of Europe, WWII and Germany.

Considering that demographically Crimea is 60% ethnic Russian this outcome was a no brainer.

And what aggression? Russia by a 1997 treaty between the Ukraine and Russia are allowed to have up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

True story.

You see the Russians have their Black Sea Fleet stationed there. And the lease is good till 2042. They have paid the Ukraine handsomely for this lease.

The US has bases in Germany. If we go outside of those bases...in a military effort, is that an invasion?

 

[tinydancer]

First of all, it's Secession and NOT Succession.

Secondly, Russia's incursion into the Ukraine goes against international laws that even Russia has agreed to. You aren't allowed to just strong-arm a country into submission and make it your own anymore. You have to do things democratically. If Crimea wants to be annexed into Russia, they have to go through the process of doing as much within the Ukrainian government.

But they can't, because there are only 3 or 4 members of the Ukrainian government that want this to happen.

The vote was a ridiculous FAIL because it was administered under duress. Oversight was so lax that CNN was even watching people drop multiple ballots into boxes. The other FAIL is that 12% of Crimea are Tatars who would never vote to be annexed back into Russia, because they were under persecution by them and have never been friendly to Russia, so that makes the 95% number a total fraud.

Russia already invaded Georgia. Back then, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing. That have Putin and Russia the signal they could do whatever they wanted, and now we're seeing them misbehave some more.

These first set of sanctions are a slap on the wrist. A warning shot, essentially: Go further and we'll sanction you further. I agree with that. America and the EU have the ability to do much more harm to Russian than they can to us.

Russia is doing the same thing that Hitler did. The world simply will not accept it. So now we're starting with sanctions, which will start to spread through Russia's big money people, and when it does, they'll start to get restless with Putin, just as the proletariat has started to in Russia, as seen by the biggest demonstration against Putin in Moscow that we've seen yet.

What a pile of fecal matter you just shovelled out there. The new so called legit government in Kiev is seriously anti Russian and uber "ethnically pure Ukrainian". The muscle behind the coup they pulled Svoboda and Right Sector have ended up with some very plum positions in the interim government.

Now one of the first bills passed by these whack jobs was to ban the Russian language. Now that was overturned by the new interim President under pressure from the EU. These crazies who are now in power want to make "Ukrainaphobia" a crime aka speak up against the new government and you are in jail.

They want to ban the Russian language, strip citizenship from certain ethnic Russians, ban the adoption of Ukrainian children by non Ukrainians, preferential treatment to all Ukrainian students over any other minority in the country, become a nuclear power again (we're talking weapons) and last but not least...............


Drum roll..........................

Strip Crimea of their autonomy under the Ukrainian Constitution.

So you are an ethnic Russian in Crimea. Guess who you are going to vote to protect you from these anti Russian maniacs in Kiev?

No brainer.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Before or after a Saddam Hussein regime that rivaled the greats when it came to mass murders?

Saddam Hussein, the guy who we helped get in power?

Well that's it...YOU WIN! Because the US liberated Iraq, PUTIN IS JUSTIFIED...RUSSIA IS HOLY...

Quit throwing oranges in my apple barrel! Your comparison is childish, your logic is sophomoric and your message is inane.

I think it's childish to give some passive bullshit hypocritical reason to why Russia shouldn't be in Ukraine.

 

[Nutz]

Saddam Hussein, the guy who we helped get in power?

Well that's it...YOU WIN! Because the US liberated Iraq, PUTIN IS JUSTIFIED...RUSSIA IS HOLY...

Quit throwing oranges in my apple barrel! Your comparison is childish, your logic is sophomoric and your message is inane.

I think it's childish to give some passive bullshit hypocritical reason to why Russia shouldn't be in Ukraine.

Just responding to your post, comparing Iraq to Ukraine. Totally separate issues and devoid of the facts.

Why were you saying Putin is justified? I must have missed that point.

 

[tinydancer]

1. The vote was BS.
2. It is aggression.
3. Allowing this aggression is appeasement.


Might I suggest you read the history of Europe, WWII and Germany.

Considering that demographically Crimea is 60% ethnic Russian this outcome was a no brainer.

And what aggression? Russia by a 1997 treaty between the Ukraine and Russia are allowed to have up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

True story.

You see the Russians have their Black Sea Fleet stationed there. And the lease is good till 2042. They have paid the Ukraine handsomely for this lease.

The US has bases in Germany. If we go outside of those bases...in a military effort, is that an invasion?

Pro Russia militias were formed immediately after the takeover in Kiev. They were the ones that initially set up check points and guard stations. Russian troops have only recently started to move into specific areas in the Crimea.

The bullshit had hit a fever pitch so it really didn't matter at that point.

Think about this scenario. The government in Qatar has been overthrown by very anti American militias. America's only middle east military station is at risk of being seized.

I would expect the US to protect its people stationed at the base in Qatar as well as its multi million dollar military installation.

Wouldn't you?

I'm of Ukrainian descent btw so I'm not pro Russia. I grew up hating Stalin and the USSR but I really am sick to death of the propaganda our own media and governments have been handing us.

I've been following this for some time now. Especially tracking Svoboda and Right Sector.

 

[Nutz]

Considering that demographically Crimea is 60% ethnic Russian this outcome was a no brainer.

And what aggression? Russia by a 1997 treaty between the Ukraine and Russia are allowed to have up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

True story.

You see the Russians have their Black Sea Fleet stationed there. And the lease is good till 2042. They have paid the Ukraine handsomely for this lease.

The US has bases in Germany. If we go outside of those bases...in a military effort, is that an invasion?

Pro Russia militias were formed immediately after the takeover in Kiev. They were the ones that initially set up check points and guard stations. Russian troops have only recently started to move into specific areas in the Crimea.

The bullshit had hit a fever pitch so it really didn't matter at that point.

Think about this scenario. The government in Qatar has been overthrown by very anti American militias. America's only middle east military station is at risk of being seized.

I would expect the US to protect its people stationed at the base in Qatar as well as its multi million dollar military installation.

Wouldn't you?

I'm of Ukrainian descent btw so I'm not pro Russia. I grew up hating Stalin and the USSR but I really am sick to death of the propaganda our own media and governments have been handing us.

I've been following this for some time now. Especially tracking Svoboda and Right Sector.

When was Crimea's base in threat of being under siege? Were the Ukranian troops readying for war or was this an imagined threat, manifested by Putin's desire to reestablish the USSR?

As for your Qatar comparison, I doubt we would try to annex the city/ state where our base exists.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Well that's it...YOU WIN! Because the US liberated Iraq, PUTIN IS JUSTIFIED...RUSSIA IS HOLY...

Quit throwing oranges in my apple barrel! Your comparison is childish, your logic is sophomoric and your message is inane.

I think it's childish to give some passive bullshit hypocritical reason to why Russia shouldn't be in Ukraine.

Just responding to your post, comparing Iraq to Ukraine. Totally separate issues and devoid of the facts.

Why were you saying Putin is justified? I must have missed that point.

I don't think it is a separate issue and certainly not devoid of facts. I didn't say Putin was right or wrong but I do think it hurts the credibility of America to say they are concerned about International law or Democracy when history shows we are not...but I am concerned what is best for America not what is best for Ukraine.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think it's childish to give some passive bullshit hypocritical reason to why Russia shouldn't be in Ukraine.

Just responding to your post, comparing Iraq to Ukraine. Totally separate issues and devoid of the facts.

Why were you saying Putin is justified? I must have missed that point.

I don't think it is a separate issue and certainly not devoid of facts. I didn't say Putin was right or wrong but I do think it hurts the credibility of America to say they are concerned about International law or Democracy when history shows we are not...but I am concerned what is best for America not what is best for Ukraine.

We openly went to war with Iraq. Putin secretly invaded and still denies his troops seized Crimea. We returned Iraq to the Iraqis Putin intends to make Crimea part of Russia. Along with other sections of the Ukraine.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Just responding to your post, comparing Iraq to Ukraine. Totally separate issues and devoid of the facts.

Why were you saying Putin is justified? I must have missed that point.

I don't think it is a separate issue and certainly not devoid of facts. I didn't say Putin was right or wrong but I do think it hurts the credibility of America to say they are concerned about International law or Democracy when history shows we are not...but I am concerned what is best for America not what is best for Ukraine.

We openly went to war with Iraq. Putin secretly invaded and still denies his troops seized Crimea. We returned Iraq to the Iraqis Putin intends to make Crimea part of Russia. Along with other sections of the Ukraine.

I agree but Ukraine used to be part of of "Russia". I'm sure if Texas declared Independence we would send the troops into Texas.

But the question is what is best for America. What would you do?

 

[tinydancer]

Just responding to your post, comparing Iraq to Ukraine. Totally separate issues and devoid of the facts.

Why were you saying Putin is justified? I must have missed that point.

I don't think it is a separate issue and certainly not devoid of facts. I didn't say Putin was right or wrong but I do think it hurts the credibility of America to say they are concerned about International law or Democracy when history shows we are not...but I am concerned what is best for America not what is best for Ukraine.

We openly went to war with Iraq. Putin secretly invaded and still denies his troops seized Crimea. We returned Iraq to the Iraqis Putin intends to make Crimea part of Russia. Along with other sections of the Ukraine.

First and foremost Russia is allowed by treaty to have up to 25,000 troops in Crimea.

Look. Crimea is ethnically 60% Russian. They know damn well that the new goons who took over in Kiev detest anyone who isn't an ethnic Ukrainian. It's right in their party platform that they wish to abolish Crimea's autonomy.

Cripes they want to criminalize "Ukrainaphobia" ban adoptions of Ukrainian children to any non ethnic Ukrainian.

One of the first bills they passed was to ban the Russian language. It was vetoed by the new interim President from pressure by the EU

Putin didn't have to invade. It was a no brainer vote. Join Russia and be protected or let Kiev strip Crimea and Crimeans of their autonomy and ban their language. And that's just for starters.