criminal using illegal gun misses every shot. Concealed Carrier fires once and ends the fight…..

[Brain357]

Brain…..you lie by omission……there are at least 4 studies over 2 million, and 5 or more over 1 million….not one is below 764,000 defensive gun uses each year.

And by intent; he lies over, under, sideways and down.

Ok what have I lied about. Be specific.

 

[2aguy]

Brain…..you lie by omission……there are at least 4 studies over 2 million, and 5 or more over 1 million….not one is below 764,000 defensive gun uses each year.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists, another isn't national, and another has been debunked many times over. Adjusted for today's crime rates only the one that doesn't exist and the one that wasn't national is still over 2 million. Your 2 million is a joke.

12 studies say less than 2 million.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists

Fuck you brain….you are a liar….you call up the L.A. times and get the study……….it is listed, so it can be found…..

 

[Brain357]

Brain…..you lie by omission……there are at least 4 studies over 2 million, and 5 or more over 1 million….not one is below 764,000 defensive gun uses each year.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists, another isn't national, and another has been debunked many times over. Adjusted for today's crime rates only the one that doesn't exist and the one that wasn't national is still over 2 million. Your 2 million is a joke.

12 studies say less than 2 million.

And to show how you lie and distort…..

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

So yes the vast majority say it is under 2 million. Thank you. Please give details of LA times study.

 

[2aguy]

Left-leaning liberals would have preferred that the CCW holder not carry a firearm and just hand over all possessions. Their thinking: Better to be a victim than a gun owner.

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

Tell that to the Clinton's Department of Justice….they hired 2 anti gun researchers and they created their own study…and came out with 1.5 million defensive uses each year……several anti gun studies have also reached the 3 million mark……and not one study has put the number below 764,000 times a year…...

At least 12 studies say it is less than the 2 million you claim. And that's not even adjusting results for current crime rates. The DOJ study would be a million in today's numbers.

I of course said it was the average of the studies that exclude military and police shootings liar.

 

[Brain357]

Brain…..you lie by omission……there are at least 4 studies over 2 million, and 5 or more over 1 million….not one is below 764,000 defensive gun uses each year.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists, another isn't national, and another has been debunked many times over. Adjusted for today's crime rates only the one that doesn't exist and the one that wasn't national is still over 2 million. Your 2 million is a joke.

12 studies say less than 2 million.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists

Fuck you brain….you are a liar….you call up the L.A. times and get the study……….it is listed, so it can be found…..

Give details of the study.

What about Field? Not even national and you know it. The liar is clearly you.

 

[2aguy]

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And here are the studies over 2 million…
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

 

[Brain357]

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

Tell that to the Clinton's Department of Justice….they hired 2 anti gun researchers and they created their own study…and came out with 1.5 million defensive uses each year……several anti gun studies have also reached the 3 million mark……and not one study has put the number below 764,000 times a year…...

At least 12 studies say it is less than the 2 million you claim. And that's not even adjusting results for current crime rates. The DOJ study would be a million in today's numbers.

I of course said it was the average of the studies that exclude military and police shootings liar.

Yes and the vast majority of studies say it is less. Hint: averaging is moronic.

 

[2aguy]

Brain…..you lie by omission……there are at least 4 studies over 2 million, and 5 or more over 1 million….not one is below 764,000 defensive gun uses each year.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists, another isn't national, and another has been debunked many times over. Adjusted for today's crime rates only the one that doesn't exist and the one that wasn't national is still over 2 million. Your 2 million is a joke.

12 studies say less than 2 million.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists

Fuck you brain….you are a liar….you call up the L.A. times and get the study……….it is listed, so it can be found…..

Give details of the study.

What about Field? Not even national and you know it. The liar is clearly you.

fuck you brain……I have reached the limit of dealing with you in a civil manner….

 

[Brain357]

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And here are the studies over 2 million…
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

La times let's see details.
Field not national
Kleck debunked
CDC didn't do a study on DGUs.

 

[Brain357]

Brain…..you lie by omission……there are at least 4 studies over 2 million, and 5 or more over 1 million….not one is below 764,000 defensive gun uses each year.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists, another isn't national, and another has been debunked many times over. Adjusted for today's crime rates only the one that doesn't exist and the one that wasn't national is still over 2 million. Your 2 million is a joke.

12 studies say less than 2 million.

Of the 4, one you can't prove exists

Fuck you brain….you are a liar….you call up the L.A. times and get the study……….it is listed, so it can be found…..

Give details of the study.

What about Field? Not even national and you know it. The liar is clearly you.

fuck you brain……I have reached the limit of dealing with you in a civil manner….

Then try being honest.

 

[2aguy]

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And here are the studies over 2 million…
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

La times let's see details.
Field not national
Kleck debunked
CDC didn't do a study on DGUs.

You find out about L.A. times…you claimed it didn't exist…..and then admitted you didn't even check…considering it is in a peer reviewed study………the CDC studied all of the gun research for obama, spending 10 million dollars in 2013….so fuck you again……

Kleck, again…all of those other studies and you guys focus on him, and anti gunner when he began the research, a liberal by political leanings and his isn't even the study with the highest number……and not one of you can touch his methods…you simply say you don't agree with his numbers and then lie saying he is debunked…

That is why we don't trust you anti gun extremists…...

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Left-leaning liberals would have preferred that the CCW holder not carry a firearm and just hand over all possessions. Their thinking: Better to be a victim than a gun owner.

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

 

[Brain357]

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And here are the studies over 2 million…
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

La times let's see details.
Field not national
Kleck debunked
CDC didn't do a study on DGUs.

You find out about L.A. times…you claimed it didn't exist…..and then admitted you didn't even check…considering it is in a peer reviewed study………the CDC studied all of the gun research for obama, spending 10 million dollars in 2013….so fuck you again……

Kleck, again…all of those other studies and you guys focus on him, and anti gunner when he began the research, a liberal by political leanings and his isn't even the study with the highest number……and not one of you can touch his methods…you simply say you don't agree with his numbers and then lie saying he is debunked…

That is why we don't trust you anti gun extremists…...

So you let the la times study throw the numbers off with no details. You don't care about the truth.

CDC reviewed other studies, but did no study. Just stated what other studies found including the ncvs. Why aren't you including the ncvs then?

Why are you including a study that wasn't national?

How are you accounting for crime rates which are drastically down since your studies?

12 studies say it is lower.

 

[Brain357]

Left-leaning liberals would have preferred that the CCW holder not carry a firearm and just hand over all possessions. Their thinking: Better to be a victim than a gun owner.

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Left-leaning liberals would have preferred that the CCW holder not carry a firearm and just hand over all possessions. Their thinking: Better to be a victim than a gun owner.

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

Actually hard figures are hard to come by, but the 2 million figure as an outside estimation is generally agreed upon. The problem is, many such instances are not reported to police because the issue was solved; no further action required. I also don't know if police use of guns is included in that figure. I can't even tell you how many times I pulled my weapon as an Indian reservation cop.

Support for that number is admittedly weak and is probably survey based.....you know like the "1 in 5 children are starving in America" myth. But it's still stupid to suggest that someone doesn't know any self defense users so therefore it doesn't happen. There are also plenty of people who don't know a millionaire.

 

[Brain357]

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

Actually hard figures are hard to come by, but the 2 million figure as an outside estimation is generally agreed upon. The problem is, many such instances are not reported to police because the issue was solved; no further action required. I also don't know if police use of guns is included in that figure. I can't even tell you how many times I pulled my weapon as an Indian reservation cop.

Support for that number is admittedly weak and is probably survey based.....you know like the "1 in 5 children are starving in America" myth. But it's still stupid to suggest that someone doesn't know any self defense users so therefore it doesn't happen. There are also plenty of people who don't know a millionaire.

It is easy to question the numbers though when somebody with one is rare. The vast majority of studies are under 2 million. The fact only about 230 criminals are killed in defense each year makes it obvious the number isn't in the millions.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Training! That is what makes the difference.

It should be a requirement for all CCW holders.

As an owner of a gun shop, I know of no CCW holder that doesn't go to the range at least a few times a month.

 

[Brain357]

Training! That is what makes the difference.

It should be a requirement for all CCW holders.

As an owner of a gun shop, I know of no CCW holder that doesn't go to the range at least a few times a month.

As they should.

 

[August West]

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

Actually hard figures are hard to come by, but the 2 million figure as an outside estimation is generally agreed upon. The problem is, many such instances are not reported to police because the issue was solved; no further action required. I also don't know if police use of guns is included in that figure. I can't even tell you how many times I pulled my weapon as an Indian reservation cop.

Support for that number is admittedly weak and is probably survey based.....you know like the "1 in 5 children are starving in America" myth. But it's still stupid to suggest that someone doesn't know any self defense users so therefore it doesn't happen. There are also plenty of people who don't know a millionaire.

That 2 million figure is generally agreed on by who other than gun fondlers and gun dealers? 124 million self defense uses in my lifetime means I should know at least a couple hundred people who have done this. I don`t know of a single one. Common sense + 6th grade math skills is all one needs to see this is a crock.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Training! That is what makes the difference.

It should be a requirement for all CCW holders.

As an owner of a gun shop, I know of no CCW holder that doesn't go to the range at least a few times a month.

As they should.

I know people that are instinctively accurate with any firearm they pick up. My second oldest daughter is one.