criminal using illegal gun misses every shot. Concealed Carrier fires once and ends the fight…..

[M14 Shooter]

I should know at least a couple hundred people who have done this. I don`t know of a single one.

You have no idea why this is meaningless.

 

[2aguy]

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And here are the studies over 2 million…
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

La times let's see details.
Field not national
Kleck debunked
CDC didn't do a study on DGUs.

You find out about L.A. times…you claimed it didn't exist…..and then admitted you didn't even check…considering it is in a peer reviewed study………the CDC studied all of the gun research for obama, spending 10 million dollars in 2013….so fuck you again……

Kleck, again…all of those other studies and you guys focus on him, and anti gunner when he began the research, a liberal by political leanings and his isn't even the study with the highest number……and not one of you can touch his methods…you simply say you don't agree with his numbers and then lie saying he is debunked…

That is why we don't trust you anti gun extremists…...

So you let the la times study throw the numbers off with no details. You don't care about the truth.

CDC reviewed other studies, but did no study. Just stated what other studies found including the ncvs. Why aren't you including the ncvs then?

Why are you including a study that wasn't national?

How are you accounting for crime rates which are drastically down since your studies?

12 studies say it is lower.

The L.A. times…..really brain, cited in a peer reviewd study………this is why we don't trust you anti gun extremists….the only thing you are concerned about is law abiding people owning guns…and you will lie, and distort until you get your way.

These studies show one thing very clearly, gun use by law abiding citizens happens far more than gun murder by criminals, gun accidents, and even accidental gun deaths….combined……..not one study puts the number of defensive uses for guns below 764,000 a year and many put it well over 2 million……even anti gun clinton, and his Department of Justice study, created and carried out by two anti gun researchers…and even their number…from the study they created to debunk Kleck's study came out at 1.5 million defensive gun uses……..

 

[2aguy]

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

Actually hard figures are hard to come by, but the 2 million figure as an outside estimation is generally agreed upon. The problem is, many such instances are not reported to police because the issue was solved; no further action required. I also don't know if police use of guns is included in that figure. I can't even tell you how many times I pulled my weapon as an Indian reservation cop.

Support for that number is admittedly weak and is probably survey based.....you know like the "1 in 5 children are starving in America" myth. But it's still stupid to suggest that someone doesn't know any self defense users so therefore it doesn't happen. There are also plenty of people who don't know a millionaire.

That 2 million figure is generally agreed on by who other than gun fondlers and gun dealers? 124 million self defense uses in my lifetime means I should know at least a couple hundred people who have done this. I don`t know of a single one. Common sense + 6th grade math skills is all one needs to see this is a crock.

No……again, you are wrong. The studies come from a variety of sources, many of them anti gun extremists…..that you don't know anyone…just because you have no friends and live in a box…not really representative of the population as a whole now is it…..

 

[2aguy]

Left-leaning liberals would have preferred that the CCW holder not carry a firearm and just hand over all possessions. Their thinking: Better to be a victim than a gun owner.

Speaking of victims, look what this open carry crackpot did to his 2 children. I suppose they should have been carrying too.
North Carolina open carry advocate shoots and kills toddler sons after domestic dispute

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

Yes he is…..and he says that no one should have more than 10 bullets in their gun because no one he knows has ever needed them and he has never seen any news stories about it……….

 

[2aguy]

Yes….on average law abiding, peaceful, normal people use guns to stop crime 2 million times a year….but thanks for bringing up one time when something bad happened……

Hmmm…. 2 million vs. one bad apple……

And there are 12.8 million people who carry guns for self defense, at a minimum since many states do not require paperwork to carry a gun…..vs……one guy who did wrong…

You do know that concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than the average citizen, and even more law abiding than sworn police officers…right? But again, thanks for brining up one incident……..makes you look like a moron…...

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

Actually hard figures are hard to come by, but the 2 million figure as an outside estimation is generally agreed upon. The problem is, many such instances are not reported to police because the issue was solved; no further action required. I also don't know if police use of guns is included in that figure. I can't even tell you how many times I pulled my weapon as an Indian reservation cop.

Support for that number is admittedly weak and is probably survey based.....you know like the "1 in 5 children are starving in America" myth. But it's still stupid to suggest that someone doesn't know any self defense users so therefore it doesn't happen. There are also plenty of people who don't know a millionaire.

It is easy to question the numbers though when somebody with one is rare. The vast majority of studies are under 2 million. The fact only about 230 criminals are killed in defense each year makes it obvious the number isn't in the millions.

Wow….still pushing that stupid meme….only 230 criminals are killed by gun owning Americans so therefore that the entire number of times guns are used for self defense…what a freaking genius………considering I list story after story of gun owners not killing violent criminals, wounding, driving them off or simply capturing them……

anti gun extremists are morons.

 

[Brain357]

How gullible could one person be to actually believe that 2 million a year nonsense? That`s 124 million in my lifetime and I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun. Homeschooling hasn`t taught you common sense obviously. I can`t imagine how much cash the gun/criminal lobby have scammed you out of.

You personally don't know anyone who stopped a crime with a gun so it doesn't happen? Are you really this stupid?

I believe he is stating that millions each year are impossible given its hard to find anyone with one. If it were 2 million almost every gun owner would have one. Yet I don't know a single person with a dgu.

Actually hard figures are hard to come by, but the 2 million figure as an outside estimation is generally agreed upon. The problem is, many such instances are not reported to police because the issue was solved; no further action required. I also don't know if police use of guns is included in that figure. I can't even tell you how many times I pulled my weapon as an Indian reservation cop.

Support for that number is admittedly weak and is probably survey based.....you know like the "1 in 5 children are starving in America" myth. But it's still stupid to suggest that someone doesn't know any self defense users so therefore it doesn't happen. There are also plenty of people who don't know a millionaire.

It is easy to question the numbers though when somebody with one is rare. The vast majority of studies are under 2 million. The fact only about 230 criminals are killed in defense each year makes it obvious the number isn't in the millions.

Wow….still pushing that stupid meme….only 230 criminals are killed by gun owning Americans so therefore that the entire number of times guns are used for self defense…what a freaking genius………considering I list story after story of gun owners not killing violent criminals, wounding, driving them off or simply capturing them……

anti gun extremists are morons.

You have posted many with deaths. I Wasn't saying that is the number. But many end in death. You have no stat from reality to support 2 million.

 

[Brain357]

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

And here are the studies over 2 million…
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

La times let's see details.
Field not national
Kleck debunked
CDC didn't do a study on DGUs.

You find out about L.A. times…you claimed it didn't exist…..and then admitted you didn't even check…considering it is in a peer reviewed study………the CDC studied all of the gun research for obama, spending 10 million dollars in 2013….so fuck you again……

Kleck, again…all of those other studies and you guys focus on him, and anti gunner when he began the research, a liberal by political leanings and his isn't even the study with the highest number……and not one of you can touch his methods…you simply say you don't agree with his numbers and then lie saying he is debunked…

That is why we don't trust you anti gun extremists…...

So you let the la times study throw the numbers off with no details. You don't care about the truth.

CDC reviewed other studies, but did no study. Just stated what other studies found including the ncvs. Why aren't you including the ncvs then?

Why are you including a study that wasn't national?

How are you accounting for crime rates which are drastically down since your studies?

12 studies say it is lower.

The L.A. times…..really brain, cited in a peer reviewd study………this is why we don't trust you anti gun extremists….the only thing you are concerned about is law abiding people owning guns…and you will lie, and distort until you get your way.

These studies show one thing very clearly, gun use by law abiding citizens happens far more than gun murder by criminals, gun accidents, and even accidental gun deaths….combined……..not one study puts the number of defensive uses for guns below 764,000 a year and many put it well over 2 million……even anti gun clinton, and his Department of Justice study, created and carried out by two anti gun researchers…and even their number…from the study they created to debunk Kleck's study came out at 1.5 million defensive gun uses……..

They show surveys aren't very accurate. They should arrive at a similar number, yet they range from 700k to 3.5 million. Clearly they can't be trusted to be accurate.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Is Brain still lying to you?
Is the Pope still Catholic?

 

[Brain357]

Is Brain still lying to you?
Is the Pope still Catholic?

Still waiting for anyone to point out a lie. Hasn't happened.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Almost every day I thank God that blacksploitation movies glorify shooting a gun sideways which is probably THE most inaccurate way of firing a handgun.

 

[MikeK]

As an owner of a gun shop, I know of no CCW holder that doesn't go to the range at least a few times a month.

Of all the customers who buy a handgun from you, how many would you say are fully competent in the use and safe handling of their chosen weapon?

Are you equipped with, or have access to, a small range where you could perform tests and conduct training classes for those new gun-owners who cannot pass a basic test?

Do you think a gun shop where such tests and training are available would encourage or discourage new customers?

 

[Rotagilla]

.....I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun...

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

 

[Brain357]

.....I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun...

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

As an owner of a gun shop, I know of no CCW holder that doesn't go to the range at least a few times a month.

Of all the customers who buy a handgun from you, how many would you say are fully competent in the use and safe handling of their chosen weapon?

Are you equipped with, or have access to, a small range where you could perform tests and conduct training classes for those new gun-owners who cannot pass a basic test?

Do you think a gun shop where such tests and training are available would encourage or discourage new customers?

99.9 percent of them.

Yes I have a range at my house, but not at my shop. However I do know the owners of some of the local firing ranges and for those interested I pass along that information.

It would definitely encourage new customers IMO.

 

[Rotagilla]

.....I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun...

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

you said you didn't know anyone who ever stopped a crime with a gun....as if that were some kind of important criteria to be met in order to be valid. Do a search for yourself...hell, youtube has hundreds..if not thousands of CCTV surveillance videos and amateur videos showing armed citizens stopping crimes....but you know that already, right?

 

[Brain357]

.....I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun...

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

you said you didn't know anyone who ever stopped a crime with a gun....as if that were some kind of important criteria to be met in order to be valid. Do a search for yourself...hell, youtube has hundreds..if not thousands of CCTV surveillance videos and amateur videos showing armed citizens stopping crimes....but you know that already, right?

Not saying they don't happen. But if they happened millions of times a year id know several people. I don't know any. They are rare. Same reason I dont know anyone who has walked on the moon.

 

[Rotagilla]

.....I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun...

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

you said you didn't know anyone who ever stopped a crime with a gun....as if that were some kind of important criteria to be met in order to be valid. Do a search for yourself...hell, youtube has hundreds..if not thousands of CCTV surveillance videos and amateur videos showing armed citizens stopping crimes....but you know that already, right?

Not saying they don't happen. But if they happened millions of times a year id know several people. I don't know any. They are rare. Same reason I dont know anyone who has walked on the moon.

You personally know "millions" of people so you can poll them all?
See any of those thousands of videos I mentioned above?...did you "know" any of those people?...nevertheless they DID prevent crimes/save peoples' lives...and often their OWN...by using a firearm.

 

[Brain357]

.....I don`t know one (1) single person who has ever stopped a crime with a gun...

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

you said you didn't know anyone who ever stopped a crime with a gun....as if that were some kind of important criteria to be met in order to be valid. Do a search for yourself...hell, youtube has hundreds..if not thousands of CCTV surveillance videos and amateur videos showing armed citizens stopping crimes....but you know that already, right?

Not saying they don't happen. But if they happened millions of times a year id know several people. I don't know any. They are rare. Same reason I dont know anyone who has walked on the moon.

You personally know "millions" of people so you can poll them all?
See any of those thousands of videos I mentioned above?...did you "know" any of those people?...nevertheless they DID prevent crimes/save peoples' lives...and often their OWN...by using a firearm.

Sorry you aren't making sense. If the number is 2 million a year then over the last 30 years almost every gun owner should have one. I know many owners and none have one.

There aren't thousands of videos. And if there were, thousands of videos over many years falls far shy of millions a year.

 

[Rotagilla]

So the only reality you accept is if you don't "know" them, it never happened?

I'll venture that you don't "know" anyone who walked on the moon...nevertheless....

I've never stopped a crime by using a firearm...

I've also never put out a fire with a fire extinguisher...I still keep two handy, though.

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

you said you didn't know anyone who ever stopped a crime with a gun....as if that were some kind of important criteria to be met in order to be valid. Do a search for yourself...hell, youtube has hundreds..if not thousands of CCTV surveillance videos and amateur videos showing armed citizens stopping crimes....but you know that already, right?

Not saying they don't happen. But if they happened millions of times a year id know several people. I don't know any. They are rare. Same reason I dont know anyone who has walked on the moon.

You personally know "millions" of people so you can poll them all?
See any of those thousands of videos I mentioned above?...did you "know" any of those people?...nevertheless they DID prevent crimes/save peoples' lives...and often their OWN...by using a firearm.

Sorry you aren't making sense. If the number is 2 million a year then over the last 30 years almost every gun owner should have one. I know many owners and none have one.

There aren't thousands of videos. And if there were, thousands of videos over many years falls far shy of millions a year.

there certainly are thousands of videos of people stopping crimes with their weapons..I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole and quibble over numbers. It doesn't matter that much. The facts are that..whether you "know" them or not....people with weapons have and do save lives and prevent crime.

I'd rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it.....just like a fire extinguisher.

 

[Brain357]

Not many people have walked on the moon. People with DGUs are also rare.

you said you didn't know anyone who ever stopped a crime with a gun....as if that were some kind of important criteria to be met in order to be valid. Do a search for yourself...hell, youtube has hundreds..if not thousands of CCTV surveillance videos and amateur videos showing armed citizens stopping crimes....but you know that already, right?

Not saying they don't happen. But if they happened millions of times a year id know several people. I don't know any. They are rare. Same reason I dont know anyone who has walked on the moon.

You personally know "millions" of people so you can poll them all?
See any of those thousands of videos I mentioned above?...did you "know" any of those people?...nevertheless they DID prevent crimes/save peoples' lives...and often their OWN...by using a firearm.

Sorry you aren't making sense. If the number is 2 million a year then over the last 30 years almost every gun owner should have one. I know many owners and none have one.

There aren't thousands of videos. And if there were, thousands of videos over many years falls far shy of millions a year.

there certainly are thousands of videos of people stopping crimes with their weapons..I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole and quibble over numbers. It doesn't matter that much. The facts are that..whether you "know" them or not....people with weapons have and do save lives and prevent crime.

I'd rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it.....just like a fire extinguisher.

But there are not millions. Based on crime rates and gun ownership it isn't even possible.

Just don't shoot yourself. More people die in accidental shootings than criminals are killed in defense.