Critics of Israel: What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?

[toomuchtime_]

Well, he could open negotiations with Fatah and Abbas, instead of empowering Hamas to create an enemy. But Bibi's an idiot, so do the opposite of what makes sense.


Dumbass, this is probably what Hamas wants.

Everyone is unified now. Wait a couple months when people start asking how Hamas missed this, when Zionist reservists start coming home in body bags because they walked into a Hamas IED.

It will only take a few weeks to retake Gaza.

 

[JoeB131]

It will only take a few weeks to retake Gaza.

It's not a matter of taking it; it's a matter of holding it.

Urban guerilla fighting is going to get old pretty fast.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well, no, that's the kind of thing that leads to war crime trials.

Targeting all males of fighting age? I think not. They have been warned.

Babies weren't thrown out of incubators in Kuwait
Gaddafi didn't give soldiers Viagra to commit mass rapes
Hamas didn't go house to house cutting off babies heads, and Israel's military said they had no evidence of this
The US does starve children with sanctions everyday

Hamas targeted women and children and babies. Just say you support it, save some time.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Urban guerilla fighting is going to get old pretty fast.

But the Hamas death cultists won't.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's not a matter of taking it; it's a matter of holding it.

Urban guerilla fighting is going to get old pretty fast.

The IDF trains hard for urban guerilla fighting. It will all be over in a few weeks.

 

[BackAgain]

Well, he could open negotiations with Fatah and Abbas, instead of empowering Hamas to create an enemy.

I think Hamas is already an enemy, you moron.

But Bibi's an idiot, so do the opposite of what makes sense.

There’s no way a drooling liberoidal hack like you can grasp what makes sense.

Dumbass, this is probably what Hamas wants.

The irony of a dribbling buffoon like you trying to label anybody else as a “dumbass” is profound. Unlike you.

Everyone is unified now. Wait a couple months when people start asking how Hamas missed this, when Zionist reservists start coming home in body bags because they walked into a Hamas IED.

Fuck Hamas. Israel needs to obliterate it.

 

[Markle]

No they don't! That's another bullshit lie!

 

[AZrailwhale]

The borders are the '67 borders. For the "territories" to no longer be occupied, Israel must remove its military and all its Israeli settlers from illegal settlements. Also end the siege on Gaza. I would think Israeli nationals that wanted to live in Palestine, would be granted citizenship.

Let me ask you this, if Israel took over all of Palestine, should they give the Palestinians Israeli citizenship with full rights like their Jewish neighbors?

Actually the borders should be the 1948 borders that the UN approved at partition. The 1967 borders are still within the 1948 borders so Israel should be larger than it is. The pre 1967 borders are the result of Arab aggression in the 1948 war.

 

[justoffal]

So that makes it okay for the Zionist Entity to bomb hospitals and schools and kill civilians?

You are talking about Hamas right?

Zionist?

There is no such thing.

Jo

 

[AZrailwhale]

First off all - it has always been the clear intention of the Zionists since around 1830 (foremost in Russia) to create an own State called Israel. In the land that their God supposedly promised them. Regardless of who had been living there, in absolute majority for the past 2000 years. aka Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian Bedouin-Arabs.

Germany aka Nazi Germany was clearly responsible for the Jewish Holocaust. Something that no one - also not the British, could have been aware off in 1917 - when the Balfour declaration came into play - granting Jews a Homeland in Palestine. Until 1936 basically no significant number of Jews were willing to settle in this barren land. So no one in the Western hemisphere really cared about the Balfour Deceleration.

Those who knew the Zionist Jews and their clear intentions were the Arabs. Who already upon the Balfour deceleration voiced a clear opposition. But the Western hemisphere couldn't be bothered.

Due to the Holocaust - the Jewish people until today are living of a collective Western guilt complex, and especially the Zionists know perfectly how to make use of it.

Britain was aware of this added influx of Jewish immigrants since 1936 and thus knew about the increasing violence in Palestine. That the Mufti of Jerusalem - spokesperson of the Palestinian-Arabs was on great terms with Hitler was also known to them - BTW the later PLO/Fatah leader Arafat was a relative of this Mufti.

Britain made the by far largest mistake in granting Trans-Jordan independence in 1946 as being the Kingdom of Jordan. Thereby reducing British Palestine territory by approximately 70%. Furthermore they did not or simply didn't want to recognize the significant cultural and social difference, between Palestinian-Arabs, mostly urban population, and Bedouin Arabs living now in majority in Jordan and far less in Palestine. The vast majority of land owners in the remaining British Palestine were Bedouin-Arabs due to tribal culture and therefore homeland association since hundreds of years.

However until Ben-Gurion took his chances in 1948 via declaring independence and thus forcefully and via intimidation driving of the urban Palestinian-Arabs - there was no friction between Palestinian-Arabs and Bedouin-Arabs. The Zionist played a very smart/insidious policy via promising Bedouin-Arabs that they could keep their lands in Israel, thus hoping to diminish the influence and anti-Israel stance of the Arab League, whilst driving off the urban Palestinian-Arabs.

The Arab League factually couldn't be bothered by Palestinian-Arabs fleeing - mostly into Jordan, but had already made up it's mind, not to tolerate a Jewish State - naturally taking into account that they would easily defeat the Jews and therefore everything returning back to normal aka just as to before 1917.

As history taught the Zionists prevailed and both, Israelis (independent of further Jewish immigrants) and the Palestinian-Arabs breed like rabbits. Causing today's dilemma that Israel simply isn't large enough to house 9 million Israelis and 14 million Palestinian-Arabs, (total population around 23 million people). No matter how Israel might be partitioned. Not to mention the economic survive-ability of such a country, that until today has received approx. US$ 200 Billion since the 50'ies (non inflation adjusted) and has special trade preference regulations throughout the EU and most of the world, such an Israel simple couldn't sustain/survive.

Israel consists to at least 50% of inhabitable desert, making its livable territory incl. Gaza and the West-bank around 8000ml2 - thus equal in size of Slovenia that houses around 2 million people. - or about 90% the size of Vermont housing 700,000 people.

Even if they would be willing to live together in "harmony" - its economically and territorial non feasible - at least to me.

That leaves basically four possibilities:
1. the Zionist way - keep claiming and occupying Palestinian-Arab lands - kill them off, and let the survivors rot in some neighbor-state.
Most likely the reality.
2. Israel agrees to cede the West-bank to Jordan - thus Jordan&PLO+Hamas finding their own arrangement
Highly unlikely but still possible - depending on the US$ flowing into Jordan.
3. the Jews go back to were they came from - mostly Europe.
Probably the moderate Jews would accept - the Zionist never - if the moderates would leave, the Arabs will replay 1948/9 with the remaining Zionists.
4. e.g. Australia offers the Palestinians 30,000 - 50,000mls2 to start up their own country. Plus a Trillion US$ provided from other countries.
I could imagine that the Palestinian-Arabs in majority, would accept under the agreement that Jerusalem is not Israels capital but remains an open city governed via a Jewish/Palestinian council - or the UN appoints e.g. Switzerland to do the job.
Violence would still continue on a lower scale and the Zionists will make sure that eventually Jerusalem becomes theirs.

The Palestinian state in Australia would eventually prosper - and independent of options 1-4 somewhere in the next 50 years, some Islamic country might very well nuke the shit out of Israel - ignoring their own demise.

Which makes option 3 & 4 in a combination - the highest survival chance for Jewish people.

I think you are delusional. Australia would never accept the Palestinians. Hell their own people won’t accept them. Egypt refused to take Gaza back when Israel returned the Sinai years ago, I doubt Jordan would accept the West Bank unless its inhabitants were moved elsewhere. Plus the Palestinians have been brainwashed for the last fifty years that all of Israel belongs to them and won’t accept anything less.

 

[Mac-7]

Going back to Europe where they came from.

That would be the proper response.

Thats not going to happen

 

[Kondor3]

Going back to Europe where they came from.

That would be the proper response.

The very moment after YOU donate the deed to your house to Native American tribal elders and go back where YOU came from.

After all... you, too, live on land stolen from indigenous populations and benefit from their displacement and conquest.

And your livelihood and the food you consume come from natural resources that actually belong to those Natives, yes?

It's only fair... you need to Lead By Example... show us how to "make it right" with the "proper response", Joe...

Once you're safely back in the Old Country drop us all a line and we'll begin advocating for that solution for Israel.

 

[Kruska]

I think you are delusional. Australia would never accept the Palestinians. Hell their own people won’t accept them. Egypt refused to take Gaza back when Israel returned the Sinai years ago, I doubt Jordan would accept the West Bank unless its inhabitants were moved elsewhere. Plus the Palestinians have been brainwashed for the last fifty years that all of Israel belongs to them and won’t accept anything less.

everything might appear to be delusional - until it is seriously being discussed.

Actually Australia and Madagascar (for the latter no idea why) where in discussion as alternatives for the Jews to British Palestine. And IMO Australia would have been the perfect choice - with Zionist only getting into war and disputes with Australia (at the worlds end) and (depending on where they would have settled) probably also with Indonesia.

Australia is way large enough to split off some lousy 30-50,000ml2. (just 1-1.5% of Australia) If the Australian government agrees towards Israelis or Palestinians to move there, is simply a point off discussion - if the survival of the Jews is taken serious by Australia - they factually need to agree for the Zionists to set up their new county in Australia.

The Palestinian-Arabs haven't been brainwashed at all - it's a fact before Ben-Gurion launched his Zionist occupation, that more then 80% of British Palestine was settled by Palestinian-Arabs.

The only difference between the various Palestinian-Arab organization is that the PLO is the only one that recognized the right of an Israel nation to exist in 1993. And for this they are being robbed of their Westbank land on a daily basis since the past 30 years. Are you therefore surprised/shocked, that e.g. Hamas in power since 2006 in Gaza - refuses to acknowledge Israel?

 

[Kruska]

The very moment after YOU donate the deed to your house to Native American tribal elders and go back where YOU came from.

After all... you, too, live on land stolen from indigenous populations and benefit from their displacement and conquest.

And your livelihood and the food you consume come from natural resources that actually belong to those Natives, yes?

It's only fair... you need to Lead By Example... show us how to "make it right" with the "proper response", Joe...

Once you're safely back in the Old Country drop us all a line and we'll begin advocating for that solution for Israel.

Your comparison is laughable - why?
Because them Injuns don't posses to military capability to wipe out all non-indigenous people living in the USA - the Muslims (regardless of the Palestinian-Arabs) will sooner or later have that capability. Saudi-Arabia likely even before Iran.

 

[Kondor3]

Your comparison is laughable - why?
Because them Injuns don't posses to military capability to wipe out all non-indigenous people living in the USA - the Muslims (regardless of the Palestinian-Arabs) will sooner or later have that capability. Saudi-Arabia likely even before Iran.

Joe and I had been discussing the Property Rights to Old Palestine, and he was claiming that the Jews stole the land.

He further claimed that the Jews should give up their so-called "stolen land" and head back to Europe where they came from.

The military did not factor into that aspect of our exchange.

I am encouraging him to donate his house and land to the Original Owners of HIS land - who had it stolen from them.

The comparison is PRECISELY on-target, with respect to Property Rights, and returning to the Mother Country.

Now, go bother somebody else.

 

[Kruska]

Joe and I had been discussing the Property Rights to Old Palestine, and he was claiming that the Jews stole the land.

He further claimed that the Jews should give up their so-called "stolen land" and head back to Europe where they came from.

The military did not factor into that aspect of our exchange.

I am encouraging him to donate his house and land to the Original Owners of HIS land - who had it stolen from them.

The comparison is PRECISELY on-target, with respect to Property Rights, and returning to the Mother Country.

Now, go bother somebody else.

JoeB131 - is absolutely correct in this matter.

The Topic of this thread is:

What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?​

and the proper response by Israel could have been to announce (and sign) the immediate stop of Zionist's robbing Palestinian-Arab lands - return all seized lands and property in the Westbank as to 1993. A ceasefire lasting for 1-2 month in which the population of Gaza can choose to evacuate into Israel or Egypt - where they will be taken care off with the utmost effort - and Hamas having 1-2 month time to surrender their arms and militia to Israel.

After that Israel needs to go in and secure the place - it needs to stay there till livable and sustainable economic and infrastructure is erected (e.g. 5 years under a joint Israeli-Palestinian administration - foremost to set up a trained and efficient Gaza Police force to hinder further terrorist orgs. from setting up shop. ) therefore to provide Palestinian-Arabs with an economic alternative to being freedom fighters, whilst being cramped up in inhumane conditions in Gaza.

That would be for starters

Now go and bother somebody else.

 

[Shusha]

and the proper response by Israel could have been to announce (and sign) the immediate stop of Zionist's robbing Palestinian-Arab lands - return all seized lands and property in the Westbank as to 1993.

Wait, return all lands and property ... like, um what Israel did with Gaza in 2005? /sarcasm

Seriously, what does this even MEAN? Announce and sign? Sign what? Would you care to provide more clarity about what, specifically, Israel is meant to "return" and to whom, exactly? And under what sort of legal instrument?

 

[USAF 2023]

Going back to Europe where they came from.

That would be the proper response.

Translation; Israel does not have the Right to exist; which is why they’re doing what they’re doing

 

[USAF 2023]

Um, aren't you the one who is absolutely freaked out that some people are immigrating across the Southern border?

Now, imagine if those people were armed, drove you out of your home, and routinely bombed you for shits and grins.



Well, no, not really. Most of the Jews were expelled from Palestine in the second century because the Romans got tired of dealing with their nonsense. The Byzantines inherited the land from the Romans, and the Muslims kick the Byzantines out, but most of the local people were happy to see them go and converted to Islam.



You are the one who leaves big chunks out. The reality is, most of the European Jews had no interest in going to Palestine even after Zionism became a movement. At least not until after WWII.


Seems the Jews wear out their welcome no matter where they go. Palestine, Germany, Russia, Spain. They should probably work on that.

Maybe you can “ explain “ what they do to “ wear out their welcome “

 

[USAF 2023]

He’s one of the worst antisemites on this forum.

And he thinks Jews came from Europe? They were in Israel 1000 years before Jesus was born - long before Mohammed’s great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was born.

He”s too stupid to know the difference