Critics of Israel: What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?

[Frankenstein]

Yes they were. There were over 1 million arabs, compared to 30,000 Zionists at the time of the migration. And you can't move into a neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there!

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

You do not know your History!

A common misperception is that the Jews were forced into the diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 A.D. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. A national language and a distinct civilization have been maintained.​

The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.​

The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what is now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century A.D., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word "Filastin" is derived from this Latin name.​

 

[Frankenstein]

Arabs have lived in Palestine for the last 1400 years. They are the indigenous people.

Certainly more than you are in whatever part of America you live in.

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

A common misperception isthat the Jews were forced into the diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 A.D. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. A national language and a distinct civilization have been maintained.

 

[JoeB131]

Jews were immigrating to Transjordan (modern Jordan and Israel) in the nineteenth century in large numbers and buying the land from the Ottoman landowners.

That's not true, either. By 1890, there were only 43,000 Jews in Palestine, according to Ottoman Census figures. Lower than the number of Christians (57K) and one-tenth the number of Muslims (432K)

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The numbers went up in the tween war years and exploded post WWII since the Jews had nowhere else to go.

Again, not true, as the Jewish population was 175K in 1931 despite British people encouraging immigration. (Again, compared to 760K Muslims)

Even by 1947, it was 630K Jews vs. 1,181K Muslims.

If this was put to a vote, the Jews would have lost.

The post WWII British were no friends to the Jews or the nascent nation of Israel. The UN then decided to further partition Israel into a Muslim statelet and a Jewish statelet that had no defensible borders. After the 1948 war, the UN recognized all the areas conquered by the Muslims as legitimate and made Israel even smaller and harder to defend. After the 1967 was when Israel RECONQUERED those territories the UN refused to recognize the fact and declared them to be occupied areas. The UN has never given Israel fair treatment.

The UN is a large part of the problem, in that it sanctioned the European Squatters taking over someone else's land.

 

[Frankenstein]

That's not true, either. By 1890, there were only 43,000 Jews in Palestine, according to Ottoman Census figures. Lower than the number of Christians (57K) and one-tenth the number of Muslims (432K)

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again, not true, as the Jewish population was 175K in 1931 despite British people encouraging immigration. (Again, compared to 760K Muslims)

Even by 1947, it was 630K Jews vs. 1,181K Muslims.

If this was put to a vote, the Jews would have lost.


The UN is a large part of the problem, in that it sanctioned the European Squatters taking over someone else's land.

It belonged to Israel way before that clown show!

 

[Billo_Really]

It was their land to begin with

Nope. Zionists were only given 55% of the land in Palestine.

 

[Markle]

So that makes it okay for the Zionist Entity to bomb hospitals and schools and kill civilians?

Hamas Issues Statement to Gaza Residents following Warning of Impending Israeli Invasion: Do Not Evacuate from Areas About to be Targeted by Airstrikes​

By Jim Hoft Oct. 10, 2023 6:00 pm

Hamas Issues Statement to Gaza Residents following Warning of Impending Israeli Invasion: Do Not Evacuate from Areas About to be Targeted by Airstrikes | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Pure evil.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[Billo_Really]

Jewish Claim To The Land Of Israel

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

You do not know your History!

A common misperception is that the Jews were forced into the diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 A.D. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. A national language and a distinct civilization have been maintained.​

The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.​

The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what is now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century A.D., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word "Filastin" is derived from this Latin name.​

I don't believe there was a diaspora. I don't think they ever left the area. Same with the Arabs.

 

[Markle]

Yes they were. There were over 1 million arabs, compared to 30,000 Zionists at the time of the migration. And you can't move into a neighborhood and automatically have more rights than the people already living there!

Nonsense.

We have millions of illegal aliens who have crossed our Southern Border and have more rights than the citizens of our country.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's not true, either. By 1890, there were only 43,000 Jews in Palestine, according to Ottoman Census figures. Lower than the number of Christians (57K) and one-tenth the number of Muslims (432K)

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again, not true, as the Jewish population was 175K in 1931 despite British people encouraging immigration. (Again, compared to 760K Muslims)

Even by 1947, it was 630K Jews vs. 1,181K Muslims.

If this was put to a vote, the Jews would have lost.


The UN is a large part of the problem, in that it sanctioned the European Squatters taking over someone else's land.

And then we had to kill so many Ottomans that their empire crumbled. To the Victor go the spoils.

 

[BackAgain]

I wonder if the two brain-celled brain trust of Hamas contemplated the likely reaction of the nation of Israel to the Hamas terrorist attacks against Israel.

I suppose they might have. But, obviously, the “leadershit” of Hamas doesn’t give a rat’s ass about their own people, either.

 

[Billo_Really]

Nonsense.

We have millions of illegal aliens who have crossed our Southern Border and have more rights than the citizens of our country.

No they don't! That's another bullshit lie!

 

[Shusha]

Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. The international community considers these "occupied territories". Israel has no sovereign title to this land.

The Golan Heights is a border dispute with Syria (not Palestinians) and is therefore irrelevant to this discussion. Further, you are factually incorrect that Israel has no sovereign title (claim) to these territories, or that there exist international borders between Israel and Palestine.

but let's forgo that for the moment...

Questions.
1. If it would be of practical benefit for Palestine to adopt a different international border than the ones you claim exist (which we are using for the purposes of this discussion and I assume to be the 1949 Armistice lines), should Palestine consider changing those borders?
2. What conditions would have to exist for any of these territories to be considered "no longer occupied". Can we start with Gaza, since that seems especially relevant?
3. Would Palestinian citizenship be granted to residents within those territories who are of Jewish ethnicity and who may also have Israeli citizenship (dual citizens)?

 

[Darkwind]

Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. The international community considers these "occupied territories". Israel has no sovereign title to this lan

Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. The international community considers these "occupied territories". Israel has no sovereign title to this land.

They are occupied. Arabs occupy them.

 

[Billo_Really]

The Golan Heights is a border dispute with Syria (not Palestinians) and is therefore irrelevant to this discussion. Further, you are factually incorrect that Israel has no sovereign title (claim) to these territories, or that there exist international borders between Israel and Palestine.

but let's forgo that for the moment...

Questions.
1. If it would be of practical benefit for Palestine to adopt a different international border than the ones you claim exist (which we are using for the purposes of this discussion and I assume to be the 1949 Armistice lines), should Palestine consider changing those borders?
2. What conditions would have to exist for any of these territories to be considered "no longer occupied". Can we start with Gaza, since that seems especially relevant?
3. Would Palestinian citizenship be granted to residents within those territories who are of Jewish ethnicity and who may also have Israeli citizenship (dual citizens)?

The borders are the '67 borders. For the "territories" to no longer be occupied, Israel must remove its military and all its Israeli settlers from illegal settlements. Also end the siege on Gaza. I would think Israeli nationals that wanted to live in Palestine, would be granted citizenship.

Let me ask you this, if Israel took over all of Palestine, should they give the Palestinians Israeli citizenship with full rights like their Jewish neighbors?

 

[Billo_Really]

They are occupied. Arabs occupy them.

That's the big lie you like to tell.

 

[Darkwind]

That's the big lie you like to tell.

The big lie is that Israel does not have the right to exist or the right to that land.

They absolutely do.

The lands occupied by the Gazan Arabs, the Arabs in the Golen Heights, and the Arabs in the West Bank, only managed to win concessions to that land from the slaughter of Jews and the immoral pressures brought against Israeal by the UN.

The land is Isreaeli and with the exception of the concessions made to appease terrorism and murder, it is occupied by Arabs.

The Gazan Arabs need to be moved out completely and Hamas utterly destroyed.

 

[Shusha]

The borders are the '67 borders. For the "territories" to no longer be occupied, Israel must remove its military and all its Israeli settlers from illegal settlements. Also end the siege on Gaza. I would think Israeli nationals that wanted to live in Palestine, would be granted citizenship.

Let me ask you this, if Israel took over all of Palestine, should they give the Palestinians Israeli citizenship with full rights like their Jewish neighbors?

The 1949 Armistice Line is not, and can not legally be, an international border (at this time, without further legal steps). Would you reconcile these two statements, as they appear to be contradictory: "remove...Israeli settlers" and "Israeli nationals would be granted citizenship". Would Israeli nationals who wished to reside in Palestine stay and be granted Palestinian citizenship?

Be more specific. What conditions would have to exist for the occupation/siege of Gaza to be recognized as ended?

If Israel re-asserted her claim to all of Israel, everyone would be Israeli citizens with the same rights. Already demonstrated in reality.

 

[Billo_Really]

The big lie is that Israel does not have the right to exist or the right to that land.

They absolutely do.

The lands occupied by the Gazan Arabs, the Arabs in the Golen Heights, and the Arabs in the West Bank, only managed to win concessions to that land from the slaughter of Jews and the immoral pressures brought against Israeal by the UN.

The land is Isreaeli and with the exception of the concessions made to appease terrorism and murder, it is occupied by Arabs.

The Gazan Arabs need to be moved out completely and Hamas utterly destroyed.

First off, states don't have rights, people do. And there is nothing you can say that changes the fact that there was a non-Jewish population of Arabs that was indigenous to the area. Zionists moved there! Arabs (and some Jews) were already there and they have rights.

Gazans ain't going anywhere! You cannot hold onto land seized in a war.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I wonder if the two brain-celled brain trust of Hamas contemplated the likely reaction of the nation of Israel to the Hamas terrorist attacks against Israel.

I suppose they might have. But, obviously, the “leadershit” of Hamas doesn’t give a rat’s ass about their own people, either.

no they dont, why else would the Hamas leaders strap bombs to children and women, then march that bomb right into a bazaar full of people.

Here in the western world, before the Marxists/Demofascists took over, life was considered precious, inside or outside the womb. People wouldnt go out of their way to gun down innocent people who just happened to be out for a fun day at the shopping mall. But since then, just like with Muslims, when you dont have a reason to live, then it is okay to go out and kill others, without feeling a thing, which is why we see not only what is going on in the middle east, but in the inner cities, where the leaders just dont give a damn.


Only when a black person is killed by a white person or policeman, do the Marxists leaders, use the event for political gains.

 

[Billo_Really]

The 1949 Armistice Line is not, and can not legally be, an international border (at this time, without further legal steps). Would you reconcile these two statements, as they appear to be contradictory: "remove...Israeli settlers" and "Israeli nationals would be granted citizenship". Would Israeli nationals who wished to reside in Palestine stay and be granted Palestinian citizenship?

Be more specific. What conditions would have to exist for the occupation/siege of Gaza to be recognized as ended?

If Israel re-asserted her claim to all of Israel, everyone would be Israeli citizens with the same rights. Already demonstrated in reality.

No, they are not contradictory. One is illegal, the other is not. I like to think that either they apply for Palestinian citizenship or apply for resident visas, just like any other foreigner in a country around the world.

"What conditions would have to exist..." are you mental? Figure it out! But you can't bring yourself to blame Israel for any atrocity it commits.

Um, no, the "demonstrated reality" is that Israeli-Arabs are treated like 2nd class citizens. Israel is an apartheid state. You have Jew only communities, Jew only roads, two different judicial systems that give rights to Israeli-Jews, but force Israeli-Arabs to live under marshall law.