Declining moral values

[Zoom-boing]

That only works when children are allowed to be children and parents are the grown ups though.

It is all still the parents and not schools teaching children values.

Parents give children far to much. Children feel entitled to everything now a days. they are living in give it to me now give me more mentality. Of which is the parents fault.

Yep, it is the parent's fault. Why? Simple......it comes from that "my kid is gonna have it better than I did" mentality that a lot of Americans have.

Trouble is, the child doesn't have to work for shit, thus ending up feeling entitled to whatever they want.

My opinion? You've got to work for everything you get, and it doesn't mater if life is hard, that which doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. If people catered to your every whim, brought you soft and easily digestible food, and carried you around all your life?

At age 18, when you are expected to live on your own, you're gonna die, because you have no skills in dealing with failure, nor do you have any idea as to how things work, because you've never had to work for them.

That's not morality by the way, that is simply cause and effect, action and reaction.

Yes, schools should teach about consequences of your actions having an effect on your life, that is what grades are all about.

But a school should NEVER teach morality. That is the realm of religion and should be left as such.

I don't have a problem with children having basic morality reinforced in school but it has to begin and be taught at home, by the parents. By basic morality I mean Commandments 4 through 10 -- seems like basic morality to me anyway. Doesn't matter if you are Christian or not these are basic human rules that everyone should follow and to have it reinforced in school I don't see as a negative. An example would be if Tim stole Bob's ipod (ok, in Zoom's world kids wouldn't be allowed to have ipods and cell phones in school. lol) and the teacher caught Tim and, in addition to punishment (detention, parents notified, etc), Tim was also told by the teacher why it was wrong. She'd be reinforcing what Tim should have already been taught by his parents.

It's really not that complicated to treat others as you would like to be treated either. If parents would just get that through to their kids and people actually practiced it, the world would be a better place, imo.

 

[Modbert]

Is a person homophobic because his or her sense of morality says homosexuality is wrong?

A person is homophobic because in 2010, there is no excuse to have been born, raised, and living in America and still think that Homosexuals don't have morals. Even if your religion tells you otherwise, it should be quite clear to anyone who's not a complete moron that is the case.

 

[chanel]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

 

[Foxfyre]

Are you saying that there is anything on that list that could not possibly include declining moral values or should not be seen that way?

For starters:

Moving away from Religion or the Church from starters. The church does not have a monopoly on morality.

Nobody said it does, but a decline in church attendance and respect for the church's teachings has been accompanied by a sharp increase in STD, promiscuity, broken families, children born out of wedlock, gang membership, social violence, etc. etc. etc. Is there a correlation? I don't know but certainly many people believe that there is or it wouldn't have made the list. Are you smarter than they to say absolutely that there is no correlation?

TV content? Cursing and Sex? Really? Well gee, perhaps it is only reflection of real people in society?

Are you prepared to say that there is no correlation between the behavior of people and what they see on television or in the movies night after night after night? Are you saying that repeated exposure to unrestrained sex, violence, inhumanity of man toward man has no effect on what children view as normal or the way it is?

Porn? Really? Porn is on this list?

So you think it is healthy to become addicted to porn and see no correlation between that and STD, promiscuity, sexual abuse, sex crimes against children etc? Do you think just owning and enjoying child porn should be a crime?

I had to laugh when I got to Abortion. Abortion rates are at some of their lowest levels ever.

But still millions of babies are aborted every year. For those who believe that every one of those babies was a human life, it is a moral issue.

And by the time I got to Gay/Lesbian relations, I just consider this to be a joke.

So anonymous sex in bath houses, etc. or unprotected sex or lewd displays in public parades or whatever reflect solid positive moral values to you? And I say this having a gay God son who I love dearly along with his partner of more than 20 years now and who I don't see as a problem re moral values in any sense at all.

Do you seriously think the fact gay and lesbian couples can now be couples out in public to be a decline in moral values?

I don't see that on the list. Did I miss it?

And then when I got to the internet, I just started to laugh more and more.

So everything on the internet is pure as the driven snow, is in no way corrupting or dangerous or harmful or stupid or immoral in any way? You must lead the most sheltered internet experience of anybody I know.

 

[Modbert]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

Why is respect a moral? The thing is, with so many lines that blur, it's difficult to define what is honesty, respect, charity, and self-control.

Children need morality presented in black and white? And just how old is "think for themselves?"

The thing with children is that if you want to teach them anything, you ingrain it into them when they are young. The reason why so many people look at the world as black and white is that sort of thinking right there. The world is far from black and white, and putting it into that kind of viewpoint helps nobody in the long run.

For example:

"Killing is wrong."

"But what about Daddy? He's in the military/police officer/etc"

"Well he protects people."

"So killing is okay as long as you are protecting someone?"

"Well, yes, no."

"What about the evil men who are being protected? If they kill daddy, is that make it okay?"

See, this is why it's walking a fine line when you define things as black and white.

 

[Avatar4321]

Is a person homophobic because his or her sense of morality says homosexuality is wrong?

A person is homophobic because in 2010, there is no excuse to have been born, raised, and living in America and still think that Homosexuals don't have morals. Even if your religion tells you otherwise, it should be quite clear to anyone who's not a complete moron that is the case.

That's completely irrelevant to the question

 

[logical4u]

Fuck off.

you dont want to debate any of the facts you just want to pull the debate into the idots range that you can understand.

This study clearly shows smaller schools are the ones with the track record of teaching kids sucessfully.

The logical thing to do is to do what has been proven to work.

Why would nay of you tainwallows want to do things that have no record of working?

Because you dont give a rats ass about the success of this country.

You only care about tax cuts and supporting any stupid failed idea that your masters tell you to support.

Is it me folks or cant she get off the soap box of schools??

BINGO, we have a winner! (it was fun watching the steam, though)

 

[Avatar4321]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

Children aren't the only ones who need it. Adults do too.

And it's why I've been trying to get discussions on virtue going.

 

[Si modo]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

I agree, but I think you will like this, chanel. Also, do a site search for boomerang there and read those, too.

If the lower schools (junior and high schools) could hang onto a singleness of purpose and leave the morality to the family, then higher education wouldn't be the disaster it is now, too. IMO.

 

[Luissa]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

I don't really want someone like you telling my child what morals are.

My parents taught me to except everyone, no matter if they were gay or a minority. My parents never said one bad thing about homosexuals. And if someone tries to teach my child that homosexuals are immoral, I will have a big problem with it.
My best friend is gay, and he would never hurt anyone, and he sure as hell wouldn't pass judgement on someone the way you do.

 

[Luissa]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

Children aren't the only ones who need it. Adults do too.

And it's why I've been trying to get discussions on virtue going.

Why? Because you say so?
Everyone is different, and everyone has different values.
It also isn't 1950 either.

 

[hjmick]

Is a person homophobic because his or her sense of morality says homosexuality is wrong?

A person is homophobic because in 2010, there is no excuse to have been born, raised, and living in America and still think that Homosexuals don't have morals. Even if your religion tells you otherwise, it should be quite clear to anyone who's not a complete moron that is the case.

I disagree, respectfully.

I believe that there are some people whose morals, taught to them through the church, truly believe that homosexuality is immoral and therefore those who are homosexual themselves lack morals. While you and I do not agree with this idea, it does not make those who harbor such beliefs homophobic out of hand. Sure, some are, of that there can be no doubt, but not all.

 

[Si modo]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

I don't really want someone like you telling my child what morals are.

My parents taught me to except everyone, no matter if they were gay or a minority. My parents never said one bad thing about homosexuals. And if someone tries to teach my child that homosexuals are immoral, I will have a big problem with it.
My best friend is gay, and he would never hurt anyone, and he sure as hell wouldn't pass judgement on someone the way you do.

I'm wondering what homoseuality has to do with what chanel typed?

 

[logical4u]

We always yearn for the moral values of the past while decrying the lack of moral values today

If you go back 50 years, the moral values allowed

- Discriminating against blacks
- Discrimination against gays
- Tolerance of Domestic violence
- Blaming rape on the victim
- Child beating
- Open destruction of the environment

Sorry...I prefer today

Today:

- Discriminating against Christians
- Discrimination against Jews
- Tolerance of Domestic violence, still
- Blaming rape on the victim, still (especially if the rapist is 'somebody' in the liberal's book, Bill Clinton or Roman Polanski)
- Child extermination (abortion)
- Open destruction of human society

 

[Modbert]

I disagree, respectfully.

I believe that there are some people whose morals, taught to them through the church, truly believe that homosexuality is immoral and therefore those who are homosexual themselves lack morals. While you and I do not agree with this idea, it does not make those who harbor such beliefs homophobic out of hand. Sure, some are, of that there can be no doubt, but not all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't people out there who don't truly believe it's wrong. There are people out there who truly believe it, I just think they're wrong.

I'm just saying they don't have a excuse for their ignorance, as you seem to agree with me on.

 

[Modbert]

Nobody said it does, but with a decline in church attendance and respect for the church's teachings has been accompanied by a sharp increase in STD, promiscuity, broken families, children born out of wedlock, gang membership, social violence, etc. etc. etc. Is there a correlation? I don't know but certainly many people believe that there is or it wouldn't have made the list. Are you smarter than they to say absolutely that there is no correlation?

Are you prepared to say that there is no correlation between the behavior of people and what they see on television or in the movies night after night after night? Are you saying that repeated exposure to unrestrained sex, violence, inhumanity of man toward man has no effect on what children view as normal or the way it is?

So you think it is healthy to become addicted to porn and see no correlation between that and STD, promiscuity, sexual abuse, sex crimes against children etc? Do you think just owning and enjoying child porn should be a crime?

So anonymous sex in bath houses, etc. or unprotected sex or lewd displays in public parades or whatever reflect solid positive moral values to you? And I say this having a gay God son who I love dearly along with his partner of more than 20 years now and who I don't see as a problem re moral values in any sense at all.

I don't see that on the list. Did I miss it?

So everything on the internet is pure as the driven snow, is in no way corrupting or dangerous or harmful or stupid or immoral in any way? You must lead the most sheltered internet experience of anybody I know.

You ever think there was a rise in STD rates, promiscuity, gang membership, because of a little thing called poverty? There was STDs, gangs, and people who had sex freely long before church membership went down. Hell, when the pope use to run the world, these things were even more rampant than they are now.

As for television, violence, etc. I blame those who do not teach their children the difference between fiction and non-fiction. I could watch Scarface a hundred times in a row, but I'm not about to go and kill people while doing massive amounts of drugs.

Now, I think you're being dishonest. Porn and addiction to porn is two different things. Everything in moderation. However, those addicted to porn as studies have shown I believe are less likely to be violent because they have those outlets. As for child pornography, don't be ignorant. Child Pornography should be and is illegal because it's children. Not only do they know the implications of their actions in such a case but are not old enough to give their go ahead legally. Never mind how morally wrong it is.

You must of missed the lesbian/gay relation thing, it's on that list. As for sex in bath houses, what are you living in the 80's still?

Finally, as for the internet, I laugh because people want to blame the internet for troubles. All the internet is a tool. How people use that tool is all up to them. The internet doesn't corrupt anyone, the content on it can be harmful because people don't take necessary action beforehand. I also never said everything on the internet is pure as driven snow, so I would like that you don't put words in my mouth in such a ignorant manner.

I get bored with the whole "It's the internet's fault!". No, it's not the internet's fault. It's just another case of people looking for a scapegoat instead of wanting to look in the mirror and take some damn responsibility for once in their lives.

 

[Si modo]

Nobody said it does, but with a decline in church attendance and respect for the church's teachings has been accompanied by a sharp increase in STD, promiscuity, broken families, children born out of wedlock, gang membership, social violence, etc. etc. etc. Is there a correlation? I don't know but certainly many people believe that there is or it wouldn't have made the list. Are you smarter than they to say absolutely that there is no correlation?

Are you prepared to say that there is no correlation between the behavior of people and what they see on television or in the movies night after night after night? Are you saying that repeated exposure to unrestrained sex, violence, inhumanity of man toward man has no effect on what children view as normal or the way it is?

So you think it is healthy to become addicted to porn and see no correlation between that and STD, promiscuity, sexual abuse, sex crimes against children etc? Do you think just owning and enjoying child porn should be a crime?

So anonymous sex in bath houses, etc. or unprotected sex or lewd displays in public parades or whatever reflect solid positive moral values to you? And I say this having a gay God son who I love dearly along with his partner of more than 20 years now and who I don't see as a problem re moral values in any sense at all.

I don't see that on the list. Did I miss it?

So everything on the internet is pure as the driven snow, is in no way corrupting or dangerous or harmful or stupid or immoral in any way? You must lead the most sheltered internet experience of anybody I know.

You ever think there was a rise in STD rates, promiscuity, gang membership, because of a little thing called poverty? There was STDs, gangs, and people who had sex freely long before church membership went down. Hell, when the pope use to run the world, these things were even more rampant than they are now.

As for television, violence, etc. I blame those who do not teach their children the difference between fiction and non-fiction. I could watch Scarface a hundred times in a row, but I'm not about to go and kill people while doing massive amounts of drugs.

Now, I think you're being dishonest. Porn and addiction to porn is two different things. Everything in moderation. However, those addicted to porn as studies have shown I believe are less likely to be violent because they have those outlets. As for child pornography, don't be ignorant. Child Pornography should be and is illegal because it's children. Not only do they know the implications of their actions in such a case but are not old enough to give their go ahead legally.

You must of missed the lesbian/gay relation thing, it's on that list. As for sex in bath houses, what are you living in the 80's still?

Finally, as for the internet, I laugh because people want to blame the internet for troubles. All the internet is a tool. How people use that tool is all up to them. The internet doesn't corrupt anyone, the content on it can be harmful because people don't take necessary action beforehand. I also never said everything on the internet is pure as driven snow, so I would like that you don't put words in my mouth in such a ignorant manner.

I get bored with the whole "It's the internet's fault!". No, it's not the internet's fault. It's just another case of people looking for a scapegoat instead of wanting to look in the mirror and take some damn responsibility for once in their pitiful lives.

Still trolling, kid? Or, are you still hoping that no one will notice that you seem to think your typed words hold more weight about demographics than Gallup's?

 

[Luissa]

It amazes me that adults in this country cannot even agree on a handful of virtues that separates man from beast. How about honesty, integrity, hard work, respect, charity, self control..? Nope - I guess that's all subjective these days. No wonder young people are so confused. Moral relativism is killing our kids. No one is a saint but without guidelines and role models, they don't stand a chance. Children need morality presented in black and white until they are old enough to "think for themselves" Sheez, Child psychology 101.

Oh and that's not just the school's job truthmattersnot.

I don't really want someone like you telling my child what morals are.

My parents taught me to except everyone, no matter if they were gay or a minority. My parents never said one bad thing about homosexuals. And if someone tries to teach my child that homosexuals are immoral, I will have a big problem with it.
My best friend is gay, and he would never hurt anyone, and he sure as hell wouldn't pass judgement on someone the way you do.

I'm wondering what homoseuality has to do with what chanel typed?

who posted the OP?

 

[Si modo]

I don't really want someone like you telling my child what morals are.

My parents taught me to except everyone, no matter if they were gay or a minority. My parents never said one bad thing about homosexuals. And if someone tries to teach my child that homosexuals are immoral, I will have a big problem with it.
My best friend is gay, and he would never hurt anyone, and he sure as hell wouldn't pass judgement on someone the way you do.

I'm wondering what homoseuality has to do with what chanel typed?

who posted the OP?

You responded to what you quoted and the OP is from Gallup.

So, I'm still wondering.

 

[Modbert]

Still trolling, kid? Or, are you still hoping that no one will notice that you seem to think your typed words hold more weight about demographics than Gallup's?

Oh hey there Modo, have a better day today?