Dem introduces bills to eliminate electoral college, stop presidents from pardoning themselves

[kyzr]

If the EC was replaced with a popular vote the US would be broken up into many regions with regional parties and regional candidates, essentially becoming a "jungle primary". No one would win a "majority" of votes unless the election was a two step process with a runoff between the top two candidates. Look at the 1968 election map, CA was Republican, TX was democrat, and the deep south was 3rd party. Voters are not locked into anything
1968 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

You forgot to make the case for why that would be a bad thing.

Oh and this isn't 1968 any more. Check your calendar.

The point is, in ~50 years you will be saying that it's not 2019 any more, and you will be puzzled at how the presidential map looked like it did. The EC stood and stands the tests of time, that was the genius of the Founding Fathers.

Counting enslaved people as three-fifths of a person while awarding them zero-fifths of a vote is "genius", is it?

Can we get a definition for "retarded" then? Like to know what our choices are here.

Meanwhile, you didn't address the point. At all.

1. Having regional candidates and a "jungle primary" vote for president would eliminate your main point of having a popular vote winner. Main point was addressed.
2. Slavery was the norm until it wasn't. Slaves built the pyramids and were used as cheap labor throughout history. Trying to apply today's norms to ancient times is ridiculous. Having the Taliban view of the confederacy is very intolerant.
3. The Founding Fathers did a remarkably good job creating the USA, especially considering that amendments keep the Constitution and the country intact.

No stupid. Slaves did not build the pyramids. Go get some education before you start talking.

If the EC was replaced with a popular vote the US would be broken up into many regions with regional parties and regional candidates, essentially becoming a "jungle primary". No one would win a "majority" of votes unless the election was a two step process with a runoff between the top two candidates. Look at the 1968 election map, CA was Republican, TX was democrat, and the deep south was 3rd party. Voters are not locked into anything
1968 United States presidential election - Wikipedia

You forgot to make the case for why that would be a bad thing.

Oh and this isn't 1968 any more. Check your calendar.

The point is, in ~50 years you will be saying that it's not 2019 any more, and you will be puzzled at how the presidential map looked like it did. The EC stood and stands the tests of time, that was the genius of the Founding Fathers.

Counting enslaved people as three-fifths of a person while awarding them zero-fifths of a vote is "genius", is it?

Can we get a definition for "retarded" then? Like to know what our choices are here.

Meanwhile, you didn't address the point. At all.

1. Having regional candidates and a "jungle primary" vote for president would eliminate your main point of having a popular vote winner. Main point was addressed.

Actually I've posted nothing about having a popular vote. You addressed a point I didn't make. Might want to re-read.

2. Slavery was the norm until it wasn't. Slaves built the pyramids and were used as cheap labor throughout history. Trying to apply today's norms to ancient times is ridiculous. Having the Taliban view of the confederacy is very intolerant.

No idea what a "Taliban view of the Confederacy" (it's capitalized as a proper name) means or how it's supposed to be "intolerant" ----- nor (again) did I bring up the Confederacy at all ---- but the fact is the EC was drawn up specifically counting slaves as three-fifths of a person for the purpose of apportioning political power, and were given zero-fifths of a vote while being so counted. That's historical fact and there's nothing you can do to change it now. And it goes back to the purpose of that body. You'll notice --- in fact you already made the point ---- that such slavery no longer exists. Whelp ... there goes one of the EC's main functions. I should say, "there went". Back in 1865.

3. The Founding Fathers did a remarkably good job creating the USA, especially considering that amendments keep the Constitution and the country intact.

Another address of a point I didn't make.

OK, so the only point of contention is that the EC was was drawn up specifically just to count slaves as 3/5 of a person and no vote. My contention is that the EC was created
as per below, which has zero to do with slaves:

Why the Electoral College
"The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.


The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:"

Additional reading: U. S. Electoral College, Official - What is the Electoral College?

 

[WEATHER53]

When you cheat but still lose then libs want to do away with the method that permitted victory for your opponent. Too much participation trophies, us contributing meat eaters learned how to cope with wins and losses by age 9.
Trump is beholden to Mericans and not Mexicans.

 

[Pogo]

You forgot to make the case for why that would be a bad thing.

Oh and this isn't 1968 any more. Check your calendar.

The point is, in ~50 years you will be saying that it's not 2019 any more, and you will be puzzled at how the presidential map looked like it did. The EC stood and stands the tests of time, that was the genius of the Founding Fathers.

Counting enslaved people as three-fifths of a person while awarding them zero-fifths of a vote is "genius", is it?

Can we get a definition for "retarded" then? Like to know what our choices are here.

Meanwhile, you didn't address the point. At all.

1. Having regional candidates and a "jungle primary" vote for president would eliminate your main point of having a popular vote winner. Main point was addressed.
2. Slavery was the norm until it wasn't. Slaves built the pyramids and were used as cheap labor throughout history. Trying to apply today's norms to ancient times is ridiculous. Having the Taliban view of the confederacy is very intolerant.
3. The Founding Fathers did a remarkably good job creating the USA, especially considering that amendments keep the Constitution and the country intact.

No stupid. Slaves did not build the pyramids. Go get some education before you start talking.

You forgot to make the case for why that would be a bad thing.

Oh and this isn't 1968 any more. Check your calendar.

The point is, in ~50 years you will be saying that it's not 2019 any more, and you will be puzzled at how the presidential map looked like it did. The EC stood and stands the tests of time, that was the genius of the Founding Fathers.

Counting enslaved people as three-fifths of a person while awarding them zero-fifths of a vote is "genius", is it?

Can we get a definition for "retarded" then? Like to know what our choices are here.

Meanwhile, you didn't address the point. At all.

1. Having regional candidates and a "jungle primary" vote for president would eliminate your main point of having a popular vote winner. Main point was addressed.

Actually I've posted nothing about having a popular vote. You addressed a point I didn't make. Might want to re-read.

2. Slavery was the norm until it wasn't. Slaves built the pyramids and were used as cheap labor throughout history. Trying to apply today's norms to ancient times is ridiculous. Having the Taliban view of the confederacy is very intolerant.

No idea what a "Taliban view of the Confederacy" (it's capitalized as a proper name) means or how it's supposed to be "intolerant" ----- nor (again) did I bring up the Confederacy at all ---- but the fact is the EC was drawn up specifically counting slaves as three-fifths of a person for the purpose of apportioning political power, and were given zero-fifths of a vote while being so counted. That's historical fact and there's nothing you can do to change it now. And it goes back to the purpose of that body. You'll notice --- in fact you already made the point ---- that such slavery no longer exists. Whelp ... there goes one of the EC's main functions. I should say, "there went". Back in 1865.

3. The Founding Fathers did a remarkably good job creating the USA, especially considering that amendments keep the Constitution and the country intact.

Another address of a point I didn't make.

OK, so the only point of contention is that the EC was was drawn up specifically just to count slaves as 3/5 of a person and no vote. My contention is that the EC was created
as per below, which has zero to do with slaves:

Why the Electoral College
"The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.


The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:"

Additional reading: U. S. Electoral College, Official - What is the Electoral College?

Slave Power, we've already dispensed with that part. You just alluded to it in your "second part of the structure" above. I accept your concession; yes, awarding "extra power" to the smaller (and bigger) states was exactly what the infamous Three-Fifths Compromise did, and that as we just said is no longer in play.

Now let's go to the next paragraph.

They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power.​

Whelp -- it would seem that particular purpose is not being served at all, wouldn't it.

So on the one hand we've got a scheme to award extra power to states with slaves, which oh wait don't exist any more, and on the other hand we've got a checks-and-balances device to second-guess the popular vote in case the people get bamboozled, which is doing nothing toward that end.

Tell me again what we have left.

 

[JoeB131]

Even if true (doubtful), doesn't matter. You are as anti-American as they come. Hop on to your utopia, this country clearly isn't for you.

I'd love to have the country I grew up in back... the one where we had a unionized middle class and people didn't have to work three jobs to make ends meet.

Can we get back to that country, please?

 

[JoeB131]

You fielded a broke dick candidate that only "appealed" to big democrat Vote Manufacturing cities; that's EXACTLY what the EC was designed to prevent from becoming President of the United States

Uh, guy, Cities are where the people live... I know this is a difficult concept for you to get... but winning in vast areas of emptiness where people fuck their cousins is not going to make the country better.

You inbred fucks should be happy us big city folks are subsidizing your lifestyle.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You fielded a broke dick candidate that only "appealed" to big democrat Vote Manufacturing cities; that's EXACTLY what the EC was designed to prevent from becoming President of the United States

Uh, guy, Cities are where the people live... I know this is a difficult concept for you to get... but winning in vast areas of emptiness where people fuck their cousins is not going to make the country better.

It certainly prevented a disaster in the most recent case.

 

[JoeB131]

They have to repeal the 12th amendment. Goddamn they are STUPID

That would probably be the best way to do it.

An easier way to do it would be to have states pass laws that award their electors on the basis of who wins the national popular vote.

The solution that would work best... go to a system like France has, that it's the national popular vote, but if no one gets over 50%, you have a run-off election.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You fielded a broke dick candidate that only "appealed" to big democrat Vote Manufacturing cities; that's EXACTLY what the EC was designed to prevent from becoming President of the United States

Uh, guy, Cities are where the people live... I know this is a difficult concept for you to get... but winning in vast areas of emptiness where people fuck their cousins is not going to make the country better.

You inbred fucks should be happy us big city folks are subsidizing your lifestyle.

Progressives hate America, they hate the Constitution, they hate rural America, they hate the middle class, they hate the entire country when their not running it

 

[Norman]

Even if true (doubtful), doesn't matter. You are as anti-American as they come. Hop on to your utopia, this country clearly isn't for you.

I'd love to have the country I grew up in back... the one where we had a unionized middle class and people didn't have to work three jobs to make ends meet.

Can we get back to that country, please?

We should go back to the country where you were actually working any job at all indeed.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They have to repeal the 12th amendment. Goddamn they are STUPID

That would probably be the best way to do it.

An easier way to do it would be to have states pass laws that award their electors on the basis of who wins the national popular vote.

An end-run around the Constitution. Won't get past SCOTUS if someone brings a case.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You fielded a broke dick candidate that only "appealed" to big democrat Vote Manufacturing cities; that's EXACTLY what the EC was designed to prevent from becoming President of the United States

Uh, guy, Cities are where the people live... I know this is a difficult concept for you to get... but winning in vast areas of emptiness where people fuck their cousins is not going to make the country better.

You inbred fucks should be happy us big city folks are subsidizing your lifestyle.

Progressives hate America, they hate the Constitution, they hate rural America, they hate the middle class, they hate the entire country when their not running it

Read their stuff. They hate themselves as well.

 

[EverCurious]

I will throw every penny I own into Alaska defecting from the US for breech of contract if they get rid of EC... NY and CA would utterly destroy my state if they held all the cards.

 

[22lcidw]

You fielded a broke dick candidate that only "appealed" to big democrat Vote Manufacturing cities; that's EXACTLY what the EC was designed to prevent from becoming President of the United States

Uh, guy, Cities are where the people live... I know this is a difficult concept for you to get... but winning in vast areas of emptiness where people fuck their cousins is not going to make the country better.

You inbred fucks should be happy us big city folks are subsidizing your lifestyle.

The EC was the opposite in the 19th century as rural areas hekd ore sway then urban areas. one thing about those empty areas. Fruit and vegetables, beef, pork, chicken and other meats, oil, coal and power plants of other energy sources, minerals, whats left of manufacturing, and much more come from there. Now there are finely trained people in the cities as we know. But most of the jobs are paper pushing compared to the rural areas.

 

[JoeB131]

Progressives hate America, they hate the Constitution, they hate rural America, they hate the middle class, they hate the entire country when their not running it

Naw, man... The people who've fucked the middle class are the Conservatives...

You see, those union guys were making a decent middle class living, until you guys fucked it up with "Right to Work", "At Will Employment", and a bunch of other awful ideas that put us all one step from the unemployment line.

The problem is, you guys are too stupid to realize that you are doing this to yourself. You really think rich guys like Romney and Trump who made their fortunes screwing working people really care about you because you share a skin tone.

(Although Trump's skin tone isn't found in nature, but never mind.)

 

[JoeB131]

The EC was the opposite in the 19th century as rural areas hekd ore sway then urban areas. one thing about those empty areas. Fruit and vegetables, beef, pork, chicken and other meats, oil, coal and power plants of other energy sources, minerals, whats left of manufacturing, and much more come from there. Now there are finely trained people in the cities as we know. But most of the jobs are paper pushing compared to the rural areas.

actually, most of what is done in the rural areas is done by machines now.. that's the point.

Which is why only 3% live in the rural areas, and the government has to subsidize them to do so.

 

[JoeB131]

An end-run around the Constitution. Won't get past SCOTUS if someone brings a case.

Maybe. Maybe not. But it would be kind of hard to unseat a president after they had been seated that way.

Again, best solution would be to amend the constitution to get rid of this 18th century anachronism.

 

[JoeB131]

I will throw every penny I own into Alaska defecting from the US for breech of contract if they get rid of EC... NY and CA would utterly destroy my state if they held all the cards.

yeah, but then who would write welfare checks to the Meth Heads in Wasilla?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Progressives hate America, they hate the Constitution, they hate rural America, they hate the middle class, they hate the entire country when their not running it

Naw, man... The people who've fucked the middle class are the Conservatives...

You see, those union guys were making a decent middle class living, until you guys fucked it up with "Right to Work", "At Will Employment", and a bunch of other awful ideas that put us all one step from the unemployment line.

The problem is, you guys are too stupid to realize that you are doing this to yourself. You really think rich guys like Romney and Trump who made their fortunes screwing working people really care about you because you share a skin tone.

(Although Trump's skin tone isn't found in nature, but never mind.)

blah blah blah same moronic crap. show me one fucking Union in a Progressive country.

Dems will get wiped down to a rounding error

 

[CrusaderFrank]

America rejected Progressive crap so Progressive want to fuck over America. Hillary won one state by 4MM votes including 5 million illegals and dead people voting. Progressive that means they get to run the country.

Fuck off!

 

[Rustic]

Even if true (doubtful), doesn't matter. You are as anti-American as they come. Hop on to your utopia, this country clearly isn't for you.

I'd love to have the country I grew up in back... the one where we had a unionized middle class and people didn't have to work three jobs to make ends meet.

Can we get back to that country, please?

Unions are all about corruption