Democracy is the road to socialism

Votto

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2012
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These were the words of Karl Marx. He once said, "Democracy is the road to socialism".

The idea being that eventually the masses would rise up and strip the top 1 or 4% of everything they had by mob rule. This was the way to empower the average citizen.

However, collectivism does not empower the average citizen. Collectivism does the exact opposite. For you see, in order for collectivism to work, the individual must surrender certain rights for the good of the whole. That is why the Constitution is so repugnant to modern day liberals. They wish us to give up our right to a free market in order to redistribute the way they think is fair. They wish us to surrender our right to privacy that was thought to be covered under the 4rth Amendment, all in the name of our collective safety. In fact, they are willing to surrender our right to due process under the NDAA by allowing the government to detain us without due process covered in the Constitution, all in the name of our collective security. Their is not end to this collective push to diminish individual rights for the common good.

What we need to start doing is asking ourselves, what are our rights under any given collectivist policy? What is my right to health care? Well it all depends what is offered. Medicare turns down more people for medical treatment than private insurance. What is my right to social security? There are no promises as to how much we will get or if it will even be there when we retire. All of these "rights" are merely the whims of those in power at any particular time.

And finally, the irony here is that collectivism is actually at odds with democracy. Democracy implies that our votes count. However, the more centralized government becomes, the less input I have into that said system. In fact, if we wanted a true representative democracy, then we would push for more power to our local governments. Unfortunately, we are stuck with a system that empowers Congressmen and women in the other 49 states to have power over me that I cannot even vote for or against. That is why Congress now only has about a 9% approval rating. People elect their one representative because they are good at taking federal funds for their own state, but hat the other 49 states that take their federal money for the other states. Thus they keep electing their guy while detesting the others. It was never meant to be this way and was not set up this way by the Founding Fathers. State rights have been gutted and we are left with a representative body with only a 9% approval rating. That is our modern day democracy.

To sum up, collectivism only works as an oligarchy or dictatorship. The goal is not only to diminish your own personal freedom and rights, all in the name of the collective good, it is also a movement that seeks to diminish the power of your vote in that system by centralizing power rule by elitists that could really care less about your meaningless vote.
 
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There has not been anything like a free market in this country in over 100 years. Unless we have hard currency the entire marketplace is manipulated. With government backed fractional reserve banking fiat currency you must have strong fair tax & regulation.

Otherwise people who actually work, invent, innovate, discover & create richer better lives & wealth for themselves & everyone else have it all stolen away by Wallstreet. That kills work, motivation, invention, innovation & discovery. All energy & talent goes into protecting wealth & trying to take it from others. Nothing useful gets done. Manipulation, bribery, privileged loopholes rifle through the economy stealing the wealth from the productive.
 
There has not been anything like a free market in this country in over 100 years. Unless we have hard currency the entire marketplace is manipulated. With government backed fractional reserve banking fiat currency you must have strong fair tax & regulation.

Otherwise people who actually work, invent, innovate, discover & create richer better lives & wealth for themselves & everyone else have it all stolen away by Wallstreet. That kills work, motivation, invention, innovation & discovery. All energy & talent goes into protecting wealth & trying to take it from others. Nothing useful gets done. Manipulation, bribery, privileged loopholes rifle through the economy stealing the wealth from the productive.

I was expecting some refutation of what I asserted. Oh well.

Yes, there has not been a free market in this country for 100 years. Progressivism started at the turn of the 20th century that ushered in the Great Depression. Every aspect of the economy is tinkered with and manipulated. And when it goes awry, like during the recent economic collapse, then we collectively give our trillions of dollars in tax money to bail them out.

Your whole speculation as to how these trillions of dollars are better spent or kept is purely based upon speculation and bias. I can you one thing, no one really knows for sure where all that stimulus money went. How then can we assess its investment value?
 
There has not been anything like a free market in this country in over 100 years. Unless we have hard currency the entire marketplace is manipulated. With government backed fractional reserve banking fiat currency you must have strong fair tax & regulation.

Hong Kong & Singapore.
 
I've never heard anything to suggest that Marx was in favor of democracy at all

Karl Marx - Wikiquote

The 'democracy is the path to communism' meme seems to have been started by a right-winger:

"Just as a figure like Bismarck once rightfully described liberalism as the pacesetter of Social Democracy, Democracy and the Center are today the pacesetters of Bolshevism"
-- Adolf Hitler; from proclamation to Nazi Party (January 1, 1932)
 
Too bad you don't know what non dupes know socialism to be. You're talking about COMMUNISM, which no one in the USA wants. Socialism is by definition democratic, is just well regulated capitalism with a few necessary for living industries nationalized, like post, health, and energy in some cases.. But carry on, fear mongered, brainwashed cold war dinosaur...
 
Too bad you don't know what non dupes know socialism to be. You're talking about COMMUNISM, which no one in the USA wants. Socialism is by definition democratic, is just well regulated capitalism with a few necessary for living industries nationalized, like post, health, and energy in some cases.. But carry on, fear mongered, brainwashed cold war dinosaur...

Dumbfuck alert.
 
Too bad you don't know what non dupes know socialism to be. You're talking about COMMUNISM, which no one in the USA wants. Socialism is by definition democratic, is just well regulated capitalism with a few necessary for living industries nationalized, like post, health, and energy in some cases.. But carry on, fear mongered, brainwashed cold war dinosaur...

Dumbfuck alert.

Truth hurts, eh, dumkoff? I have a Masters in World History, U. of Rochester. You?
 
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Too bad you don't know what non dupes know socialism to be. You're talking about COMMUNISM, which no one in the USA wants. Socialism is by definition democratic, is just well regulated capitalism with a few necessary for living industries nationalized, like post, health, and energy in some cases.. But carry on, fear mongered, brainwashed cold war dinosaur...

Let's just call it collectivism, shall we? There are lots of different flavors such as communism, socialism, fascism, progressivism etc. No matter the type of collectivism, I think that Marx assumed that mob rule would cause the masses to rise up and strip the wealthy of their wealth. Don't we see this to some degree or another today in the worlds democracies?
 
I've never heard anything to suggest that Marx was in favor of democracy at all

Karl Marx - Wikiquote

That's because you rely on wikiquotes as a credible source of information. If you've read the Communist Manifesto, which was co-authored by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, you would have read pages upon pages about how Democracy was very essential to communist society.

The 'democracy is the path to communism' meme seems to have been started by a right-winger:

"Just as a figure like Bismarck once rightfully described liberalism as the pacesetter of Social Democracy, Democracy and the Center are today the pacesetters of Bolshevism"
-- Adolf Hitler; from proclamation to Nazi Party (January 1, 1932)

You are right about one thing: Most powerful dictators throughout history has gained power through some form of democracy. Adolf Hitler, Julius Caesar, Napoleon. Which is interesting why progressives are so eager to preserve American 'Democracy.'
 
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Marx is proven BS, dupes. The revolution of the proletariat was derailed by their embourgeoisement- mainly thru the progressive and union movements. A few more years of Reaganism and there could be a revolt, but it certainly won't be a communist one.
 

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