Democrat Racism

[sealybobo]

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

I really can't argue with anything you say. So then you all need to start becoming more independent and using that money you spend to influence more power.

And get those poor bastards to vote. If Republicans see 80% of the black community voted, they'd start catering to it that I can promise you.

But one thing. You think that us whites need to have bars on our windows? That's funny shit. But I guess I live in a very safe white community. You must be talking about poor white communities. Sure rapes happen in rich white neighborhoods too occasionally or burglaries but not so much that the entire community bars up their windows and doors.

I found people discussing these bars on windows in Detroit:
OK, Ive lived a few places, but have never seen a community so upset w crime, but so against security bars on windows as detroit. Yes they can be a bit of an eyesore, but Im wondering my they arent more widely used in detroit w as much crime as is talked about. Here in L.A. you even see them in decent neighborhoods. Can anyone enlighten me why detroit isnt more open to them? My home has them and I feel alot better at home or away knowing Ive at least got something to slow them down if they choose to break in.
detroit hates security bars?

I'm surprised to hear you say you rarely saw them. I know one person who claims to have made a fortune selling them in Detroit throughout the 80s and 90s. (Then again, I didn't have any on anyplace I lived back then!)

Ive grown fond of my bars, and will apply them if and when i return to the BIG D
Wow. I can't imagine becoming "fond" of security bars, and if I felt I needed them when I returned, I wouldn't be returning.
I'm not sure what's more strange - the fact that you've been gone 16 years yet make a general statement about a place where you don't live, or the fact that you say this despite there being tens of thousands of homes in the city with bars on all their windows and doors.

In some neighborhoods, nearly every home on the street has iron bars.

Because Detroit is so safe? LOL

Aesthetics aren't even the point. When a neighborhood is so dangerous that you need to have security bars on the windows, it's no longer good enough to live in, and it's time to get the heck out of there. Period.

I've always made a rule to NEVER live in an area of the city so bad that there are bars on the upper windows. On the basement windows or a security door I can get to. We have security doors and door gates and glass blocks for the basement windows. BUT I am not living anywhere with bars at the first floor main window. Absolutely not.

88 percent of the blacks who voted in the last election voted for Clinton. Blacks ran for offices in record numbers in 2018. We vote. We need more representation. And like I said, you live in gated communities and talk about bars on windows. Even in those gated communities, whites get robbed, raped and beaten more. I lived in a black community in a city and we had no bars on windows. You exaggerate things when it comes to negatives about blacks. Maybe you need to stop.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's so obvious black communities in Michigan are the most dangerous. Maybe not where you live but the most dangerous places in MI are Flint, Saginaw and Detroit. Why? Black people.

Here is one thing you can't deny. Your communities ridiculously low test scores.

At least two-thirds of black and Hispanic students in Connecticut are behind in math or English

Students from low-income families had similar dismal results.

So blacks overall do about as well as low income whites. Congrats.

African Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. The gap appears before children enter kindergarten and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on almost every standardized test. This statistic does not imply, of course, that all blacks score below all whites. There is a lot of overlap between the two groups. Nonetheless, the test score gap is large enough to have significant social and economic consequences.

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

I am so curious how you are going to respond.

No sealy this is not the reason. I am black sealy. OK? This means I have had conversations with blacks that you have not. There are things blacks will not say to you because we already know that it's useless to try. I think that by being black I damn sure know what the problem in black communities are better than you. You have been consistently wrong and until you can understand the complete damage white racism has caused you will never get it right. You see sealy, you talk like the black community is controlled by ISIS, but there are 590,000 blacks living there. A lot of them have lived their entire lives there.

Safely.

Now I'm not talking about safety. Now I'm talking about why there are so few blacks in upper management. Or why they/you are so under represented in the work force. Or why you aren't getting accepted into colleges.

I'm not denying blacks test worse than whites for all the reasons you will give. Years of oppression put your parents into poverty and uneducated so of course they aren't going to be able to help you with your homework like a white 2 parent home who's parents both went to nice white schools. Your schools aren't as good. The tests are bias towards whites. Good students have to deal with a lot of bad students who don't care. Teachers in poor black communities aren't as good. Yada Yada.

Well, stop studying things that don't matter in this society. Remember Good Times? They showed that if the test had a lot of questions black people care about, they would do better than whites. Well I'm sorry but maybe you have to start studying what us whites are studying. Why aren't you?

I think there are things you will ADMIT to other blacks you won't admit to here. It's a shame. I like honest discussions.

I do understand the complete damage white racism has caused. When I give the black community advice I give it in hopes you will overcome it.

Just don't try to tell me black communities are safer and black kids score just as well on tests as white kids do when I know those things aren't true. You can make the argument that white racism created those dangerous ghetto's but don't tell me those ghettos don't exist.

And don't tell me fatherlessness isn't a big problem when all the studies on say it is

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples.

 

[sealybobo]

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

This says you should probably listen to us whites

Third, when black or mixed-race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their pre-adolescent test scores rise dramatically. These adoptees’ scores seem to fall in adolescence, but this could easily be because their social and cultural environment comes to resemble that of other black teenagers.

Traditional explanations for the black-white test score gap have not stood up well to the test of time. During the 1960s, most liberals blamed the gap on some combination of black poverty, racial segregation, and inadequate funding of black schools. Since then, the number of affluent black families has grown dramatically, but their children’s test scores still lag far behind those of white children from equally affluent families. School desegregation may have played some role in reducing the black-white test score gap in the South, but school desegregation also seems to have costs for blacks, and when we compare initially similar students in today’s schools, those who attend desegregated schools learn only slightly more than those in segregated schools.

Recent evidence suggests that disparities in school resources do affect achievement, but resource disparities between black and white children have shrunk steadily over time. The average black child now attends school in a district that spends as much per pupil as the average white child’s district. Black children’s schools also have about the same number of teachers per pupil as white schools. Predominantly white schools seem to attract more skilled teachers than black schools, but while black students who attend predominantly white schools probably benefit from having better teachers, this advantage seems to be offset by the social costs of being in an overwhelmingly white environment. In any event, schools cannot be the main reason for the black-white test score gap, because it appears before children enter school and persists even when black and white children attend the same schools. If schools play an important role in perpetuating the gap, either desegregated schools must be treating black and white children very differently or else black and white children must react very differently to the same treatment.



The three most common “conservative” explanations for the black-white gap-genes, the culture of poverty, and single motherhood-are also hard to reconcile with the available evidence. There is no direct genetic evidence for or against the theory that the black-white gap is innate, because we have not yet identified the genes that affect skills like reading, math, and abstract reasoning. Studies of mixed-race children and black children adopted by white parents suggest, however, that racial differences in test performance are largely if not entirely environmental in origin.



Cultural differences associated with chronic poverty may account for some of the black-white test score gap, but they cannot be the main explanation, since the gap persists among affluent children. And while children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples, this difference almost disappears once we take account of the fact that women who become single mothers come from less advantaged families, have lower test scores, and complete less schooling than women with husbands.

This article is great

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

No it does not.

Whites need to shut up and listen.

Your asses have had everything handed to you for 242 years. We have whatever rights we have now for 53. So let's see what the black community looks like when we are at 242 years of not being overtly discriminated against. Those test score every white person tries to use when they've lost the argument have been shown to be invalid indicators of anything.

We know what the problem is and it is not what you say it is.

I give up then. If your low test scores don't tell you anything, nothing will.

If even those results don't mean anything nothing means anything.

And thank you for telling us how long it's going to take blacks to get over past racism once it's overwith. Because lets face it for most blacks they aren't dealing with it on a day to day basis other than hearing it on the news. So you think it's going to take about another 242 years for blacks to catch up. Got it.

I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about why you don't get the jobs. You score lower on IQ tests. And did you read all the reasons/excuses that were given from both the left and right? Seems like you don't even agree with the left.

Unfortunately for you this is not a matter of blacks getting over racism. It is a matter of being able to build the same kinds of community networks whites have had 242 years to build. I probably scored higher than you did on those tests and those tests are not why we don't get the jobs. You have heard of BFOQ's haven't you?

Why is it that you whites who can't figure out how to stop yourselves from mass shootings think you are an expert on what blacks face? I do not agree with your assessment given that the tests you are talking about are not accurate measures of overall intelligence. All you have been trying to do is find something where you can tell me how we need to listen to whites.

I say we don't and that is not going to change. We know what the problem has been. And we know that the problem continues. Until we are able to equip many of our communities with the same type of development that's in the burbs there are going to be problems. Alluding to test scores does not solve the problem of the lack of economic development in many black communities.

First, instead of emphasizing the kinds of racial differences that economists and sociologists usually study (parents’ economic resources, parents’ position in the occupational hierarchy, parents’ exposure to formal education, and parents’ living arrangements), successful theories will take more account of the factors that psychologists have traditionally emphasized (the way family members interact with one another and with the outside world, for example). A good explanation of why white five-year-olds have bigger vocabularies than black five-year-olds is likely to focus on how much the parents talk to their children, how they deal with their children’s questions, and how they react when their children either learn or fail to learn something, not on how much money the parents have.

 

[sealybobo]

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

This says you should probably listen to us whites

Third, when black or mixed-race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their pre-adolescent test scores rise dramatically. These adoptees’ scores seem to fall in adolescence, but this could easily be because their social and cultural environment comes to resemble that of other black teenagers.

Traditional explanations for the black-white test score gap have not stood up well to the test of time. During the 1960s, most liberals blamed the gap on some combination of black poverty, racial segregation, and inadequate funding of black schools. Since then, the number of affluent black families has grown dramatically, but their children’s test scores still lag far behind those of white children from equally affluent families. School desegregation may have played some role in reducing the black-white test score gap in the South, but school desegregation also seems to have costs for blacks, and when we compare initially similar students in today’s schools, those who attend desegregated schools learn only slightly more than those in segregated schools.

Recent evidence suggests that disparities in school resources do affect achievement, but resource disparities between black and white children have shrunk steadily over time. The average black child now attends school in a district that spends as much per pupil as the average white child’s district. Black children’s schools also have about the same number of teachers per pupil as white schools. Predominantly white schools seem to attract more skilled teachers than black schools, but while black students who attend predominantly white schools probably benefit from having better teachers, this advantage seems to be offset by the social costs of being in an overwhelmingly white environment. In any event, schools cannot be the main reason for the black-white test score gap, because it appears before children enter school and persists even when black and white children attend the same schools. If schools play an important role in perpetuating the gap, either desegregated schools must be treating black and white children very differently or else black and white children must react very differently to the same treatment.



The three most common “conservative” explanations for the black-white gap-genes, the culture of poverty, and single motherhood-are also hard to reconcile with the available evidence. There is no direct genetic evidence for or against the theory that the black-white gap is innate, because we have not yet identified the genes that affect skills like reading, math, and abstract reasoning. Studies of mixed-race children and black children adopted by white parents suggest, however, that racial differences in test performance are largely if not entirely environmental in origin.



Cultural differences associated with chronic poverty may account for some of the black-white test score gap, but they cannot be the main explanation, since the gap persists among affluent children. And while children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples, this difference almost disappears once we take account of the fact that women who become single mothers come from less advantaged families, have lower test scores, and complete less schooling than women with husbands.

This article is great

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

No it does not.

Whites need to shut up and listen.

Your asses have had everything handed to you for 242 years. We have whatever rights we have now for 53. So let's see what the black community looks like when we are at 242 years of not being overtly discriminated against. Those test score every white person tries to use when they've lost the argument have been shown to be invalid indicators of anything.

We know what the problem is and it is not what you say it is.

I give up then. If your low test scores don't tell you anything, nothing will.

If even those results don't mean anything nothing means anything.

And thank you for telling us how long it's going to take blacks to get over past racism once it's overwith. Because lets face it for most blacks they aren't dealing with it on a day to day basis other than hearing it on the news. So you think it's going to take about another 242 years for blacks to catch up. Got it.

I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about why you don't get the jobs. You score lower on IQ tests. And did you read all the reasons/excuses that were given from both the left and right? Seems like you don't even agree with the left.

Unfortunately for you this is not a matter of blacks getting over racism. It is a matter of being able to build the same kinds of community networks whites have had 242 years to build. I probably scored higher than you did on those tests and those tests are not why we don't get the jobs. You have heard of BFOQ's haven't you?

Why is it that you whites who can't figure out how to stop yourselves from mass shootings think you are an expert on what blacks face? I do not agree with your assessment given that the tests you are talking about are not accurate measures of overall intelligence. All you have been trying to do is find something where you can tell me how we need to listen to whites.

I say we don't and that is not going to change. We know what the problem has been. And we know that the problem continues. Until we are able to equip many of our communities with the same type of development that's in the burbs there are going to be problems. Alluding to test scores does not solve the problem of the lack of economic development in many black communities.

Put it this way. Whoever's fault it is, the black community is doing something wrong and something needs to change. Why is there such a big gap between white kids and black kids? We don't know yet for sure.

Successful theories will therefore have to pay more attention to psychological and cultural influences, which are much harder to measure than income, education, and living arrangements. Collecting accurate data on black and white parents’ habits, values, behavior, and ideas is not easy, and it would take time. It might well require an investment of time and effort comparable to the effort that went into developing cognitive tests during the first half of the 20th century. But without such work, we are in constant danger of seeing black-white differences as an inevitable byproduct of people’s genes or of “cultural” factors that nobody can change.

 

[sealybobo]

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

This says you should probably listen to us whites

Third, when black or mixed-race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their pre-adolescent test scores rise dramatically. These adoptees’ scores seem to fall in adolescence, but this could easily be because their social and cultural environment comes to resemble that of other black teenagers.

Traditional explanations for the black-white test score gap have not stood up well to the test of time. During the 1960s, most liberals blamed the gap on some combination of black poverty, racial segregation, and inadequate funding of black schools. Since then, the number of affluent black families has grown dramatically, but their children’s test scores still lag far behind those of white children from equally affluent families. School desegregation may have played some role in reducing the black-white test score gap in the South, but school desegregation also seems to have costs for blacks, and when we compare initially similar students in today’s schools, those who attend desegregated schools learn only slightly more than those in segregated schools.

Recent evidence suggests that disparities in school resources do affect achievement, but resource disparities between black and white children have shrunk steadily over time. The average black child now attends school in a district that spends as much per pupil as the average white child’s district. Black children’s schools also have about the same number of teachers per pupil as white schools. Predominantly white schools seem to attract more skilled teachers than black schools, but while black students who attend predominantly white schools probably benefit from having better teachers, this advantage seems to be offset by the social costs of being in an overwhelmingly white environment. In any event, schools cannot be the main reason for the black-white test score gap, because it appears before children enter school and persists even when black and white children attend the same schools. If schools play an important role in perpetuating the gap, either desegregated schools must be treating black and white children very differently or else black and white children must react very differently to the same treatment.



The three most common “conservative” explanations for the black-white gap-genes, the culture of poverty, and single motherhood-are also hard to reconcile with the available evidence. There is no direct genetic evidence for or against the theory that the black-white gap is innate, because we have not yet identified the genes that affect skills like reading, math, and abstract reasoning. Studies of mixed-race children and black children adopted by white parents suggest, however, that racial differences in test performance are largely if not entirely environmental in origin.



Cultural differences associated with chronic poverty may account for some of the black-white test score gap, but they cannot be the main explanation, since the gap persists among affluent children. And while children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples, this difference almost disappears once we take account of the fact that women who become single mothers come from less advantaged families, have lower test scores, and complete less schooling than women with husbands.

This article is great

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

No it does not.

Whites need to shut up and listen.

Your asses have had everything handed to you for 242 years. We have whatever rights we have now for 53. So let's see what the black community looks like when we are at 242 years of not being overtly discriminated against. Those test score every white person tries to use when they've lost the argument have been shown to be invalid indicators of anything.

We know what the problem is and it is not what you say it is.

I give up then. If your low test scores don't tell you anything, nothing will.

If even those results don't mean anything nothing means anything.

And thank you for telling us how long it's going to take blacks to get over past racism once it's overwith. Because lets face it for most blacks they aren't dealing with it on a day to day basis other than hearing it on the news. So you think it's going to take about another 242 years for blacks to catch up. Got it.

I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about why you don't get the jobs. You score lower on IQ tests. And did you read all the reasons/excuses that were given from both the left and right? Seems like you don't even agree with the left.

Unfortunately for you this is not a matter of blacks getting over racism. It is a matter of being able to build the same kinds of community networks whites have had 242 years to build. I probably scored higher than you did on those tests and those tests are not why we don't get the jobs. You have heard of BFOQ's haven't you?

Why is it that you whites who can't figure out how to stop yourselves from mass shootings think you are an expert on what blacks face? I do not agree with your assessment given that the tests you are talking about are not accurate measures of overall intelligence. All you have been trying to do is find something where you can tell me how we need to listen to whites.

I say we don't and that is not going to change. We know what the problem has been. And we know that the problem continues. Until we are able to equip many of our communities with the same type of development that's in the burbs there are going to be problems. Alluding to test scores does not solve the problem of the lack of economic development in many black communities.

Public support for almost any policy depends partly on whether the beneficiaries are perceived as deserving or undeserving. One obvious advantage of programs directed at children is that hardly anyone blames first graders’ ignorance on their lack of motivation. First graders of every race seem eager to please. Both black and white adults often think that older black children lack academic motivation, but most adults still blame this on the children s parents or schools, not on the children themselves. That was why Lyndon Johnson emphasized helping children in his original war on poverty.

 

[IM2]

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

I really can't argue with anything you say. So then you all need to start becoming more independent and using that money you spend to influence more power.

And get those poor bastards to vote. If Republicans see 80% of the black community voted, they'd start catering to it that I can promise you.

But one thing. You think that us whites need to have bars on our windows? That's funny shit. But I guess I live in a very safe white community. You must be talking about poor white communities. Sure rapes happen in rich white neighborhoods too occasionally or burglaries but not so much that the entire community bars up their windows and doors.

I found people discussing these bars on windows in Detroit:
OK, Ive lived a few places, but have never seen a community so upset w crime, but so against security bars on windows as detroit. Yes they can be a bit of an eyesore, but Im wondering my they arent more widely used in detroit w as much crime as is talked about. Here in L.A. you even see them in decent neighborhoods. Can anyone enlighten me why detroit isnt more open to them? My home has them and I feel alot better at home or away knowing Ive at least got something to slow them down if they choose to break in.
detroit hates security bars?

I'm surprised to hear you say you rarely saw them. I know one person who claims to have made a fortune selling them in Detroit throughout the 80s and 90s. (Then again, I didn't have any on anyplace I lived back then!)

Ive grown fond of my bars, and will apply them if and when i return to the BIG D
Wow. I can't imagine becoming "fond" of security bars, and if I felt I needed them when I returned, I wouldn't be returning.
I'm not sure what's more strange - the fact that you've been gone 16 years yet make a general statement about a place where you don't live, or the fact that you say this despite there being tens of thousands of homes in the city with bars on all their windows and doors.

In some neighborhoods, nearly every home on the street has iron bars.

Because Detroit is so safe? LOL

Aesthetics aren't even the point. When a neighborhood is so dangerous that you need to have security bars on the windows, it's no longer good enough to live in, and it's time to get the heck out of there. Period.

I've always made a rule to NEVER live in an area of the city so bad that there are bars on the upper windows. On the basement windows or a security door I can get to. We have security doors and door gates and glass blocks for the basement windows. BUT I am not living anywhere with bars at the first floor main window. Absolutely not.

88 percent of the blacks who voted in the last election voted for Clinton. Blacks ran for offices in record numbers in 2018. We vote. We need more representation. And like I said, you live in gated communities and talk about bars on windows. Even in those gated communities, whites get robbed, raped and beaten more. I lived in a black community in a city and we had no bars on windows. You exaggerate things when it comes to negatives about blacks. Maybe you need to stop.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's so obvious black communities in Michigan are the most dangerous. Maybe not where you live but the most dangerous places in MI are Flint, Saginaw and Detroit. Why? Black people.

Here is one thing you can't deny. Your communities ridiculously low test scores.

At least two-thirds of black and Hispanic students in Connecticut are behind in math or English

Students from low-income families had similar dismal results.

So blacks overall do about as well as low income whites. Congrats.

African Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. The gap appears before children enter kindergarten and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on almost every standardized test. This statistic does not imply, of course, that all blacks score below all whites. There is a lot of overlap between the two groups. Nonetheless, the test score gap is large enough to have significant social and economic consequences.

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

I am so curious how you are going to respond.

No sealy this is not the reason. I am black sealy. OK? This means I have had conversations with blacks that you have not. There are things blacks will not say to you because we already know that it's useless to try. I think that by being black I damn sure know what the problem in black communities are better than you. You have been consistently wrong and until you can understand the complete damage white racism has caused you will never get it right. You see sealy, you talk like the black community is controlled by ISIS, but there are 590,000 blacks living there. A lot of them have lived their entire lives there.

Safely.

Now I'm not talking about safety. Now I'm talking about why there are so few blacks in upper management. Or why they/you are so under represented in the work force. Or why you aren't getting accepted into colleges.

I'm not denying blacks test worse than whites for all the reasons you will give. Years of oppression put your parents into poverty and uneducated so of course they aren't going to be able to help you with your homework like a white 2 parent home who's parents both went to nice white schools. Your schools aren't as good. The tests are bias towards whites. Good students have to deal with a lot of bad students who don't care. Teachers in poor black communities aren't as good. Yada Yada.

Well, stop studying things that don't matter in this society. Remember Good Times? They showed that if the test had a lot of questions black people care about, they would do better than whites. Well I'm sorry but maybe you have to start studying what us whites are studying. Why aren't you?

I think there are things you will ADMIT to other blacks you won't admit to here. It's a shame. I like honest discussions.

I do understand the complete damage white racism has caused. When I give the black community advice I give it in hopes you will overcome it.

Just don't try to tell me black communities are safer and black kids score just as well on tests as white kids do when I know those things aren't true. You can make the argument that white racism created those dangerous ghetto's but don't tell me those ghettos don't exist.

And don't tell me fatherlessness isn't a big problem when all the studies on say it is

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples.

I'm going to tell you that there is more crime in the white community because that's what the Uniform Crime Reports show. I don't care about standardized test scores because again, they are proven not to be accurate indicators of intelligence, plus more blacks are entering college than ever before. You see, we live in America and Michigan is just one state. And there is no discussion about race that can be had by ignoring the long continuing history of white racism. And until you are able to understand the complete damage it has caused, your argument will lack credibility.

Why Standardized Tests Don't Measure Educational Quality - Educational Leadership
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...th-standardized-tests/?utm_term=.9249a6fc985f
Standardized tests not always best indicator of success | Penn State University
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-tests-actually-test/?utm_term=.ca47078a959e

 

[IM2]

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

This says you should probably listen to us whites

Third, when black or mixed-race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their pre-adolescent test scores rise dramatically. These adoptees’ scores seem to fall in adolescence, but this could easily be because their social and cultural environment comes to resemble that of other black teenagers.

Traditional explanations for the black-white test score gap have not stood up well to the test of time. During the 1960s, most liberals blamed the gap on some combination of black poverty, racial segregation, and inadequate funding of black schools. Since then, the number of affluent black families has grown dramatically, but their children’s test scores still lag far behind those of white children from equally affluent families. School desegregation may have played some role in reducing the black-white test score gap in the South, but school desegregation also seems to have costs for blacks, and when we compare initially similar students in today’s schools, those who attend desegregated schools learn only slightly more than those in segregated schools.

Recent evidence suggests that disparities in school resources do affect achievement, but resource disparities between black and white children have shrunk steadily over time. The average black child now attends school in a district that spends as much per pupil as the average white child’s district. Black children’s schools also have about the same number of teachers per pupil as white schools. Predominantly white schools seem to attract more skilled teachers than black schools, but while black students who attend predominantly white schools probably benefit from having better teachers, this advantage seems to be offset by the social costs of being in an overwhelmingly white environment. In any event, schools cannot be the main reason for the black-white test score gap, because it appears before children enter school and persists even when black and white children attend the same schools. If schools play an important role in perpetuating the gap, either desegregated schools must be treating black and white children very differently or else black and white children must react very differently to the same treatment.



The three most common “conservative” explanations for the black-white gap-genes, the culture of poverty, and single motherhood-are also hard to reconcile with the available evidence. There is no direct genetic evidence for or against the theory that the black-white gap is innate, because we have not yet identified the genes that affect skills like reading, math, and abstract reasoning. Studies of mixed-race children and black children adopted by white parents suggest, however, that racial differences in test performance are largely if not entirely environmental in origin.



Cultural differences associated with chronic poverty may account for some of the black-white test score gap, but they cannot be the main explanation, since the gap persists among affluent children. And while children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples, this difference almost disappears once we take account of the fact that women who become single mothers come from less advantaged families, have lower test scores, and complete less schooling than women with husbands.

This article is great

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

No it does not.

Whites need to shut up and listen.

Your asses have had everything handed to you for 242 years. We have whatever rights we have now for 53. So let's see what the black community looks like when we are at 242 years of not being overtly discriminated against. Those test score every white person tries to use when they've lost the argument have been shown to be invalid indicators of anything.

We know what the problem is and it is not what you say it is.

I give up then. If your low test scores don't tell you anything, nothing will.

If even those results don't mean anything nothing means anything.

And thank you for telling us how long it's going to take blacks to get over past racism once it's overwith. Because lets face it for most blacks they aren't dealing with it on a day to day basis other than hearing it on the news. So you think it's going to take about another 242 years for blacks to catch up. Got it.

I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about why you don't get the jobs. You score lower on IQ tests. And did you read all the reasons/excuses that were given from both the left and right? Seems like you don't even agree with the left.

Unfortunately for you this is not a matter of blacks getting over racism. It is a matter of being able to build the same kinds of community networks whites have had 242 years to build. I probably scored higher than you did on those tests and those tests are not why we don't get the jobs. You have heard of BFOQ's haven't you?

Why is it that you whites who can't figure out how to stop yourselves from mass shootings think you are an expert on what blacks face? I do not agree with your assessment given that the tests you are talking about are not accurate measures of overall intelligence. All you have been trying to do is find something where you can tell me how we need to listen to whites.

I say we don't and that is not going to change. We know what the problem has been. And we know that the problem continues. Until we are able to equip many of our communities with the same type of development that's in the burbs there are going to be problems. Alluding to test scores does not solve the problem of the lack of economic development in many black communities.

Put it this way. Whoever's fault it is, the black community is doing something wrong and something needs to change. Why is there such a big gap between white kids and black kids? We don't know yet for sure.

Successful theories will therefore have to pay more attention to psychological and cultural influences, which are much harder to measure than income, education, and living arrangements. Collecting accurate data on black and white parents’ habits, values, behavior, and ideas is not easy, and it would take time. It might well require an investment of time and effort comparable to the effort that went into developing cognitive tests during the first half of the 20th century. But without such work, we are in constant danger of seeing black-white differences as an inevitable byproduct of people’s genes or of “cultural” factors that nobody can change.

Well if you were black and looked back on the past 60 years, you would say blacks have done a lot of right things and that it could even be better if whites would stop believing they know better what we need to do than we do. The cultural pathology arguments is bullshit and it's part of modern racism. There is no big gap between white and black kids. Standardized tests do not make a case for that opinion unless it's just something you want to believe.

 

[sealybobo]

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

This says you should probably listen to us whites

Third, when black or mixed-race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their pre-adolescent test scores rise dramatically. These adoptees’ scores seem to fall in adolescence, but this could easily be because their social and cultural environment comes to resemble that of other black teenagers.

Traditional explanations for the black-white test score gap have not stood up well to the test of time. During the 1960s, most liberals blamed the gap on some combination of black poverty, racial segregation, and inadequate funding of black schools. Since then, the number of affluent black families has grown dramatically, but their children’s test scores still lag far behind those of white children from equally affluent families. School desegregation may have played some role in reducing the black-white test score gap in the South, but school desegregation also seems to have costs for blacks, and when we compare initially similar students in today’s schools, those who attend desegregated schools learn only slightly more than those in segregated schools.

Recent evidence suggests that disparities in school resources do affect achievement, but resource disparities between black and white children have shrunk steadily over time. The average black child now attends school in a district that spends as much per pupil as the average white child’s district. Black children’s schools also have about the same number of teachers per pupil as white schools. Predominantly white schools seem to attract more skilled teachers than black schools, but while black students who attend predominantly white schools probably benefit from having better teachers, this advantage seems to be offset by the social costs of being in an overwhelmingly white environment. In any event, schools cannot be the main reason for the black-white test score gap, because it appears before children enter school and persists even when black and white children attend the same schools. If schools play an important role in perpetuating the gap, either desegregated schools must be treating black and white children very differently or else black and white children must react very differently to the same treatment.



The three most common “conservative” explanations for the black-white gap-genes, the culture of poverty, and single motherhood-are also hard to reconcile with the available evidence. There is no direct genetic evidence for or against the theory that the black-white gap is innate, because we have not yet identified the genes that affect skills like reading, math, and abstract reasoning. Studies of mixed-race children and black children adopted by white parents suggest, however, that racial differences in test performance are largely if not entirely environmental in origin.



Cultural differences associated with chronic poverty may account for some of the black-white test score gap, but they cannot be the main explanation, since the gap persists among affluent children. And while children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples, this difference almost disappears once we take account of the fact that women who become single mothers come from less advantaged families, have lower test scores, and complete less schooling than women with husbands.

This article is great

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

No it does not.

Whites need to shut up and listen.

Your asses have had everything handed to you for 242 years. We have whatever rights we have now for 53. So let's see what the black community looks like when we are at 242 years of not being overtly discriminated against. Those test score every white person tries to use when they've lost the argument have been shown to be invalid indicators of anything.

We know what the problem is and it is not what you say it is.

I give up then. If your low test scores don't tell you anything, nothing will.

If even those results don't mean anything nothing means anything.

And thank you for telling us how long it's going to take blacks to get over past racism once it's overwith. Because lets face it for most blacks they aren't dealing with it on a day to day basis other than hearing it on the news. So you think it's going to take about another 242 years for blacks to catch up. Got it.

I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about why you don't get the jobs. You score lower on IQ tests. And did you read all the reasons/excuses that were given from both the left and right? Seems like you don't even agree with the left.

Unfortunately for you this is not a matter of blacks getting over racism. It is a matter of being able to build the same kinds of community networks whites have had 242 years to build. I probably scored higher than you did on those tests and those tests are not why we don't get the jobs. You have heard of BFOQ's haven't you?

Why is it that you whites who can't figure out how to stop yourselves from mass shootings think you are an expert on what blacks face? I do not agree with your assessment given that the tests you are talking about are not accurate measures of overall intelligence. All you have been trying to do is find something where you can tell me how we need to listen to whites.

I say we don't and that is not going to change. We know what the problem has been. And we know that the problem continues. Until we are able to equip many of our communities with the same type of development that's in the burbs there are going to be problems. Alluding to test scores does not solve the problem of the lack of economic development in many black communities.

Fair enough. I don’t completely agree but mostly I do. Especially about you testing better than me. I’m not very book smart. In fact my only talent is sales. Luckily you can make a lot in sales.

BFOQ?

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

So you challenge the tests. How convenient. Why don’t you instead prove us wrong by educating your kids so they do as well as our kids do. You won’t listen to whites? Then stay second class citizens.

Until you are able to equip your communities? I’ve read blacks spend more money than any other group. Yes, you need to start being self sufficient. I’ve posted the top 100 black companies. I would love to see more and better companies on that list.

Stephon curry has a shoe company. I wonder how many blacks work for that company.

I hope you know my only goal is to solve this problem. It’s not to prove that it’s mostly blacks fault because I agree it’s mostly not blacks fault. But it is also not 100% whites fault. But you won’t assign any blame to blacks. Can’t argue with someone like you. You sound like correll only the black version

 

[impuretrash]

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

The 3 worst mass shooting to date were all perpetrated by muslim extremists. So to hell with that stupid trope that white men are mass shooters. There's been a spate of such incidents in the US over a period of two decades, perpetrated by sick individuals in a nation of 300 million, many of whom weren't even white.

 

[sealybobo]

I really can't argue with anything you say. So then you all need to start becoming more independent and using that money you spend to influence more power.

And get those poor bastards to vote. If Republicans see 80% of the black community voted, they'd start catering to it that I can promise you.

But one thing. You think that us whites need to have bars on our windows? That's funny shit. But I guess I live in a very safe white community. You must be talking about poor white communities. Sure rapes happen in rich white neighborhoods too occasionally or burglaries but not so much that the entire community bars up their windows and doors.

I found people discussing these bars on windows in Detroit:
OK, Ive lived a few places, but have never seen a community so upset w crime, but so against security bars on windows as detroit. Yes they can be a bit of an eyesore, but Im wondering my they arent more widely used in detroit w as much crime as is talked about. Here in L.A. you even see them in decent neighborhoods. Can anyone enlighten me why detroit isnt more open to them? My home has them and I feel alot better at home or away knowing Ive at least got something to slow them down if they choose to break in.
detroit hates security bars?

I'm surprised to hear you say you rarely saw them. I know one person who claims to have made a fortune selling them in Detroit throughout the 80s and 90s. (Then again, I didn't have any on anyplace I lived back then!)

Ive grown fond of my bars, and will apply them if and when i return to the BIG D
Wow. I can't imagine becoming "fond" of security bars, and if I felt I needed them when I returned, I wouldn't be returning.
I'm not sure what's more strange - the fact that you've been gone 16 years yet make a general statement about a place where you don't live, or the fact that you say this despite there being tens of thousands of homes in the city with bars on all their windows and doors.

In some neighborhoods, nearly every home on the street has iron bars.

Because Detroit is so safe? LOL

Aesthetics aren't even the point. When a neighborhood is so dangerous that you need to have security bars on the windows, it's no longer good enough to live in, and it's time to get the heck out of there. Period.

I've always made a rule to NEVER live in an area of the city so bad that there are bars on the upper windows. On the basement windows or a security door I can get to. We have security doors and door gates and glass blocks for the basement windows. BUT I am not living anywhere with bars at the first floor main window. Absolutely not.

88 percent of the blacks who voted in the last election voted for Clinton. Blacks ran for offices in record numbers in 2018. We vote. We need more representation. And like I said, you live in gated communities and talk about bars on windows. Even in those gated communities, whites get robbed, raped and beaten more. I lived in a black community in a city and we had no bars on windows. You exaggerate things when it comes to negatives about blacks. Maybe you need to stop.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. It's so obvious black communities in Michigan are the most dangerous. Maybe not where you live but the most dangerous places in MI are Flint, Saginaw and Detroit. Why? Black people.

Here is one thing you can't deny. Your communities ridiculously low test scores.

At least two-thirds of black and Hispanic students in Connecticut are behind in math or English

Students from low-income families had similar dismal results.

So blacks overall do about as well as low income whites. Congrats.

African Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. The gap appears before children enter kindergarten and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on almost every standardized test. This statistic does not imply, of course, that all blacks score below all whites. There is a lot of overlap between the two groups. Nonetheless, the test score gap is large enough to have significant social and economic consequences.

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

I am so curious how you are going to respond.

No sealy this is not the reason. I am black sealy. OK? This means I have had conversations with blacks that you have not. There are things blacks will not say to you because we already know that it's useless to try. I think that by being black I damn sure know what the problem in black communities are better than you. You have been consistently wrong and until you can understand the complete damage white racism has caused you will never get it right. You see sealy, you talk like the black community is controlled by ISIS, but there are 590,000 blacks living there. A lot of them have lived their entire lives there.

Safely.

Now I'm not talking about safety. Now I'm talking about why there are so few blacks in upper management. Or why they/you are so under represented in the work force. Or why you aren't getting accepted into colleges.

I'm not denying blacks test worse than whites for all the reasons you will give. Years of oppression put your parents into poverty and uneducated so of course they aren't going to be able to help you with your homework like a white 2 parent home who's parents both went to nice white schools. Your schools aren't as good. The tests are bias towards whites. Good students have to deal with a lot of bad students who don't care. Teachers in poor black communities aren't as good. Yada Yada.

Well, stop studying things that don't matter in this society. Remember Good Times? They showed that if the test had a lot of questions black people care about, they would do better than whites. Well I'm sorry but maybe you have to start studying what us whites are studying. Why aren't you?

I think there are things you will ADMIT to other blacks you won't admit to here. It's a shame. I like honest discussions.

I do understand the complete damage white racism has caused. When I give the black community advice I give it in hopes you will overcome it.

Just don't try to tell me black communities are safer and black kids score just as well on tests as white kids do when I know those things aren't true. You can make the argument that white racism created those dangerous ghetto's but don't tell me those ghettos don't exist.

And don't tell me fatherlessness isn't a big problem when all the studies on say it is

The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

children raised by single mothers score lower on most standardized tests than children raised by married couples.

I'm going to tell you that there is more crime in the white community because that's what the Uniform Crime Reports show. I don't care about standardized test scores because again, they are proven not to be accurate indicators of intelligence, plus more blacks are entering college than ever before. You see, we live in America and Michigan is just one state. And there is no discussion about race that can be had by ignoring the long continuing history of white racism. And until you are able to understand the complete damage it has caused, your argument will lack credibility.

Why Standardized Tests Don't Measure Educational Quality - Educational Leadership
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...th-standardized-tests/?utm_term=.9249a6fc985f
Standardized tests not always best indicator of success | Penn State University
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-tests-actually-test/?utm_term=.ca47078a959e

I don’t ignore. That’s why I encourage diversity programs. I promote them because I know everything you say is true.

Remember I’m trying to get you to admit blacks are 10% at fault for the position they are in. If you won’t accept 10% blame for the condition of the poor black community then you’re just as stubborn as the white idiots we argue with here everyday.

I hope your real opinion is that your people are working on the internal problems. You maybe don’t want to admit any blame because that just gives the white racists ammo.

Again, I hope you believe my only hope is to figure this shit out. I know we have a lot of work to do with the racist whites and they are the bulk of the problem. I just think you have victim mentality and you’re in denial.

 

[sealybobo]

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

The 3 worst mass shooting to date were all perpetrated by muslim extremists. So to hell with that stupid trope that white men are mass shooters. There's been a spate of such incidents in the US over a period of two decades, perpetrated by sick individuals in a nation of 300 million, many of whom weren't even white.

Bullshit. We have a white man problem in America. If you gun nuts want to say it’s not the gun it’s the shooter then tell us why so many white shooters?

In the Middle East they hav a suicide bomber problem. They need to figure out why so many Arabic men are willing to do that.

Notice women don’t go on rampages? Maybe if I leave out the color you’ll be able to have a rational discussion about this. Why are men so nuts?

Ps. Very few blacks commit crimes. The vast majority of blacks are just like us. So if we don’t have a white male rampage problem because the numbers aren’t high enough then we could say the same thing about blacks.

In other words 94% of blacks are good and 96% of whites are good. And many would say being treated like second class citizens might account for the extra 2%

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action. Imagine if we were persecuted like blacks have been for centuries. Would we be doing as good as blacks are after everything they’ve endured? Something tells me we wouldn’t. Whites are snowflakes

 

[impuretrash]

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

The 3 worst mass shooting to date were all perpetrated by muslim extremists. So to hell with that stupid trope that white men are mass shooters. There's been a spate of such incidents in the US over a period of two decades, perpetrated by sick individuals in a nation of 300 million, many of whom weren't even white.

Bullshit. We have a white man problem in America. If you gun nuts want to say it’s not the gun it’s the shooter then tell us why so many white shooters?

In the Middle East they hav a suicide bomber problem. They need to figure out why so many Arabic men are willing to do that.

Notice women don’t go on rampages? Maybe if I leave out the color you’ll be able to have a rational discussion about this. Why are men so nuts?

Ps. Very few blacks commit crimes. The vast majority of blacks are just like us. So if we don’t have a white male rampage problem because the numbers aren’t high enough then we could say the same thing about blacks.

In other words 94% of blacks are good and 96% of whites are good. And many would say being treated like second class citizens might account for the extra 2%

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action. Imagine if we were persecuted like blacks have been for centuries. Would we be doing as good as blacks are after everything they’ve endured? Something tells me we wouldn’t. Whites are snowflakes

why so many white shooters?

Have there really been so many? Don't confuse the death toll with the number of perpetrators.

There's been 16 shooting incidents with over ten fatalities since the Columbine massacre in 1999. Ten were committed by white dudes although Nicolas Cruz was not so much a typical white male as he was a multiracial jewish/cuban...creature.

So, 9.04 white male mass shooters in 20 years. Is this an epidemic...? Racist Democrats and their media lapdogs would like you to think so.

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action

That sounds like something IM2 would say.

Ridiculous. I don't "cry" over affirmative action. I've never even brought it up. Stop racially stereotyping me.

 

[sealybobo]

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

The 3 worst mass shooting to date were all perpetrated by muslim extremists. So to hell with that stupid trope that white men are mass shooters. There's been a spate of such incidents in the US over a period of two decades, perpetrated by sick individuals in a nation of 300 million, many of whom weren't even white.

Bullshit. We have a white man problem in America. If you gun nuts want to say it’s not the gun it’s the shooter then tell us why so many white shooters?

In the Middle East they hav a suicide bomber problem. They need to figure out why so many Arabic men are willing to do that.

Notice women don’t go on rampages? Maybe if I leave out the color you’ll be able to have a rational discussion about this. Why are men so nuts?

Ps. Very few blacks commit crimes. The vast majority of blacks are just like us. So if we don’t have a white male rampage problem because the numbers aren’t high enough then we could say the same thing about blacks.

In other words 94% of blacks are good and 96% of whites are good. And many would say being treated like second class citizens might account for the extra 2%

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action. Imagine if we were persecuted like blacks have been for centuries. Would we be doing as good as blacks are after everything they’ve endured? Something tells me we wouldn’t. Whites are snowflakes

why so many white shooters?

Have there really been so many? Don't confuse the death toll with the number of perpetrators.

There's been 16 shooting incidents with over ten fatalities since the Columbine massacre in 1999. Ten were committed by white dudes although Nicolas Cruz was not so much a typical white male as he was a multiracial jewish/cuban...creature.

So, 9.04 white male mass shooters in 20 years. Is this an epidemic...? Racist Democrats and their media lapdogs would like you to think so.

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action

That sounds like something IM2 would say.

Ridiculous. I don't "cry" over affirmative action. I've never even brought it up. Stop racially stereotyping me.

There have on
Y been 16 incidences since columbine? I find that hard to believe. Maybe you mean 16 every year?

 

[impuretrash]

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

The 3 worst mass shooting to date were all perpetrated by muslim extremists. So to hell with that stupid trope that white men are mass shooters. There's been a spate of such incidents in the US over a period of two decades, perpetrated by sick individuals in a nation of 300 million, many of whom weren't even white.

Bullshit. We have a white man problem in America. If you gun nuts want to say it’s not the gun it’s the shooter then tell us why so many white shooters?

In the Middle East they hav a suicide bomber problem. They need to figure out why so many Arabic men are willing to do that.

Notice women don’t go on rampages? Maybe if I leave out the color you’ll be able to have a rational discussion about this. Why are men so nuts?

Ps. Very few blacks commit crimes. The vast majority of blacks are just like us. So if we don’t have a white male rampage problem because the numbers aren’t high enough then we could say the same thing about blacks.

In other words 94% of blacks are good and 96% of whites are good. And many would say being treated like second class citizens might account for the extra 2%

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action. Imagine if we were persecuted like blacks have been for centuries. Would we be doing as good as blacks are after everything they’ve endured? Something tells me we wouldn’t. Whites are snowflakes

why so many white shooters?

Have there really been so many? Don't confuse the death toll with the number of perpetrators.

There's been 16 shooting incidents with over ten fatalities since the Columbine massacre in 1999. Ten were committed by white dudes although Nicolas Cruz was not so much a typical white male as he was a multiracial jewish/cuban...creature.

So, 9.04 white male mass shooters in 20 years. Is this an epidemic...? Racist Democrats and their media lapdogs would like you to think so.

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action

That sounds like something IM2 would say.

Ridiculous. I don't "cry" over affirmative action. I've never even brought it up. Stop racially stereotyping me.

There have on
Y been 16 incidences since columbine? I find that hard to believe. Maybe you mean 16 every year?

Shootings with fatalities of ten or more, yes. 16 since 1999

 

[sealybobo]

I’m constantly trying to figure out why white men are so fucked up they do mass shootings. But that’s different than living in a high crime and poverty black community with bars on the doors and windows and you know it. I’m not saying whites aren’t fucked up too. Remember I’m first generation Greek. I am critical of white Americans too. I think they are fucked up and the biggest thing I pick on them for is the 51% divorce rate they have. It’s whats wrong with them too.

The 3 worst mass shooting to date were all perpetrated by muslim extremists. So to hell with that stupid trope that white men are mass shooters. There's been a spate of such incidents in the US over a period of two decades, perpetrated by sick individuals in a nation of 300 million, many of whom weren't even white.

Bullshit. We have a white man problem in America. If you gun nuts want to say it’s not the gun it’s the shooter then tell us why so many white shooters?

In the Middle East they hav a suicide bomber problem. They need to figure out why so many Arabic men are willing to do that.

Notice women don’t go on rampages? Maybe if I leave out the color you’ll be able to have a rational discussion about this. Why are men so nuts?

Ps. Very few blacks commit crimes. The vast majority of blacks are just like us. So if we don’t have a white male rampage problem because the numbers aren’t high enough then we could say the same thing about blacks.

In other words 94% of blacks are good and 96% of whites are good. And many would say being treated like second class citizens might account for the extra 2%

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action. Imagine if we were persecuted like blacks have been for centuries. Would we be doing as good as blacks are after everything they’ve endured? Something tells me we wouldn’t. Whites are snowflakes

why so many white shooters?

Have there really been so many? Don't confuse the death toll with the number of perpetrators.

There's been 16 shooting incidents with over ten fatalities since the Columbine massacre in 1999. Ten were committed by white dudes although Nicolas Cruz was not so much a typical white male as he was a multiracial jewish/cuban...creature.

So, 9.04 white male mass shooters in 20 years. Is this an epidemic...? Racist Democrats and their media lapdogs would like you to think so.

Look at how you whites cry now over a little affirmative action

That sounds like something IM2 would say.

Ridiculous. I don't "cry" over affirmative action. I've never even brought it up. Stop racially stereotyping me.

There have on
Y been 16 incidences since columbine? I find that hard to believe. Maybe you mean 16 every year?

Shootings with fatalities of ten or more, yes. 16 since 1999

Anyways, my point was to defend white murder or to compare it to black murders.

One crazy white walks into a church or school and kills a bunch of people. Still that community is a relatively safe place to live. That one incident doesn’t mean the community is a dangerous place. Or we kill our wives lovers or we kill our wife for trying to leave us or we kill our parents for their money.

When a neighbor does one of those things I don’t feel unsafe. But when I’m a black living in Detroit and someone broke in and murdered my neighbor, or someone rapes my daughter in an abandoned building when she’s walking to school, I would feel unsafe living in that neighborhood. If gangs existed in my neighborhood I would feel unsafe. I would have bars on my doors just like detroiters have now. Metro detroiters don’t put bars on their doors and windows.

Remember carjackings? What ever happened to them? They don’t happen very often anymore. Well where were they happening? They were happening in cities like Detroit. No one in my community ever got car jacked.

 

[Correll]

Yes. And?

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

1. You assume that the issue is that the white managers just don't like blacks. Saying "the numbers show it" is not a supporting argument.

2. But, you do inadvertently raise the issue of blacks being told their whole lives that the white hiring managers won't like them. I can see that being a factor with at least some of the black applicants

3. That bit where you were run out of the company for the sake of the black employee? That was anti-white racism, and if it happened to you, the odds that it JUST happened to you, is pretty low.

4. Your assumption that the white man hiring, is biased against minority candidates is just an assumption. Especially odd given that you have given an example of a white ceo demanding a minority VP, and cited the large number of ceos that strongly support diversity hiring and the example of google that I provided.


5. People who don't vote, often have good reasons. I have no desire for people that don't think they should vote, to vote. I trust their judgement on themselves.

6. Blacks and Poor whites are not "second class citizens". They are underserved voter groups. That they have been failed is on our political class, not on them. NOte the way that poor whites were happy to mobilize when some one came along and spoke to their interests. Liberals should consider how to speak out to black interests if they want higher voting from blacks.


7. Your need to constantly keep the flame alive of race baiting, is not something to endear you to poor whites, who pay the price for that shit.

You are right. We should let Republicans run everything like they do in Red states

Are 97 of the nation's 100 poorest counties in red states?

Please go back and actually answer the points I made.

Just look at which side started this thread. And what is the subject? Who is controlling the message and playing the race card here? Be honest

We were having quite a discussion, heavily based on your personal experiences and observations, and now you want to shit can all of that, and start the whole discussion over?


Could you be honest as to why you want to do that?


I thought you made some great points. And I made some even better ones.


And I really appreciate your honesty in sharing your examples. Most liberals would lie, either to themselves or me.


imo, I think we can to a point, where we reached the underlying differences of perception on the facts that cause at least some of our political disagreements.

 

[deanrd]

There, I said it. Why is it that Democrat 'colored/black' skinned people are always considered victims by the old-white Democrats? Could it be that SOME 'colored/black' skinned people traded slavery for victimhood? True Conservatives are color-blind and everyone is considered equally by their contribution. Competence is rewarded in $$$$ it doesn't matter the color of the skin. My advice to 'colored/black' people is to STAY AWAY from the Democrat party. Remember, THEY were the original slave-holders. They STILL consider 'colored/black' people to be inferior.

It’s easy to be color blind when your party is 90% white.

 

[Correll]

I have a lot in common with Howard stern. He grew up in an all black neighborhood. His parents didn’t mind living in an all black neighborhood. The place was paid off. No big deal to them all the whites moved a few blocks over.

But Howard got his ass kicked. For no reason other than he was white. I did too. My brother got it worse he was a year older.

Anyways, that was the 1970s. And it’s funny my brother and I are more liberal than most whites who never even met a black. They never had the bad experiences we did. I have empathy.

But, Howard said it the other day. He certainly wasn’t accepted by the black community. High school blacks are not very nice to white kids who are in the minority

And my cousins went to a 75% white school. The black kids formed gangs.

I think it’s funny when they say black neighborhoods are safer than white. Or that I don’t know what I’m talking about because I’m white. Everyone in my grandmothers neighborhood had bars on the windows.

The city next to mine was just voted 3rd safest place in Oakland county. Not one black city made the list

1. I stand by my previous statement that it is not ethical to discriminate against a white person because you assume that somewhere else a black person is being discriminated against.

2. It is not funny that you and your brother are more liberal than "whites who never even met a black". It does raise the question of why you are empathetic to your bullies and not to your potentially fellow victims.

3. YOur personal knowledge of the violence found in black communities is interesting and I do appreciate that you do not hide it, even though it undermines your liberal political positions.

Have you ever been in an interview with someone you knew didn’t like you? You knew it wasn’t going well?

Yes. And?

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

Why do you continue lying to yourself? You are white telling us blacks how we are wrong and it's not based in any understanding of the destructive nature of racism. You talk about how we act. How do we act sealybobo?

You whites have an interesting perspective that allows you to miss all the wrongs your race commits in order to declare your victimhood. You say you got beat up only because you were white. No you didn't. You are unable to understand the anger you got was due to years of white racism those blacks face. I say black communities have less crime than white ones because that's what 25 years of Uniform Crime Reports say. Whites don't have bars on their windows and get robbed, raped and vandalized more than anyone else. Then you read or hear the same comment every time, "I can't believe this happened, we don't live in that kind of community."

We are not jews in Israel who are expanding settlements into Palestinian territory while claiming how terrible the Palestinians are. You are white and whites have been telling us what to do since 1776. Everything whites tell us to do, they've never done it. You have nothing to tell me because you ignore the root cause of the problem. Whites have what they do because they made laws at every level to provide them with an advantage. Historical white racism has been the problem in the Detroit metro area just like everywhere else. In 1993 I helped file a class action lawsuit for racial discrimination against a corporation HQ'd in Detroit.

Blacks are angry about how we have been treated. We know what our problems are and what created them. You don't. And that has always been the problem with you white liberals. You think you have suggestions we need to hear and none of it ever addresses the root cause or it's compound effects on black people.

Sealy does understand the anger you feel, and he agrees with it. That is why he is giving "blacks" a pass for their repeated beatings of him.


And when you say that the black kids did not beat him up because he was white, but because of anger at "years of white racism",


dude. That is those kids being seely up because he was white.


Your hate is making say and do stupid things.



I understand the anger too. And I dont' give those punks a pass for their violent racist assaults.

 

[Correll]

1. I stand by my previous statement that it is not ethical to discriminate against a white person because you assume that somewhere else a black person is being discriminated against.

2. It is not funny that you and your brother are more liberal than "whites who never even met a black". It does raise the question of why you are empathetic to your bullies and not to your potentially fellow victims.

3. YOur personal knowledge of the violence found in black communities is interesting and I do appreciate that you do not hide it, even though it undermines your liberal political positions.

Have you ever been in an interview with someone you knew didn’t like you? You knew it wasn’t going well?

Yes. And?

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

1. You assume that the issue is that the white managers just don't like blacks. Saying "the numbers show it" is not a supporting argument.

2. But, you do inadvertently raise the issue of blacks being told their whole lives that the white hiring managers won't like them. I can see that being a factor with at least some of the black applicants

3. That bit where you were run out of the company for the sake of the black employee? That was anti-white racism, and if it happened to you, the odds that it JUST happened to you, is pretty low.

4. Your assumption that the white man hiring, is biased against minority candidates is just an assumption. Especially odd given that you have given an example of a white ceo demanding a minority VP, and cited the large number of ceos that strongly support diversity hiring and the example of google that I provided.


5. People who don't vote, often have good reasons. I have no desire for people that don't think they should vote, to vote. I trust their judgement on themselves.

6. Blacks and Poor whites are not "second class citizens". They are underserved voter groups. That they have been failed is on our political class, not on them. NOte the way that poor whites were happy to mobilize when some one came along and spoke to their interests. Liberals should consider how to speak out to black interests if they want higher voting from blacks.


7. Your need to constantly keep the flame alive of race baiting, is not something to endear you to poor whites, who pay the price for that shit.

How come you didn't bring up this argument?

rican Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. The gap appears before children enter kindergarten and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on almost every standardized test......

Because you (personally as you, and you as a member of group liberal) are the one(s) making the claim that unequal outcomes must be caused by racist discrimination.


It is on you to support that argument.

I am happy simply pointing out that you cannot.


AND pointing out the real discrimination faced by whites, such as your examples of being pushed out of a company while they focus on nurturing the black guys.


And you know, I generally don't touch on your stories about being beaten up for being white, because I am not trying to play silly gotcha games.


BUT, seriously, violence inflicted on some one due to the color of their skin, is ICONIC racism, and for you to give them a pass for their actions,


is not called for.



I condemn all racist violence.

 

[sealybobo]

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

1. You assume that the issue is that the white managers just don't like blacks. Saying "the numbers show it" is not a supporting argument.

2. But, you do inadvertently raise the issue of blacks being told their whole lives that the white hiring managers won't like them. I can see that being a factor with at least some of the black applicants

3. That bit where you were run out of the company for the sake of the black employee? That was anti-white racism, and if it happened to you, the odds that it JUST happened to you, is pretty low.

4. Your assumption that the white man hiring, is biased against minority candidates is just an assumption. Especially odd given that you have given an example of a white ceo demanding a minority VP, and cited the large number of ceos that strongly support diversity hiring and the example of google that I provided.


5. People who don't vote, often have good reasons. I have no desire for people that don't think they should vote, to vote. I trust their judgement on themselves.

6. Blacks and Poor whites are not "second class citizens". They are underserved voter groups. That they have been failed is on our political class, not on them. NOte the way that poor whites were happy to mobilize when some one came along and spoke to their interests. Liberals should consider how to speak out to black interests if they want higher voting from blacks.


7. Your need to constantly keep the flame alive of race baiting, is not something to endear you to poor whites, who pay the price for that shit.

You are right. We should let Republicans run everything like they do in Red states

Are 97 of the nation's 100 poorest counties in red states?

Please go back and actually answer the points I made.

Just look at which side started this thread. And what is the subject? Who is controlling the message and playing the race card here? Be honest

We were having quite a discussion, heavily based on your personal experiences and observations, and now you want to shit can all of that, and start the whole discussion over?


Could you be honest as to why you want to do that?


I thought you made some great points. And I made some even better ones.


And I really appreciate your honesty in sharing your examples. Most liberals would lie, either to themselves or me.


imo, I think we can to a point, where we reached the underlying differences of perception on the facts that cause at least some of our political disagreements.

Have you seen me calling usmb blacks out on this? The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done

This probably is a big factor in why blacks aren't doing better in the workplace but even this USMB blacks deny. Their neighborhoods aren't more dangerous, fatherlessness is not a problem and their kids low test scores isn't real either.

These USMB blacks are like Trump. If they don't like the facts they just call it fake news.

 

[sealybobo]

Have you ever been in an interview with someone you knew didn’t like you? You knew it wasn’t going well?

Yes. And?

Well black people deal with white hiring managers who don't like blacks. We see that in the numbers. But black people aren't doing themselves any favors the way they act. And white hiring managers may pick up on those slight differences. For example if he talks with a black affect, imagine how he talks once he's comfortably working there. And if you don't like working with the guy you can't get rid of him like you can a white guy. That is stone cold fact. I've been run out of companies when I was doing better than the black guy, who they were tenderly nurturing towards success.

I'm not saying hire a less qualified black or woman I'm saying look beyond your bias and maybe give the minority or woman a chance seeing as how 95% of the bosses are all white men.

But if you have any kind of red flag it is your right as an employer to not hire someone.

I'm just about done arguing for the other side. It's like arguing with people in Israel and trying to tell them they aren't 100% right in their struggles with the Palestinians. A Jew, like a black, will never admit one fault of their own.

And they don't even vote. They are rightfully second class citizens. Any class of people who doesn't vote should be treated as such. Same thing happens to poor white neighborhoods. They are to blame for themselves. They refuse to assimilate and politicians don't care about people who don't vote.

And Republican politicians don't give a fuck about poor white people because they have their votes already based on racism, god, guns and gays. No need to bring economic opportunity to their dumb asses.

1. You assume that the issue is that the white managers just don't like blacks. Saying "the numbers show it" is not a supporting argument.

2. But, you do inadvertently raise the issue of blacks being told their whole lives that the white hiring managers won't like them. I can see that being a factor with at least some of the black applicants

3. That bit where you were run out of the company for the sake of the black employee? That was anti-white racism, and if it happened to you, the odds that it JUST happened to you, is pretty low.

4. Your assumption that the white man hiring, is biased against minority candidates is just an assumption. Especially odd given that you have given an example of a white ceo demanding a minority VP, and cited the large number of ceos that strongly support diversity hiring and the example of google that I provided.


5. People who don't vote, often have good reasons. I have no desire for people that don't think they should vote, to vote. I trust their judgement on themselves.

6. Blacks and Poor whites are not "second class citizens". They are underserved voter groups. That they have been failed is on our political class, not on them. NOte the way that poor whites were happy to mobilize when some one came along and spoke to their interests. Liberals should consider how to speak out to black interests if they want higher voting from blacks.


7. Your need to constantly keep the flame alive of race baiting, is not something to endear you to poor whites, who pay the price for that shit.

How come you didn't bring up this argument?

rican Americans score lower than European Americans on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence. The gap appears before children enter kindergarten and it persists into adulthood. It has narrowed since 1970, but the typical American black still scores below 75 percent of American whites on almost every standardized test......

Because you (personally as you, and you as a member of group liberal) are the one(s) making the claim that unequal outcomes must be caused by racist discrimination.


It is on you to support that argument.

I am happy simply pointing out that you cannot.


AND pointing out the real discrimination faced by whites, such as your examples of being pushed out of a company while they focus on nurturing the black guys.


And you know, I generally don't touch on your stories about being beaten up for being white, because I am not trying to play silly gotcha games.


BUT, seriously, violence inflicted on some one due to the color of their skin, is ICONIC racism, and for you to give them a pass for their actions,


is not called for.



I condemn all racist violence.

I simply understand where the anger comes from. They are taught that whites are the devil. Imagine if IM2 is teaching his kid the same shit he says here and his kid goes to an all black school except for 3 white kids. Of course they are going to take it out on the white kids that they are second class citizens. Lets face it, blacks aren't teaching their kids right. Not inner city blacks. I'm not talking about my black neighbors I'm talking about inner city poverty blacks.

By the way, I got in a lot of fights when I moved to an all white neighborhood because of my long Greek last name. My dad was told at Ford by his white co-workers to go back to his own country.

My mom took my brother to a kids birthday party. Gift in hand she and he walk up to the door and the dad answers and says, "no fucking way a white person will ever step foot in my house" and then slammed the door on them.

With my personality my brother and parents are sure I would have never made it out of that school alive. I have a big mouth and fight back.

P.S. I remember one black moved to my all white highschool. People were very mean to him. Very racist. So what does he do? He steals my buddies varsity jacket. He and a wigger buddy of his buried his jacket. Why would they do that? Why would the black kid prove he is what all the racists think he is? Anyways, my buddies dad was in the FBI and went to the kids house, kicked in his door and at gunpoint made him take him to where the jacket was buried and made him dig it up.