Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

[LordBrownTrout]

Senate Democrats are expediting legislation that would override the Supreme Court's decision in the Hobby Lobby case and compel for-profit employers to cover the full range of contraception for their employees, as required by the Affordable Care Act.

The bill, which is co-authored by Sens. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would ban for-profit companies from refusing to cover any federally guaranteed health benefits for religious reasons, including all 20 forms of contraception detailed in the Affordable Care Act. It would preserve the contraception mandate's current exemption for churches and accommodation for non-profit religious organizations, such as certain hospitals and schools.

A Senate aide told HuffPost that the bill will be introduced as soon as Tuesday night and go directly to the Senate floor as early as next week, without being considered in committee.

"The U.S. Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision opened the door to unprecedented corporate intrusion into our private lives. Coloradans understand that women should never have to ask their bosses for a permission slip to access common forms of birth control or other critical health services," Udall said in a statement. "My common-sense proposal will keep women's private health decisions out of corporate board rooms, because your boss shouldn't be able to dictate what is best for you and your family."

MORE: Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

Sounds good. Get it done.

Not happening. Bills originate in the house.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This thread is a freaking mind bender. Left wing whackos have gone off the deep end.

What's cracking me up thru this debate is that feminazis are demanding to be taken care of. I'm an old school feminist.

The last thing on the planet I fought for when the movement first started was to have someone else take care of me. Good grief. That's what we fought against.

We wanted equality so we could make our own way. Unreal.

Leftism is totalitarian by nature. It is the belief that all assets are property of the state. This includes people. Since people are property of our rulers, then it is up to our rulers to dictate what people will do.

The left is offended by the notion that people are ever allowed to make decisions for themselves. Our rulers know best and must never be questioned. Lord Obama dictated that abortion will be provided by all employers, to object is racism and a hate crime. To claim that the owners of a business can decide what to spend their capital on means that the capital belongs to the business, not to the rulers of the state. So that offends leftists.

democrats offer freedom through unquestioning obedience.

 

[Contumacious]

Senate Democrats are expediting legislation that would override the Supreme Court's decision in the Hobby Lobby case and compel for-profit employers to cover the full range of contraception for their employees, as required by the Affordable Care Act.

The bill, which is co-authored by Sens. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would ban for-profit companies from refusing to cover any federally guaranteed health benefits for religious reasons, including all 20 forms of contraception detailed in the Affordable Care Act. It would preserve the contraception mandate's current exemption for churches and accommodation for non-profit religious organizations, such as certain hospitals and schools.

A Senate aide told HuffPost that the bill will be introduced as soon as Tuesday night and go directly to the Senate floor as early as next week, without being considered in committee.

"The U.S. Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision opened the door to unprecedented corporate intrusion into our private lives. Coloradans understand that women should never have to ask their bosses for a permission slip to access common forms of birth control or other critical health services," Udall said in a statement. "My common-sense proposal will keep women's private health decisions out of corporate board rooms, because your boss shouldn't be able to dictate what is best for you and your family."

MORE: Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

Sounds good. Get it done.

Not happening. Bills originate in the house.

REVENUE bills ---are supposed to originate --in the House.

But as seen with Obama Hellcare they can disregard the Constitutional proviso with impunity.

.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Sounds good. Get it done.

It will go nowhere, as it is illegal legislation.

It's your fault this happened, by the way.

Oh that Lakhota's parents had had access to the morning after pill.

Leftists promote late term abortion. I say it's not too late to abort Shitting Bull.

 

[Uncensored2008]

there is nothing stupid in the proposed law. it's what the Court should have held.

You leftists waged a frontal assault on the 1st Amendment. The Court upheld the Constitution. Your goal was to subvert the Constitution, but to say that the Court should have subverted the 1st is simply stupid.

Yes, you hoped that you could repeal basic civil rights, but there was no legitimate alternative for the court than to rule as they did.

What is shocking is that this was not an 8-1 decision. That old Marxist **** Gingsburg has been clear about her contempt for the Constitutions, no one expects to anything from her but to work for the destruction of the nation.

but no, it isn't law until its passed. and even then, if the Court has already ruled on an issue, I don't think new legislation will get around it....

This nonsense will never leave committee. It is just red meat to throw the drooling morons, like you. There is no intent to actually try to pass this.

unless of course scalia takes his much needed retirement.

Of they finally shoot Ginsburg for treason, as should have happened decades ago.

 

[LockeJaw]

What a joke this is...it's to rally supporters, hopefully to get larger turnouts at the polls. Nothing is going to happen with this.

Just go buy your abortion pills out of pocket, they're not that expensive.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

DIPSHIT: Force my employer to buy me stuff.

UNCLE SAM: Here you go. I will fine them if they don't buy you this stuff.

EMPLOYER: I should not be forced to buy someone else stuff.

DIPSHIT: He's intruding into my life!!! WAAAAAAH!

You see, this is where I have to disagree.

Your employer is not "buying you stuff", you are earning health coverage as part of your compensation for labor performed. All ACA did was standardize what constituted a valid insurance policy. And in most cases, the employees are doing a pay-in from their own salaries to pay for it.

Specifically, in the case of Hobby Lobby, they paid for these four forms of contraception before the ACA was passed without a problem. Then after ACA stipulated that they had to cover contraception, then Hobby Lobby suddenly 'discovered' that they were 'just like abortion' and violated their "spiritual beliefs".

Of course, there are two easy ways around this. End employer insurance, give every employee the equivalent to what the subsidy was and let them buy their own insurance. Private insurance would collapse in about a year when young people don't buy and old people can't afford.

The other option would be to have single payer, have the government set prices and eliminate the overhead of profit-taking insurance companies that pay their executives 8 and 9 figure salaries.

And this is where you are wrong because tax law clearly states that you have to pay taxes on what you earn, and you do not pay taxes on health care benefits.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Here's what is happening people, pay attention:

Obama and the Democrats know this will go no where. BUT, it's an election year and they want to build a case for the non-existant war on women. So they will use the guaranteed defeat of this bill as a whip to try to beat the GOP with.

The only question is, will the American Voter be that stupid twice?

I'm sure the House has a full schedule already and won't be able to fit this Senate Bill in.

I predict it won't even pass the Senate, even if the Republicans don't block it. There aren't that many Democrats that are willing to give up their seats simply to back a crazy Harry Reid push for idiocy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The issue is HL still paid for up to 15 other contraceptives.

-Geaux

Completely irrelevant.

Hobby Lobby is not a doctor. They are not a medical professional.

They have no standing to determine which of 20 available forms of contraception are the most medically appropriate for a given case.

Then you shouldn't have a fucking problem with them because they are not doing that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Isn't the real issue at it's most basic whether religious beliefs should trump the law of the land?

Somehow I don't think the SCOTUS decision was based on that.

I'm pretty sure it was.
It cited religious beliefs as being a reasonable excuse to refuse the contraceptive coverage.
The RFRA was cited.

This from the decision page 49

The contraceptive mandate, as applied to closely held
corporations, violates RFRA

I guess you missed the point there, the RFRA is the law of the land. That means that religious beliefs didn't trump anything, the law did.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Isn't the real issue at it's most basic whether religious beliefs should trump the law of the land?

The free practice of religious beliefs is guaranteed by the Constitution...the law of the land.

SCOTUS upheld that.

No one was denying the owners of HL the freedom to practice their religion.

Does lying about everything come naturally to you, or did you have to work on it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You see, this is where I have to disagree.

Your employer is not "buying you stuff", you are earning health coverage as part of your compensation for labor performed. All ACA did was standardize what constituted a valid insurance policy. And in most cases, the employees are doing a pay-in from their own salaries to pay for it.

So it is the government's responsibility to dictate to employers what is provided as part of compensation. Do modern liberals ever stop bending shit to fit the narrative? It is, or should be, up to the employer to decide what compensation will be provided in conjunction with employee negotiation.

um. Yes. The government dictates these sorts of things all the time, from Equal Pay laws, to minimum wage laws, to all sorts of regulations as to what constitutes a valid insurance plan.

The thing is, these employees don't have a union and don't have the ability to "negotiate" beyond "Take it or leave it".






Well, it is relevant in that if you accept that compensation packages are negotiated, then Hobby Lobby changing the terms of what had already been agreed to is a breech of faith.

As far as the court, this farce will only last as long as the Relics Kennedy and Scalia stay on board.

Of course, there are two easy ways around this. End employer insurance, give every employee the equivalent to what the subsidy was and let them buy their own insurance. Private insurance would collapse in about a year when young people don't buy and old people can't afford.

The other option would be to have single payer, have the government set prices and eliminate the overhead of profit-taking insurance companies that pay their executives 8 and 9 figure salaries.

Yes, we know you want the government to take over and set all prices. Eliminating profit. It's about as American as it gets today.

So you think whether you live or die should be based on whether someone else makes a profit on it?

Really? Frankly, having been screwed over a couple of times by employers looking at "profits" (and getting it wrong) I'm not sure I'd want them running health care for me.

Every other industrialized democracy has single payer. They spend less, they have longer life expectencies, their infant mortality rates are lower. More to the point, they are more competitive in their businesses because the cost of health care isn't tacked on to every product they make.

Then feel free to take them to court for violating the terms of any contract you had with them.

Wait, there wasn't a fucking contract, they just provided benefits to their employees out of their religious convictions and the goodness of their hearts, and then the government stepped in and tried to force them to comply with an absurd law.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm pretty sure it was.
It cited religious beliefs as being a reasonable excuse to refuse the contraceptive coverage.
The RFRA was cited.

This from the decision page 49

Are you sure it wasn't because the HHS arbitrarily added abortion drugs to the mandate that wasn't voted on in the original bill?

My understanding was that the case was brought the court on the basis of religious freedom and was upheld.

I'm no expert in law unlike so many here so I'm happy to be corrected.

Your understanding is wrong, the entire challenge was based on the RFRA, not religious freedom. The 1st Amendment was never dealt with in the decision, just statutory law that bound the government to actually defend its actions when they did something that infringed on people's rights. Frankly, anyone that places freedom above tyranny should be rejoicing int he decision, but you chose to defend tyranny. That makes you wrong, period.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Come on folks.

The Govt is here to help. Yeah. Right.

The only people they seem to help are the freeloaders at other peoples expense.

HL won their case in the SC. Doubt the Dems can do anything about it.

The Dems own the ACA. They passed that little jewel all on their lonesome and I sure hope those that hate it remember that factoid come 16.

Actually, this decision is a disaster for the Republicans. Once again, they are having a "Todd Akin" moment of clueless old white men talking about women's naughty bits.

This never ends well for you guys.

Are you aware that one of those old white men isn't white? Or do you just get your talking points from Harry Reid?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

What I think, Sparky, and what the rest of you dullards need to start to realize, is that you do not have any right to someone else's services. If they want to charge me for them, I can pay, or not. That's how it goes. The fact that you believe you actually have the right to force someone to give you something or provide a service to you is the tall blade of grass in your lawn. Everything you believe is surrounded on this central supposition. From there, you're more than happy to use third party force, theft, coercion to receive it.

Or just something called "Democracy". we win elections, we compel what we want.

Here's the thing. Hobby Lobby is not providing health care out of the goodness of their Christian Hearts. They are providing it so they can attract employees. It is compensation for labor performed.

Now, that said, the way we do health care is completely retarded.

We have 100 million who get it from the government, the dreaded socialism you fear. These include the very poor, the very old and veterans, people that the private sector you love so much wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

Most of the rest get it through their jobs. Which means the cost of insuring them is tacked on to every good and service produced.

So not surprisingly, privately insured people have a 30% overhead on the cost of their medical care, as opposed to MediCare which has a 3% overhead.

so while GM is spending more on health care than they do for steel, their Japanese competitors simply have the government handle health care and they can produce cars for a cheaper cost.

Excuse me, fuckwad, until it is taxed as compensation it is not compensation. You really need to stop lying about what health insurance provided by employers is.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[q

Bottom line- When someone receives a service or product from the government for 'free' it unarguably came at a cost to someone else.

-Geaux

Except not really applicable to this case.

Here's the thing. The insurance companies had no problem providing this kind of birth control compared to other kinds of birth control. They all cost about the same and birth control is STILL cheaper than paying for a live birth and years of subsequent pediatric medicine.

The problem here was not cost. The problem here is that the superstitious idiots who run Hobby Lobby think that certain kinds of birth control make their Invisible Pixie in the Sky cry.

Which is not the basis for sound policy.

The real problem is that you believe that crap.

Tell me something, how the fuck does providing free birth control stop all pregnancy? Doesn't the fucking law actually require insurers to pay for pregnancy and pediatric services if the person taking birth control decides to get pregnant? do you honestly believe that people will stop getting pregnant just because they have access to something they already have access to?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Completely irrelevant.

Hobby Lobby is not a doctor. They are not a medical professional.

They have no standing to determine which of 20 available forms of contraception are the most medically appropriate for a given case.

The government is not a doctor or professional either.

-Geaux

And they aren't telling women what they can't have.

Hobby Lobby is. Because they are totally against abortion unless you are a Chinese Fetus. then you are kind of on your own.

How is me telling you I won't pay for your food denying you food? Can't you buy it yourself?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And they aren't telling women what they can't have.

Hobby Lobby is. Because they are totally against abortion unless you are a Chinese Fetus. then you are kind of on your own.

But the government is telling women what they must have.

-Geaux

No. Not even close.

The government is saying you can have any of the 20 forms available or choose not to use it at all. But whatever you choose, your insurance should cover it.

That's actually kind of reasonable.

If it is actually reasonable the government can fucking pay for it, the unreasonable part is when they force other people to pay for it. the fact that you support the government forcing people to pay for things is what makes you wrong.

Feel free to argue that taxes works the same way as forcing people to do something, I can cite multiple cases where the Supreme Court disagreed, all of which you will end up admitting they are right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Such pious Christians

Several of the mutual funds in Hobby Lobby's retirement plan have stock holdings in companies that manufacture the specific drugs and devices that the Green family, which owns Hobby Lobby, is fighting to keep out of Hobby Lobby's health care policies: the emergency contraceptive pills Plan B and Ella, and copper and hormonal intrauterine devices.

Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception Manufacturers | Mother Jones

Wow, you have such an original argument there.


Not.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And they aren't telling women what they can't have.

Hobby Lobby is. Because they are totally against abortion unless you are a Chinese Fetus. then you are kind of on your own.

How long do you guys plan to continue this lie? You keep equating "will not provide" with "can not have" or "forcing religion onto employees" as your arguments. Which significantly lack logic, reason or rational thought. The employees are more than welcome to go and get those items if they want them. You're not entitled to other people's goods and services. I do not give a shit for what reason the employer chooses not to provide an item. My job doesn't provide free lunch either.

A Hobby Lobby employee makes $9.00 an hour. Which is $18,000 a year if she is lucky enough to work a full 40 hour week. Before Taxes. After taxes, it's probably about $15,000 a year.

The cost of an IUD without insurance is $1000.00. that puts it well beyond her economic reach.

Sorry, saying, "You can't have this kind of birth control because I am a superstitious jackass who believes in Bronze Age Fairy Tales" is telling them they can't have it and is forcing your religion onto others.

Damn, nothing but lies.

First, Hobby Lobby pays $11.00 an hour, not $9.00.

Second, IUDs are available through Planned Parenthood on a sliding scale basis. Even without that they actualy start at $500, not $1000, and last 12 years. That makes the cost of the IUD less than $50 a year.