Democrats freaking out about church voice regarding abortion

[ding]

As is the case in legal matters, once discredited, believing a witness is hard to do.

A few days ago I thought that you might provide a formidable discussion. I can now see I was wrong about that.

Would you care to debate me in the bull ring?

Not familiar with the bull ring, but I would be happy to debate anyone when I have time, which I am running out of soon.
Maybe later. Please feel free to remind me another day.

I will be honored to do so.

Noted. Thanks.
I will leave after a few more responses in various threads, but I look forward.

I'm sure you do.

 

[denmark]

I doubt that ancient men and women knew ANYTHING about their origins. Nearly all of them travelled only a limited distance and likely believed the Earth was flat.
You may be an engineer, but a scientist you’re not.
A singularity is not “nothing” and scientists have no evidence or beliefs of “spirits”.

What is your definition of a "scientist?"

In what world is an engineer not a scientist? Did you finish high school?

A scientist is one who follows a field-relevant scientific method to produce evidence and propose interpretations based on that data and statistical probabilities.

 

[Uncensored2008]

A scientist is one who follows a field-relevant scientific method to produce evidence and propose interpretations based on that data and statistical probabilities.

Then why would you ignorantly claim that an engineer is anything but a scientist?

As for interpretations, these must be driven by data and supported by observable, repeatable, and verifiable facts.

 

[there4eyeM]

DNC Chairman Tom Perez is very upset that Americans listen to what they hear in church

Apparently there are those in the DNC livid about what is being said about abortion in churches all around the US. I think they would either like to censor the speech or create a voice that is equal or greater to the ones in church.

So if you are a Progressive, how can the DNC overcome the church?

Dear Votto
Actually the Catholic Church advocates against the Death Penalty
are one of the strongest allies with Progressives for prison, immigration and worker Reforms.

This issue has come up before in the Houston Peace and Justice community.
The Liberals for prison reform and against the Death Penalty have been able
to work in partnership with MANY Catholic clergy and members to address
the "dehumanizing" mentality behind War and Capital Punishment and
collective abuse and oppression of "poor masses" seen and treated as faceless nameless and voiceless.

the LIBERAL Christians on the Left have no problem aligning with Liberals on common issues.

What is MISSING is the knowledge and practice of Christian Spiritual Healing
that would not only end the drug addictions and abuse fueling the Drug Wars
(that incidentally is uniting both Left and Right on that cause despite divisions over immigration)
but would also reform the entire prison system, medical and mental health system
by drastically cutting the cost of criminal disorders and corrections and allow
effective rehab, recovery and meaningful social and financial restitution for crimes.

It seems the issue of drug and human trafficking that is victimizing poor people
may be the key to uniting Left and Right. And the solution to ending abuse and
addiction is the very Spiritual Healing that Christians and even Catholics are supposed to be teaching and practicing.

This knowledge has been suppressed, censored, and denied
by rejection of Christianity particularly by the Left that has no understanding of it.

Somewhere in there is the key to breaking through this deadlock dividing left and right
and uniting people on common solutions instead of fighting to blame each other for problems!

Like the Catholics during the reign of terror of Hitler, they just looked the other way when it comes to issues of mass genocide.

It could be they feared for their lives or perhaps they loved the socialist economy that kept the average German citizen living large with free everything.

Either way, I don't care, and nor should anyone else. They were equally as guilty for not resisting.

I don't believe you have the whole story or even attempted looking for it.

Why then was the tree referred to as the tree of "Knowledge"?

Seems kind of self explanatory if you ask me.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, dualism. The knowledge of division, not knowledge itself.

 

[emilynghiem]

Such as?

Such as claiming that Jesus of Nazareth was the “son of God” and “God” himself,
That Eve was the first woman on Earth and God made her from Adam’s rib, etc.

WRT the account of Adam and Eve and the fall from grace... We are so far removed from these events that they have lost original meaning. The first 11 chapters of Genesis is the allegorical account of world history that every nation shares. Sprinkled in were wisdoms. These accounts had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years until they were eventually recorded in writing. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. Suffice it to say, ancient man believed that the material world was created by spirit and that man was a product of that creation. The account of Adam and Eve is the allegorical account of when mankind became conscious of himself, his surrounding and his Creator. Lost in all the critical evaluations is that the fall from grace tells us maybe the single most important thing about man that we should know which is man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong.

WRT to the account of Jesus, if you don't believe it is possible that the material world was created by spirit, then beliefs about Jesus won't make much sense to you. Right?

I understand that stories (myths?) were passed down orally for many generations before writing/publications took over, but why retain ridiculous fairy-tale stories about Eve’s origin and her “original sin” for responding to a talking serpent?
Do you really believe that?

I believe they are allegorical accounts. I don't read them literally. Do you?

Classic pick and choose religious belief.

Dear Hollie
Doesn't everyone do this?
Defend their own version of their beliefs,
while finding fault with others.

Are you a rare exception?

Do you respect the free exercise of other's people's beliefs
equally to your own? Or don't you defend and value
your own beliefs OVER those of others when in conflict?

Honestly I have tried to live up to the standards of
the Golden Rule and respecting others as I would want them to respect me,
my free choice, and my beliefs, biases and all;
and to enforce the standards of Equal Justice and Protection of the laws
for ALL people REGARDLESS of beliefs.

I find most people "pick and choose" don't you?

Don't you find it contradictory when
* people who push "right to life" through
govt fight against "right to heath care" as creating "involuntary servitude"
or vice versa
* people who push "right to health care" mandated through govt
are opposed to pushing "right to life" beliefs through govt

Isn't that "picking and choosing"
WHICH BELIEFS are acceptable to push through govt
and which "violate Constitutional limits by establishing biases or beliefs"

Don't you find "selective" bias and beliefs
on both sides of the spectrum? Isn't this human
nature to defend what we believe from imposition by others?

And isn't it contradicting the Golden Rule and Equal Justice
to defend our beliefs MORE or OVER the beliefs of others?
Shouldn't equality mean we respect everyone's beliefs
regardless of our personal biases?

 

[hadit]

People opposed to abortion should use every propaganda method at their disposal, just not legislative. Educate. If people learn, perhaps they'll agree with you. If they don't, they don't. Until then, the decision is the woman's.

I see, so prove that the unborn are or are not really human? How does one go about that I wonder? Shouldn't that have been done before murdering over 50 million since Roe vs Wade?

Or we can just believe in the Birth Fairy. You know the Birth Fairy, she waves her magic wand over the unborn child as it exists the womb, thus making it human.

Or you can just make your own decisions for yourself and stay the fuck out of other people's lives,Bible boy.

Are those mean old Christians bothering you again? How dare they write their thoughts where you can see them!

 

[emilynghiem]

DNC Chairman Tom Perez is very upset that Americans listen to what they hear in church

Apparently there are those in the DNC livid about what is being said about abortion in churches all around the US. I think they would either like to censor the speech or create a voice that is equal or greater to the ones in church.

So if you are a Progressive, how can the DNC overcome the church?

Dear Votto
Actually the Catholic Church advocates against the Death Penalty
are one of the strongest allies with Progressives for prison, immigration and worker Reforms.

This issue has come up before in the Houston Peace and Justice community.
The Liberals for prison reform and against the Death Penalty have been able
to work in partnership with MANY Catholic clergy and members to address
the "dehumanizing" mentality behind War and Capital Punishment and
collective abuse and oppression of "poor masses" seen and treated as faceless nameless and voiceless.

the LIBERAL Christians on the Left have no problem aligning with Liberals on common issues.

What is MISSING is the knowledge and practice of Christian Spiritual Healing
that would not only end the drug addictions and abuse fueling the Drug Wars
(that incidentally is uniting both Left and Right on that cause despite divisions over immigration)
but would also reform the entire prison system, medical and mental health system
by drastically cutting the cost of criminal disorders and corrections and allow
effective rehab, recovery and meaningful social and financial restitution for crimes.

It seems the issue of drug and human trafficking that is victimizing poor people
may be the key to uniting Left and Right. And the solution to ending abuse and
addiction is the very Spiritual Healing that Christians and even Catholics are supposed to be teaching and practicing.

This knowledge has been suppressed, censored, and denied
by rejection of Christianity particularly by the Left that has no understanding of it.

Somewhere in there is the key to breaking through this deadlock dividing left and right
and uniting people on common solutions instead of fighting to blame each other for problems!

Like the Catholics during the reign of terror of Hitler, they just looked the other way when it comes to issues of mass genocide.

It could be they feared for their lives or perhaps they loved the socialist economy that kept the average German citizen living large with free everything.

Either way, I don't care, and nor should anyone else. They were equally as guilty for not resisting.

I don't believe you have the whole story or even attempted looking for it.

Why then was the tree referred to as the tree of "Knowledge"?

Seems kind of self explanatory if you ask me.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, dualism. The knowledge of division, not knowledge itself.

Dear there4eyeM
Yes and No.
There is always going to be a difference
between secular nontheists and Christian Theists
who go by Natural laws or by Spiritual laws.

The REAL issue is "do we FORGIVE our differences"

The division is not the problem but the
mutual rejection because of UNFORGIVENESS
and projecting blame back and forth
instead of SHARING mutual responsibility
regardless how different our beliefs, even polar opposites.

Where people FORGIVE differences, anyone can work
together from any groups and there is no issue.

I've worked with prochoice and prolife advocates
on solutions we AGREE will prevent abortion,
regardless what our positions are if abortion itself should be legal or illegal.

The same solutions that will end the scourge of mental and criminal illness behind violent shootings
still work regardless if someone is for or against gun control or no govt regulations at all of guns.

We can better work together by FORGIVING
whatever differences we have, even if they make us otherwise incompatible.

The key factor is Unforgiveness that fuels vicious cycles of destruction.
We will always have "divisions" between how men and women operate,
how left and right, how secular vs spiritual people approach laws of church and state.

We just don't have to let these divisions obstruct us.
But find creative constructive ways to ORGANIZE by groups,
like an orchestra with many diverse sections all playing different parts,
so we can get on the same page, play in harmony and make music!

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes, what Christians need is religiophobic assholes "educating" them about how their beliefs are wrong, and how much "smarter" they would be if they were just like you. Because I'm sure lots of people look at you and say, "I want to be just like that!"

Why do you people never wonder if maybe YOU are the biggest reason why Christians don't listen to anything you say? Does it ever cross your mind that they look at you and think, "If that's what atheism and hating religion does for you, get me to the church FAST"?

“You people”? I don’t represent anyone else. As Jesus supposedly said, don’t judge others!


So, do YOU believe that Eve was born from Adam’s rib?

Who said you represented anyone? "You people" means "dungheads who think the same things". Surely you didn't think your religiophobic babble was original?

And as I have not yet said a word about the state of your soul, nor do I intend to, I have not violated any instructions from the Bible about judging. Which you would know, if you bothered to know anything about the subject you're arrogantly presuming to instruct me on.

What I actually believe is that you have nothing to teach me about anything I would want to know, and doubly nothing when the subject is religion. There is no world in which I do not look at you and think, "Yeah, I'm better off without any of that."

Is is embarrassing for you to try and answer my question, which you overlooked:
“Do YOU believe that Eve was born from Adam’s rib?”

Do you? And if you don't what is the significance of the entire account?

Could it be that ancient man believed that spirit created the material world and that man is a product of the material world?

And before you dismiss spirit creating the material world that is exactly the conclusion science has arrived at which is that space and time were created from nothing. Spirit is no thing. Space and time were created from no thing.

I doubt that ancient men and women knew ANYTHING about their origins. Nearly all of them travelled only a limited distance and likely believed the Earth was flat.
You may be an engineer, but a scientist you’re not.
A singularity is not “nothing” and scientists have no evidence or beliefs of “spirits”.

Dear denmark
There has been medical research on the EFFECTS of spiritual healing,
even if the actual process cannot be proven to be going on an "spiritual level."

So even if you just apply the scientific methods to measure
"before and after", even if you can't prove a spiritual process
or anything "causal" -- it can be shown that the FORGIVENESS
factor used in Spiritual Healing CORRELATES with better effective RECOVERY
and HEALING rates and outcomes. Whereas "unforgiveness"
CORRELATES with less effective rates of healing and recovery.

Sources: Study on Rheumatoid Arthritis funded in part by the
Templeton Foundation where the Spiritual Healing methods used
by the team headed by Francis MacNutt and his Christian Healing
Ministry were measured and found to have positive effects, even
curing some patients where the only factor that the healing could
be attributed to was the spiritual healing team prayers.
www.christianhealingmin.org HEALING by Francis MacNutt, edition 1999 or later

The way Christian Healing works is by praying to forgive and remove any
perceived spiritual blocks to natural healing connecting the mind and body.
This is referred to as a Spiritual process, but even my Atheist friends who
have applied forgiveness in recovery don't necessarily believe in any personified
God or Jesus in order to apply this method to enhance the mind/body natural
ability to self heal. Whatever you want to call it, forgiveness has the same
universal effect on the human mind and body to maximize natural healing.

 

[hadit]

A scientist is one who follows a field-relevant scientific method to produce evidence and propose interpretations based on that data and statistical probabilities.

Then why would you ignorantly claim that an engineer is anything but a scientist?

As for interpretations, these must be driven by data and supported by observable, repeatable, and verifiable facts.

And that's why science can never prove or disprove God's existence, because a sovereign, intelligent being residing outside our time/space continuum who has the ability to enter and leave it at will can never be repeated in a lab. You might as well expect an isolated, stoneage tribesman to repeat his encounter with the one and only time a helicopter flew over his head.

If we could repeat God's works at our command, He wouldn't really be God.

 

[Uncensored2008]

A scientist is one who follows a field-relevant scientific method to produce evidence and propose interpretations based on that data and statistical probabilities.

Then why would you ignorantly claim that an engineer is anything but a scientist?

As for interpretations, these must be driven by data and supported by observable, repeatable, and verifiable facts.

And that's why science can never prove or disprove God's existence, because a sovereign, intelligent being residing outside our time/space continuum who has the ability to enter and leave it at will can never be repeated in a lab. You might as well expect an isolated, stoneage tribesman to repeat his encounter with the one and only time a helicopter flew over his head.

If we could repeat God's works at our command, He wouldn't really be God.

Science is a process, a method. It is not a person, it is certainly not a religion. A scientist is anyone who uses the scientific method.

"Scientific method is an empirical method of knowledge acquisition, which has characterized the development of natural science since at least the 17th century, involving careful observation, which includes rigorous skepticism about what one observes, given that cognitive assumptions about how the world works influence how one interprets a percept; formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental testing and measurement of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. These are principles of the scientific method, as opposed to a definitive series of steps applicable to all scientific enterprises."

Science is a means of discovery in an organized and logical fashion.

 

[ding]

A scientist is one who follows a field-relevant scientific method to produce evidence and propose interpretations based on that data and statistical probabilities.

Then why would you ignorantly claim that an engineer is anything but a scientist?

As for interpretations, these must be driven by data and supported by observable, repeatable, and verifiable facts.

And that's why science can never prove or disprove God's existence, because a sovereign, intelligent being residing outside our time/space continuum who has the ability to enter and leave it at will can never be repeated in a lab. You might as well expect an isolated, stoneage tribesman to repeat his encounter with the one and only time a helicopter flew over his head.

If we could repeat God's works at our command, He wouldn't really be God.

Science is a process, a method. It is not a person, it is certainly not a religion. A scientist is anyone who uses the scientific method.

"Scientific method is an empirical method of knowledge acquisition, which has characterized the development of natural science since at least the 17th century, involving careful observation, which includes rigorous skepticism about what one observes, given that cognitive assumptions about how the world works influence how one interprets a percept; formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental testing and measurement of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. These are principles of the scientific method, as opposed to a definitive series of steps applicable to all scientific enterprises."

Science is a means of discovery in an organized and logical fashion.

Science is the study of nature to discover the order within nature so as to be able to make predictions about the order of nature. Which means that science can study everything after the creation of space and time. The only inference that science can provide about what happened before the beginning of space and time is that the creation of space and time followed rules and laws.

 

[Picaro]

There isn't anything to tax,

Whoah, you're way off!

- sales tax for purchase of services
- income/payroll tax for employees
- Property taxes
- limiting of deductions...no, the new LED Marquee and parking lot are NOT charity....

Rubbish. You don't know shit about taxes or churches, for that matter. I already pointed out they have to pay income taxes like everybody else if they get paid for their work, dumbass; you don't have a clue. And why should any np pay have to pay sales taxes? Most of their supplies are donated by businesses, and they don't have any big purchases on anything else, either, dumbass.

Why not whine about those sicko lobby non-proifts promoting 'normalizing' kiddie rape and other 'normal homosexuals 'freedom of choice' campaigns not paying any taxes on their lying advocacy of mindless self-indulgence and raping of children that is a major part of homosexual political activity as well, jackwad phoney?

 

[Picaro]

There isn't anything to tax,

Whoah, you're way off!

- sales tax for purchase of services
- income/payroll tax for employees
- Property taxes
- limiting of deductions...no, the new LED Marquee and parking lot are NOT charity....

One wonders if you throw this much of a hissy about other charities and non-profits having the gall to have lighted signs or parking lots without paying a shitload of taxes on these normal operating expenditures because they're "not charity", or if it's just churches that come in for your bile and vitriol.

These faggots never complain about their beloved pedophile front the ILGA being a non-profit, or any of the other advocacy fronts for the sickos.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There isn't anything to tax,

Whoah, you're way off!

- sales tax for purchase of services
- income/payroll tax for employees
- Property taxes
- limiting of deductions...no, the new LED Marquee and parking lot are NOT charity....

Rubbish. You don't know shit about taxes or churches, for that matter. I already pointed out they have to pay income taxes like everybody else if they get paid for their work, dumbass; you don't have a clue. And why should any np pay have to pay sales taxes? Most of their supplies are donated by businesses, and they don't have any big purchases on anything else, either, dumbass.

Why not whine about those sicko lobby non-proifts promoting 'normalizing' kiddie rape and other 'normal homosexuals 'freedom of choice' campaigns not paying any taxes on their lying advocacy of mindless self-indulgence and raping of children that is a major part of homosexual political activity as well, jackwad phoney?

Because he approves of THAT stuff. But religion? We can't be having with that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

People opposed to abortion should use every propaganda method at their disposal, just not legislative. Educate. If people learn, perhaps they'll agree with you. If they don't, they don't. Until then, the decision is the woman's.

I see, so prove that the unborn are or are not really human? How does one go about that I wonder? Shouldn't that have been done before murdering over 50 million since Roe vs Wade?

Or we can just believe in the Birth Fairy. You know the Birth Fairy, she waves her magic wand over the unborn child as it exists the womb, thus making it human.

Or you can just make your own decisions for yourself and stay the fuck out of other people's lives,Bible boy.

Spoken like a true Brown shirt.

Just mind your own business and ignore the injustice of others.

Sorry you crybaby little religious nutball, I don't subscribe to your little magical fetishes about what injustice is.

Yes, destroy the unborn and white man!

Racism/ageism, is what being a Progressive is all about.

Locking up innocent Japanese Americans is good too.

Thanks FDR.

Well that was bunch of irrelevant whining.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are those mean old Christians bothering you again? How dare they write their thoughts where you can see them!

My post clearly distinguished between whiny little bitch rants like yours and actually forcing people to behave a certain way. Please pay attention.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I already pointed out they have to pay income taxes like everybody else if they get paid for their work, dumbass

100% Wrong. Generally, clergy do not pay federal income taxes. I ignored the rest, as you are clearly just pulling things out of your ass. You should probably just shut up now.

 

[BreezeWood]

So if you are a Progressive, how can the DNC overcome the church?

- with a surge of fresh new candidates and an outpouring of voter enthusiasm ...


back to the thread topic ....

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Democrats took back the House with a surge of fresh new candidates and an outpouring of voter enthusiasm Tuesday, breaking the GOP's monopoly on power in Washington and setting the stage for a multitude of investigations of President Donald Trump that could engulf his administration over the next two years.

nancy pelosi will probably have something to say about that ... for the democrats.

 

[Picaro]

I already pointed out they have to pay income taxes like everybody else if they get paid for their work, dumbass

100% Wrong. Generally, clergy do not pay federal income taxes. I ignored the rest, as you are clearly just pulling things out of your ass. You should probably just shut up now.

So repeating Stupid Lies is your response ... now we know for sure you don't have a clue, troll. Any child can google that info, dumbass. Go smoke some more meth and post, since you only make yourself look even more insane.

 

[Avatar4321]

Babies are killed because God gives us our agency and evil men and women kill children.

And sometimes animals and viruses and bacteria and accidents and genetic defects (i.e., poor design) kill them. Man, you sure didn't think this though very well.

But it is quite amazing that you know the will and plan of god. You're truly a shaman for the ages . Or, more likely, you carefully contrived a narrative that preserves your image of what a god should be, then stated it without really thinking it through.

We are supposed to die. That’s the entire point of the plan