Democrats have moved farther and farther to the right

[kaz]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Your examples are all either things Democrats want and can't get or things where their positions didn't change, neither of those support they are moving to the right. You are a silly little man, both parties are moving to the left. An outright socialist is taking Hillary to the wire and winning State after State

Ok then pick a specific point from the OP and lets compare liberal versus conservative.

And again, everytime the Democrats debate Hillary runs away from universal single payer

Corporate welfare. Both parties are and always were owned by corporations, that isn't the Democrats moving to the right.

And you're right about that, but you're lying, you don't believe it. Sadly. If you actually did believe it, you would stop advocating more and more government. Think about it ...

 

[kaz]

I love how everytime I make this argument it pisses off liberals and conservatives alike.

You take yourself too seriously

Again, lets pick specific points to refute.

I forgot immigration, amnesty was originally a Ronald Reagan policy (Reagan being the GOD of the GoP) and now what are all democrats saying? democrats have taken Reagans amnesty position

You think amnesty for illegal aliens is conservative? You're very confused, no wonder you can't tell right from left

 

[Nicholas_1982]

If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.

Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.

The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.

So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.

Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law

Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.

Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.

Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?

 

[jasonnfree]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Funny, I thought the Dems sucked up a lot of pro-corp center right/left guys like myself.

Yes the democratic establishment has very much moved to the center right. I like to call them Bluedogs

On economic issues, you're right on. It takes an Obama or bill clinton joining with republicans to ramrod these crappy trade deals thru that benefit corporations, but hurt the American worker. Not sure about Obama's social issues like importing the third world's poor and needy here, while we're not even able to solve our own existing poverty issues as it is. Sounds like left wing social engineering to me, but then the flood of poverty stricken and poor from the third world does guarantee low wages for decades to come.

 

[Nicholas_1982]

I love how everytime I make this argument it pisses off liberals and conservatives alike.

You take yourself too seriously

Again, lets pick specific points to refute.

I forgot immigration, amnesty was originally a Ronald Reagan policy (Reagan being the GOD of the GoP) and now what are all democrats saying? democrats have taken Reagans amnesty position

You think amnesty for illegal aliens is conservative? You're very confused, no wonder you can't tell right from left

so now you are calling Reagan a liberal? when he passed an amnesty law. I think ANY republican would disagree that Reagan was a closet left winger

 

[Iceweasel]

Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.

Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?

Because they aren't as stupid as you and know it won't fly right now.

 

[Stephanie]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Bullshit.

Dole is an extremely liberal Republican, and Obama not doing something he wants to do because of other political goals or legal opposition is not evidence of "moving to the right".

You have absolutely no understanding of the political spectrum.

So the ACA is a moderate republican policy? is that what you are saying? Ok I agree. what about the rest of the list

1) That cannard again? Romney proposed only the penalty, Obamacare is a whole program, it's not just the tax penalty

2) Romney proposed it at the State level. While being a terrible idea, States are not prohibited from enacting health care like the Federal government is in the 10th amendment

another person who believes they're slick. comes on demanding his points be refuted and claims you said that the ACA is a moderate Republican policy

 

[Nicholas_1982]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Funny, I thought the Dems sucked up a lot of pro-corp center right/left guys like myself.

Yes the democratic establishment has very much moved to the center right. I like to call them Bluedogs

On economic issues, you're right on. It takes an Obama or bill clinton joining with republicans to ramrod these crappy trade deals thru that benefit corporations, but hurt the American worker. Not sure about Obama's social issues like importing the third world's poor and needy here. while we're not even able to solve our own existing poverty issues as it is. Sounds like left wing social engineering to me, but then the flood of poverty stricken and poor from the third world does guarantee low wages for decades to come.

This is clearly a republican issue. who hates unions and loves low wage workers? Of course republicans want undocumented laborers in the US.

 

[eagle1462010]

If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.

Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.

The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.

So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.

Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law

Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.

Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.

Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?

You need a reality check................Conservatives like myself didn't want Romney...................my main reason being Romneycare...............how the hell are you gonna fight the ACA by putting up someone who did the same damned thing.................

And he LOST..............just like the RINO McCain LOST................

The establishment pushed those candidates...............not the base............

If you haven't noticed groups like the TEA Party have been looking for LESS GOVERNMENT...........NOT MORE............

You need a Reality check.

 

[Iceweasel]

I love how everytime I make this argument it pisses off liberals and conservatives alike.

You take yourself too seriously

Again, lets pick specific points to refute.

I forgot immigration, amnesty was originally a Ronald Reagan policy (Reagan being the GOD of the GoP) and now what are all democrats saying? democrats have taken Reagans amnesty position

You think amnesty for illegal aliens is conservative? You're very confused, no wonder you can't tell right from left

so now you are calling Reagan a liberal? when he passed an amnesty law. I think ANY republican would disagree that Reagan was a closet left winger

He regretted it BECAUSE the other part of it was tough borders and penalties, which we did not get.

How many failures do you want to rack up?

 

[Nicholas_1982]

Again, go to the link from Bob Dole's 1996 healthcare platform. These were republican frontrunner positions 12 years BEFORE Obama became president

 

[kaz]

Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.

Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy

Obama didn't have that option, he took as much government as he could get. Show one thing he could have gotten more government and he turned it down. I look forward to cricks from you on this

instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state

That canard again. I already addressed it. Romney proposed a tax penalty, to say he proposed Obamacare is ridiculous

Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?

Begging the question. They didn't. Back up where they could get full single payer. Obviously you can't

 

[Iceweasel]

This is clearly a republican issue. who hates unions and loves low wage workers? Of course republicans want undocumented laborers in the US.

Go ahead and back it up. So far you're all air.

 

[kaz]

I love how everytime I make this argument it pisses off liberals and conservatives alike.

You take yourself too seriously

Again, lets pick specific points to refute.

I forgot immigration, amnesty was originally a Ronald Reagan policy (Reagan being the GOD of the GoP) and now what are all democrats saying? democrats have taken Reagans amnesty position

You think amnesty for illegal aliens is conservative? You're very confused, no wonder you can't tell right from left

so now you are calling Reagan a liberal? when he passed an amnesty law. I think ANY republican would disagree that Reagan was a closet left winger

Strawman, I called amnesty for illegal aliens liberal

 

[Weatherman2020]

This is clearly a republican issue. who hates unions and loves low wage workers?

The party that covets illegal aliens coming in to take American jobs.

 

[ptbw forever]

Must be a typo in the title. Dems are so far Left the Communist Party no longer needs to run their own candidate. They endorsed Obama and now they're for Sanders

The OP seems to forget that if Democrats use to be universally for single-payer healthcare and the typical socialist platform it would have been law over 40 years ago with decades upon decades of straight Democrat control of the federal government.

In reality the Republican establishment moved to the left on immigration decades ago(and Democrats went moonbat shit crazy)and has been slowly moving to the left on every other issue since Bush Sr. was president.

 

[Nicholas_1982]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Bullshit.

Dole is an extremely liberal Republican, and Obama not doing something he wants to do because of other political goals or legal opposition is not evidence of "moving to the right".

You have absolutely no understanding of the political spectrum.

So the ACA is a moderate republican policy? is that what you are saying? Ok I agree. what about the rest of the list

1) That cannard again? Romney proposed only the penalty, Obamacare is a whole program, it's not just the tax penalty

2) Romney proposed it at the State level. While being a terrible idea, States are not prohibited from enacting health care like the Federal government is in the 10th amendment

another person who believes they're slick. comes on demanding his points be refuted and claims you said that the ACA is a moderate Republican policy

If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.

Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.

The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.

So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.

Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law

Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.

Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.

Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?

You need a reality check................Conservatives like myself didn't want Romney...................my main reason being Romneycare...............how the hell are you gonna fight the ACA by putting up someone who did the same damned thing.................

And he LOST..............just like the RINO McCain LOST................

The establishment pushed those candidates...............not the base............

If you haven't noticed groups like the TEA Party have been looking for LESS GOVERNMENT...........NOT MORE............

You need a Reality check.

so when a republican endorses a policy and then years later a democrat adopts that policy. instead of the democrat moving to the right you claim the republican was a tool?

again, where is single payer? Hillary doesn't want it

 

[jasonnfree]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Funny, I thought the Dems sucked up a lot of pro-corp center right/left guys like myself.

Yes the democratic establishment has very much moved to the center right. I like to call them Bluedogs

On economic issues, you're right on. It takes an Obama or bill clinton joining with republicans to ramrod these crappy trade deals thru that benefit corporations, but hurt the American worker. Not sure about Obama's social issues like importing the third world's poor and needy here. while we're not even able to solve our own existing poverty issues as it is. Sounds like left wing social engineering to me, but then the flood of poverty stricken and poor from the third world does guarantee low wages for decades to come.

This is clearly a republican issue. who hates unions and loves low wage workers? Of course republicans want undocumented laborers in the US.

True. I remember when Obama abandoned single payer right after the election, and put blue dogs like senator max baucus and his friends from the health care companies in charge of the health care reform.

 

[Nicholas_1982]

This is clearly a republican issue. who hates unions and loves low wage workers?

The party that covets illegal aliens coming in to take American jobs.

Ok which party has always hated unions and doesn't believe in a minimum wage

 

[kaz]

I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.

Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.

I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.

In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.

Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.

The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.

Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care

There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.

Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.

The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.

The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.

1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.

2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.

The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.

1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.

2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.

The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA

Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall

Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.

Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.

Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf

of course there are more and more examples:

1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.

So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit

Bullshit.

Dole is an extremely liberal Republican, and Obama not doing something he wants to do because of other political goals or legal opposition is not evidence of "moving to the right".

You have absolutely no understanding of the political spectrum.

So the ACA is a moderate republican policy? is that what you are saying? Ok I agree. what about the rest of the list

1) That cannard again? Romney proposed only the penalty, Obamacare is a whole program, it's not just the tax penalty

2) Romney proposed it at the State level. While being a terrible idea, States are not prohibited from enacting health care like the Federal government is in the 10th amendment

another person who believes they're slick. comes on demanding his points be refuted and claims you said that the ACA is a moderate Republican policy

If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.

You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.

Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.

The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.

So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.

Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law

Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.

Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.

Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?

You need a reality check................Conservatives like myself didn't want Romney...................my main reason being Romneycare...............how the hell are you gonna fight the ACA by putting up someone who did the same damned thing.................

And he LOST..............just like the RINO McCain LOST................

The establishment pushed those candidates...............not the base............

If you haven't noticed groups like the TEA Party have been looking for LESS GOVERNMENT...........NOT MORE............

You need a Reality check.

so when a republican endorses a policy and then years later a democrat adopts that policy. instead of the democrat moving to the right you claim the republican was a tool?

Democrats were always behind amnesty, what are you talking about? Reagan wanted hurdles to citizenship, Democrats wanted free amnesty. Who writes your material?

again, where is single payer? Hillary doesn't want it

Hillary doesn't want to run on it, not the same thing. She's also owned by corporations