Dems: Republicans must replace Obamacare if they want to repeal it

Oh, I can't wait for them to repeal O-care before the have something to put immediately in its place. In fact, politically speaking, I want Congress and Trump to do just that.
Political suicide! Do it!!
If you look at the beating that the dems just took, I think you might see that putting the ACA in place was political suicide for them. Without the ACA being forced on people, I think the dems would have controlled Congress, Senate and the oval office come January 21

Problem is that requiring coverage of pre- existing conditions and mandatory coverage are a package deal

Republicans are finding that out

Don't think I'm outright differing with you. I see the thrust of your position on the matter, and basically I agree with it. But....yes, there's a "but"...But those two features are only problems to people who aren't about finding solutions.

Requiring coverage of pre-existing conditions should never have been necessary, but the insurance industry ages and ages ago figured out, not surprisingly, that people who don't have historic/chronic ailments don't cost must to insure, and the way to minimize the risk that you will have to cover a person with chronic ailments is to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. For the most part, people who haven't developed something chronic by the time they are ~25 aren't going to for some decades to go. Of course there are exceptions, and if you sum all the people who are the exceptions, yes, it seems like a lot of people, but in reality, if you are an insurer, you aren't going to get proportionally and materially more of them of them than any comparable insurer, unless you structure your policies and pricing so you do. (All the numbers are what actuaries and actuarial economists/accountants figure out for insurers. They don't disclose their figures on that, at least the "big boys" don't.)

Mandatory coverage is nothing more than the result of insurers and the government's actuaries realizing that for insurers to make money and for consumers to afford the premium cost given that elected officials (and the insured) want to have pre-existing conditions covered, literally everyone has to be covered so that the risks and costs associated with covering people with chronic ailments are spread out enough that the premium can be made affordable.

Of course, the insurers making money is a matter of greed to some extent. But, microeconomically speaking, the provision of health insurance has much in common with natural monopolies. Yes, there's room for multiple competitors, but were there just one natural monopolist providing the coverage to everyone, prices could be reduced "uber" dramatically in much the same way things like water from the water company is far less expensive than is bottled water. At some point, however, it becomes uneconomic for there to be multiple providers of healthcare in a given "area." (One can define "area" geographically if you want, but it could just as easily be defined in terms of any or several other sui generis classe(s).)

The highly enlightened recognition that healthcare insurance has much in common with natural monopolies is why "single payer/provider" is appealing. Of course, having a single provider for any given "area" presents its own set of dilemmas that, quite frankly, Republicans don't like dealing with because to do so forces them to do things they claim to hate doing. For example, if one is to have a single payer, one pretty much has to regulate the profits that payer can earn. Were you not to do that, you'd have exactly what we see now in places that have only one insurer on an O-care exchange: super high prices being charged.

Trump's idea of allowing interstate competition seems to resolve that problem, but it doesn't really because it just makes the issue discussed a couple paragraphs above be an interstate one instead of a state by state one. Sooner or later, it will lead to industry consolidation and oligopoly in the industry. Who wins in that scenario? The huge insurance companies, which wouldn't be so bad except for their being the very organizations that literally control everything that banks, Warren Buffett, Microsoft and the federal government don't. (This is why Trump wanted to be president; he's not a major player in, and had no way to control, any of the other groups. Plus, the government is the single biggest one.) Health insurance is pretty close to having a "kinked" demand curve already. Interstate competition would pretty well guarantee that it absolutely does.

Another dilemma for Republicans is that if they convert healthcare to single payer, they have to conjure some sort of bizarre "thing" that doesn't drive all but one insurer out of business, or drive all but one insurer out of business. I don't need to go into the economics of that; the politics of it are enough and easily seen.

From reading the above - it's not at all the most detailed exposition of the matter you can find, but it should be enough to give you a general sense of things - it should be clear that the problem is the politics. Republicans stand on positions of "no more regulation," "what's good for business is good for America," "less government is better than more government," and so on...You know the mantra. But you can't stand on those positions and "do right" by the average earning American, and make sure that "everybody" has healthcare that they can afford to pay for (be it via taxes or directly out of pocket). At least one of those stances has to be forsaken. Yet the GOP have all the power, which means they have to come up with something that actually works, and works better than O-care.

What's all that mean for the American people? Anywhere from one to four years of crazy spin on every sort of compromise solution you think of because every damn one of those fuckers in the Capitol is too chickeshit to bite the bullet and take the political hit in the interest of the American people.
 
Oh, I can't wait for them to repeal O-care before the have something to put immediately in its place. In fact, politically speaking, I want Congress and Trump to do just that.
Political suicide! Do it!!
If you look at the beating that the dems just took, I think you might see that putting the ACA in place was political suicide for them. Without the ACA being forced on people, I think the dems would have controlled Congress, Senate and the oval office come January 21

You don't know that so don't pretend that you do. There were many forces at work .


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And you dont know that getting rid of it will be suicide for the republicans, do you.
maybe if you didnt pretend to know something in the first place, others wouldnt have to use the same tactics to disprove you.
The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country, it makes no sense for so many people to suddenly be priced out of the insurance market just to give free or low cost coverage to 20 million people that failed to show personal responsibility. And on top of that to force people that dont want it in the first place? How about we force people without cars to purchase auto insurance to help offset the cost of insurance to those that do have cars.
The ACA is communist bullshit that does not belong in a free society.

The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country

So what? The majority of the country doesn't use it anyway. There are only 20M people enrolled under an ACA plan. The U.S. population is some 320M+ people. It's just that 20M+ people is too damn many people to fuck over.
 
Oh, I can't wait for them to repeal O-care before the have something to put immediately in its place. In fact, politically speaking, I want Congress and Trump to do just that.
they dont have to repeal it. they just have to make it work like the democrats said it would work.
Remember how it was going to be cheaper? it was going to save billions of dollars? it would be self sustaining?
If those promises by the democrats are true, then there is no need to put fees on other insurance options to help cover it, there is no need to raise taxes on anything to help cover it, and there is no need to ask for money from congress to cover it. Basically, let it stay but just dont make it mandatory, they can make insurance mandatory, but it does not matter if you use the ACA or any other means to insure. and no funding from the taxpayer to support it.
Who knows, it might become a business model for those companies that have been in the health insurance industry for years.
Please explain in detail the economics of a system that the young and healthy did not have to pay into but where the insures were required to cover the sick and elderly? How would the auto insurance industry do if good drivers who never had accidents were not required to have insurance, but could quickly get a policy that would cover that accident when they have it. THINK for gods sake!!
I dont think we are on the same page.
the insurance industry should not have to cover anyone that does not pay. Its very simple. Medicare would have been paid for through paycheck deductions throughout someones career, so thats already there, coverage.
But lets look at the auto insurance industry, the more their exposure is, based on the value of your vehicle, the more you pay, you pay more if you have had tickets, or accidents, God forbid you had a DUI and have to pay for insurance. What would happen to the auto industry if they could not take into account a drivers history or value of the car, or even the number of claims in a specific area? (you do know they look at demographics to right?) Lets say that you make more money than I do but because you are responsible with your bills and putting away for your future, you drive a nice car, but average, lets say a Lexus, I on the other hand make much less than you, I am not known as being responsible and instead of saving for my future I use that money to pay for a new Corvette at 100k purchase price, I have had 5 speeding tickets and Im on my 2nd DUI. When our bills come in, you find out you are paying twice as much for the premium than I do and your deductable is 500 compared to my 150.
Would that seem fair to you?
Everyone pays thru a combination of premiums and subsidies. I didn't say that every one should pay the same regardless of level of coverage or risk. I said that it should be affordable. You're avoiding that question that I posed about mandatory coverage.
 
Whatever happened to idea that a little freedom might be a good idea?

If by "little freedom" you what we had bore ACA, well lets see:

High uninsured rates.
High healthcare costs growth with mediocre healthcare outcomes
Crap insurance policies with pages and pages of fine print that didn't actually cover people when sht hit the fan.

Do we need to go on and on?
Crap insurance that doesn't cover anything is exactly what Medicare/Medicaid is.
 
Oh, I can't wait for them to repeal O-care before the have something to put immediately in its place. In fact, politically speaking, I want Congress and Trump to do just that.
Political suicide! Do it!!
If you look at the beating that the dems just took, I think you might see that putting the ACA in place was political suicide for them. Without the ACA being forced on people, I think the dems would have controlled Congress, Senate and the oval office come January 21

You don't know that so don't pretend that you do. There were many forces at work .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And you dont know that getting rid of it will be suicide for the republicans, do you.
maybe if you didnt pretend to know something in the first place, others wouldnt have to use the same tactics to disprove you.
The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country, it makes no sense for so many people to suddenly be priced out of the insurance market just to give free or low cost coverage to 20 million people that failed to show personal responsibility. And on top of that to force people that dont want it in the first place? How about we force people without cars to purchase auto insurance to help offset the cost of insurance to those that do have cars.
The ACA is communist bullshit that does not belong in a free society.

The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country

So what? The majority of the country doesn't use it anyway. There are only 20M people enrolled under an ACA plan. The U.S. population is some 320M+ people. It's just that 20M+ people is too damn many people to fuck over.
Actually it's less than 20 million
 
Oh, I can't wait for them to repeal O-care before the have something to put immediately in its place. In fact, politically speaking, I want Congress and Trump to do just that.
Political suicide! Do it!!
If you look at the beating that the dems just took, I think you might see that putting the ACA in place was political suicide for them. Without the ACA being forced on people, I think the dems would have controlled Congress, Senate and the oval office come January 21

You don't know that so don't pretend that you do. There were many forces at work .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And you dont know that getting rid of it will be suicide for the republicans, do you.
maybe if you didnt pretend to know something in the first place, others wouldnt have to use the same tactics to disprove you.
The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country, it makes no sense for so many people to suddenly be priced out of the insurance market just to give free or low cost coverage to 20 million people that failed to show personal responsibility. And on top of that to force people that dont want it in the first place? How about we force people without cars to purchase auto insurance to help offset the cost of insurance to those that do have cars.
The ACA is communist bullshit that does not belong in a free society.
You don't really know any of that-do you? Show me how "the majority of the country" is adversely effected by the ACA. Show me how more people were priced out than people who gained coverage. None gets free coverage except the very low income through Medicaid and Medicare through tax dollars and if they did not have coverage, YOU STILL PAY in many ways. THINK about it. Personal responsibility is to have coverage before you need it! No we can't force people without cars to have auto insurance -that is just a non sequitur, so stop it. Communist bullshit? Do you even understand what Communism is? Don't think so.
 
Whatever happened to idea that a little freedom might be a good idea?

If by "little freedom" you what we had bore ACA, well lets see:

High uninsured rates.
High healthcare costs growth with mediocre healthcare outcomes
Crap insurance policies with pages and pages of fine print that didn't actually cover people when sht hit the fan.

Do we need to go on and on?
Crap insurance that doesn't cover anything is exactly what Medicare/Medicaid is.

Really? Are you on one of those programs?


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Lot of people are saying please take it.....a lot are paying the fine because the product is so bad

Young people under 26 who can't be covered on their parents policy
What about it...they have a yr to find something else......I paid my own health insurance at that age
I got a job with health insurance at 21

Why don't employers do that anymore?

They do.
No they don't. Especially with new hires
Employers want out of the health insurance business. Time for government to fill the void......don't you agree?
Yes employers still offer insurance. They even pay half of family plans or all of a plan for employee only coverage.

Do you live in a cave or something?
 
Political suicide! Do it!!
If you look at the beating that the dems just took, I think you might see that putting the ACA in place was political suicide for them. Without the ACA being forced on people, I think the dems would have controlled Congress, Senate and the oval office come January 21

You don't know that so don't pretend that you do. There were many forces at work .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And you dont know that getting rid of it will be suicide for the republicans, do you.
maybe if you didnt pretend to know something in the first place, others wouldnt have to use the same tactics to disprove you.
The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country, it makes no sense for so many people to suddenly be priced out of the insurance market just to give free or low cost coverage to 20 million people that failed to show personal responsibility. And on top of that to force people that dont want it in the first place? How about we force people without cars to purchase auto insurance to help offset the cost of insurance to those that do have cars.
The ACA is communist bullshit that does not belong in a free society.

The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country

So what? The majority of the country doesn't use it anyway. There are only 20M people enrolled under an ACA plan. The U.S. population is some 320M+ people. It's just that 20M+ people is too damn many people to fuck over.
Actually it's less than 20 million

Okay. I've seen 16M, 18M and 23M also cited. Don't you think the difference is kinda immaterial? If you average the three you get 19M. Would that make you feel better?
 
Are Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell gonna continue to be milquetoast pussies? Or are they finally gonna grow a pair? The Democrats aren't calling the shots. Time to get things done Ryan and McConnell.
 
If you look at the beating that the dems just took, I think you might see that putting the ACA in place was political suicide for them. Without the ACA being forced on people, I think the dems would have controlled Congress, Senate and the oval office come January 21

You don't know that so don't pretend that you do. There were many forces at work .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And you dont know that getting rid of it will be suicide for the republicans, do you.
maybe if you didnt pretend to know something in the first place, others wouldnt have to use the same tactics to disprove you.
The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country, it makes no sense for so many people to suddenly be priced out of the insurance market just to give free or low cost coverage to 20 million people that failed to show personal responsibility. And on top of that to force people that dont want it in the first place? How about we force people without cars to purchase auto insurance to help offset the cost of insurance to those that do have cars.
The ACA is communist bullshit that does not belong in a free society.

The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country

So what? The majority of the country doesn't use it anyway. There are only 20M people enrolled under an ACA plan. The U.S. population is some 320M+ people. It's just that 20M+ people is too damn many people to fuck over.
Actually it's less than 20 million

Okay. I've seen 16M, 18M and 23M also cited. Don't you think the difference is kinda immaterial? If you average the three you get 19M. Would that make you feel better?
13.8 million was the prediction by the Obama Admin for 2017. It has not met that quota.

Obamacare 2017 enrollment hits record, despite Trump's threat to repeal
 
You don't know that so don't pretend that you do. There were many forces at work .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And you dont know that getting rid of it will be suicide for the republicans, do you.
maybe if you didnt pretend to know something in the first place, others wouldnt have to use the same tactics to disprove you.
The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country, it makes no sense for so many people to suddenly be priced out of the insurance market just to give free or low cost coverage to 20 million people that failed to show personal responsibility. And on top of that to force people that dont want it in the first place? How about we force people without cars to purchase auto insurance to help offset the cost of insurance to those that do have cars.
The ACA is communist bullshit that does not belong in a free society.

The reality is that the ACA is not good for the majority of the country

So what? The majority of the country doesn't use it anyway. There are only 20M people enrolled under an ACA plan. The U.S. population is some 320M+ people. It's just that 20M+ people is too damn many people to fuck over.
Actually it's less than 20 million

Okay. I've seen 16M, 18M and 23M also cited. Don't you think the difference is kinda immaterial? If you average the three you get 19M. Would that make you feel better?
13.8 million was the prediction by the Obama Admin for 2017. It has not met that quota.

Obamacare 2017 enrollment hits record, despite Trump's threat to repeal

So I have seen the March 2016 figures released by HHS.
We estimate that the provisions of the ACA have resulted in gains in health insurance coverage for 20.0 million nonelderly adults (ages 18 to 64). This estimate comprises 17.7 million nonelderly adults who gained coverage due to the coverage expansions that began in the fourth quarter of 2013 and 2.3 million young adults (ages 19 to 25) who gained coverage between 2010 and 2013 due to the ACA’s provision allowing young adults to stay on a parents’ plan until the age of 26. In total, 6.1 million previously uninsured young adults have gained coverage due to the ACA. This is especially important because this population were particularly likely to be uninsured prior to the enactment of the ACA
It may well be that your figure is actual exchange customers. I wrote "enrolled under an ACA plan" and I see the ambiguity of that phrasing. That could well explain the discrepancy. Just looking roughly at the figures you and I both have shared, 14+6+2 = 22 which though not 20, it strikes me as "close enough" that distinctions such as those found in the verbiage of your article and my report may plausibly be the cause for the delta. Do you agree?
 
Trump voters don’t think ‘smart businessman’ like Trump will really enact GOP’s health care plans
It seems that some people who voted for Donald Trump don’t like the health care plans that Trump’s party has actually proposed — but they also don’t believe the GOP will really enact them.

The New York Times reports that the Kaiser Foundation recently organized several focus groups with Rust Belt Trump voters who were either covered by Medicaid, or who got their insurance policies through Obamacare exchanges.

It seems like these Trump voters are afraid that have shot themselves in the foot!! Buyers remorse sets in!!
 
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Problem is that requiring coverage of pre- existing conditions and mandatory coverage are a package deal
And even then, the deal is much too expensive. Democrats found that out on Nov. 8.

In fact, a deal that includes coverage of pre-existing conditions isn't insurance at all. It's a medical-payment plan. The two are almost exact opposites.

And with medical costs in the thousands, or hundreds of thousands, a company that sells a policy that GUARANTEES they will have to pay out that much, has to sell it for a lot of money. They'll have to or they'll run out of money. And no amount of liberal snarling "They're greedy and heartless and I'm sure they can afford it" will change that fact.

The liberals are trying to sell such insanely expensive policies, and trying to disguise how much people will have to pay. But their disguises stopped working when people started getting the bill, and they got voted out of every majority in the country on Nov. 8.

Elections have consequences.

And trying to force people into hugely expensive policies that no one wants to pay for, has consequences too. Often seen during elections.
 
That's been the mantra, coming from both Democrats and Republicans, for years now.

But just having people saying that, is a major victory for the socialist Democrats. Now they've got nearly everybody insisting that only a Government plan could save the failed Government plan of Obamacare.

When was it decided that only a government plan could work?

Whatever happened to idea that a little freedom might be a good idea?

The Democrats seem very sure that letting people make their own decision about what medical insurance, and/or medical payment plans they would buy, was a terrible idea. And that letting insurance companies design a large variety of insurance plans for people to choose from, was a BAD thing. And every bit of legislation they rammed through, reduced that freedom, while kicking people off the medical plans they had previously selected, destroying the relationship with the doctor of their choice, increasing costs, and reducing choices.

Democrats and RINOs need to think seriously about whether they want to replace the Democrats' plan for destroying our freedom, with a "different" Republican plan for destroying our freedom.

Here's a novel idea: Why not let insurance companies design all the plans they want, ranging from expensive Cadillac plans to inexpensive catastrophic-only plans, with everything in between, and market them to everybody they want no matter where they are. And then let people choose what they want, from any insurance company in the country.

There could also be two major kinds:
(a) Insurance, that pays for needs incurred after the contract was signed, and
(b) Medical payment plans, which cover everything insurance does, PLUS pre-existing conditions.

Each would be priced according to whatever it takes to avoid losses, of course. And then different people could choose the different plans they want.

Freedom. What a novel concept. And clearly one that has never occurred to the desperate liberals fanatics, on both sides of the aisle.

Employers have no responsibility to pay for peoples healthcare and to argue other wise is communism. (sarcasm)
 
Problem is that requiring coverage of pre- existing conditions and mandatory coverage are a package deal
BTW, the Supreme Court said flatly that forcing people to buy something (by penalizing them if they don't) is completely unconstitutional.

The Court then grossly exceeded their authority by re-writing the Obamacare law from the bench. Then they did NOT send it back to Congress for re-approval in its modified form, but simply declared that it was now constitutional.

People remember these things, when election time comes around.
 
Problem is that requiring coverage of pre- existing conditions and mandatory coverage are a package deal
BTW, the Supreme Court said flatly that forcing people to buy something (by penalizing them if they don't) is completely unconstitutional.

The Court then grossly exceeded their authority by re-writing the Obamacare law from the bench. Then they did NOT send it back to Congress for re-approval in its modified form, but simply declared that it was now constitutional.

People remember these things, when election time comes around.
I don't think the constitution and Obamacare was much of an issue for the 120K or so folks in Pa, Mich and Wisc who flipped it despite the pop vote. If it was, Hillary should have lost in other places as well.

However, for those people who were staring at increased premiums and high deductables, Obamacare didn't do much for them ... even if subsidies paid most of the freight. The only benefit they received was wellness checkups that didn't require them to meet deductables first.

The poor and the very rich did well under Obama. Hillary was a crook and she tried to run on that record. It's amazing the gop didn't do better. Looking at the governorships and senate, they should have won the pop vote by 2% at least. LOL
 

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