DeVos to make getting away with campus rape easy again

[theHawk]

Betsy DeVos Plans to Weaken Obama’s Campus Sexual Assault Rules

The Department of Education announced on Thursday that it will weaken a set of requirements for how colleges and universities are expected to handle cases of sexual assault on college campuses. In a speech at George Mason University in Virginia, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos criticized a set of rules that the department hadissued in 2011 that, under Title IX, forced colleges to conduct their own investigations and stated police reports cannot be used to determine whether a violation occurred, because a criminal case requires stronger evidence.

The Department of Education will take comments from the public before issuing new guidelines, though DeVos’ remarks suggest that the new standard will likely to be a significant departure from the Obama-era rules. DeVos called the current process for handling sexual misconduct “shameful,” a “failed system,” and “wholly unAmerican.”

“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students,” DeVos said. “Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved.” Critics of the Obama-era rule have argued that it does not offer adequate due process for the students accused of sexual misconduct. Under the directive, institutions of higher education use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, which requires a 51 percent certainty in determining guilt. Sexual violence is often difficult to prove to a higher certainty, and false accusations are extremely rare. But in July, DeVos’ deputy in charge of civil rights suggested that 90 percent of sexual assault allegations at colleges are false.

I predict that testimony from experts in sexual assault investigation and prosecution, you know, police and prosecutors… will be ignored. Don't bother bringing stats or data…that's elitist.


She "believes" in her gut that 90% of allegations are false… so it must be. Because we trust the gut over any thorough and thoughtful analysis and research any day of the week and twice on Sundays… That's the alternative fact America we live in. It doesn't matter what any so-called "expert" tells her… I mean, she's never been raped, so it probably never happens…

Oh my, imagine that....criminal cases should be handled by police, not amateur school staff.

The rule of law is clearly something that makes liberals wring their hands and gnash their teeth over. Ever wonder why that is?

 

[JoeB131]

As has been noted already, rape is an unusually difficult crime to investigate and prosecute. It is often difficult to establish sufficient evidence to meet the necessary burden of proof to criminally convict one of that crime.

Your “solution” to the problem is to give the authority to prosecute this crime to those who are far less qualified to do so than the police and judicial system that have the legitimate authority to do so; and to allow the prosecution to be done by a much lower standard, which allows an unacceptable risk of innocents being punished for crimes that they did not commit.

You see, the thing here is you keep using the words "prosecution" and "Punish" and such. But they university can't prosecute or Punish anyone.

All they can do is revoke a privilege of attending their college. Lower level of penalty, lower level of proof. As it should be.

You see, before you put someone in jail, "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" should be the standard.

But to get a potentially dangerous guy off your campus, "Pretty sure' is a good enough standard. It kind of has to be, because once a university knows they have a problem, and they don't address it, they are liable.

NOw, you Wingnuts remember old Ken Starr, right? You know the guy who spent 70 million dollars proving Bill Clinton got a blow job from a willing intern? Well, he went on to run Baylor University.... and guess what happened next?

Baylor sex assault scandal: Everything you need to know to understand what happened | Baylor | Dallas News

Baylor regents have said that at least 19 football players have been accused of sexual or physical assault, including four alleged gang rapes, since 2011. They based that estimate on news reports, lawsuits and the Pepper Hamilton investigation, which was not comprehensive, their attorney said.

But an explosive lawsuit filed in January alleged that the number was far higher. Based on investigation by lawyers, the suit claimed that 31 Baylor football players committed at least 52 acts of rape, including five gang rapes, between 2011 and 2014.

and what was the end result of this University waiting for the LEGAL system to take care of these guys?

At least 14 survivors of sexual or physical assault have sued the university.

Baylor is under investigation by the NCAA and the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights. The Big 12 voted to withhold revenue from Baylor until changes are made.

So um yeah, the cost of doing nothing is 1) Students stop going to your school, 2) Alumni stop contributing, 3) student sue your ass for doing nothing and 4) Organizations like the Big 12 cut funding.

But don't worry, kids, Betsy de Stupid is going to stop the government from doing their job! That'll fix everything. Until Trump gets impeached and she's out on her ass. Or another big rape scandal happens and someone asks "Why didn't the government employ Title IX like they were supposed to?"

 

[JoeB131]

Oh my, imagine that....criminal cases should be handled by police, not amateur school staff.

The rule of law is clearly something that makes liberals wring their hands and gnash their teeth over. Ever wonder why that is?

Because law enforcement sucks at it?

Hey, let's imagine that your hypothetical daughter is a coed attending Baylor University, and she gets invited to a party by Biff and his friends. Are you really going to wait for the police to handle it? Because they did nothing at Baylor for about six years.

 

[theHawk]

Oh my, imagine that....criminal cases should be handled by police, not amateur school staff.

The rule of law is clearly something that makes liberals wring their hands and gnash their teeth over. Ever wonder why that is?

Because law enforcement sucks at it?

Hey, let's imagine that your hypothetical daughter is a coed attending Baylor University, and she gets invited to a party by Biff and his friends. Are you really going to wait for the police to handle it? Because they did nothing at Baylor for about six years.

If there is a problem with the law enforcement, then address that issue and fix it. Having a bunch of school administrators play judge, jury, and executioner isn't the answer.

 

[JoeB131]

If there is a problem with the law enforcement, then address that issue and fix it. Having a bunch of school administrators play judge, jury, and executioner isn't the answer.

I wasn't aware anyone had been "Executed" by a college review board.

But reality check, colleges, employers and private organizations take action against people all the time that Law enforcement doesn't.

If I punch out my boss today, I may not get arrested, but I WILL get fired.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Throw Biff out on his entitled white ass if he gets out of line. Works perfectly fine. Even if he didn't do it, making an example out of him will keep all the other Biffs in line.

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

 

[JoeB131]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

The ends do not justify the means, here. Whatever it is that you think it accomplishes, punishing an innocent person for a crime that he did not commit is wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

The ends do not justify the means, here. Whatever it is that you think it accomplishes, punishing an innocent person for a crime that he did not commit is wrong.

Nobody is "innocent". If someone gets accused of something, he probably did something. Maybe not as serious as what he was accused of, but he did something.

 

[OldLady]

You are falsely accusing me of that stance. If you're going to champion "justice," you could at least be fair yourself.

You were whining because some rapes aren't prosecuted. Apparently you believe what happened in the cases being discussed is a solution to that issue. If not, then what is your solution?

Maybe those policies meant to ensure that accusations of rape are actually taken seriously on campus went too far? Maybe they need to be modified? I think throwing them away entirely could be unfair to the victims. Why can't the policies protect the rights of BOTH?

I agree, but I also think it is too unbalanced at the moment. The accused seem to have very few rights and there is a very low bar for evidence. No one should have their lives destroyed either by rape or by a false accusation. I think something needs to be done to adjust that balance.

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

 

[bripat9643]

You were whining because some rapes aren't prosecuted. Apparently you believe what happened in the cases being discussed is a solution to that issue. If not, then what is your solution?

Maybe those policies meant to ensure that accusations of rape are actually taken seriously on campus went too far? Maybe they need to be modified? I think throwing them away entirely could be unfair to the victims. Why can't the policies protect the rights of BOTH?

I agree, but I also think it is too unbalanced at the moment. The accused seem to have very few rights and there is a very low bar for evidence. No one should have their lives destroyed either by rape or by a false accusation. I think something needs to be done to adjust that balance.

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

You deny it, and the your promptly admit exactly what I accused you of. The standard of proof used in civil cases isn't appropriate for criminal offenses.

 

[OldLady]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

Harsh punishments may not necessarily change a rapist's behavior, but it sure will change the behavior of his buddies who see what happened to him. No means no. Sex should be approached a bit more thoughtfully and cautiously with someone you have an established, trusted relationship with. Then these situations would be a whole lot less frequent.

 

[OldLady]

Maybe those policies meant to ensure that accusations of rape are actually taken seriously on campus went too far? Maybe they need to be modified? I think throwing them away entirely could be unfair to the victims. Why can't the policies protect the rights of BOTH?

I agree, but I also think it is too unbalanced at the moment. The accused seem to have very few rights and there is a very low bar for evidence. No one should have their lives destroyed either by rape or by a false accusation. I think something needs to be done to adjust that balance.

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

You deny it, and the your promptly admit exactly what I accused you of. The standard of proof used in civil cases isn't appropriate for criminal offenses.

They aren't convicted of a crime.

 

[tinydancer]

You were whining because some rapes aren't prosecuted. Apparently you believe what happened in the cases being discussed is a solution to that issue. If not, then what is your solution?

Maybe those policies meant to ensure that accusations of rape are actually taken seriously on campus went too far? Maybe they need to be modified? I think throwing them away entirely could be unfair to the victims. Why can't the policies protect the rights of BOTH?

I agree, but I also think it is too unbalanced at the moment. The accused seem to have very few rights and there is a very low bar for evidence. No one should have their lives destroyed either by rape or by a false accusation. I think something needs to be done to adjust that balance.

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

The issue of evidence is a joke.There is no evidence presented in most cases. The young woman or young man gets to accuse another student and that's pretty well about it. Right from the get go it's a farce because the accuser is already labeled a "victim" with no proof.

No evidence in so many cases. Just the accusation. And it's up to the accused to prove his innocence.

THAT'S freaking bullshit.

 

[TNHarley]

Thank gawd. What a bunch of bedwetting horseshit.

 

[iceberg]

Maybe those policies meant to ensure that accusations of rape are actually taken seriously on campus went too far? Maybe they need to be modified? I think throwing them away entirely could be unfair to the victims. Why can't the policies protect the rights of BOTH?

I agree, but I also think it is too unbalanced at the moment. The accused seem to have very few rights and there is a very low bar for evidence. No one should have their lives destroyed either by rape or by a false accusation. I think something needs to be done to adjust that balance.

I agree. No one seems to be able to hear that, though.

What we hear is that you want to expel young men who haven't been convicted of anything. Are you denying that?

Yes, I deny it. I believe the college can, after an investigation and hearing, expel young men who they believe, more likely than not, raped a female student there. Preponderance of the evidence is good enough for our civil courts, family court, etc. 51% is good enough to get our puke of a President elected. There is nothing wrong with a preponderance of the evidence "verdict." The young man has NOT been convicted of anything. He is not on the national sex offender registry.

The issue of evidence is a joke.There is no evidence presented in most cases. The young woman or young man gets to accuse another student and that's pretty well about it. Right from the get go it's a farce because the accuser is already labeled a "victim" with no proof.

No evidence in so many cases. Just the accusation. And it's up to the accused to prove his innocence.

THAT'S freaking bullshit.

we live in a "victim" culture where it's actually a "good" thing to be a "victim" at times.

not of rape, no. lets not get stupid but how many times do people *on all sides* cry out they are the victim and kick out a "go fund me" to get free money.

welcome to today.

 

[tinydancer]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

Harsh punishments may not necessarily change a rapist's behavior, but it sure will change the behavior of his buddies who see what happened to him. No means no. Sex should be approached a bit more thoughtfully and cautiously with someone you have an established, trusted relationship with. Then these situations would be a whole lot less frequent.

With all due respect you need to also consider the other side of the coin. What if a student has been a serial rapist and all the student ever faced was expulsion? And then with a vengeance that student then goes out to rape some more? Off campus.

 

[TNHarley]

And there is where you are wrong, and will always be wrong. You think that it's just fine to punish someone for a crime that he did not commit. It's a bit startling to see you so openly admit it, but there it is.

Hey, you know what, harsh punishments change behavior.... sorry, man.

If you think the frats aren't changing their behavior, for the better, because of this you are delusional.

Harsh punishments may not necessarily change a rapist's behavior, but it sure will change the behavior of his buddies who see what happened to him. No means no. Sex should be approached a bit more thoughtfully and cautiously with someone you have an established, trusted relationship with. Then these situations would be a whole lot less frequent.

"no" also translates to "i was too drunk. I might have said yes, but he took advantage of me. Him being drunk too doesnt matter!"
Thank gawd this stupid crap will be over with.
I wonder how many innocent peoples lives this has ruined?

 

[JoeB131]

You deny it, and the your promptly admit exactly what I accused you of. The standard of proof used in civil cases isn't appropriate for criminal offenses.

You are absolutely right, it isn't.

So someone could be acquitted of a crime but still found liable civilly.

College enrollment is a civil matter, not a criminal one. It's not a matter between the state and the individual, it's a matter between an organization and the individual.

 

[JoeB131]

With all due respect you need to also consider the other side of the coin. What if a student has been a serial rapist and all the student ever faced was expulsion? And then with a vengeance that student then goes out to rape some more? Off campus.

Then that's not the campus' problem.

Then it should be up to the Keystone Cops and their 3% conviction rate to catch him.

All the colleges are responsible for are protecting their students.