Did God lie in Genesis 15:5 and 22:17?

[Delta4Embassy]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

 

[Meriweather]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

Two things. In all the generations that have lived on earth, are you sure that from Abraham to the newest newborn there have only been 14 million Jews?

Second: Ishmael is also the seed of Abraham.

 

[mudwhistle]

The Bible was written by man.

This OP is pretty much the normal product of Delta4E's confused mind.

 

[irosie91]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

jerk-----it is poetry

 

[irosie91]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

Two things. In all the generations that have lived on earth, are you sure that from Abraham to the newest newborn there have only been 14 million Jews?

Second: Ishmael is also the seed of Abraham.

language issues-------the heir named by Abraham himself to his "house" was Isaac. In fact he had other children besides both Ishmael and Isaac----but the
heir is Isaac----as per the custom of the day. The language of the bible is not
"American" --------the language of the bible is poetry in Hebrew

 

[Care4all]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

you are NOT counting the Jews from the 10 lost tribes?

or
I dunno?

 

[PK1]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

jerk-----it is poetry

---
Then you agree that the Bible should be in a book store's FICTION department?
.

 

[September]

Stars could mean actual stars or they can mean Angels, but it seems like God was just telling Abraham he is going to have seemingly countless descendants... as in, blood descendants, or perhaps he was even referring to anyone involved in Abrahamism whether they were related by blood or not... which at any moment past and future could include every human being who's ever lived who was Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc
​

 

[HaShev]

I agree with Ashtara, "in their era" it was a generalization that there would be the multiples of descendants.
In the secreting of the spiritual meaning this makes sense because Stars=malakh=messengers,
Heaven=Olam Habah(world to come=future to come perfected), so his seed aka descendants will be those
Rabbis ans prophets (messengers) in the time to come.
And we do control the gates of our enemies.

 

[the_human_being]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

ABRAHAM's seed. Abraham is the father of most all the people on earth. Abraham was not a Jew. The Jews only made up the Southern Kingdom. The Northern Kingdom was composed of ten tribes who were Israelites - not Jews. These people were invaded and dispersed and became known as the lost tribes of Israel.
You really should do a small amount of research in your never-ending endeavor to discredit Christianity. You make yourself look foolish.

 

[chikenwing]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

Yep you caught him,the real question would be what took you so long to catch on?

 

[irosie91]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

jerk-----it is poetry

---
Then you agree that the Bible should be in a book store's FICTION department?
.

no----it should be in the department devoted to scriptural writings ----along with the
Bhagavad Gita----also poetry

 

[Delta4Embassy]

[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
-Genesis 15

[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
- Genesis 22

Bible, King James Version

From anywhere on Earth, assuming perfect visibility you can count about 3000 stars. And "seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains of sand."

Yet there's only 14 million Jews.

Two things. In all the generations that have lived on earth, are you sure that from Abraham to the newest newborn there have only been 14 million Jews?

Second: Ishmael is also the seed of Abraham.

Even if there's been a trillion, that's a LOT less than the grains of sand, and there hasn't. Likely no more than a hundred million.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The Bible was written by man.

This OP is pretty much the normal product of Delta4E's confused mind.

Ya, or maybe it's just me trying to steer people into that same conclusion. Idiot.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Stars could mean actual stars or they can mean Angels, but it seems like God was just telling Abraham he is going to have seemingly countless descendants... as in, blood descendants, or perhaps he was even referring to anyone involved in Abrahamism whether they were related by blood or not... which at any moment past and future could include every human being who's ever lived who was Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc
​

Theists make a big thing about how God's never lied. Here,s twice, either he lied or was wrong. Neither possibility's good for God.

 

[irosie91]

Stars could mean actual stars or they can mean Angels, but it seems like God was just telling Abraham he is going to have seemingly countless descendants... as in, blood descendants, or perhaps he was even referring to anyone involved in Abrahamism whether they were related by blood or not... which at any moment past and future could include every human being who's ever lived who was Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc
​

Theists make a big thing about how God's never lied. Here,s twice, either he lied or was wrong. Neither possibility's good for God.

this forum is devoted to religion-----leave "G-D" out of it

 

[Meriweather]

Theists make a big thing about how God's never lied. Here,s twice, either he lied or was wrong. Neither possibility's good for God.

Do you allow God to use idioms? Or are you invoking the "Thou shalt not use idioms" commandment?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Theists make a big thing about how God's never lied. Here,s twice, either he lied or was wrong. Neither possibility's good for God.

Do you allow God to use idioms? Or are you invoking the "Thou shalt not use idioms" commandment?

Not when it gets reused 3 times. Appeared in a 3rd part but text was different enough I excluded it.

 

[Meriweather]

Not when it gets reused 3 times. Appeared in a 3rd part but text was different enough I excluded it.

Shall we do the math? How many generations would mankind need to populate the earth before the number you would accept as accurate is reached? To use another idiom, wouldn't that be like straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Not when it gets reused 3 times. Appeared in a 3rd part but text was different enough I excluded it.

Shall we do the math? How many generations would mankind need to populate the earth before the number you would accept as accurate is reached? To use another idiom, wouldn't that be like straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel?

The entire history of the planet and humanity doesn't even hit 1 trillion. The lifespan of the planet will never be sufficient to make those verses true.