Did Jesus really exist?

[MaxGrit]

Everything can and should be questioned. And that's the whole point. I question that your messiah even exists and so I resist the notion that I should live my life with him as my example and standard.

Yes. The question is seeking an answer. Do your research.

Almost all scholars agree that Jesus is a real historical figure.

I simply know that not to be true. A great many historians are highly skeptical of his existence.

It's not the quantity of the scholars, but the quality of the scholars.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I believe he was a real person but that he was just an ordinary person, nothing special about him at all.

I am the caretaker of my families cemetery. I only actually knew about 4 of the people buried there. My father knew many more, and my aunt knew even more than him, but there are some there, who no one knows anymore. The names have faded away from the tombstones, and a few never had a stone, the records were lost long before I took over, thus, we will probably never know who they were, or anything about them. That is sad.

2000 years after His birth, billions of people, still proclaim Jesus as Lord, and worship Him as such, most of those people try to live the life they believe the Man lived. But, if you want to claim, that there was nothing special about Him, you have that right. Just as I have the right to tell you, that if this world last another 100 years, just a few people will remember you, or the contributions you made here, and a 100 years after that, no one will remember you. Yet, Jesus will still be worshipped by billions or trillions of people, and you, like me, and the rest of the folks on here, will just be dust, rotting in a box, or scattered to the wind, until the trumpet blows, that is.

 

[THE LIGHT]

The discrepancy you fail to note is your obvious break with a reality based worldview.

The moral relativist world view? The world view that everyone has their own truth?

You have floated some rather strange conspiracies involving mythical entities of gawds and satans. As with so many religionists, you have assigned various human attributes to the spooks and demons who haunt your world.

I understand that reality seems strange to you because you are still living based on perception of your flesh. Unless you are born again you cannot see the things of the spirit. You cannot see the wind yet no one denies that the wind exists. No one claims the wind is spooky.

Anyone who thinks the world is "normal" hasn't talked to a quantum physicist.

Your comments in this thread more that highlight a disturbed, alternate reality that is at odds with the modern, relevant world.

Careful now. In this "modern, relevant world" of yours:

• Mass shootings are on the rise
• UN appoints Earth contact for aliens
• Babies skulls are punctured with scissors, their brains are sucked out with a vacuum and flushed down a toilet. In some cases their spines are snapped, pulled out and all body parts reassembled to make sure everything has been removed.
• ISIS slits peoples throats and crucifies hundreds of people on the spot.

The only alternate reality is one that thinks we live in a modern civilized world. As US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright stated recently, "To put it mildly, the world is a mess."

Ultimately, the modern world of science, reason and rationality is under no obligation to make allowance for such imposed standards of ignorance and superstition. To endorse those practices that represent sneering disdain for the enlightened world is self destructive. The allowance for retrograde ignorance is a symbol of repression.

“All thinking men are atheists.” -Ernest Hemingway

"[Ernest Hemingway] pushed two shells into the twelve-gauge Boss shotgun ...put the end of the barrel into his mouth, pulled the trigger and blew out his brains". Source: Wikipedia

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(Psalms 14:1-3 KJV)


I think I'll take my world view over your "reality based" world view any day. Thank you very much.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Everything can and should be questioned. And that's the whole point. I question that your messiah even exists and so I resist the notion that I should live my life with him as my example and standard.

Yes. The question is seeking an answer. Do your research.

Almost all scholars agree that Jesus is a real historical figure.

I simply know that not to be true. A great many historians are highly skeptical of his existence.

It's not the quantity of the scholars, but the quality of the scholars.

I agree, I do argue that same point against Christians when they say that there are more of them than there are atheists so I'd be a hypocrite not to agree with that statement. Now the challenge is to honestly determine which scholars are more accomplished,.

 

[Hollie]

Everything can and should be questioned. And that's the whole point. I question that your messiah even exists and so I resist the notion that I should live my life with him as my example and standard.

Yes. The question is seeking an answer. Do your research.

Almost all scholars agree that Jesus is a real historical figure.

I simply know that not to be true. A great many historians are highly skeptical of his existence.

It's not the quantity of the scholars, but the quality of the scholars.

Nonsense. It's the validity of the evidence. "Almost all" scholars believing that hey-Jesus was a historical figure says nothing about biblical claims to supernaturalism / magic.

 

[Hollie]

The discrepancy you fail to note is your obvious break with a reality based worldview.

The moral relativist world view? The world view that everyone has their own truth?

You have floated some rather strange conspiracies involving mythical entities of gawds and satans. As with so many religionists, you have assigned various human attributes to the spooks and demons who haunt your world.

I understand that reality seems strange to you because you are still living based on perception of your flesh. Unless you are born again you cannot see the things of the spirit. You cannot see the wind yet no one denies that the wind exists. No one claims the wind is spooky.

Anyone who thinks the world is "normal" hasn't talked to a quantum physicist.

Your comments in this thread more that highlight a disturbed, alternate reality that is at odds with the modern, relevant world.

Careful now. In this "modern, relevant world" of yours:

• Mass shootings are on the rise
• UN appoints Earth contact for aliens
• Babies skulls are punctured with scissors, their brains are sucked out with a vacuum and flushed down a toilet. In some cases their spines are snapped, pulled out and all body parts reassembled to make sure everything has been removed.
• ISIS slits peoples throats and crucifies hundreds of people on the spot.

The only alternate reality is one that thinks we live in a modern civilized world. As US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright stated recently, "To put it mildly, the world is a mess."

Ultimately, the modern world of science, reason and rationality is under no obligation to make allowance for such imposed standards of ignorance and superstition. To endorse those practices that represent sneering disdain for the enlightened world is self destructive. The allowance for retrograde ignorance is a symbol of repression.

“All thinking men are atheists.” -Ernest Hemingway

"[Ernest Hemingway] pushed two shells into the twelve-gauge Boss shotgun ...put the end of the barrel into his mouth, pulled the trigger and blew out his brains". Source: Wikipedia

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(Psalms 14:1-3 KJV)


I think I'll take my world view over your "reality based" world view any day. Thank you very much.

Oddly, "nothing happens 'cept for the will of the gawds".

 

[PostmodernProph]

A Born Again Christian would sooner spend their life time in a Malaria ridden swamp than spend 3 months learning Hebrew.

ironic.....do you

I want to discuss the misquotes and mistranslations in TNT.
Just like St. Jerome did.
So please, MORE St. Jerome!

you didn't do so well defending your claim about Greek mythology.....do you think you can do better with mistranslations?......

Actually, I do speak Hebrew pretty darn well.
I study Torah, Mishnah, Talmud and various commentaries in Hebrew and Aramaic.

Mistranslations...
A lifetime's work as every single Torah reference in TNT is mistranslated or taken out of context.
Saul of Tarsus was no scholar and never claimed to be.

well, obviously you didn't dedicate your life to understanding Greek mythology.....

I spent a childhood reading Greek Mythology.
It never did smack of real life.

After 30+ years of delving into the Jewish Scriptures, I was shocked by the The Gospel According To Matthew.
I literally had tears of laughter rolling from my eyes as I found myself reading a poor attempt at Stephen King.
Then I recoiled in horror afterwards realizing afterwards that this story was a basis for a religion.
No wonder The Roman Catholic Church has such a bloody history.
Demonize, torture and kill to save someone's soul.
And if you find yourself in a society where you can't demonize, torture and kill, keep reminding them of...
The Lake.
A sick result of a flawed theology.

if you're well versed in it, I find it odd you have yet to back up your claim that Christianity is a holdover of Greek mythology?.....what's your favorite.....Osiris as a virgin or the crucifixion of Atticus?.....or maybe its just the claim that every deity that ever existed was born on December 25th.......

I see you don't get it.
The style of TNT is nothing akin to the style of it's "mother" religion.
Every single word, phrase, verse and chapter of the Torah can be parsed, analyzed and compared.
It is a moral and, to a lessor extent, historical book.
TNT comes across as nothing more than a Grimm's Tale; a fairy tale.
There's a reason there's over 250,000 variants in TNT; it doesn't matter as the words and verses were never intended to relay a message other than, "Believe or burn".
In fact, a poorly dated fairy tale as relevant to today as Greek Mythology.

I stopped reading Mythology in my late single digit years and got bored of comics around the age of 18.
There has been no relevance to my life in Myths for 30+ years.
Even the movies are boring.

so it was just a throw away comment without meaning......

 

[Indeependent]

A Born Again Christian would sooner spend their life time in a Malaria ridden swamp than spend 3 months learning Hebrew.

ironic.....do you

I want to discuss the misquotes and mistranslations in TNT.
Just like St. Jerome did.
So please, MORE St. Jerome!

you didn't do so well defending your claim about Greek mythology.....do you think you can do better with mistranslations?......

Actually, I do speak Hebrew pretty darn well.
I study Torah, Mishnah, Talmud and various commentaries in Hebrew and Aramaic.

Mistranslations...
A lifetime's work as every single Torah reference in TNT is mistranslated or taken out of context.
Saul of Tarsus was no scholar and never claimed to be.

well, obviously you didn't dedicate your life to understanding Greek mythology.....

I spent a childhood reading Greek Mythology.
It never did smack of real life.

After 30+ years of delving into the Jewish Scriptures, I was shocked by the The Gospel According To Matthew.
I literally had tears of laughter rolling from my eyes as I found myself reading a poor attempt at Stephen King.
Then I recoiled in horror afterwards realizing afterwards that this story was a basis for a religion.
No wonder The Roman Catholic Church has such a bloody history.
Demonize, torture and kill to save someone's soul.
And if you find yourself in a society where you can't demonize, torture and kill, keep reminding them of...
The Lake.
A sick result of a flawed theology.

if you're well versed in it, I find it odd you have yet to back up your claim that Christianity is a holdover of Greek mythology?.....what's your favorite.....Osiris as a virgin or the crucifixion of Atticus?.....or maybe its just the claim that every deity that ever existed was born on December 25th.......

I see you don't get it.
The style of TNT is nothing akin to the style of it's "mother" religion.
Every single word, phrase, verse and chapter of the Torah can be parsed, analyzed and compared.
It is a moral and, to a lessor extent, historical book.
TNT comes across as nothing more than a Grimm's Tale; a fairy tale.
There's a reason there's over 250,000 variants in TNT; it doesn't matter as the words and verses were never intended to relay a message other than, "Believe or burn".
In fact, a poorly dated fairy tale as relevant to today as Greek Mythology.

I stopped reading Mythology in my late single digit years and got bored of comics around the age of 18.
There has been no relevance to my life in Myths for 30+ years.
Even the movies are boring.

so it was just a throw away comment without meaning......

Absolutely not!
TNT was written for the audience that would accept it...the uneducated.
Heck, the "Apostles" were fishermen, hardly your most educated citizens, and tax collectors, hardly your finest citizens.
Peter was "amazed" by everything he sees; in other words, he was a moron.
I can't remember the verse, but somewhere in TNT, one of the Apostles states something akin to "Knowledge is arrogance".
TNT is geared towards the weak minded.

 

[Disir]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

I'm not asking you to debate an internet site. I'm giving you material that I will expand on. It's easily verifiable. You wanted documentation, no?

I would prefer if you would stay on topic.

St. Jerome was translating Koine Greek to Latin. Latin was already a dead language pretty much every place else. Anywhoo, let me introduce you to the Septuagint.
Septuagint - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

third irrelevant post in a row.....why are you even posting.....the claim was that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology......

I gave you a heads up that it would contain more than mythos. I don't think that you grasp just how Greek the NT is or how much has been taken from other cultures. I'm just laying the ground work.
In fact, I already gave you the information on where your free will argument comes from, cosmic sympathy, astrology and prophecy, the incorporation of the star of Bethlehem-The one that never happened. A comet did come through 12 BCE but you got nothing no where and no how recorded (for a star/planet/comet of Bethlehem at the time of the alleged birth) and it isn't from lack of trying from historical astronomy. If you were smart then you recognized the beginnings of asceticism provided in the link to Hellenic Astrology (a philosophical encyclopedia rather than an atheistsrus site that you initially requested). You would also have acknowledged Zeus.

I provided an example of that astrology and prophecy and (your lucky I didn't throw in the numismatics) the anti-Roman sentiment that was found with a savior king. The Egyptians had a book of astrology they used to calculate the Roman losses during Mithradates reign. Further for anti-Roman sentiment among Jewish people one need look no further then Daniel 2 and 7. Earlier I mentioned the Jewish war of 66-70 CE and the dating of the gospels. I have provided St. Jerome's confession that there was no virgin birth and a link to the Septuagint. None of that information was taken from an atheistrus site as previously requested.

It's political as all get out.

So, now I am going to get into Alexandria.

Here is a link to Daniel
Book of Daniel Jewish Virtual Library

 

[PostmodernProph]

Absolutely not!
TNT was written for the audience that would accept it...the uneducated.
Heck, the "Apostles" were fishermen, hardly your most educated citizens, and tax collectors, hardly your finest citizens.
Peter was "amazed" by everything he sees; in other words, he was a moron.
I can't remember the verse, but somewhere in TNT, one of the Apostles states something akin to "Knowledge is arrogance".
TNT is geared towards the weak minded.

so basically, you made the comment that Christianity is a hold over from Greek mythology, you have not demonstrated anything that supports that comment nor do you have any intent to do so, beyond saying that its intended audience was uneducated......but its not a throw away comment......all I can say is that if knowledge is arrogance, you are certainly a humble man.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

I'm not asking you to debate an internet site. I'm giving you material that I will expand on. It's easily verifiable. You wanted documentation, no?

I would prefer if you would stay on topic.

St. Jerome was translating Koine Greek to Latin. Latin was already a dead language pretty much every place else. Anywhoo, let me introduce you to the Septuagint.
Septuagint - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

third irrelevant post in a row.....why are you even posting.....the claim was that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology......

I gave you a heads up that it would contain more than mythos. I don't think that you grasp just how Greek the NT is or how much has been taken from other cultures. I'm just laying the ground work.
In fact, I already gave you the information on where your free will argument comes from, cosmic sympathy, astrology and prophecy, the incorporation of the star of Bethlehem-The one that never happened. A comet did come through 12 BCE but you got nothing no where and no how recorded (for a star/planet/comet of Bethlehem at the time of the alleged birth) and it isn't from lack of trying from historical astronomy. If you were smart then you recognized the beginnings of asceticism provided in the link to Hellenic Astrology (a philosophical encyclopedia rather than an atheistsrus site that you initially requested). You would also have acknowledged Zeus.

I provided an example of that astrology and prophecy and (your lucky I didn't throw in the numismatics) the anti-Roman sentiment that was found with a savior king. The Egyptians had a book of astrology they used to calculate the Roman losses during Mithradates reign. Further for anti-Roman sentiment among Jewish people one need look no further then Daniel 2 and 7. Earlier I mentioned the Jewish war of 66-70 CE and the dating of the gospels. I have provided St. Jerome's confession that there was no virgin birth and a link to the Septuagint. None of that information was taken from an atheistrus site as previously requested.

It's political as all get out.

So, now I am going to get into Alexandria.

Here is a link to Daniel
Book of Daniel Jewish Virtual Library

if you ever get to the point of addressing the topic at hand, send me a pm......

 

[Indeependent]

Absolutely not!
TNT was written for the audience that would accept it...the uneducated.
Heck, the "Apostles" were fishermen, hardly your most educated citizens, and tax collectors, hardly your finest citizens.
Peter was "amazed" by everything he sees; in other words, he was a moron.
I can't remember the verse, but somewhere in TNT, one of the Apostles states something akin to "Knowledge is arrogance".
TNT is geared towards the weak minded.

so basically, you made the comment that Christianity is a hold over from Greek mythology, you have not demonstrated anything that supports that comment nor do you have any intent to do so, beyond saying that its intended audience was uneducated......but its not a throw away comment......all I can say is that if knowledge is arrogance, you are certainly a humble man.......

Your mind set is very Aristotelian; you are concrete and see in black & white.
Greek Mythology is based on Aristotelian philosophy.
Personal helplessness, vicarious outcomes and lack of depth in observation.
Simple minded.
Not scientific at all.
After all, a rock MUST fall faster than a feather.
Time is NOT relative.

And I see you have ignored my other content.

 

[Disir]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

I'm not asking you to debate an internet site. I'm giving you material that I will expand on. It's easily verifiable. You wanted documentation, no?

I would prefer if you would stay on topic.

St. Jerome was translating Koine Greek to Latin. Latin was already a dead language pretty much every place else. Anywhoo, let me introduce you to the Septuagint.
Septuagint - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

third irrelevant post in a row.....why are you even posting.....the claim was that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology......

I gave you a heads up that it would contain more than mythos. I don't think that you grasp just how Greek the NT is or how much has been taken from other cultures. I'm just laying the ground work.
In fact, I already gave you the information on where your free will argument comes from, cosmic sympathy, astrology and prophecy, the incorporation of the star of Bethlehem-The one that never happened. A comet did come through 12 BCE but you got nothing no where and no how recorded (for a star/planet/comet of Bethlehem at the time of the alleged birth) and it isn't from lack of trying from historical astronomy. If you were smart then you recognized the beginnings of asceticism provided in the link to Hellenic Astrology (a philosophical encyclopedia rather than an atheistsrus site that you initially requested). You would also have acknowledged Zeus.

I provided an example of that astrology and prophecy and (your lucky I didn't throw in the numismatics) the anti-Roman sentiment that was found with a savior king. The Egyptians had a book of astrology they used to calculate the Roman losses during Mithradates reign. Further for anti-Roman sentiment among Jewish people one need look no further then Daniel 2 and 7. Earlier I mentioned the Jewish war of 66-70 CE and the dating of the gospels. I have provided St. Jerome's confession that there was no virgin birth and a link to the Septuagint. None of that information was taken from an atheistrus site as previously requested.

It's political as all get out.

So, now I am going to get into Alexandria.

Here is a link to Daniel
Book of Daniel Jewish Virtual Library

if you ever get to the point of addressing the topic at hand, send me a pm......

You know what the point is and you are afraid.

 

[Indeependent]

Disir,
How would YOU react if you have been indoctrinated with Heaven or Hell?
It must be terrifying.

 

[Disir]

Disir,
How would YOU react if you have been indoctrinated with Heaven or Hell?
It must be terrifying.

Pfffftttttt™

I tried to do this in a manner that was not a slap down or that would be considered as offensive. It's difficult to try to shove antiquity and late antiquity into a limited amount of time and space. Unfortunately, the only thing this individual is prepared for are immediate slap downs and then jumping from one requirement to the other in order to evade the issues present.

 

[Hollie]

Absolutely not!
TNT was written for the audience that would accept it...the uneducated.
Heck, the "Apostles" were fishermen, hardly your most educated citizens, and tax collectors, hardly your finest citizens.
Peter was "amazed" by everything he sees; in other words, he was a moron.
I can't remember the verse, but somewhere in TNT, one of the Apostles states something akin to "Knowledge is arrogance".
TNT is geared towards the weak minded.

so basically, you made the comment that Christianity is a hold over from Greek mythology, you have not demonstrated anything that supports that comment nor do you have any intent to do so, beyond saying that its intended audience was uneducated......but its not a throw away comment......all I can say is that if knowledge is arrogance, you are certainly a humble man.......

Oh. You poor dear. You're ignorant of the fact that your gawds are hand-me-down gawds. I think where you falter is in the futile attempt to un-link your gods from all the earlier human inventions of supernatural entities.

But second, you seem to be unable to conceptually wrap your head around the evolutionary origin of the Abrahamic faiths. For some odd reason, you are unable to draw the necessary conceptual conclusion that what is Islam evolved from Christianity, in the same way that Christianity evolved from Judaism, and Judaism evolved from earlier Canaanite polytheism.

You seem to have further conveniently forgotten the Canaanite pagan polytheism from which Judaism (and hence all the following Abrahamic faiths) originally evolved.

If you insist on trying to un-stick the religions from which yours evolved, you cannot fail to embrace its pagan roots without justifying charges of special pleading. Your superstitions regarding gods have done nothing but to replace superstitions. Are you suggesting that when the Greek gods replaced the more ancient Lares of Rome, that too was an example of "the real gawds replacing earlier false gawds?"

Of course not. It was one falsehood conquering another. A new superstition replacing an older superstition,

 

[Indeependent]

Disir,
How would YOU react if you have been indoctrinated with Heaven or Hell?
It must be terrifying.

TRUTH! Do you seek truth or are you afraid and hide in the tall grass?

God's not the evil bastard TNT paints Him to be.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I am the caretaker of my families cemetery. I only actually knew about 4 of the people buried there. My father knew many more, and my aunt knew even more than him, but there are some there, who no one knows anymore. The names have faded away from the tombstones, and a few never had a stone, the records were lost long before I took over, thus, we will probably never know who they were, or anything about them. That is sad.

2000 years after His birth, billions of people, still proclaim Jesus as Lord, and worship Him as such, most of those people try to live the life they believe the Man lived. But, if you want to claim, that there was nothing special about Him, you have that right. Just as I have the right to tell you, that if this world last another 100 years, just a few people will remember you, or the contributions you made here, and a 100 years after that, no one will remember you. Yet, Jesus will still be worshipped by billions or trillions of people, and you, like me, and the rest of the folks on here, will just be dust, rotting in a box, or scattered to the wind, until the trumpet blows, that is.

How inspiring. Makes we want to jump into the lake and shout, "Halleluiah!"

 

[Hollie]

Disir,
How would YOU react if you have been indoctrinated with Heaven or Hell?
It must be terrifying.

TRUTH! Do you seek truth or are you afraid and hide in the tall grass?

God's not the evil bastard TNT paints Him to be.

You didn't mess with the Hebrew Scriptures configuration of god. He'd rip ya' a new one. The Christian configuration of the god was a bit like the OT god who was slipped a dose of ecstasy.

 

[JoeB131]

[

So Paul gave up his life for a lie, eh?

There's no evidence other than Church tradition that Paul was martyred.

But by that logic. Did David Koresh die for a lie? Did Jim Jones die for a lie?