Do Americans Know Enough About Russia/Ukraine to Support US Involvement ?

[Ringo]

Where does that path end?

I hope, in the end, to the creation of the world communist union of the peoples of the Earth

 

[Slade3200]

It's a pretty complex story, and I am not a Russia or Ukraine expert. Few are left these days. . . as we can see by the discussions on these boards.

". . . Every one of my Soviet ‘expert’ counterparts was a byproduct of an American system of education designed to empower those who participated with critical fact-based discernment skills, capable of separating fact from fiction and filtering out personal and institutional bias. The result was a system that produced people like Jack Matlock, the US Ambassador to the Soviet Union during its final years, and George Kolt, the CIA’s top Soviet analyst. Both will go down in history as predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union (the thing about experts is that while their advice might be prescient, it is still held hostage by politicians who answer to a domestic constituency which is often unmoved by fact-based analysis.)

The end of the Cold War, however, brought with it the end of both the Soviet expert and the academic establishment that produced them. By way of example, I had been given two classified commendations by the Director, CIA, for my work in the Soviet Union. But in 1992, after being invited to CIA Headquarters to interview for an analytical position, I was told by the head of the new Russia analytical unit that I was too imbued with “Cold War” thinking; the world had moved on.

Russia became a playground for a new category of ‘expert,’ the political and economic ‘exploiter’ who viewed Russia as a defeated power subject to the whim of the American victor. This class was dominated by the likes of Michael McFaul and his ilk, people who viewed Boris Yeltsin not as the by-product of Soviet and Russian history, but rather a malleable tool in their effort to transform Russia into a compliant “democracy” subservient to their new American masters.

Russian-area studies stopped being the go-to major when it came to interacting with the former Soviet Union, replaced by business and economics degrees sought by people whose purpose wasn’t to understand Russia but rather to exploit it. Interest in Russian studies dwindled, a byproduct of a decline in interest and numbers, in terms of graduate students and faculty. Moreover, the system became infected by the reality of “garbage in, garbage out”: as the old Cold War Soviet specialists were retired from their posts in academia, they were not replaced by people possessing similar academic discipline, but rather a new generation of academics governed more by political perception than fact-based reality. Again, Michael McFaul comes to mind, a man driven not by the complex history of the Soviet Union and Russia, but rather his own vision of what Russia should be. . . "

Why a war may be the only solution Americans can bring to this conflict​

Why a war may be the only solution Americans can bring to this conflict

The US used to produce experts on Soviet and Russian affairs like Jack Matlock. Today we get the likes of Michael McFaul. The decline of popular...

www.ronpaulinstitute.org

Here, this guy is an expert on foreign policy and an expert on the region, he can explain WHY this has happened. Is it justifiable? Not necessarily. But if NATO and the west did not have any intention of holding up their end of Minsk I or Minsk II?

. . . Trump was right, long ago, when he said, we should have focused our efforts on commerce, and that NATO no longer served a meaningful purpose. It was nothing but a provocation to Russia. It caused the Georgian War, and the Russians warned us, long ago, it would cause this. . . and? The policy wonks, in their hubris, believed their own lies about Russia, and their own egos about their own nobility.



Engagement and Economic integration, rather than military alliance expansion, would have been the better strategic alternative. . . we asked for this, and now? We are reaping what we have sown. Our chickens are coming home to roost. Kissinger's worst fear have come true, we have pushed Russia into China's arms. . . .

It’s interesting that you blame NATO and not Russia for invading and taking over other peoples territories. Why is that?

 

[Slade3200]

1. Hitler used the same argument when he "supported" the German population in the Sudetenland

Sudetenland | Facts, History, & Annexation by Hitler | Britannica​

https://www.britannica.com › ... › Geographic Regions

Sudetenland, sections of northern and western Bohemia and northern Moravia (modern Czech Republic). The Sudetenland became a major source of contention ...
‎Munich Agreement · ‎Moravia · ‎Bohemia · ‎Konrad Henlein



2. Trump tried to strengthen NATO

Trump pushed NATO nations to pay the 2% of GDP they promised, rather than the 0.8 % they were paying, while America paid the rest.




Get your facts straight.

Wow, I can’t believe I’m actually writing this but I a a agree with politichic

that felt weird

 

[sartre play]

In the mid-1960s, then US President Lyndon Johnson sent massive numbers of US troops to Vietnam. At the time, most Americans, without having much information, blindly supported this action. A few years later, after Americans became more informed (and thousands of dead troops were returning in wooden crates), millions of Americans became fiercely opposed to that military endeavor, and Johnson himself refused to run for re-election in 1968.

I don't know too much about the Russia/Ukraine scenario, but I do know that Ukraine has been part of Russia for hundreds of years. Ukraine is rich in natural resources, while the Ukranian people (with 99.8% literacy) are among the poorest in the world.

Would the Ukranians, now tolerating a corrupt government, be worse off, the same, or better off if that corrupt government disappeared, and Russia (or just about anybody else) were to talk over in Ukraine ? Is Russia going to be fighting the Ukranian PEOPLE, or just a Ukrainan GOVERNMENT, that represents not much more than a wealthy plutocracy of a small number of Ukrainians ?

In any case, Russia is currently going into Ukraine (a non-NATO country), so what business is it of Joe Biden or the US government to be involved in this, with sanctions, troops, or in whatever way ? Do we really understand this whole thing ?

I don't understand this whole thing and neither do you. Its once again pick a side time in America. Political party membership being once again more important than finding solutions or saving human lives.

 

[sartre play]

Show us through documentation how Ukraine made the Biden's rich you lying piece of shit.

With out the insults, would be interested in the facts of how the Ukraine made the J BIDEN rich?

 

[sartre play]

Damn fool. Everybody knows about that . Except YOU ?

Every one does not know. As you seem to know please explain it to those of us interested in having the information.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow, I can’t believe I’m actually writing this but I a a agree with politichic

that felt weird

Consider following the instructions on the shampoo, in this regard:

Apply, rinse, repeat.

 

[Slade3200]

Consider following the instructions on the shampoo, in this regard:

Apply, rinse, repeat.

I’m worried that my hair will start to fall out

 

[PoliticalChic]

I’m worried that my hair will start to fall out

But knowledge will increace apace!!!

 

[Slade3200]

But knowledge will increace apace!!!

That’s a great point would you rather be bald and knowledgeable or unknowledgable with beautiful flowing locks of hair?

 

[PoliticalChic]

That’s a great point would you rather be bald and knowledgeable or unknowledgable with beautiful flowing locks of hair?

Think of it this way: you'd be an actual "Egg Head."


: egg-head

1. a person who is highly academic or studious; an intellectual.
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Mushroom]

I hope, in the end, to the creation of the world communist union of the peoples of the Earth

After all, over 100 million people can't be wrong, right?

 

[Mushroom]

1. Hitler used the same argument when he "supported" the German population in the Sudetenland

And the invasion of Austria. And his other expansions even before the war started. And others were more than willing to give it to him peacefully, so long as there was "Peace in our time!"

The problem here is that some of us bothered to stay awake in our history classes, and know what that "peace" cost in the long run.

 

[Slade3200]

Think of it this way: you'd be an actual "Egg Head."


: egg-head

1. a person who is highly academic or studious; an intellectual.
   View attachment 606839

That’s what I should aspire to be huh… I’ll have to think about that. I’ll call my buddy Fabio and see what he thinks about it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Wait....
Did Biden color his hair and grow a mustache?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And the invasion of Austria. And his other expansions even before the war started. And others were more than willing to give it to him peacefully, so long as there was "Peace in our time!"

The problem here is that some of us bothered to stay awake in our history classes, and know what that "peace" cost in the long run.

Don't forget who else supported appeasement of Hitler:


. When Chamberlain infamously gave in to Hitler's advances in Europe.....FDR was right there giving him a high-five:

At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:



"MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference

MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)

Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move

mobile.nytimes.com

 

[Ringo]

After all, over 100 million people can't be wrong, right?

Actually, it's over 100 billion, according to new sources taken from the ass.

 

[SavannahMann]

I hope, in the end, to the creation of the world communist union of the peoples of the Earth

So you admit that my point is correct. Putin was and almost certainly remains a true believer in Marxism and Leninism. Thanks. And since your stated goal is contrary to the desire of humanity, it will fail. As Communism is destined to fail, always.

 

[Ringo]

So you admit that my point is correct. Putin was and almost certainly remains a true believer in Marxism and Leninism.

No, he is not.

 

[Circe]

I was actually asking for words and original thought. That’s how dialogues work. Give it a try

He can't speak English well enough to use words, as you can see.

This infestation of Russkies! I hate it! I wish there were traps we could use!