Do Americans Know Enough About Russia/Ukraine to Support US Involvement ?

[MisterBeale]

Putin will test NATO resolve by sending troops into Estonia.
If NATO fails to respond, he'll take the rest of the Baltic states.
And NATO will collapse - because of an absence of leadership.

That is the most absurd bullshit I have read so far in this whole crisis.

Did you just pull that our of your ass, or do you have some Russia expert, or a speech from Putin or one of his advisors to back up such nonsense?

 

[MisterBeale]

I guess we should probably just do anything Russia wants so they don’t get mad and invade

 

[protectionist]

Thats nonsense

Japan was crushed in every way possible

Japan came back strong years later,////Sony, Toshiba, Toyota, Nissan, etc.

 

[Slade3200]

View attachment 606610

What I said was pretty damn close to what you were saying. Absurdity

 

[protectionist]

Haha. So you’re obviously justifying Putins attack. What provocation do you think justifies the invasion

I know I dont know all the facts but I know enough to know Putin is in the wrong.

Yeah ? So you know why the Ukranian people are in poverty, despite having 99.8% literacy, and the country loaded with natural resources ? And why this would have nothing to do with corruption in the Ukranian govt ? You think ? Tell us.

 

[protectionist]

Haha. So you’re obviously justifying Putins attack. What provocation do you think justifies the invasion

Did you read the OP ?

 

[protectionist]

Right. Because obviously the entire world simply ignored when Russia went to the UNSC to bring up charges of genocide months ago.

Let's hear it.

 

[protectionist]

Yes, they did know. In fact, by late summer 1945 Japan was already pulling its forces out of Asia, and moving them as fast as they could to Japan to defend the home islands. If they were going to go on a murder rampage they would have done it then.

Certainly not after they had been ordered to surrender. I can't think of a single instance where Japanese forces ever surrendered during the entire war. And after the war they surrendered without question.

Thye still could have attacked the Chinese just a few years later, when they became a world economic power. Sony was founded in 1946. Alongside consumer devices such as TV and video, cameras, and game consoles, the company has introduced various professional audio equipment such as microphones, DATs, MTRs, and effectors.

Toshiba was founded in 1939 by the merger of Shibaura Seisakusho (Shibaura Engineering Works)[15] and Tokyo Denki (Tokyo Electric).

Toyota started in 1933. Nissan started in 1911. Datsun started in 1931.

 

[MisterBeale]

Haha. So you’re obviously justifying Putins attack. What provocation do you think justifies the invasion

It's a pretty complex story, and I am not a Russia or Ukraine expert. Few are left these days. . . as we can see by the discussions on these boards.

". . . Every one of my Soviet ‘expert’ counterparts was a byproduct of an American system of education designed to empower those who participated with critical fact-based discernment skills, capable of separating fact from fiction and filtering out personal and institutional bias. The result was a system that produced people like Jack Matlock, the US Ambassador to the Soviet Union during its final years, and George Kolt, the CIA’s top Soviet analyst. Both will go down in history as predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union (the thing about experts is that while their advice might be prescient, it is still held hostage by politicians who answer to a domestic constituency which is often unmoved by fact-based analysis.)

The end of the Cold War, however, brought with it the end of both the Soviet expert and the academic establishment that produced them. By way of example, I had been given two classified commendations by the Director, CIA, for my work in the Soviet Union. But in 1992, after being invited to CIA Headquarters to interview for an analytical position, I was told by the head of the new Russia analytical unit that I was too imbued with “Cold War” thinking; the world had moved on.

Russia became a playground for a new category of ‘expert,’ the political and economic ‘exploiter’ who viewed Russia as a defeated power subject to the whim of the American victor. This class was dominated by the likes of Michael McFaul and his ilk, people who viewed Boris Yeltsin not as the by-product of Soviet and Russian history, but rather a malleable tool in their effort to transform Russia into a compliant “democracy” subservient to their new American masters.

Russian-area studies stopped being the go-to major when it came to interacting with the former Soviet Union, replaced by business and economics degrees sought by people whose purpose wasn’t to understand Russia but rather to exploit it. Interest in Russian studies dwindled, a byproduct of a decline in interest and numbers, in terms of graduate students and faculty. Moreover, the system became infected by the reality of “garbage in, garbage out”: as the old Cold War Soviet specialists were retired from their posts in academia, they were not replaced by people possessing similar academic discipline, but rather a new generation of academics governed more by political perception than fact-based reality. Again, Michael McFaul comes to mind, a man driven not by the complex history of the Soviet Union and Russia, but rather his own vision of what Russia should be. . . "

Why a war may be the only solution Americans can bring to this conflict​

Why a war may be the only solution Americans can bring to this conflict

The US used to produce experts on Soviet and Russian affairs like Jack Matlock. Today we get the likes of Michael McFaul. The decline of popular...

www.ronpaulinstitute.org

Here, this guy is an expert on foreign policy and an expert on the region, he can explain WHY this has happened. Is it justifiable? Not necessarily. But if NATO and the west did not have any intention of holding up their end of Minsk I or Minsk II?

. . . Trump was right, long ago, when he said, we should have focused our efforts on commerce, and that NATO no longer served a meaningful purpose. It was nothing but a provocation to Russia. It caused the Georgian War, and the Russians warned us, long ago, it would cause this. . . and? The policy wonks, in their hubris, believed their own lies about Russia, and their own egos about their own nobility.



Engagement and Economic integration, rather than military alliance expansion, would have been the better strategic alternative. . . we asked for this, and now? We are reaping what we have sown. Our chickens are coming home to roost. Kissinger's worst fear have come true, we have pushed Russia into China's arms. . . .

 

[Mushroom]

Yeah ? So you know why the Ukranian people are in poverty despite having 99.8% literacy, and the country loaded with natural resources ? Tell us.

That is not saying much, as Russia is in the same boat. The average annual income in Russia is around$5,000 US.

So tell us, why are the Russian people in poverty, despite having a 99.3% literacy rate and a country loaded with natural resources?

Of course, one big problem in Ukraine might be because Russia has been supporting a civil war there for the last decade.

 

[protectionist]

That is not saying much, as Russia is in the same boat. The average annual income in Russia is around$5,000 US.

So tell us, why are the Russian people in poverty, despite having a 99.3% literacy rate and a country loaded with natural resources?

Of course, one big problem in Ukraine might be because Russia has been supporting a civil war there for the last decade.

Very interesting. So now tell us why the Ukranian people are in poverty, despite having 99.8% literacy, and the country loaded with natural resources. And how it could be that the Ukranian govt could not be at fault.

And how anybody taking over their govt would be a chance for the Ukranian people to become better off.

 

[Mushroom]

Let's hear it.

They never did. Because it does not exist. That is a lie told for their own people, Putin knows he would get laughed right out of the UN if he even tried to make that claim.

 

[Slade3200]

Yeah ? So you know why the Ukranian people are in poverty, despite having 99.8% literacy, and the country loaded with natural resources ? And why this would have nothing to do with corruption in the Ukranian govt ? You think ? Tell us.

Being in poor economic position is not an excuses for a military invasion

 

[MisterBeale]

Right. Because obviously the entire world simply ignored when Russia went to the UNSC to bring up charges of genocide months ago.

I am with you. . . I think calling it "genocide," is probably hyperbolic.

OTH? There has been proof of violations of Minsk I.

Why this has not been brought to the UN? I am sure I do not know. . . I am not a professional international politician.

Putin Recognizes Donbass Independence as Violence Soars​

Putin Recognizes Donbass Independence as Violence Soars

Putin's decision effectively ends Minsk process. Meanwhile, violence escalates in Donbass as Kiev offensive may have begun, reports Joe Lauria. Putin: Kiev 'Puppets' of US Difficult to Verify Size of Kiev Forces on Front Line By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News Russian Presid

consortiumnews.com

". . This map published by the OSCE showing where the explosions have landed clearly indicates that the vast majority of shells have fallen within separatist territory, meaning they originated from the government side.

Nevertheless, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said these attacks are “false flags” hatched by the Russians to justify an invasion. . . "

 

[Mushroom]

Thye still could have attacked the Chinese just a few years later, when they became a world economic power. Sony was founded in 1946. Alongside consumer devices such as TV and video, cameras, and game consoles, the company has introduced various professional audio equipment such as microphones, DATs, MTRs, and effectors.

Toshiba was founded in 1939 by the merger of Shibaura Seisakusho (Shibaura Engineering Works)[15] and Tokyo Denki (Tokyo Electric).

Toyota started in 1933. Nissan started in 1911. Datsun started in 1931.

With what? They were an impoverished nation by then, the war destroyed their economy. For a decade their only export of note was cameras. Until the 1950's when they started to export simple transistor radios.

And come on, really? At that time Toshiba was almost exclusively involved in power generation and lighting.

Toyota? Are you even aware that their product prior to the war was looms? It was the largest producer of mechanical looms for their textile industry. They started to make trucks primarily for their own use in the 1930s, but also for other companies as they were already having problems importing US made trucks. They left the textile industry during the war as their factories were bombed to rubble, and only survived as they were able to get a contract repairing US occupation force vehicles. They did not get back into the vehicle business until the 1950s.

After the war, Nissan was not actually making cars. They were importing pre-war Austin 7 cars from the UK in the crate and just assembling them. And braniac, Nissan is Datsun. They are the same freaking company! Nissan absorbed Datsun in 1933, two years after it was founded. The name Nissan was used for their commercial vehicles, and Datsun for their passenger vehicles. In the 1970's they started to retire the Datsun name, which is what it was known as to most of the world as commercial vehicles were not a big export business for them. I remember 1984 clearly, as that was the final transition year with the cars badge changing from "Datsun" to "Datsun by Nissan" for a single year before Datsun vanished forever.

Sony was entirely post-war, and made consumer audio electronics. They also almost went bankrupt many times until the mid-1970s.

I am surprised you did not bring up Nintendo. Founded in 1889 as a playing card company. Which by the late 1960's expanded to chess boards, go, and other board games. Then in the early 1970s getting involved in the arcade business.

Or Yamaha. Founded in 1887 to make musical instruments. But like Toyota they lost their factories during the war so entered a sideline making copies of a pre-war 2 stroke German motorcycle. But they are still primarily a music company, which is seen as their logo is three tuning forks.

Or Honda, which until January 1945 made piston rings. Yep, that's it, piston rings. Literally a "garage business", but they lost their factory not because of the war but from the Miwaka Earthquake. When the war ended they salvaged what they could, and started to make 50cc engines that could be bolted onto bicycles. That was their only product until 1949 when they finally were able to design their first motorcycle, a 100cc 2 stroke.

Or another loom company, Suzuki. It was number 2 in the loom industry in Japan, behind Toyota. But in 1951 the company almost collapsed when the cotton industry took a nose-dive, so copied Honda and started to make bolt on engines for bicycles. A business Honda had already vacated when they moved to making their own motorcycles.

And they were under US Occupation for almost 7 years. You really do fail big time at history, that is obvious. I guess somehow they were unseen by US Occupation forces swim to China, carrying with them a huge number of 150 and 250 cc motorcycles and take over China.

 

[Ringo]

Do Americans Know Enough About Russia/Ukraine to Support US Involvement ?​

I wish I knew more

 

[Mushroom]

". . This map published by the OSCE showing where the explosions have landed clearly indicates that the vast majority of shells have fallen within separatist territory, meaning they originated from the government side.

Wrong. They were primarily at military checkpoints as set up by the cease-fire agreement and conducted by the separatists. Including the one on that day that struck the pre-school.

 

[MisterBeale]

Wait a minute, are you actually using a show produced by Russia Today, to prove that Ukraine is run by Nazis? He is not a journalist of any kind, he is literally a stand-up comedian that is actually paid by the Russian Government to do a show on their own TV network.

Wow, talk about a fact fail! That is like trusting the Chinese Government to be honest about what has been going on in Hong Kong.

That is a pretty weak argument when you are confronted with information you don't like. . . .



Everyone knows. . . LEE CAMP is all American, writes his own stuff, etc. He pretty much gets to say anything he wants. . . unless it isn't anti-Russian.

On that, I would rather listen to a comedian than a spook & member of the Deep State. You now he isn't going to be pushing for war and will be a bit more objective. . .

 

[MisterBeale]

Wrong. They were primarily at military checkpoints as set up by the cease-fire agreement and conducted by the separatists. Including the one on that day that struck the pre-school.

 

[Colin norris]

You got nothing. Some people say the "genocide by a dictator"

Some people? Like who?
That's bullshit and there is no genocide by Ukrainians.
That is a very poor excuse for you ignoring the slaughter and supporting the communists

is what is being carried out by the Ukraine govt against the Ukraine people, and Russia overthrowing that bad Ukraine govt will be good for the Ukraine people.

You couldn't point to Ukraine on a map now your an expert on policy and government sanction genocide. You know fuckong nothing about the place. Simply, you dont care because you want Biden humiliated. Admit it you gutless prick. You don't have the guts.

If you have any evidence to counter that view, let's hear it. Otherwise stop wasting thread space.

The evidence I have is not one of you people have condemned the invasion. Not one. You are now supporting a dictator in a foreign country. It is not such a leap to repeat that in America. In fact, I'll bet the far right but jobs like you are taking notes.

I dont care if my posts annoy the snot out of you or waste infinite thread space. It's not as if your opinions are taken down in history or written in stone.

You're a very poor excuse for an American. A gutless POS yet you prance around the like a dog with two dicks dispensing knowledge like it's on special at Wal-Mart.
Like all repigs, you know nothing but ignorance and hate. Very low IQ indeed.