JQPublic1
Gold Member
- Aug 10, 2012
- 14,220
- 1,543
I dunno, the "legacy of slavery and Jim Crow" theory simply doesn't hold water, whereas during Jim Crow the black employment rate was much higher (higher than whites at some times) and the out of wedlock birth rate was much much much lower. Poor Asian refugees from Vietnam whose parents never seen the inside of the classroom saw a complete transition from rags to riches in only one generation. Southern California is full of wealthy Vietnamese businessmen today. The culture of Hip Hop you speak of is a counter cultural object. The Africanization of names is a countercultural initiative. Adopting different styles of dress that were never a part of the slave/Jim Crow culture or black history is a countercultural initiative.
The idea is to become different for no other reason than to be different whether it leads to bad outcomes or not. Generally there are two types of cultures in the world. Liberal cultures, who often drop their ills in order to adopt newly learned patterns of behavior from other cultures, and Conservative cultures, who often stringently hold on to their culture (warts and all). Black culture in the United States is largely a conservative culture. That's in part why politically they're one large Democrat voting block whereas more liberal whites tend to have various and different political voting blocks.
The Scottish, when taken over by the British, adopted British technology, culture, and education, shortly before becoming a bastion of philosophy and enlightenment. Certainly they hated the Brits, but they weren't too proud to see that the Brits had a more successful system/culture and adopted it quickly. The Japanese, in the days of Commodore Perry, chose to adopt the successful parts of American culture as opposed to resisting imperialism as so many other countries who got taken over did. They became one of the most powerful countries in the world and won a war against China, Russia, and Korea, and rivaled the US in the Pacific. These were liberal cultures. Blacks in the United States currently lack the capacity to drop their bad habits and adopt good ones for fear of selling out their "blackness." Older generation blacks don't do this of course, but they did when they were younger and they lack the ability to stop subsequent generations from following in their footsteps.
With the mountain of evidence of people both in the United States and abroad who were subjugated and oppressed only to turn around within one generation and realize success, the "Legacy of Jim Crow and Slavery" excuse is a bad one indeed. There are many cultures that are able to break the cycle of poverty and surpass the dominant culture in one generation given the environment enjoyed in the United States. There is no reason that blacks cannot do the same.
The idea that the government needs to "try to do something" even though they're failing is odd to me. part of the reason for the massive out of wedlock birth rate among blacks is that they've become comfortable in their poverty. There are no repercussions financially for someone born poor, never aspired to get out of poverty, and doesn't mind living off of the public dole. Before the rise of the welfare state both whites and blacks experienced a much lower rate of single motherhood. So when do we realize that we're feeding the beast and subsidizing bad behavior? And how do we stop subsidizing bad behavior without starving people to death?
The history of black culture in America covers several centuries The 60's and 70's, though extraordinarily consequential, represents a mere slice. The Great Migration era was in many ways as consequential a period as the civil rights period. You seem to be equating flamboyance with character. People became more flamboyant because the times were flamboyant, and because the freedoms brought about by the early sixties civil rights movement emboldened people. It was the end of the era of the "polite negro", at the same time that the Gandhi influenced King was demonstrating how to leverage the moral high ground into political victory. That path requires intelligence and emotional self-control. The Black Panther path requires anger alone. Styles of dress and naming conventions became ways of expressing defiance and anger. That's all just superficial, though. That defiance and anger have been signature, defining characteristics of Black American culture from the first day a slave was dragged off a ship onto our shores. How could it be otherwise?
The cultural integration of blacks into the mainstream of American society has never fully happened. Segregation remains the rule. Black communities have developed for all economic strata. Most of them are above the poverty line. They're not in the hood, because no one who can afford to get out of the hood doesn't do so. No one who leaves the hood ever looks back.
I don't know these people. They're never reflected in our greater American culture, these 75% of the current black communities in this country. It's only Hip Hop culture I know, both because it is the sole segment of Black culture which receives any attention, and because I worked in inner city neighborhoods for ten years. I don't hesitate to call Hip Hop a culture of failure, the product of dysfunctional people. The same dysfunctional people who are manning the battlements for the Black Lives Matter movement.
As far as the "turnaround" time for cultural degradation goes, I see things a little differently. Islamic culture underwent virtually identical downturns to European culture, barbarian invasion and plague, but European culture recovered and Islamic culture still hasn't recovered. After a thousand years. Cultural continuity is a two edged sword. Without it you have Hip Hop culture, a crazy quilt developed by a displaced people. With it you can perpetuate ignorance and a "loser" mentality. Look at Southern whites. The South went from the richest part of the country to the poorest in four years. And there they remain, 150 years later. There's been some recovery, but it's far from complete. That's cultural degradation too.
Japan is an interesting example. I don't see how you can possibly characterize their pre-Perry culture as "liberal", but it was certainly well developed and technological. It was a rigidly stratified culture and essentially an autocracy. They managed to survive the forced end of their isolation, but it wasn't a smooth transition, nor was their transition to member nation of our world culture a smooth one. They made some bad friends, as I recall. Some bad choices.
So what are you saying, that the 25% of black people in America who represent the absurd, dysfunctional culture of America's permanent underclass are deliberately resisting integration into mainstream culture? That like The Outlaw Josie Wales they simply refuse to surrender to us?
They are simply ignorant, not inherently defiant, and there is no cure for ignorance other than education. Educate and assimilate them and their anger will vanish. Dysfunctional cultures cannot prepare human beings for education. By the time we get them at five years old it's far too late. Ignorant people aren't like those who enjoy the cultural continuity prospective parents receive in successful cultures. It takes a village to raise a child, not a cultural wasteland. A culture which throws baby showers, not a lonely fifteen year old who's not sure who the father is. If parenthood is a disaster, the people produced by that process are ruined before they start. Intervention needs to begin the moment these intellectually deprived people are born.
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The notion that turning unproductive people into productive ones is Communism is pretty funny. Let's cut to the chase. You refuse to abandon the pretexts for your hatreds. Not all black people are dysfunctional. The great majority of them have achieved independence in a remarkably brief time. Some others will need more help than we can give them. It's still in our best interests to figure out how to do it because we're smart and they're ignorant, and they'll never figure it out for themselves. Expecting ignorant people to teach themselves how to be intellectual sophisticates is moronic.
Much worse, and more morally bankrupt, is believing in nature, rather than nurture. Clearly you do, which makes you pointless to talk to. Thugs are not born from their inner, innate blackness, they're made by poor parents and the indifference of fellow villagers like you. People who abandon community values, Christian values, family values. Who pretend to value these things, then mock them.
Yeah, if you believe in trying to turn unproductive thugs into productive citizens, you're a Commie! Brilliant.
I have to wonder if you are aware that millions of White people fall into that "dysfunctional" paradigm you alluded to. Not only are you way off the mark, you don't know how well MOST Blacks are doing in this country. 75% live ABOVE the poverty level and spend 1 Trillion dollars a year in White owned businesses. Some of the other 25% are working poor and an even smaller minority are criminals and thugs. Also consider that about 23 million White people are impoverished in this country. Are you saying they are "ignorant" and need your help too? Of so, why haven't you done it already before trying to help poor Blacks first?
Blacks aren't doing very well in this country...lol.
Why? Because You people have appointed yourself the officious lord high protectors of the black community and constantly defend all the bad behavior conducted by black folks.
Let me tell you about BAD behavior....take a look at who is committing the most CRIME IN METRO COUNTIES:
