Do gays choose to be gay? How can we refuse equal rights?

[Asclepias]

I'd also like to point out to Kondor that the bible was used by people that wanted to maintain a ban on interracial marriage.

It was also used to keep slaves obedient and brainwashed.

 

[Kondor3]

Your book of parables has nothing to do with the laws of this country. Your Church is free to discriminate until they run out of parishioners, the government cannot.

Personally, I don't belong to a Church (or Synagogue or Mosque); I'm what might best be described as a Christian-leaning Agnostic.

But I was raised within a mainstream Christian denominational setting.

And I see the political and economic power of 'Belief' all around me as I walk through life in this country of ours.

You may continue to delude yourself(selves) that Traditional Religious Belief is no longer a force to be reckoned with but it will be nothing more than a delusion and a pleasant fantasy.

Right up to the time that The Reaction hits home.

You are not celebrating the Final Victory of Gay Rights over the traditions and beliefs of the majority.

You are celebrating the Opening Salvo of a legal and political struggle that is likely to drag-on for a great many years and decades.

We are not talking about Race nor other Equivalencies here.

We are talking about behaviors and practices and lifestyles deemed unclean and perverse and detrimental to society, by the sacred writings and traditions and history of mankind.

You can't shove that kind of change down the throats of a majority who can point to such condemnations without getting strong push-back over time, a.k.a. The Reaction.

And it seems highly likely - almost certain - that The Reaction is coming, in strength, and in the not-too-distant future.

So, enjoy The Day, and the Mini-Victories, while they last, because there's a very good chance that they will not end-up being permanent.

Basically, the majority, after being man-handled by the government on your behalf, is likely to be coming for you and yours, in turn, via the legislature, and the law courts, and via executive fiat.

Where there'a a Will, there's a Way, and you have very powerful forces aligned against you, and other fence-sitters beginning to gravitate towards those Keepers of Tradition, in this narrow context...

Your new state of affairs is a very, very, very new thing on the world stage.

Against that is an opposing tradition and canonical prejudice that stretches back for centuries - nay, millenia.

"Don't be too proud of this legalistic marvel that you've created. The power to destroy a sexual-practices barrier at-law is as nothing compared to the power of Religion and History and Tradition and the Best Interests of Society, to compensate for over-sway of the government away from the Will of the People."

I don't think it's over yet... in fact, I think it's just begun...

Time will tell us whether I was right...

I do not wish you-and-yours any particular evil, even though I am not on your side.

I merely show you one possible and very likely future.

 

[P@triot]

Actually i am married to a beautiful woman and we have just celebrated our 12th anniversary.

We were married by Justice of the Peace.

In other words, you didn't actually get married. You just wanted to cohabitate so you could move out of mommy & daddy's home...

You're quibbling over semantics because you have no response to my claims onthe LEGAL basis of marriage.

"Semantics"?!?

There are contracts and then there is marriage. It marriage were a contract, it would be called a contract.



All you're exposing is your inflexible religious brainwashing and your religiously ingrained ignorance and bigotry.

"Religious brainwashing"?

Hey dumb ass, I grew up in a home with zero religion. To this day, I have never seen either of my parents attend a single religious service.

Second, I'm "inflexible" because I recognize marriage for what it is? That's some vintage libtard "logic" there.

I've seen a thousand vows in my day, and never once did they include anything about a contract. Each one of them included things about love, cherish, honor, commitment, etc.

You seem to think marriage only happens in a church the ceremony performed by a clergy.

You are of course wrong but don't let that bother you.

The legal definition of marriage clearly states that it is a contract

That is not the issue here for anyone but you.

Exposing your profound ignorance is both easy and fun....

mar·riage

/ˈmarij/

Noun

1.The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
2.A relationship between married people or the period for which it lasts.

Show me anywhere in this official definition where you see the word "contract" ass-wipe. Furthermore, do you see where it says "typically recognized by law"? Well that completely blows your ignorant theory on "legal contract" out of the water dumb-ass, as a legal contract is ALWAYS recognized by the law you buffoon.

Are you ready to be a big boy yet admit you spoke out of your ass, or is your ignorance only exceeded by your arrogance?

Game. Set. Match bitch....

 

[bodecea]

Your book of parables has nothing to do with the laws of this country. Your Church is free to discriminate until they run out of parishioners, the government cannot.

Personally, I don't belong to a Church (or Synagogue or Mosque); I'm what might best be described as a Christian-leaning Agnostic.

But I was raised within a mainstream Christian denominational setting.

And I see the political and economic power of 'Belief' all around me as I walk through life in this country of ours.

You may continue to delude yourself(selves) that Traditional Religious Belief is no longer a force to be reckoned with but it will be nothing more than a delusion and a pleasant fantasy.

Right up to the time that The Reaction hits home.

You are not celebrating the Final Victory of Gay Rights over the traditions and beliefs of the majority.

You are celebrating the Opening Salvo of a legal and political struggle that is likely to drag-on for a great many years and decades.

We are not talking about Race nor other Equivalencies here.

We are talking about behaviors and practices and lifestyles deemed unclean and perverse and detrimental to society, by the sacred writings and traditions and history of mankind.

You can't shove that kind of change down the throats of a majority who can point to such condemnations without getting strong push-back over time, a.k.a. The Reaction.

And it seems highly likely - almost certain - that The Reaction is coming, in strength, and in the not-too-distant future.

So, enjoy The Day, and the Mini-Victories, while they last, because there's a very good chance that they will not end-up being permanent.

Basically, the majority, after being man-handled by the government on your behalf, is likely to be coming for you and yours, in turn, via the legislature, and the law courts, and via executive fiat.

Where there'a a Will, there's a Way, and you have very powerful forces aligned against you, and other fence-sitters beginning to gravitate towards those Keepers of Tradition, in this narrow context...

Your new state of affairs is a very, very, very new thing on the world stage.

Against that is an opposing tradition and canonical prejudice that stretches back for centuries - nay, millenia.

"Don't be too proud of this legalistic marvel that you've created. The power to destroy a sexual-practices barrier at-law is as nothing compared to the power of Religion and History and Tradition and the Best Interests of Society, to compensate for over-sway of the government away from the Will of the People."

I don't think it's over yet... in fact, I think it's just begun...

Time will tell us whether I was right...

I do not wish you-and-yours any particular evil, even though I am not on your side.

I merely show you one possible and very likely future.

Hmmmm...sounds a little like a threat.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Hmmmm...sounds a little like a threat."

No, it sounds a LOT like a threat.

To be executed in the law-courts and the legislature and the executive office.

It seems to me that a Reaction is inevitable.

And that that Reaction will be massive, and very powerful in nature, and, quite possibly, decisive.

All within the boundaries of The Law, mind you.

But I smell a Reaction coming.

Beginning, quite possibly, with the next time that Conservatives gain power.

As they very possibly may, after 8 years of Fearless Leader and the vision of a Democratic People's Socialist Republic of America, and the social-engineering programming nightmare called ObamaCare.

Any such Reaction will, indeed, prove very threatening, to The Life, and its adherents and groupies, and it will have the support of huge numbers of Americans of all religious beliefs.

Hell... people are so repelled by Gay practices that the Reaction may very well include a change to the Constitution itself, so as to preclude SCOTUS from shooting-down any related laws as UNconstitutional...

As I said... where there's a Will, there's a Way, and, if they want it badly enough, it'll happen...

Again... time will tell us that story.

 

[bodecea]

"...Hmmmm...sounds a little like a threat."

No, it sounds a LOT like a threat.

To be executed in the law-courts and the legislature and the executive office.

It seems to me that a Reaction is inevitable.

And that that Reaction will be massive, and very powerful in nature, and, quite possibly, decisive.

All within the boundaries of The Law, mind you.

But I smell a Reaction coming.

Beginning, quite possibly, with the next time that Conservatives gain power.

As they very possibly may, after 8 years of Fearless Leader and the vision of a Democratic People's Socialist Republic of America.

And that will, indeed, prove very threatening, to The Life, and its adherents and groupies.

As I said... time will tell us that story.

Fascinating. I guess a little like the Straight version of the KKK, eh?

 

[Kondor3]

"...Fascinating. I guess a little like the Straight version of the KKK, eh?"

Call it whatever you like... the more you denigrate the legitimate feelings and positions of the vast majority of folks who do NOT share your atypical and unnatural behaviors and practices, the more enemies and adversaries and opponents you make...

And the beauty of that is, YOU are doing THEIR job FOR them... mustering and focusing additional resistance and resentment...

And it's not like you can control yourself and prevent that from happening... you (your bunch stereotypically) don't have that in you... you can't help yourselves.

It's a Win-Win situation for your adversaries...

Get used to the idea of having a (legalistic and political) target on your chest, 'cause I think your next-round judgment-time's-a-comin', and that fairly quickly, as history measures time...

 

[bodecea]

"...Fascinating. I guess a little like the Straight version of the KKK, eh?"

Call it whatever you like... the more you denigrate the legitimate feelings and positions of the vast majority of folks who do NOT share your atypical and unnatural behaviors and practices, the more enemies and adversaries and opponents you make...

And the beauty of that is, YOU are doing THEIR job FOR them... mustering and focusing additional resistance and resentment...

It's a Win-Win situation for your adversaries...

Get used to the idea of having a (legalistic and political) target on your chest, 'cause I think your times-a-comin', and that fairly quickly, as history measures time...

So.....you are mad that gay people exist and want the same rights as any other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen? A bummer, dude. A real bummer you don't get to oppress people you find icky.

 

[Kondor3]

"...So.....you are mad that gay people exist and want the same rights as any other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen? A bummer, dude. A real bummer you don't get to oppress people you find icky."

Stale amateur-hour bait you're usin' there, darlin'... and I ain't bitin' on that embarrassingly juvenile hook.

As I said, you cannot control and help yourselves, in this respect.

I merely demonstrate to you that this struggle for the Soul of America has only begun, and that your own recent and modest victories may very be overturned and set aside, as the Reaction to those victories grow in the Heartland, and in the next crop of victorious Conservative political leadership...

And, of course, thank you for the time... I enjoyed the exchange.

 

[bodecea]

"...So.....you are mad that gay people exist and want the same rights as any other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen? A bummer, dude. A real bummer you don't get to oppress people you find icky."

Stale amateur-hour bait you're usin' there, darlin'... and I ain't bitin' on that embarrassingly juvenile hook.

As I said, you cannot control and help yourselves, in this respect.

I merely demonstrate to you that this struggle for the Soul of America has only begun, and that your own recent and modest victories may very be overturned and set aside, as the Reaction to those victories grow in the Heartland, and in the next crop of victorious Conservative political leadership...

And, of course, thank you for the time... I enjoyed the exchange.

"Soul of America".........fascinating. The Soul of America, if there is one, is whatever will make money......and it has been for a very very long time.

As for the Heartland, as more and more Americans in the Heartland realize that they too have gay family and friends, their eyes open and they actually...........grow up.

The whiny "gays are icky" crowd are dying off............not much there for the Reactionary Loonies to deal with....just look at the Heartland's reaction to the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[sfcalifornia]

"...Fascinating. I guess a little like the Straight version of the KKK, eh?"

Call it whatever you like... the more you denigrate the legitimate feelings and positions of the vast majority of folks who do NOT share your atypical and unnatural behaviors and practices, the more enemies and adversaries and opponents you make...

And the beauty of that is, YOU are doing THEIR job FOR them... mustering and focusing additional resistance and resentment...

And it's not like you can control yourself and prevent that from happening... you (your bunch stereotypically) don't have that in you... you can't help yourselves.

It's a Win-Win situation for your adversaries...

Get used to the idea of having a (legalistic and political) target on your chest, 'cause I think your next-round judgment-time's-a-comin', and that fairly quickly, as history measures time...

Bullshit.

The only thing which will muster and foster over time is the lunatic fringe group, hell-bent on hate.

And what do you know about legitimate feelings?

Why is it always the ones who aren't gay who think they know everything about being gay?

Truth is, you know jack.

 

[shintao]

"Religious brainwashing"?

Hey dumb ass, I grew up in a home with zero religion. To this day, I have never seen either of my parents attend a single religious service.

Second, I'm "inflexible" because I recognize marriage for what it is? That's some vintage libtard "logic" there.

I've seen a thousand vows in my day, and never once did they include anything about a contract. Each one of them included things about love, cherish, honor, commitment, etc.

You seem to think marriage only happens in a church the ceremony performed by a clergy.

You are of course wrong but don't let that bother you.

The legal definition of marriage clearly states that it is a contract

That is not the issue here for anyone but you.

Exposing your profound ignorance is both easy and fun....

mar·riage

/ˈmarij/

Noun

1.The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
2.A relationship between married people or the period for which it lasts.

Show me anywhere in this official definition where you see the word "contract" ass-wipe. Furthermore, do you see where it says "typically recognized by law"? Well that completely blows your ignorant theory on "legal contract" out of the water dumb-ass, as a legal contract is ALWAYS recognized by the law you buffoon.

Are you ready to be a big boy yet admit you spoke out of your ass, or is your ignorance only exceeded by your arrogance?

Game. Set. Match bitch....

Hmm, seems that definition will be going out the window in the not to far distant future. Oh! Look thar!!! It has arrived!!!! You will be ignorant no more!!! LMAO!!


mar·riage/ˈmærɪdʒ/ Show Spelled [mar-ij] Show IPA
noun
1. a legally, religiously, or socially sanctioned union of persons who commit to one another, forming a familial and economic bond: Anthropologists say that some type of marriage has been found in every society, past and present.
2. a. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
b. a similar institution involving partners of the same gender, as in gay marriage; same-sex marriage .
3. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: They have a happy marriage. Synonyms: matrimony. Antonyms: single life, bachelorhood, spinsterhood, singleness.
4. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. Synonyms: nuptials, marriage ceremony, wedding. Antonyms: divorce, annulment.
5. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage.

Marriage | Define Marriage at Dictionary.com

mar·riage noun \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
CloseStyle: MLA APA ChicagoDefinition of MARRIAGE
1a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage

 

[Plasmaball]

The ignorance is all yours. The FACTS of higher than normal drug abuse; suicide rates; sexually transmitted diseases; multiple sex partners etc. are ALL indicators of an unhappy lifestyle- this is not imaginary, but factual.

The stats you post claim a "less" likely...and the stats are NOT that favorable for so called "acceptance" by others. Suicide rates are always higher in teenage populations than adult ones. But Suicide rates in adult homosexuals is also higher than normal. I am sure it is easier for homosexuals during the brief years they are teenagers if they are not being bullied...but that goes for straight teenagers as well.

The FACT of the matter however is that the destructive behaviors homosexuals engage in continues at a higher than normal rate of their straight counterparts throughout their lives!

There is no denial of equal rights...no matter how many times you say there is. What the homosexual community wants are "special" rights based on their sexual preferences. Nothing will satisfy the real issue- which is their sexual deviation from the norm.

Again NO Constitutional right is being denied...though it is an obvious push to make marriage a Constitutional right- it does not actually exist.

Lol again scotus ruled you are wrong. They are being denied rights.

This attempt to reverse the issue isnt going to work. You are wrong, and society sooner or later will shun people like you. They will have a good reason too.

If society shuns people who have a moral and ethical compass, then society is doomed.

A society of "anything goes" is a doomed society. History proves it.

no, not its not...you fucking simpleton.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Why some of these folks think that they are not in anyway supportive of Westbro Baptist Church, while spouting their bigotry about "depraved, abnormal people committing abominations" is beyond me.

 

[deltex1]

"If God made 'em that way, how can the Bible say its wrong? Why'd he make 'em that way?" It was the best argument I've heard.

Living in Santa Monica and driving through West Hollywood, (Boy's Town) twice a day, and working in the entertainment industry, I know a lot of GLBTQ people, and interact with them every day. Sometimes I think we in California are way ahead of the rest of the nation in understanding GLBTQ people. And, to be honest anyone out there who did not do some "experimenting" at puberty is either lying or is maladjusted today.

It is my opinion that somehow I was attracted to my wife as a person, (it may have been chemistry), that developed into love. Her flip attitude about life, and her insulting politics have kept me mesmerized for seven years. I did not make a choice, I went with the flow. I think love is a natural thing. I don't think we choose sex or sexual orientation, I think it chooses us.

​

God makes us in all kinds of ways...with all sorts of proclivities...and then He theoretically gave us the same set of guidelines regardless of different proclivities...the nuns described them as "crosses to bear on the journey to heaven". Hallelujah!!!

 

[LittleNipper]

"...Fascinating. I guess a little like the Straight version of the KKK, eh?"

Call it whatever you like... the more you denigrate the legitimate feelings and positions of the vast majority of folks who do NOT share your atypical and unnatural behaviors and practices, the more enemies and adversaries and opponents you make...

And the beauty of that is, YOU are doing THEIR job FOR them... mustering and focusing additional resistance and resentment...

It's a Win-Win situation for your adversaries...

Get used to the idea of having a (legalistic and political) target on your chest, 'cause I think your times-a-comin', and that fairly quickly, as history measures time...

So.....you are mad that gay people exist and want the same rights as any other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen? A bummer, dude. A real bummer you don't get to oppress people you find icky.

Tell us what it is that homosexuality accomplishes for the general good of the entire society.

 

[bucs90]

Call it whatever you like... the more you denigrate the legitimate feelings and positions of the vast majority of folks who do NOT share your atypical and unnatural behaviors and practices, the more enemies and adversaries and opponents you make...

And the beauty of that is, YOU are doing THEIR job FOR them... mustering and focusing additional resistance and resentment...

It's a Win-Win situation for your adversaries...

Get used to the idea of having a (legalistic and political) target on your chest, 'cause I think your times-a-comin', and that fairly quickly, as history measures time...

So.....you are mad that gay people exist and want the same rights as any other law-abiding, tax-paying citizen? A bummer, dude. A real bummer you don't get to oppress people you find icky.

Tell us what it is that homosexuality accomplishes for the general good of the entire society.

Its thinking like that which caused laws against oral sex in states like South Carolina. Still stands too. That's right. BJ's are illegal in SC and other states, although never enforced.

Apparently, some RW folks back in the day thought it had no positive contribution to society, so they banned it.


But, let me ask you this: Tell me what the severely mentally disabled accomplish for the general good of the entire society?

Do you have a plan on what to do with them, too?

 

[RMKnight]

Wow! I must be less open in my sexuality than I thought.

I am male. I am Moderately Republican.

I could never choose to be with a man. In fact, it wouldn't be physically possible.

It seems several believe they could make that choice.

 

[shintao]

The ignorance is all yours. The FACTS of higher than normal drug abuse; suicide rates; sexually transmitted diseases; multiple sex partners etc. are ALL indicators of an unhappy lifestyle- this is not imaginary, but factual.

The stats you post claim a "less" likely...and the stats are NOT that favorable for so called "acceptance" by others. Suicide rates are always higher in teenage populations than adult ones. But Suicide rates in adult homosexuals is also higher than normal. I am sure it is easier for homosexuals during the brief years they are teenagers if they are not being bullied...but that goes for straight teenagers as well.

The FACT of the matter however is that the destructive behaviors homosexuals engage in continues at a higher than normal rate of their straight counterparts throughout their lives!

There is no denial of equal rights...no matter how many times you say there is. What the homosexual community wants are "special" rights based on their sexual preferences. Nothing will satisfy the real issue- which is their sexual deviation from the norm.

Again NO Constitutional right is being denied...though it is an obvious push to make marriage a Constitutional right- it does not actually exist.

Lol again scotus ruled you are wrong. They are being denied rights.

This attempt to reverse the issue isnt going to work. You are wrong, and society sooner or later will shun people like you. They will have a good reason too.

If society shuns people who have a moral and ethical compass, then society is doomed.

A society of "anything goes" is a doomed society. History proves it.

XXXXXXX. All these doomed countrys had one thing in common, religion!!!!

 

[bodecea]

Why some of these folks think that they are not in anyway supportive of Westbro Baptist Church, while spouting their bigotry about "depraved, abnormal people committing abominations" is beyond me.

They were fully supportive....until the WBC started picketing military funerals. Suddenly the shoe was on the other foot. If the WBC went back to just gay funerals, they'd be back on the bandwagon.