Do gays choose to be gay? How can we refuse equal rights?

[Bumberclyde]

That's all it is.

There is nothing divine or sacred about marriage.

It's a property contract that is granted special rights and privileges that is all.

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

The bible (which discusses marriage endlessly) is NOT a law book genius.

A clergyman who performs a wedding is NOT an attorney genius.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

You are talking about the church side of the marriage discussion (which is separate from the public debate). This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, as (no one) to my knowledge is trying to force churches to marry gay individuals.

The church is a private institution and can do what it wants (and it should stay that way).

But when it comes to the public sphere, marriage IS just a social contract.

The church won't marry gays, yet you have to be gay to preach in a Catholic church. What would Jesus say?

 

[P@triot]

Well, did god make them that way, and does it matter one way or the other as to their rights? I say they were born that way, there is no god, and they do deserve equal rights under the laws of America. As to pedophiles, it is a crime according to our societys rules. Being homo is not a crime. So apples & oranges.

He's not talking about what is legal. You claim "God made homo's that way so we should support them. And he correctly pointed out "God made pedophiles too" (illustrating the monumental flaw in your "logic"). It is 100% apples-to-apples. Stop running like a coward. If you can't answer the question, then you really need to examine your stance on the issue.

AND.......another one who cannot see the difference between consent and hurting others.

AND.......another disingenuous libtard who has to change the subject when losing the debate.

Again, nobody said anything about "consent vs hurting". You morons said "God made us that way". That's your argument. The response was "God made pedophiles too, so should we support them".

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why are you even weighing in when you have no fucking clue what marriage even is? You actually believe marriage is a "social contract"?

You're really taking ignorance to new heights with your comments in this thread...

That's all it is.

There is nothing divine or sacred about marriage.

It's a property contract that is granted special rights and privileges that is all.

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

Not everyone gets married in a church you idiot.

The bible (which discusses marriage endlessly) is NOT a law book genius.

A clergyman who performs a wedding is NOT an attorney genius.

A clergy man says, "By the powers vested in me by the state of _______ I now pronounce you husband and wife."

And IMO the state should not be granting legal powers to a religious official.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

The marriage license is the contract.

 

[P@triot]

Anyone see Stephen Colbert last night? They went to Vicco, Kentucky. Smallest town in KY. They have a gay mayor, and just passed a "fairness ordinance" regarding gays. The townsfolk were what you'd expect. Rural, country, deep drawl accents. But surprisingly- or not- they were mostly all in favor of it, and supportive of their mayor. One guy....who was a bit slow speaking and country, nothing wrong with that- put it so clearly and simple: "If God made 'em that way, how can the Bible say its wrong? Why'd he make 'em that way?" It was the best argument I've heard.

So, let me ask, did God make them that way? If so, how can He, or we, judge them?

Now, lets say you are gonna argue God did NOT make them that way. That they CHOSE. That would mean the rest of use CHOSE to be attracted to women, right? Wouldn't that suggest that gays and straights- like all you right wingers who oppose gay rights- have a 50/50 attraction to men/women, and you too just chose the opposite sex?

And as for God...does he make us or not? If our rights cannot be granted by the government, but instead, are "God given"....................like the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms..........and God makes us, then why is it that God made some humans to be born in a country where His rights are granted, but condemns other humans he makes to be born in places like N Korea that deny the rights that are God given by Him?

Unless you want to argue God created the world, but, then stepped away and let nature and humanity run it's course, and therefore, doesn't interfere with genetic deformities, mental illness, birth defects, OR things like a human being born with a sexual attraction to the same sex.

if your argument is *GOD MADE THEM THAT WAY * so we should give them equal rights
well then *GOD MADE PEDIFILES THAT WAY *so we should give them equal rights to

Well, did god make them that way, and does it matter one way or the other as to their rights? I say they were born that way, there is no god, and they do deserve equal rights under the laws of America. As to pedophiles, it is a crime according to our societys rules. Being homo is not a crime. So apples & oranges.

Hey genius, legality is not some divine entity beyond our control.

We control what are laws say and we could make "being homo" a crime. Just like we could make being a pedophile legal (and we will if Dumbocrats have their way).

You're entire argument is so weak and pathetic. "But being homo is not a crime". Yeah, well, we can change that quickly and make it a crime. Would you then oppose "being homo"?

 

[Seawytch]

He's not talking about what is legal. You claim "God made homo's that way so we should support them. And he correctly pointed out "God made pedophiles too" (illustrating the monumental flaw in your "logic"). It is 100% apples-to-apples. Stop running like a coward. If you can't answer the question, then you really need to examine your stance on the issue.

AND.......another one who cannot see the difference between consent and hurting others.

AND.......another disingenuous libtard who has to change the subject when losing the debate.

Again, nobody said anything about "consent vs hurting". You morons said "God made us that way". That's your argument. The response was "God made pedophiles too, so should we support them".

Didn't god make everything? One act is criminal, one is not.

 

[P@triot]

That's all it is.

There is nothing divine or sacred about marriage.

It's a property contract that is granted special rights and privileges that is all.

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

Not everyone gets married in a church you idiot.

The bible (which discusses marriage endlessly) is NOT a law book genius.

A clergyman who performs a wedding is NOT an attorney genius.

A clergy man says, "By the powers vested in me by the state of _______ I now pronounce you husband and wife."

And IMO the state should not be granting legal powers to a religious official.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

The marriage license is the contract.

Listen - we get it. You're a lonely, single, atheist asshole. It doesn't change the fact that marriage is not a "contract" ass-swipe.

First of all, the fact that it's called MARRIAGE and not your PROPERTY CONTRACT should be a big clue (to anyone with an IQ above 09).

Second, instead of marriage counseling, it would be called contract counseling.

Third, instead of a "wedding" they would have a "contract signing".

I could go on all day, but this is more than enough to expose your ignorance and dismiss your senseless bullshit.

 

[P@triot]

AND.......another one who cannot see the difference between consent and hurting others.

AND.......another disingenuous libtard who has to change the subject when losing the debate.

Again, nobody said anything about "consent vs hurting". You morons said "God made us that way". That's your argument. The response was "God made pedophiles too, so should we support them".

Didn't god make everything? One act is criminal, one is not.

So as long as we make being gay criminal (which could easily be done tomorrow), then you'll no longer support gay marriage?

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

Not everyone gets married in a church you idiot.



A clergy man says, "By the powers vested in me by the state of _______ I now pronounce you husband and wife."

And IMO the state should not be granting legal powers to a religious official.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

The marriage license is the contract.

Listen - we get it. You're a lonely, single, atheist asshole. It doesn't change the fact that marriage is not a "contract" ass-swipe.

Actually i am married to a beautiful woman and we have just celebrated our 12th anniversary.

We were married by Justice of the Peace.

First of all, the fact that it's called MARRIAGE and not your PROPERTY CONTRACT should be a big clue (to anyone with an IQ above 09).

Second, instead of marriage counseling, it would be called contract counseling.

You're quibbling over semantics because you have no response to my claims onthe LEGAL basis of marriage.

Third, instead of a "wedding" they would have a "contract signing".

I could go on all day, but this is more than enough to expose your ignorance and dismiss your senseless bullshit.

All you're exposing is your inflexible religious brainwashing and your religiously ingrained ignorance and bigotry.

 

[P@triot]

Not everyone gets married in a church you idiot.



A clergy man says, "By the powers vested in me by the state of _______ I now pronounce you husband and wife."

And IMO the state should not be granting legal powers to a religious official.

The marriage license is the contract.

Listen - we get it. You're a lonely, single, atheist asshole. It doesn't change the fact that marriage is not a "contract" ass-swipe.

Actually i am married to a beautiful woman and we have just celebrated our 12th anniversary.

We were married by Justice of the Peace.

In other words, you didn't actually get married. You just wanted to cohabitate so you could move out of mommy & daddy's home...

First of all, the fact that it's called MARRIAGE and not your PROPERTY CONTRACT should be a big clue (to anyone with an IQ above 09).

Second, instead of marriage counseling, it would be called contract counseling.

You're quibbling over semantics because you have no response to my claims onthe LEGAL basis of marriage.

"Semantics"?!?

There are contracts and then there is marriage. It marriage were a contract, it would be called a contract.

Third, instead of a "wedding" they would have a "contract signing".

I could go on all day, but this is more than enough to expose your ignorance and dismiss your senseless bullshit.

All you're exposing is your inflexible religious brainwashing and your religiously ingrained ignorance and bigotry.

"Religious brainwashing"?

Hey dumb ass, I grew up in a home with zero religion. To this day, I have never seen either of my parents attend a single religious service.

Second, I'm "inflexible" because I recognize marriage for what it is? That's some vintage libtard "logic" there.

I've seen a thousand vows in my day, and never once did they include anything about a contract. Each one of them included things about love, cherish, honor, commitment, etc.

 

[bodecea]

Why are you even weighing in when you have no fucking clue what marriage even is? You actually believe marriage is a "social contract"?

You're really taking ignorance to new heights with your comments in this thread...

That's all it is.

There is nothing divine or sacred about marriage.

It's a property contract that is granted special rights and privileges that is all.

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

The bible (which discusses marriage endlessly) is NOT a law book genius.

A clergyman who performs a wedding is NOT an attorney genius.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

So...anyone who does not marry in a church isn't really married.......to Rottie.

 

[Vandalshandle]

That's all it is.

There is nothing divine or sacred about marriage.

It's a property contract that is granted special rights and privileges that is all.

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

The bible (which discusses marriage endlessly) is NOT a law book genius.

A clergyman who performs a wedding is NOT an attorney genius.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

So...anyone who does not marry in a church isn't really married.......to Rottie.

This is distressing news, because I married two women, but not in church. I could have saved the costs of getting divorces, since I wasn't even married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The good news is that I know longer have to concern myself about getting married, since I never go to church!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Listen - we get it. You're a lonely, single, atheist asshole. It doesn't change the fact that marriage is not a "contract" ass-swipe.

Actually i am married to a beautiful woman and we have just celebrated our 12th anniversary.

We were married by Justice of the Peace.

In other words, you didn't actually get married. You just wanted to cohabitate so you could move out of mommy & daddy's home...

You're quibbling over semantics because you have no response to my claims onthe LEGAL basis of marriage.

"Semantics"?!?

There are contracts and then there is marriage. It marriage were a contract, it would be called a contract.

Third, instead of a "wedding" they would have a "contract signing".

I could go on all day, but this is more than enough to expose your ignorance and dismiss your senseless bullshit.

All you're exposing is your inflexible religious brainwashing and your religiously ingrained ignorance and bigotry.

"Religious brainwashing"?

Hey dumb ass, I grew up in a home with zero religion. To this day, I have never seen either of my parents attend a single religious service.

Second, I'm "inflexible" because I recognize marriage for what it is? That's some vintage libtard "logic" there.

I've seen a thousand vows in my day, and never once did they include anything about a contract. Each one of them included things about love, cherish, honor, commitment, etc.

You seem to think marriage only happens in a church the ceremony performed by a clergy.

You are of course wrong but don't let that bother you.

The legal definition of marriage clearly states that it is a contract

That is not the issue here for anyone but you.

 

[Plasmaball]

You shut the fuck up you loud mouthed moron. Cultures that change in this way have historically come to ruin.

No one has denied anyone "basic" rights!~ This kind of emotional BS is typical idiocy from liberals.

AGAIN- homosexuals experience higher than normal disease; suicides; drug abuse; multiple sexual partners; depression; etc...THESE are FACTS. All the cum-bye-ya BS attempts to make their sexual orientation "normal" will never fucking work.

WHY? because deep down inside these are not "GAY" people...they are broken people.

The sad fact of the matter is that good research' therapy and progress towards real help has been hand-capped and stifled in the race to normalize the abnormal!

no cultures fall to ruins for a whole host of reasons you simpleminded fuck, not because they let the gays marry or be together.

Basic rights? thats why Scotus disagreed with you recently huh? That a gay couple was denied their basic rights when one of them fell ill. This is how fucking stupid you are. You need to find the tiniest sliver of a "basic right" in order to use that weak as shit argument.

" Oh looky here, these gays still have the right to own a gun! nobody is stopping their basic rights....Tee har!" You fucking backwards thinking rodent. I would call you an ape, but i dont want to insult apes. They are much higher on the intelligence level than you. Fucking weakass argument from a weak person.

Yes you feel they are facts that justify your bigotry. Blacks have a higher rate of diabetes, that doesn't make them any less inferior. Broken people? Fuck you, you herpe infested twat of a woman. Broken, coming from a mentally retarded person.

Abnormal? the only abnormal one is you. Fuck i can not wait for your kind to just die off and let the rest of us move on with society. You are literally holding society back. You disgusting troll of a woman. I am embarrassed to be of the same species as you.

this is what the internet has brought about. It has made opinions like yours, normal. To have equal weight as a respected opinion. You are trash and should be treated as trash. You are about as clever as a lump of shit my cats took in the litter box.

I don't have "bigotry" about or towards homosexuals- your attempt to ignore the facts I raised and instead go to the racist; bigot; insert label in order to avoid dealing with facts lazy assed moron move, does not win the argument raised.

No, with regards to sexuality- the homosexual is a deviation from the norm- Again, a biological; physiological and psychological FACT. All of your moronic babbling to the contrary is nothing more than PC rhetoric and does not make homosexuality normal.

The FACTS again are that the so called community of homosexuals are not prospering emotionally, physically, or relationally. All of the attempts of a liberal society to try and "normalize" homosexuals will not make them GAY people...they will always, deep down, be a broken person using sexual gratification and destructive behavior in an attempt to satisfy...but it will be as unrewarding post gay marriage as it was prior. THAT was the point of the young mans story he shared.

When only 9 million of more than 300 million US citizens fall into the sexually deviant population (which includes lesbians; homosexuals; transgendered etc.) We can refer to an abnormal deviation. Extrapolated over an entire global population we can still see the deviation.

You are an idiot and should be treated like the idiot you are...OH WAIT you ARE treated like the moronic idiot you present yourself as!

i said i am dismissing your "facts" because they are irrelevant to the idea of rights.

Ah more of this silly not normal argument, that never really works at all.

the simple fact is you want to keep people from having certain rights because you are a bigot.

 

[Plasmaball]

You’re on the side of hate, fear, and ignorance.

No, I am exactly where I said I am. The only ignorance is displayed by posters such as yourself who cannot address points and facts raised by those who see this issue differently.

This makes YOU the hateful ignorant bigots- not me.

Try a little research- honest clinical research.

An Open Secret: The Truth About Gay Male Couples - Joseph Nicolosi

Nonsense.

You’re attempting to contrive an argument that because the ‘gay lifestyle’ is ‘dangerous’ homosexuals should be denied their Constitutional rights and subject to punitive measures.

You’re a hateful, ignorant authoritarian, typical of most on the right.

exactly. Under her opinion we should be able to deny people rights if they do meth.

 

[Plasmaball]

No, I am exactly where I said I am. The only ignorance is displayed by posters such as yourself who cannot address points and facts raised by those who see this issue differently.

This makes YOU the hateful ignorant bigots- not me.

Try a little research- honest clinical research.

An Open Secret: The Truth About Gay Male Couples - Joseph Nicolosi

Nonsense.

You’re attempting to contrive an argument that because the ‘gay lifestyle’ is ‘dangerous’ homosexuals should be denied their Constitutional rights and subject to punitive measures.

You’re a hateful, ignorant authoritarian, typical of most on the right.

I never said any such thing.

What I said, is that idiotic emotionally charged PC attempts at :making normal" an abnormal deviation, would not make homosexuals gay (content) people. That they are, deep down, a broken person.

Their lifestyle is harmful DUE to the fact of its abnormality and psychological depravity.

It might make you feel good to support "gay marriage" but it does not, and will not, fix the brokenness inside a homosexual. Indeed all of the outward trappings such as marriage to attempt normalization, has caused more harm as it will never give them a true feeling of normalcy. Numerous studies have been done that have proven this- and yet the PC crowd pushes on.

There are no constitutional rights denied any person because they are homosexual. That is a canard tossed about on this issue from either ignorance or idiocy.

Scotus says you are wrong. Again you are on the wrong side of history and eventually ( soon) you wont matter anymore ( opinion, not that it does now)

The idea you are trying to use an emotional " its destructive" argument is a rather weak one at best. No courtroom would find it a valued argument.

 

[Kondor3]

That's OK...

Political control changes...

Legal opinions change...

Legal interpretations change...

SCOTUS rulings change...

Laws change...

Look at Roe v. Wade...

Decades after the fact, and just when ya'll thought that the concept was safely entrenched as acceptable in the Collective American Psyche...

Individual States have been chipping-away at Roe v Wade for the past couple of years...

When The People at-large feel strongly enough about something...

They find a way to largely cancel it out on the State level...

Placeholders, awaiting that Happy Day when the matter is once again corrected on the broader level...

The SCOTUS opinion du jour aside...

It will prove difficult to SUSTAIN Gay Rights in an ostensibly secular nation populated by such a hugely atypical percentage of adherents to religious belief-systems...

Ancient and much-beloved and revered belief-systems which view homosexuality as filthy and perverse and sinful and unnatural and as detrimental to society and The Republic...

Enjoy the present spate of favorable outcomes and victories... something tells me that they are neither permanent nor long for this world, as history measures time...

 

[thanatos144]

Gays should have the same rights as everyone else.

They do

 

[thanatos144]

Gays should have the same rights as everyone else.

They already do, and always have.

The problem rests with those who seek to deny homosexuals their rights.

No one is denying them shit try to stop being a dishonest hack

 

[clevergirl]

Nonsense.

You’re attempting to contrive an argument that because the ‘gay lifestyle’ is ‘dangerous’ homosexuals should be denied their Constitutional rights and subject to punitive measures.

You’re a hateful, ignorant authoritarian, typical of most on the right.

I never said any such thing.

What I said, is that idiotic emotionally charged PC attempts at :making normal" an abnormal deviation, would not make homosexuals gay (content) people. That they are, deep down, a broken person.

Their lifestyle is harmful DUE to the fact of its abnormality and psychological depravity.

Being gay isn't "harmful" you bigoted fuck.

Do you know why gays are often more likely to attempt suicide or experiment with drugs?

The findings, published online today in Pediatrics, showed that lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) teens living in counties with a high proportion of gay and lesbian couples, and those who went to schools with gay-straight alliances and anti-discrimination policies, were less likely to attempt suicide than LGB teens living in less accepting environments.​

Social environment linked to gay teen suicide risk

It might make you feel good to support "gay marriage" but it does not, and will not, fix the brokenness inside a homosexual. Indeed all of the outward trappings such as marriage to attempt normalization, has caused more harm as it will never give them a true feeling of normalcy. Numerous studies have been done that have proven this- and yet the PC crowd pushes on.

We already feel normal now, we just want the equal rights that go along with our feelings.

There are no constitutional rights denied any person because they are homosexual. That is a canard tossed about on this issue from either ignorance or idiocy.

Not all rights are enumerated in the Constitution, surely you're aware of that right? The Supreme Court of the United States of America has declared marriage a fundamental right on no less than three occasions. In order to keep a group of people (for whom you feel great animus toward) from accessing such a fundamental right, you must be able to demonstrate a societal harm in allowing them. You can't.

The ignorance is all yours. The FACTS of higher than normal drug abuse; suicide rates; sexually transmitted diseases; multiple sex partners etc. are ALL indicators of an unhappy lifestyle- this is not imaginary, but factual.

The stats you post claim a "less" likely...and the stats are NOT that favorable for so called "acceptance" by others. Suicide rates are always higher in teenage populations than adult ones. But Suicide rates in adult homosexuals is also higher than normal. I am sure it is easier for homosexuals during the brief years they are teenagers if they are not being bullied...but that goes for straight teenagers as well.

The FACT of the matter however is that the destructive behaviors homosexuals engage in continues at a higher than normal rate of their straight counterparts throughout their lives!

There is no denial of equal rights...no matter how many times you say there is. What the homosexual community wants are "special" rights based on their sexual preferences. Nothing will satisfy the real issue- which is their sexual deviation from the norm.

Again NO Constitutional right is being denied...though it is an obvious push to make marriage a Constitutional right- it does not actually exist.

 

[thanatos144]

No, that's not what marriage is you buffoon.

The church is NOT a court room genius.

The bible (which discusses marriage endlessly) is NOT a law book genius.

A clergyman who performs a wedding is NOT an attorney genius.

Please refrain from speaking about "property contracts" when you know about as much about the law as my 4-year old does.

If marriage was anything even remotely close to your ignorant claim, then there would be no vows, no guests, no exchange of rings, etc. It would be 2 people sitting down with an attorney and signing contracts.

You are talking about the church side of the marriage discussion (which is separate from the public debate). This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, as (no one) to my knowledge is trying to force churches to marry gay individuals.

The church is a private institution and can do what it wants (and it should stay that way).

But when it comes to the public sphere, marriage IS just a social contract.

The church won't marry gays, yet you have to be gay to preach in a Catholic church. What would Jesus say?

What a disgusting post.... Thanks for showing that it is you liberals with the true hate.