Do Muslims believe in the separation of Church and State?

[Sunni Man]

Ahhh, so you've taken me off ignore. Good. Care to elaborate on what precisely is bs? Thank you in advance.

Urban Dictionary: BS

 

[Tilly]

Ahhh, so you've taken me off ignore. Good. Care to elaborate on what precisely is bs? Thank you in advance.

Urban Dictionary: BS

Would you care to elaborate on what is BS? Thanks.

 

[JQPublic1]

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

no

That's still an incredibly small number and the only way for people to harass you over your faith is if you tell them

Do you agree there may be many more Muslims in the military due to underreporting..for the reasons I have already stated?

How can one know?

Precisely, that is why I formed the question by including the word "may." Logically, some those 400,000 soldiers who did not report their faith would have to be Muslims. And I suspect that those that are do present clues as to their hidden faith by habits and through their surnames. But other than those few clues...you are right...How can one know?

 

[Two Thumbs]

wow, that's a tiny number

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

no

That's still an incredibly small number and the only way for people to harass you over your faith is if you tell them

Do you agree there may be many more Muslims in the military due to underreporting..for the reasons I have already stated?

Unlikely since serving in the military would be great pr

and I never identified

 

[Agit8r]

From what I know of Islam, there does not seem to be a discernible secular component to it at all.
In a brief search for the answer to that question I have come across varied Muslim offerings on the matter.

The "No's"

Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris at Islaam.com posits:

"So how are Muslims to approach the modern trend of separation of religion and state? The basic belief in Islam is that the Qur’an is one hundred percent the word of Allah, and the Sunna was also as a result of the guidance of Allah to the Prophet sallallahu allayhe wasalam. Islam cannot be separated from the state because it guides us through every detail of running the state and our lives. Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah."

Does that sound ominous?Hold on, Dr. Idris attempt to put us at ease with:

"What needs to be pointed out is that under the law of Islam, other religions are not prohibited. At the same time, people are provided with doctrines for legislation and running of state that will protect people of all faiths living in the state."

OK, I feel much better now knowing that not all Muslims are out to convert or kill all people of other faiths. Hopefully this revelation by Idris is not some form of Taqiyya.. The recent story of Muslims protecting Christians in Kenya lends some credence to his words.

Continuing with more excerpts from Dr. Idris's narrative:

"Secularists in the West will agree with this, then they will point out that under Islamic law, people are not all equal. No non-Muslim, for example, could become the president. Well, in response to that fact, in turn, secularism is no different. No Muslim could become president in a secular regime, for in order to pledge loyalty to the constitution, a Muslim would have to abandon part of his belief and embrace the belief of secularism — which is practically another religion. For Muslims, the word ‘religion’ does not only refer to a collection of beliefs and rituals, it refers to a way of life which includes all values, behaviours, and details of living."

There it is. Dr. Idris, has put it succinctly and convincingly: The Separation of Church and State is not an option for Muslims. He is joined in that opinion by

Jamil Hamami:


Jamil Hamami, a Hamas leader and lecturer at Al Quds University, in a May 29, 1999 seminar posted on the Palestinian Academic Society for the Study of International Affairs (PASSIA) website titled "Political Islam in the Arab World," wrote:

"Some people think that talking about political Islam implies that there is a separation between religion and state. An in-depth look at the way and spirit of Islam would show that this is not true. Islam is state, religion and a way of life -- which includes all aspects of the daily life of the Muslim -- combined."



May 29, 1999 - Jamil Hamami

Is Islam Compatible with the Concept of the Separation of Religion and State? - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

The Yes men....to be continued......

As with other religions, it depends on the individual

 

[irosie91]

From what I know of Islam, there does not seem to be a discernible secular component to it at all.
In a brief search for the answer to that question I have come across varied Muslim offerings on the matter.

The "No's"

Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris at Islaam.com posits:

"So how are Muslims to approach the modern trend of separation of religion and state? The basic belief in Islam is that the Qur’an is one hundred percent the word of Allah, and the Sunna was also as a result of the guidance of Allah to the Prophet sallallahu allayhe wasalam. Islam cannot be separated from the state because it guides us through every detail of running the state and our lives. Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah."

Does that sound ominous?Hold on, Dr. Idris attempt to put us at ease with:

"What needs to be pointed out is that under the law of Islam, other religions are not prohibited. At the same time, people are provided with doctrines for legislation and running of state that will protect people of all faiths living in the state."

OK, I feel much better now knowing that not all Muslims are out to convert or kill all people of other faiths. Hopefully this revelation by Idris is not some form of Taqiyya.. The recent story of Muslims protecting Christians in Kenya lends some credence to his words.

Continuing with more excerpts from Dr. Idris's narrative:

"Secularists in the West will agree with this, then they will point out that under Islamic law, people are not all equal. No non-Muslim, for example, could become the president. Well, in response to that fact, in turn, secularism is no different. No Muslim could become president in a secular regime, for in order to pledge loyalty to the constitution, a Muslim would have to abandon part of his belief and embrace the belief of secularism — which is practically another religion. For Muslims, the word ‘religion’ does not only refer to a collection of beliefs and rituals, it refers to a way of life which includes all values, behaviours, and details of living."

There it is. Dr. Idris, has put it succinctly and convincingly: The Separation of Church and State is not an option for Muslims. He is joined in that opinion by

Jamil Hamami:


Jamil Hamami, a Hamas leader and lecturer at Al Quds University, in a May 29, 1999 seminar posted on the Palestinian Academic Society for the Study of International Affairs (PASSIA) website titled "Political Islam in the Arab World," wrote:

"Some people think that talking about political Islam implies that there is a separation between religion and state. An in-depth look at the way and spirit of Islam would show that this is not true. Islam is state, religion and a way of life -- which includes all aspects of the daily life of the Muslim -- combined."



May 29, 1999 - Jamil Hamami

Is Islam Compatible with the Concept of the Separation of Religion and State? - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

The Yes men....to be continued......

As with other religions, it depends on the individual

thanks for a really stupid answer. Kinda like answering "do Christians believe in the existence of GOD"? with depends on the Christian. Now for a real answer.
In Islamic ethos -----Islam IS the state. The only actually legal government is a
CALIPHATE ----ruled by a "caliph" who is considered a successor to muhummad and the "friend" of muhummad

 

[Agit8r]

From what I know of Islam, there does not seem to be a discernible secular component to it at all.
In a brief search for the answer to that question I have come across varied Muslim offerings on the matter.

The "No's"

Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris at Islaam.com posits:

"So how are Muslims to approach the modern trend of separation of religion and state? The basic belief in Islam is that the Qur’an is one hundred percent the word of Allah, and the Sunna was also as a result of the guidance of Allah to the Prophet sallallahu allayhe wasalam. Islam cannot be separated from the state because it guides us through every detail of running the state and our lives. Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah."

Does that sound ominous?Hold on, Dr. Idris attempt to put us at ease with:

"What needs to be pointed out is that under the law of Islam, other religions are not prohibited. At the same time, people are provided with doctrines for legislation and running of state that will protect people of all faiths living in the state."

OK, I feel much better now knowing that not all Muslims are out to convert or kill all people of other faiths. Hopefully this revelation by Idris is not some form of Taqiyya.. The recent story of Muslims protecting Christians in Kenya lends some credence to his words.

Continuing with more excerpts from Dr. Idris's narrative:

"Secularists in the West will agree with this, then they will point out that under Islamic law, people are not all equal. No non-Muslim, for example, could become the president. Well, in response to that fact, in turn, secularism is no different. No Muslim could become president in a secular regime, for in order to pledge loyalty to the constitution, a Muslim would have to abandon part of his belief and embrace the belief of secularism — which is practically another religion. For Muslims, the word ‘religion’ does not only refer to a collection of beliefs and rituals, it refers to a way of life which includes all values, behaviours, and details of living."

There it is. Dr. Idris, has put it succinctly and convincingly: The Separation of Church and State is not an option for Muslims. He is joined in that opinion by

Jamil Hamami:


Jamil Hamami, a Hamas leader and lecturer at Al Quds University, in a May 29, 1999 seminar posted on the Palestinian Academic Society for the Study of International Affairs (PASSIA) website titled "Political Islam in the Arab World," wrote:

"Some people think that talking about political Islam implies that there is a separation between religion and state. An in-depth look at the way and spirit of Islam would show that this is not true. Islam is state, religion and a way of life -- which includes all aspects of the daily life of the Muslim -- combined."



May 29, 1999 - Jamil Hamami

Is Islam Compatible with the Concept of the Separation of Religion and State? - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

The Yes men....to be continued......

As with other religions, it depends on the individual

thanks for a really stupid answer. Kinda like answering "do Christians believe in the existence of GOD"? with depends on the Christian. Now for a real answer.
In Islamic ethos -----Islam IS the state. The only actually legal government is a
CALIPHATE ----ruled by a "caliph" who is considered a successor to muhummad and the "friend" of muhummad

Then how do you explain Muslim individuals who have presided of secular governments?

Yusof Ishak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JQPublic1]

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

no

That's still an incredibly small number and the only way for people to harass you over your faith is if you tell them

Do you agree there may be many more Muslims in the military due to underreporting..for the reasons I have already stated?

Unlikely since serving in the military would be great pr

and I never identified

Pr does not trump harassment and derision by your fellow soldiers. Many Muslim SOLDIERS probably think it is better to just keep quiet about their faith.

 

[Mudda]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

 

[Mudda]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

I can't imagine hating feels good. But of course, it's your choice.

They love to hate infidels, just watch the news, so what's the difference? Just showing them the same love that they show us.

 

[JQPublic1]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

Oh, brother, another lost soul has wandered in without a clue as to what he/she is talking about.

 

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

Hmm. I travelled in India and Nepal and did travel in areas where women wore the full veil. It is eerie. It's kind of like the entire gender of women being erased as individual human beings.

Now I don't feel the same way about the shorter veil which many Muslim women claim helps them in their faith. This is what we are most likely to see in the US.

 

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

I can't imagine hating feels good. But of course, it's your choice.

They love to hate infidels, just watch the news, so what's the difference? Just showing them the same love that they show us.

I'd say you love to hate Muslims and you can't imagine even seeing them as human beings.

 

[Mudda]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

I can't imagine hating feels good. But of course, it's your choice.

They love to hate infidels, just watch the news, so what's the difference? Just showing them the same love that they show us.

I'd say you love to hate Muslims and you can't imagine even seeing them as human beings.

They are human beings. Just on the very low end of the scale.

 

[Mudda]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

Hmm. I travelled in India and Nepal and did travel in areas where women wore the full veil. It is eerie. It's kind of like the entire gender of women being erased as individual human beings.

Now I don't feel the same way about the shorter veil which many Muslim women claim helps them in their faith. This is what we are most likely to see in the US.

They wear veils because they are afraid to be raped or beaten if they don't. So it's not even a fully civilized society.

 

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

I can't imagine hating feels good. But of course, it's your choice.

They love to hate infidels, just watch the news, so what's the difference? Just showing them the same love that they show us.

I'd say you love to hate Muslims and you can't imagine even seeing them as human beings.

They are human beings. Just on the very low end of the scale.

No, they're as worthy of kind regard as any other group of people. Your stance is Muslims equal terrorists. I don't buy that premise.

 

[Mudda]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

Oh, brother, another lost soul has wandered in without a clue as to what he/she is talking about.

They wear veils because they are afraid of being raped if they don't. That's totally ridiculous, amoral and absurd.

 

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

Hmm. I travelled in India and Nepal and did travel in areas where women wore the full veil. It is eerie. It's kind of like the entire gender of women being erased as individual human beings.

Now I don't feel the same way about the shorter veil which many Muslim women claim helps them in their faith. This is what we are most likely to see in the US.

They wear veils because they are afraid to be raped or beaten if they don't. So it's not even a fully civilized society.

Their culture is very different from ours. Yet, we don't see that expression of Islam in America.

 

[Mudda]

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

I can't imagine hating feels good. But of course, it's your choice.

They love to hate infidels, just watch the news, so what's the difference? Just showing them the same love that they show us.

I'd say you love to hate Muslims and you can't imagine even seeing them as human beings.

They are human beings. Just on the very low end of the scale.

No, they're as worthy of kind regard as any other group of people. Your stance is Muslims equal terrorists. I don't buy that premise.

Mooslims want to live like it's 1199. I say go for it. But then, no toilet paper.

 

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

C'mon man, wearing those sheets over themselves is like walking around with a billboard that says "I think non-mooslim women dress like whores". Plus, it's really, really dumb to wear a sheet over yourself, they just bring ridicule onto themselves.

Oh, brother, another lost soul has wandered in without a clue as to what he/she is talking about.

They wear veils because they are afraid of being raped if they don't. That's totally ridiculous, amoral and absurd.[/QUOTE]

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.