Do only Christians go to heaven?

[hadit]

To your lack of understanding about Jesus crackers and juice:
It has nothing to do with every other Sunday or Holy Days, or Christmas or dogma or doctrine..
Christ said to do it often. Do what? Remember what it cost Him to remove from us what separates us from God. Do it with a piece of toast and a cup of coffee in the morning. And then Thank Him. He paid the price so you do not have to. Then offered it to us as a gift.

I hope that helps clear things up for you. I

Thanks, got it.

All anyone needs to do is to be thankful to Jesus over toast and coffee in the morning and everything will be just peachy.

Thats what you get out of the story? Jesus did all the suffering so you don't have to do anything about your own sins except say thank you?

That's the truth. He suffered so we can be put back in right relationship with Him, because we can do nothing about our own sin. Of course, that instantly makes you a target for the enemies of God, and growing in relationship with Him requires a lot of learning and dying to yourself, but God has already done everything necessary for us to be forgiven.

What? Are you 8 years old?

How old were you when you arrived at the so called age of reason and received your first communion?

Call me crazy but it seems like you died in that very day.

The sacrament of Communion is for remembrance, for Christians to remember what Christ has done. It has no power outside of that.

 

[hobelim]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Here, the author of John is teaching that the existing metaphor for the word of God, manna from heaven, became flesh in the person of Jesus. It is not about God becoming a human. Just like manna = teaching from God, bread from heaven, the word, became the flesh of Jesus or teaching from God that came into the world through Jesus, given for the life of the world.

Without knowing this the command to "eat my flesh" is unintelligible and impossible to correctly comply with.

 

[hadit]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Here, the author of John is teaching that the existing metaphor for the word of God, manna from heaven, became flesh in the person of Jesus. It is not about God becoming a human. Just like manna = teaching from God, bread from heaven, the word, became the flesh of Jesus or teaching from God that came into the world through Jesus, given for the life of the world.

Without knowing this the command to "eat my flesh" is unintelligible and impossible to correctly comply with.

All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Really? You really want to maintain that a metaphor created all things? That a metaphor made the world and was in the world?

And here is John the Baptist testifying of Jesus. You do know that John was older than Jesus?

This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

You have to ignore the bulk of Scripture to make the case you are trying to make from one verse.

 

[hobelim]

Really? You really want to maintain that a metaphor created all things? That a metaphor made the world and was in the world?

Yes, the story of creation is itself metaphorical. It is not and never was about the creation of the universe, solar system,the earth or any plant or animal life, much less the first humans.

What was created was light which represents the law and way to eternal life in a world that had been for millions of years before without shape and void and darkness, ignorance and superstition, covered the face of the deep.

This light from God separated the darkness and divided the night by teaching people to distinguish between good and evil right and wrong, true and false, life and death creating the concept of a world above and a world below....

The promise of a new heaven and a new earth, in the same way, is not about the destruction of the planet

 

[hadit]

Really? You really want to maintain that a metaphor created all things? That a metaphor made the world and was in the world?

Yes, the story of creation is itself metaphorical. It is not and never was about the creation of the universe, solar system,the earth or any plant or animal life, much less the first humans.

What was created was light which represents the law and way to eternal life in a world that had been for millions of years before without shape and void and darkness, ignorance and superstition, covered the face of the deep.

This light from God separated the darkness and divided the night by teaching people to distinguish between good and evil right and wrong, true and false, life and death.

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

 

[Mudda]

Jesus claimed one of God's titles. You may disagree with Him because it contradicts your theology, but He claimed it. Oh, and BTW, Jesus wasn't dead when John saw Him, He is alive and well.

At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."


revelation 19:10

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

In Isaiah saying that a person would come who would be called "mighty God" does not make them God and does not mean they were or are God. Anyway, the prophecy was about the future king Hezekiah. If Jesus has anything to do with this story at all is in the connection that Jesus himself made to it by referring to the bronze serpent that had become the object of idolatry until Hezekiah came, did what is right in Gods eyes, and destroyed it.

Not sure why you're bringing that into it, since I said nothing about it.

Jesus was dead for a long time before John of Patmos had any vision whatsoever. Even if Jesus claimed to be the first and the last it does not automatically have anything to do with claiming divinity.

It is well known that Jesus was the first fruits of those who are asleep, the dead.

It is also well known that he will be the last whenever he appears again, to free whoever remains in hells keeping, and raise the dead. Some will purify their minds and be refined making their robes shining white while others will understand and do nothing.

See? Nothing to do with claiming to be God, or, in other words, being insane.

Since you seem to be unaware:

Isaiah 41:4

4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:10, 11

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Revelation 1:17,18

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus claimed one of God's titles. You may disagree with Him because it contradicts your theology, but He claimed it. Oh, and BTW, Jesus wasn't dead when John saw Him, He is alive and well.

Do you have any actual proof for this? Or this is just wishful thinking?

Do you realize the fallacy of what you are asking and how it has no bearing on the discussion?

Please explain what you're fucking talking about, lol. You seem to just deflect anytime I ask a hard question.

 

[Mudda]

No you posted a verse of scripture.

Have you never even tried to find another more rational way to interpret what Jesus said that doesn't make him out to be insane?

I've posted multiple verses of Scripture. Obviously, you didn't, and don't have any intention to, find out who is saying He is Alpha and Omega in Isaiah and again in Revelation.

Do you have any proof that scripture is actually what happened and what people said...? Or is it more of a wishful thinking kind of thing with you.

Do you have any proof that alien abductions are for real, or have you just decided the accounts lend credibility to the idea without solid, scientific, reproducible evidence?

I never said that alien abductions were proven, but are much more likely than the god of the bible, but so far no real smoking gun in either case.

You give credibility to stories that cannot be scientifically verified. IOW, you have faith. Yet you disparage those who also have faith, but in something else.

Actually there is proof that people are taken by Aliens and that people see UFOs. You on the other hand, have absolutely nothing, just wishful thinking.

 

[Mudda]

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

How does that vain assertion relate to the question of whether Jesus claimed to be divine? If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Because the only proof of what Jesus said is in the bible, which is third generation hearsay at best.

You keep saying that like you actually believe it, but it's not germane to the topic.

So you don't disagree with me, good for you.

My agreement or disagreement with that is not on the table.

Too late, it just was.
And I noticed that you didn't disagree once more.

 

[Mudda]

Because he didn't.

Why do you perpetuate the lie created by his enemies to slander and discredit Jesus?

just like today, even in the first century anyone who claimed to be a god was insane.

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

How does that vain assertion relate to the question of whether Jesus claimed to be divine? If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Because the only proof of what Jesus said is in the bible, which is third generation hearsay at best.

First I would deny it was third generation hearsay. Many of the authors were alive with Jesus.

Further many of his followers were killed for their faith. If Jesus had not said the things they say he said... then everyone who was also alive at the time, would have said they were making it up. They would have been discredited, and ignored as the ravings of mad men.

Instead they were perused and murdered for their faith.

Moreover, the Jewish leadership, as recorded in the Talmud, never sought to contradict claims of what he said, only to discredit what he said was true.

Lastly, while 'the bible' is the only primary source for things directly said by Jesus... the Bible is a compilation of sources. It's actually a half dozen different sources.

There is no proof that the different chapters of the bible were written by their supposed authors, as the earliest fragment of the bible dated to several generations after the events are said to have occurred. And it's only a small fragment, most of the stuff is dated even later.
The Jewish leadership would gain nothing from disputing the bible, because those same arguments could then have been used against their own book.
Nothing from the bible is provable to have been said by Jesus, as it's all written several generations after the facts. Now THAT is provable.

 

[Mudda]

I've shown you where He did. You ignored it.

Scripture is made-up hearsay. Kinda like arguing over a comic book.

How does that vain assertion relate to the question of whether Jesus claimed to be divine? If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Because the only proof of what Jesus said is in the bible, which is third generation hearsay at best.

First I would deny it was third generation hearsay. Many of the authors were alive with Jesus.

Further many of his followers were killed for their faith. If Jesus had not said the things they say he said... then everyone who was also alive at the time, would have said they were making it up. They would have been discredited, and ignored as the ravings of mad men.

Instead they were perused and murdered for their faith.

Moreover, the Jewish leadership, as recorded in the Talmud, never sought to contradict claims of what he said, only to discredit what he said was true.

Lastly, while 'the bible' is the only primary source for things directly said by Jesus... the Bible is a compilation of sources. It's actually a half dozen different sources.

Paul even mentioned in one of his letters that there were many who had seen the resurrected Christ who were still alive at the time he wrote the letter.

No such letter has ever been verified properly to have been actually written by Paul.

 

[hobelim]

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

It is not very plain to anyone who ever read the OT. The entire teaching of the Torah precludes any such possibility.

The only honest course to take is to question the teachings of the church that became dogma in Rome after the council of Nicaea in 325 c.e. by a bunch of superstitious people who knew nothing of Jewish thought, belief, and figurative expressions to see if there is some other rational way to interpret what was written hundreds of years earlier by dedicated Jews.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

You can no longer say that there is no other way to interpret those words that doesn't make Jesus, the authors of the Gospels and the early church out to be either liars or insane.


I have shown it to you.

 

[hadit]

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

It is not very plain to anyone who ever read the OT. The entire teaching of the Torah precludes any such possibility.

The only rational course to take is to question the teachings of the church that became dogma in Rome after the council of Nicaea in 325 c.e. by a bunch of superstitious people who knew nothing of Jewish thought, belief, and figurative expressions and see if there is some other rational way to interpret what was written hundreds of years earlier.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

You can no longer say there is no other way to interpret those words that doesn't make Jesus out to be insane.


I have shown it to you.

Then you haven't looked very far.

From Genesis 32:

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

And, just in case you want to insist it wasn't God in the flesh, from Hosea 12:

2 The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there—
5 the Lord God Almighty,
the Lord is his name!

It sounds like you have a problem with OT Scripture.

 

[hobelim]

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

It is not very plain to anyone who ever read the OT. The entire teaching of the Torah precludes any such possibility.

The only rational course to take is to question the teachings of the church that became dogma in Rome after the council of Nicaea in 325 c.e. by a bunch of superstitious people who knew nothing of Jewish thought, belief, and figurative expressions and see if there is some other rational way to interpret what was written hundreds of years earlier.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

You can no longer say there is no other way to interpret those words that doesn't make Jesus out to be insane.


I have shown it to you.

Then you haven't looked very far.

From Genesis 32:

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

And, just in case you want to insist it wasn't God in the flesh, from Hosea 12:

2 The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there—
5 the Lord God Almighty,
the Lord is his name!

It sounds like you have a problem with OT Scripture.

No, you seem to be having a problem distinguishing between an actual event and an eye witness account of what was seen and heard in a dream where anything is possible, nothing is of any material substance, and no one is flesh.

 

[hadit]

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

It is not very plain to anyone who ever read the OT. The entire teaching of the Torah precludes any such possibility.

The only rational course to take is to question the teachings of the church that became dogma in Rome after the council of Nicaea in 325 c.e. by a bunch of superstitious people who knew nothing of Jewish thought, belief, and figurative expressions and see if there is some other rational way to interpret what was written hundreds of years earlier.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

You can no longer say there is no other way to interpret those words that doesn't make Jesus out to be insane.


I have shown it to you.

Then you haven't looked very far.

From Genesis 32:

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

And, just in case you want to insist it wasn't God in the flesh, from Hosea 12:

2 The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there—
5 the Lord God Almighty,
the Lord is his name!

It sounds like you have a problem with OT Scripture.

No, you seem to be having a problem distinguishing between an actual event and an eye witness account of what was seen and heard in a dream where anything is possible, nothing is of any material substance, and no one is flesh.

We've been over the whole "dream" thing before, and you went silent when I asked you if the entire nation of Israel dreamed the Red Sea crossing as well as the inhabitants of the Canaan who mentioned it when they got there.

 

[hobelim]

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

It is not very plain to anyone who ever read the OT. The entire teaching of the Torah precludes any such possibility.

The only rational course to take is to question the teachings of the church that became dogma in Rome after the council of Nicaea in 325 c.e. by a bunch of superstitious people who knew nothing of Jewish thought, belief, and figurative expressions and see if there is some other rational way to interpret what was written hundreds of years earlier.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

You can no longer say there is no other way to interpret those words that doesn't make Jesus out to be insane.


I have shown it to you.

Then you haven't looked very far.

From Genesis 32:

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

And, just in case you want to insist it wasn't God in the flesh, from Hosea 12:

2 The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there—
5 the Lord God Almighty,
the Lord is his name!

It sounds like you have a problem with OT Scripture.

No, you seem to be having a problem distinguishing between an actual event and an eye witness account of what was seen and heard in a dream where anything is possible, nothing is of any material substance, and no one is flesh.

We've been over the whole "dream" thing before, and you went silent when I asked you if the entire nation of Israel dreamed the Red Sea crossing as well as the inhabitants of the Canaan who mentioned it when they got there.

The parting of the red sea could easily have been something as un-supernaturally spectacular as the parting of the Party of God.

Anyway I do think I mentioned that there are any number of natural causes that could explain these events not including the fact that the red sea is a known mistranslation for the sea of reeds.

 

[RWNJ]

Are Christians the only ones accepted into heaven? - Interesting read (includes Bible verses)
"Classical evangelical doctrine holds that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus Christ, and that those without such faith will be condemned to hell. A number of texts are typically cited in support of this position."

So a good person who is an atheist goes to hell, but a Christian who commits crimes and murders people can go to heaven?
Please discuss. Is accepting Jesus Christ the only way to go to Heaven?

If someone has heard the Gospel message, and rejected it, then they are lost. However, those who have not heard can still recognize the Creator from His Creation. The Bible tells us that right and wrong are ingrained in every individual. We instinctively know what is right and wrong. Now combine this sense of right and wrong, a belief in the Creator, and the willingness to do what is right in Gods eyes. You see, God judges the heart. He knows that if such a person had heard the Gospel message, they would have accepted it. It's that simple.

 

[The Irish Ram]

To your lack of understanding about Jesus crackers and juice:
It has nothing to do with every other Sunday or Holy Days, or Christmas or dogma or doctrine..
Christ said to do it often. Do what? Remember what it cost Him to remove from us what separates us from God. Do it with a piece of toast and a cup of coffee in the morning. And then Thank Him. He paid the price so you do not have to. Then offered it to us as a gift.

I hope that helps clear things up for you. I

Thanks, got it.

All anyone needs to do is to be thankful to Jesus over toast and coffee in the morning and everything will be just peachy.

Thats what you get out of the story? Jesus did all the suffering so you don't have to do anything about your own sins except say thank you?

What? Are you 8 years old?

How old were you when you arrived at the so called age of reason and received your first communion?

Call me crazy but it seems like you died in that very day.

I am alive and well, and possess understanding, let me help you. You are focused on coffee, and keep missing the point. "Do this in remembrance of me." The key point isn't food or drink, it is remembrance. Remember often what Christ did for us. Wine, coffee, tea, Pepsi, matters not.
Not Catholic, so no catechism, first communion.
Age of reason is the age in which you have a conscious awareness of right and wrong.

And yes. Jesus did all the suffering so I don't have to suffer the consequences of my sin. There is absolutely nothing I can add to Christ's work on the cross concerning my redemption. It is finished. What I can do is repent when I sin. Before you get silly, repenting isn't walking into a box and saying sorry, then running out to sin some more. It is not a mouth issue, it is a heart issue. Turning away from the sinful act is repenting.

Never-the-less, as for the grace< favor we don't deserve, of God, here is His heart:
The High Priest would enter the Holy of Holies in the Temple ONCE A YEAR to ask for forgiveness of God's people. His plea was granted. They may have started sinning the next day and for the rest of the year, only to be forgiven again the next year.
Our Father is all about drawing us to him, not sending us away.
Sin cannot enter Heaven. If you reject the gift that Christ offers us, and decide to hold on to your sin and die, you will not be entering Heaven. If you accept Christ's gift, then an exchange took place. He became sin for us, we became the righteousness of Christ to God. And the righteous enter Heaven when they die. So yes, many Thank yous are in order. If you never do another good deed in your life, accepting Christ as your savior gives you eternal life with our Father.

Now tell me, in the Gospel of Hob, how do you get to spend eternity with our Father?

 

[nicoleivy5]

Are Christians the only ones accepted into heaven? - Interesting read (includes Bible verses)
"Classical evangelical doctrine holds that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus Christ, and that those without such faith will be condemned to hell. A number of texts are typically cited in support of this position."

So a good person who is an atheist goes to hell, but a Christian who commits crimes and murders people can go to heaven?
Please discuss. Is accepting Jesus Christ the only way to go to Heaven?

If someone has heard the Gospel message, and rejected it, then they are lost. However, those who have not heard can still recognize the Creator from His Creation. The Bible tells us that right and wrong are ingrained in every individual. We instinctively know what is right and wrong. Now combine this sense of right and wrong, a belief in the Creator, and the willingness to do what is right in Gods eyes. You see, God judges the heart. He knows that if such a person had heard the Gospel message, they would have accepted it. It's that simple.

agreed great post

 

[hobelim]

Now tell me, in the Gospel of Hob, how do you get to spend eternity with our Father?

The way to the tree of life is the manner in which one interprets and complies with divine law.

There is only way to conform to the laws demands that leads to the promise of life fulfilled, many ways that lead to destruction.

The teaching of Jesus from God is that the words of the law are figurative, the subjects hidden. This the truth, the very truth. This is the light from above that clearly reveals the way to that tree of life. This is his flesh.

Life is in the blood and life is the promise for obedience to the law. Jesus conformed to the law in a particular way according to the revelation that he received from God that gave him life from God. This is his blood.


Unless a person eats his flesh, internalizes his teaching, and drinks his blood, imitates his example, they cannot have the life promised for obedience to the law in them.


If you heed the teaching of Jesus and follow his example you will not only spend eternity with the Father, you will be in him and with him and he will be in you and with you, here and now, and for the rest of your mortal existence.

This is the Gospel, the good news according to Hobelim.

Accept it and you will never know what it is to die.

 

[nicoleivy5]

And again you focus on one verse while ignoring the totality of the passage. It's very plain. God became man.

It is not very plain to anyone who ever read the OT. The entire teaching of the Torah precludes any such possibility.

The only honest course to take is to question the teachings of the church that became dogma in Rome after the council of Nicaea in 325 c.e. by a bunch of superstitious people who knew nothing of Jewish thought, belief, and figurative expressions to see if there is some other rational way to interpret what was written hundreds of years earlier by dedicated Jews.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

You can no longer say that there is no other way to interpret those words that doesn't make Jesus, the authors of the Gospels and the early church out to be either liars or insane.


I have shown it to you.

i read it too!