Do YOU appreciate President Trump's efforts concerning the virus thus far?

[Correll]

The government as a whole has done a poor job, including Trump. Everything has been reactive and nothing has been proactive. Had we started to mass produce test in Jan like other counties we would not be this far behind in testing. Had we went to 3M in Jan and told them of possible coming crisis they could have started to mass produce N-95 mask like they are now.

but none of those things too place because our government wanted to hide how bad it was likely to get

What will you say, if the countries that don't react strongly, (belarus, sweden) have final results not much worse than ours?

It will depend on how they compare to other Nordic countries, not how they compare to us. Totally different situations.

Are you open to the possibility that such a comparison will show that the current world wide response is a needless panic?

Not really. I know too many people in the medical field who do not view it as a "panic".

So, even if we compare Belarus to say, Poland, and the number show that this massive reaction did not do very much, in saving lives,

you will just dismiss the data and hold with what you have been told?


Well, it is good that you are aware of it, I guess.


I always find it strange, when I can detect in myself, non-rational processes. It is very informative.

 

[berg80]

"The absence of robust screening until it was “far too late” revealed failures across the government, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, the former C.D.C. director. Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, said the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact. Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said the lapse enabled “exponential growth of cases.”

And Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, a top government scientist involved in the fight against the virus, told members of Congress that the early inability to test was “a failing” of the administration’s response to a deadly, global pandemic. “Why,” he asked later in a magazine interview, “were we not able to mobilize on a broader scale?”

 

[sparky]

That sucks. Construction is a nice outside job. Full of younger people, I would expect.

yes, and yes you'll find the younger crowd has more 'gas' than this 'ol dog...

Not really. I know too many people in the medical field who do not view it as a "panic".

having served in ems through multiple HC panics , i can honestly say i've never seen the public reaction like this

the 'panic factor ' alone is detrimental ,and should be the gub'mit's job to address, not esculate

~S~

 

[progressive hunter]

"The absence of robust screening until it was “far too late” revealed failures across the government, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, the former C.D.C. director. Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, said the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact. Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said the lapse enabled “exponential growth of cases.”

And Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, a top government scientist involved in the fight against the virus, told members of Congress that the early inability to test was “a failing” of the administration’s response to a deadly, global pandemic. “Why,” he asked later in a magazine interview, “were we not able to mobilize on a broader scale?”

More evidence China is lying about coronavirus in Wuhan: incinerators and cremations

Count us among those not surprised. Even though the media loved to report that China has its coronavirus pandemic under control, there’s mounting evidence that the laying communist totalitari…

therightscoop.com

 

[LeftofLeft]

Feb. 27, 2020 - "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done. "

30 days later:

Mar. 28, 2020 -

View attachment 316741

Ignorance is a poor excuse for leadership.

The guy you are propping up to take his place is running around trashing Trump at every turn yet offering no alternatives. Worse, he is taking credit for everything gone right regarding epidemics and pandemics when he was Obama’s VP while running for the hills and denying being a part of it. Is this the leadership supposed to be better than Trump?

What does that have to do with Trump's actions regarding coronavirus? Other than feebly deflecting from it?

The topic is Trump and leadership on the situation. I am pointing out the alternative. Still relative, not a deflection.

Trump's efforts to downplay and minimize the threat exist independently, not relatively.

Column: Here are all the times Donald Trump tried to downplay the coronavirus pandemic

President Donald Trump made his first public comments about the coronavirus on Jan. 22, in a television interview from Davos with CNBC’s Joe Kernen. The first American case had been announced…

www.chicagotribune.com

And you think Biden is going to be different by running away? If you believe that about Trump and you want something better, why not get something better? A chicken shit running away from the problem vs. trying to keep US from panic?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Look up CARES, the sba relief is no more than a loan with more strings than a ball of yarn

The loans can be 100% forgiven if employment guidelines are followed.

 

[joaquinmiller]

Feb. 27, 2020 - "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done. "

30 days later:

Mar. 28, 2020 -

View attachment 316741

Ignorance is a poor excuse for leadership.

The guy you are propping up to take his place is running around trashing Trump at every turn yet offering no alternatives. Worse, he is taking credit for everything gone right regarding epidemics and pandemics when he was Obama’s VP while running for the hills and denying being a part of it. Is this the leadership supposed to be better than Trump?

What does that have to do with Trump's actions regarding coronavirus? Other than feebly deflecting from it?

The topic is Trump and leadership on the situation. I am pointing out the alternative. Still relative, not a deflection.

Trump's efforts to downplay and minimize the threat exist independently, not relatively.

Column: Here are all the times Donald Trump tried to downplay the coronavirus pandemic

President Donald Trump made his first public comments about the coronavirus on Jan. 22, in a television interview from Davos with CNBC’s Joe Kernen. The first American case had been announced…

www.chicagotribune.com

And you think Biden is going to be different by running away? If you believe that about Trump and you want something better, why not get something better? A chicken shit running away from the problem vs. trying to keep US from panic?

I pass. You yammer about Biden all you want.

 

[sparky]

Look up CARES, the sba relief is no more than a loan with more strings than a ball of yarn

The loans can be 100% forgiven if employment guidelines are followed.

If one HAS employees Gramps

~S~

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, even if we compare Belarus to say, Poland, and the number show that this massive reaction did not do very much, in saving lives,

you will just dismiss the data and hold with what you have been told?


Well, it is good that you are aware of it, I guess.


I always find it strange, when I can detect in myself, non-rational processes. It is very informative.

What has Poland done? What steps have they taken? Do you even know?

You also discount what has been done in Sweden, they are a country that listens to their government so when they are given a warning it does not need to be made law, they will normally comply.

Has it occurred to you, just once even, that the steps taken in one country would have an impact on those around it?

I have not dismissed anything, but I put more weight in the facts i get from those that I know personally over opinions from other sources.

Missouri was late to close things and contain people and now they have the fastest growth in the country.

It is fun that you are already condemning me and we have not yet even seen how this is going to play out...but you do what you and that will never change.

 

[Dragonlady]

Feel free to post what he has or hasn't done that you feel strongly about.

The worst thing he did was to ignore the NSA and the CDC for nearly three months before doing anything at all, and then all he did was to ban some travel from China. Much too little, and the end of January was much too late to do it.

His second biggest mistake was to refuse the UN test. Canada and the USA both had their first case on the same day. We tested vigorously and didn't close our borders or ban travel until last week. Today, we have 5600 cases, while the USA has close to 125,000. Even allowing for population differences, the virus is spreading at a much, much slower rate in Canada, and the whole country is now down to "essential services" only, although the definition of "essential" is pretty broad.

 

[White 6]

1. Not listening and acting on intelligence coming out of China before public aware....................................Bad
2. Closing air transportation from China............................................................................................................................Good
3. Failing to simultaneously order CDC and HHS to locate and quarantine people who had arrived
during the preceding 15 days..............................................................................................................................................Bad
4. Bringing back the people quarantined on the cruise ships that were not being allow to disembark
at foreign ports, to mainland US instead of quarantining on hospital ships....................................................Bad
5. Responsible for CDC/HHS improper procedures on meeting, evauating the evacuees in San Diego Bad
improper briefing and lack or non-use of PPE, billeting of evaluation personnel, and subsequent
transportation of those personnel back to home stations without quarantine restrictions................very bad
6. Initial statements made to minimize the epidemic danger to save political face....................................very Bad
7. Subswquent statements meant to calm stock markets and financial sector, ineffectively ..........................Bad
8. Using the growing alarm for personal political dubious benefit at a loyalist campaign rally......................Bad
9. Failure to try to procure what experts were projected as national strategic medical needs by Jan..........Bad
10. Failure of CDC to take charge at Kirkland Rest home, test all patients and personnel''''''''''''''''''''''''very Bad
11. Initial gag order by Pence over experts.............................................................................................................................Bad
12. Continued personal attacks, characterizing negative media coverage as political Hoax...............................Bad
13. Initiating daily public briefings with experts out front in management style approach.............................Good
14. Surprising cohesion of Pence team and effort.............................................................................................................Good
15. Trump speaking to American people using prepared text, on stiuation, on message...............................Good
16. Failure to limit personal Q & A with Trump answering "off the cuff"...................................................................Bad
17. Failure to replace stretegic stockpile of medical resources first 3 years in office............................................Bad
18. Failure to purchase Tests from South Korea rather than rely of on US produced...........................................Bad
19. CDC and HHS belatedly, but finally getting their shit together..........................................................................Good
20. Trump WH team working with both houses of Congress to settle differences on aid package............Good
21. Putting economy over people to suggest early return to business as usual by Easter........................very Bad
22. Dramatic change in tone of Trump during last 4 days as if he finally gets it.......................................very Good
23. Wanting to get his signature on relief checks (if true) is very petty and self serving.....................................Bad

Many other actions/inactions not addressed. Knock yourself out.

 

[sparky]

Look up CARES, the sba relief is no more than a loan with more strings than a ball of yarn

The loans can be 100% forgiven if employment guidelines are followed.

Here's what we have so far Gramps>>>

Guide to the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act) includes provisions to help small businesses. Here are the highlights.

www.uschamber.com

~S~

 

[Correll]

So, even if we compare Belarus to say, Poland, and the number show that this massive reaction did not do very much, in saving lives,

you will just dismiss the data and hold with what you have been told?


Well, it is good that you are aware of it, I guess.


I always find it strange, when I can detect in myself, non-rational processes. It is very informative.

What has Poland done? What steps have they taken? Do you even know?

You also discount what has been done in Sweden, they are a country that listens to their government so when they are given a warning it does not need to be made law, they will normally comply.

Has it occurred to you, just once even, that the steps taken in one country would have an impact on those around it?

I have not dismissed anything, but I put more weight in the facts i get from those that I know personally over opinions from other sources.

Missouri was late to close things and contain people and now they have the fastest growth in the country.

It is fun that you are already condemning me and we have not yet even seen how this is going to play out...but you do what you and that will never change.

I asked you if you if new information could change your view on the outbreak and the response to it.

You said "not really".

I am not condemning you. I am accepting your stated position. It kind of shuts down conversation, when one side openly states that they are not open to new information.


Me? I am deferring to the majority on this, being careful to not break quarantine, even though I think our reaction is quite an overreaction, because if new information afterwards shows me to be wrong, I don't want to be held responsible for my share of deaths.


BUT, if data afterwards shows it was not called for, I think there are a number of people that are owned apologies by the panic mongers, ie those that are being fucked by the shutdowns.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

BUT, if data afterwards shows it was not called for, I think there are a number of people that are owned apologies by the panic mongers, ie those that are being fucked by the shutdowns.

what data could possibly show that?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Quarantining the states that are being hard right now.

 

[Correll]

BUT, if data afterwards shows it was not called for, I think there are a number of people that are owned apologies by the panic mongers, ie those that are being fucked by the shutdowns.

what data could possibly show that?

If nations that did not pursue such strong responses, have death rates not much worse than similar nations that did has strong responses.


I'm glad that some nations are bucking the trend. We will be able to see if this policy was called for or not.


Well, we CAN if we are open to the information. Hopefully most of us will be.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

He could have done some things better.

Right now, it is governors that are really screwing things up.

I've never seen such a crazy group of retards.

Cuomo....New York wants him to run for the presidency so they can replace him. He has killed hundreds of New Yorkers with his inept administration.

The others who have shut their states down totally with no real justification.

New York is a model of what not to do, sadly.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If nations that did not pursue such strong responses, have death rates not much worse than similar nations that did has strong responses.

I'm glad that some nations are bucking the trend. We will be able to see if this policy was called for or not.
Well, we CAN if we are open to the information. Hopefully most of us will be.

These nations do not live in a bubble. If the other nations around them cut off travel to those nations then that would help account for the lack of cases.

None of this stuff happens in a bubble. Right now, Sweden has a higher death rate than we do

 

[Correll]

If nations that did not pursue such strong responses, have death rates not much worse than similar nations that did has strong responses.

I'm glad that some nations are bucking the trend. We will be able to see if this policy was called for or not.
Well, we CAN if we are open to the information. Hopefully most of us will be.

These nations do not live in a bubble. If the other nations around them cut off travel to those nations then that would help account for the lack of cases.

None of this stuff happens in a bubble. Right now, Sweden has a higher death rate than we do

Sure. It would help. But if the virus is as dangerous as advertised, then the prediction would be that Sweden will have a much higher toll than similar nations when this is all over.


If not, that will be shocking.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Sure. It would help. But if the virus is as dangerous as advertised, then the prediction would be that Sweden will have a much higher toll than similar nations when this is all over.


If not, that will be shocking.

One country as an outlier is not that amazing. Plus, from all I have read about Sweden, they are far from "business as usual".

Lockdown, what lockdown? Sweden's unusual response to coronavirus

While swathes of Europe are under lockdown, Sweden is allowing life to go on much as normal.

www.bbc.com