Do you prefer 1984 Socialism or Brave New World progressivism?

[Pedro de San Patricio]

(For the purposes of this thread, "progressivism" is being used in its popular meaning of "US-style new left" rather than its actual meaning as the ideology of the former Bull Moose party.)

1984 had a classless, lawless society led by the revolutionary party. The proletariat led lives almost entirely unaffected by the government and enjoyed free, state-provided entertainment and goods. The party itself was divided into a lower and upper tier based on demonstrated loyalty to revolutionary principles. The lower party were the bureaucracy that ran the welfare system, the nationalized media, and related services. The upper party were the party leadership who handled international affairs.

Brave New World had a society based on eugenics ideas widely popular within leftist circles until relatively recently. Each citizen was essentially a test tube baby artificially gestated and given the standard nutrient and oxygen exposure suitable for their preassigned class. They were then enrolled in basic class indoctrination to teach them to enjoy the things suitable for their class before being assigned an appropriate job and allowed to live their lives. Due to the artificial nature of reproduction in that society, all citizens were sterile and enjoyed strictly recreational sex with anyone willing. Drugs were legal, free, and highly advanced and allowed one to experience their choice of strength and duration of the high. A side effect of those drugs was to keep everyone youthful up until they died, at which point their corpse was taken to the incinerator to provide a form of green power.

 

[westwall]

Classless society? I don't think you read the same book I did.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Maybe not in practice but officially. The laws were the same: officially there were none, but there was still a secret police and prisons.

 

[BlackFlag]

(For the purposes of this thread, "progressivism" is being used in its popular meaning of "US-style new left" rather than its actual meaning as the ideology of the former Bull Moose party.)

1984 had a classless, lawless society led by the revolutionary party. The proletariat led lives almost entirely unaffected by the government and enjoyed free, state-provided entertainment and goods. The party itself was divided into a lower and upper tier based on demonstrated loyalty to revolutionary principles. The lower party were the bureaucracy that ran the welfare system, the nationalized media, and related services. The upper party were the party leadership who handled international affairs.

Brave New World had a society based on eugenics ideas widely popular within leftist circles until relatively recently. Each citizen was essentially a test tube baby artificially gestated and given the standard nutrient and oxygen exposure suitable for their preassigned class. They were then enrolled in basic class indoctrination to teach them to enjoy the things suitable for their class before being assigned an appropriate job and allowed to live their lives. Due to the artificial nature of reproduction in that society, all citizens were sterile and enjoyed strictly recreational sex with anyone willing. Drugs were legal, free, and highly advanced and allowed one to experience their choice of strength and duration of the high. A side effect of those drugs was to keep everyone youthful up until they died, at which point their corpse was taken to the incinerator to provide a form of green power.

Modern republicans, who are terrified of the world, would probably go for a "1984" version of America. Safety first of course.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

(For the purposes of this thread, "progressivism" is being used in its popular meaning of "US-style new left" rather than its actual meaning as the ideology of the former Bull Moose party.)

1984 had a classless, lawless society led by the revolutionary party. The proletariat led lives almost entirely unaffected by the government and enjoyed free, state-provided entertainment and goods. The party itself was divided into a lower and upper tier based on demonstrated loyalty to revolutionary principles. The lower party were the bureaucracy that ran the welfare system, the nationalized media, and related services. The upper party were the party leadership who handled international affairs.

Brave New World had a society based on eugenics ideas widely popular within leftist circles until relatively recently. Each citizen was essentially a test tube baby artificially gestated and given the standard nutrient and oxygen exposure suitable for their preassigned class. They were then enrolled in basic class indoctrination to teach them to enjoy the things suitable for their class before being assigned an appropriate job and allowed to live their lives. Due to the artificial nature of reproduction in that society, all citizens were sterile and enjoyed strictly recreational sex with anyone willing. Drugs were legal, free, and highly advanced and allowed one to experience their choice of strength and duration of the high. A side effect of those drugs was to keep everyone youthful up until they died, at which point their corpse was taken to the incinerator to provide a form of green power.

Don't be so hard on Reagan.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

(For the purposes of this thread, "progressivism" is being used in its popular meaning of "US-style new left" rather than its actual meaning as the ideology of the former Bull Moose party.)

1984 had a classless, lawless society led by the revolutionary party. The proletariat led lives almost entirely unaffected by the government and enjoyed free, state-provided entertainment and goods. The party itself was divided into a lower and upper tier based on demonstrated loyalty to revolutionary principles. The lower party were the bureaucracy that ran the welfare system, the nationalized media, and related services. The upper party were the party leadership who handled international affairs.

Brave New World had a society based on eugenics ideas widely popular within leftist circles until relatively recently. Each citizen was essentially a test tube baby artificially gestated and given the standard nutrient and oxygen exposure suitable for their preassigned class. They were then enrolled in basic class indoctrination to teach them to enjoy the things suitable for their class before being assigned an appropriate job and allowed to live their lives. Due to the artificial nature of reproduction in that society, all citizens were sterile and enjoyed strictly recreational sex with anyone willing. Drugs were legal, free, and highly advanced and allowed one to experience their choice of strength and duration of the high. A side effect of those drugs was to keep everyone youthful up until they died, at which point their corpse was taken to the incinerator to provide a form of green power.

Don't be so hard on Reagan.

I don't get it?

 

[Socialist]

I'm sorry, but what classless society existed in 1984? The only ones I can think of that arose in the early 1900's, following various degrees of anarchist thought, were those in spain during the revolution, and in the free ukrainian territories.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I'm sorry, but what classless society existed in 1984? The only ones I can think of that arose in the early 1900's, following various degrees of anarchist thought, were those in spain during the revolution, and in the free ukrainian territories.

It's a book: Nineteen Eighty-Four - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia The writer was actually a fairly prominent socialist himself.

 

[Socialist]

I'm sorry, but what classless society existed in 1984? The only ones I can think of that arose in the early 1900's, following various degrees of anarchist thought, were those in spain during the revolution, and in the free ukrainian territories.

It's a book: Nineteen Eighty-Four - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia The writer was actually a fairly prominent socialist himself.

I didn't know it was a book, but George orwell also wrote a homage to catalonia, an anarchist "utopia" which existed, for real, I would love to emulate that...

 

[emilynghiem]

(For the purposes of this thread, "progressivism" is being used in its popular meaning of "US-style new left" rather than its actual meaning as the ideology of the former Bull Moose party.)

1984 had a classless, lawless society led by the revolutionary party. The proletariat led lives almost entirely unaffected by the government and enjoyed free, state-provided entertainment and goods. The party itself was divided into a lower and upper tier based on demonstrated loyalty to revolutionary principles. The lower party were the bureaucracy that ran the welfare system, the nationalized media, and related services. The upper party were the party leadership who handled international affairs.

Brave New World had a society based on eugenics ideas widely popular within leftist circles until relatively recently. Each citizen was essentially a test tube baby artificially gestated and given the standard nutrient and oxygen exposure suitable for their preassigned class. They were then enrolled in basic class indoctrination to teach them to enjoy the things suitable for their class before being assigned an appropriate job and allowed to live their lives. Due to the artificial nature of reproduction in that society, all citizens were sterile and enjoyed strictly recreational sex with anyone willing. Drugs were legal, free, and highly advanced and allowed one to experience their choice of strength and duration of the high. A side effect of those drugs was to keep everyone youthful up until they died, at which point their corpse was taken to the incinerator to provide a form of green power.

Honestly I thought you were going to compare
the Reagan 80's with today's concept of progressive.

I would go with the 80's where America was at its height
of letting everyone be whatever culture or style of music they wanted,
from heavy death metal to Madonna pop rock and fashion.

Today there is a split between the commercialized politicized "liberal"
like selling Carbon Credits and demonizing anyone who attacks Global Warming as a political conflict of interest,
and the REAL progressives like longterm peace and justice community, sick of politics as usual,
and seeking to collaborate with rightwing and libertarian who are sick of out of control govt.
That is the real progressive movement to me, but it is grassroots and allows inclusion and independent
choice in activism. By its nature it is not this mob mentality that the Democrats use to push agenda and get into office. The real progressives work independently like the independent libertarians and conservatives who
can't stand the career politicians buying and selling out the party politicians.

I think some of these independents came out of the 80's where everyone did their own thing
and was okay with that. The 90's brought in the teen angst where suddenly it's not okay,
and you are supposed to reject this group for that one, and complete to be popular and cool.
Somewhere it turned into political correctness and downgrading others by superiority/inferiority.
Party politics played on that to divide people further by social class, rich vs poor, or this vs. that.

I'd like to get back to the place we were before where if everyone had different ways or cultures, that was cool.
Why can't we let the different parties be like different religions and not have this class war of trying to
dominate and reject each other. Why can't we have "all the above" and let people choose how to associate
and organize. Whatever it takes to fast forward through the current phase, and get to a better place,
where's that button. I want to push it!

 

[rdean]

(For the purposes of this thread, "progressivism" is being used in its popular meaning of "US-style new left" rather than its actual meaning as the ideology of the former Bull Moose party.)

1984 had a classless, lawless society led by the revolutionary party. The proletariat led lives almost entirely unaffected by the government and enjoyed free, state-provided entertainment and goods. The party itself was divided into a lower and upper tier based on demonstrated loyalty to revolutionary principles. The lower party were the bureaucracy that ran the welfare system, the nationalized media, and related services. The upper party were the party leadership who handled international affairs.

Brave New World had a society based on eugenics ideas widely popular within leftist circles until relatively recently. Each citizen was essentially a test tube baby artificially gestated and given the standard nutrient and oxygen exposure suitable for their preassigned class. They were then enrolled in basic class indoctrination to teach them to enjoy the things suitable for their class before being assigned an appropriate job and allowed to live their lives. Due to the artificial nature of reproduction in that society, all citizens were sterile and enjoyed strictly recreational sex with anyone willing. Drugs were legal, free, and highly advanced and allowed one to experience their choice of strength and duration of the high. A side effect of those drugs was to keep everyone youthful up until they died, at which point their corpse was taken to the incinerator to provide a form of green power.

Are those the only two choices?
Republicans are such binary people.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Where are people getting Reagan from though...? Bull Moose Progressive Party 1912-1916 is what I meant by the actual Progressive party in the side note of the OP.