Do You Support The "Gun Show Loophole?"

[Quantum Windbag]

Personally, I would think any logical person would want universal background checks. Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest ways to best make the system work rather than saying it won't work?

Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole.

More: Gun Show Loophole - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

Personally, I think logic tells me not to want the impossible.

 

[Dubya]

How do you implement a UBC in a verifiable manner?

It's easy to verify with universal registration that requires periodic renewal.

Can you say unconstitutional? Are you ever going to address the post I provided the color keyed response on, or are you admitting defeat on that one?

Can you say read? Reading into a court decision doesn't make registration unconstitutional and some areas require it.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Personally, I would think any logical person would want universal background checks. Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest ways to best make the system work rather than saying it won't work?

Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole.

More: Gun Show Loophole - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

Actually I would have no problem if they would make NICS available to the public where a seller could do a name and dob check. But if you start forcing records keeping requirements on non-dealers or other bureaucratic crap, then I would have objections.

I would have a big problem.. How long before people were running background checks on their date? Co-Worker? Neighbor? About ten minutes after the system was turned on.

 

[OKTexas]

Sorry, Mandatory Gun Registration Is Constitutional - Taking Liberties - CBS News

Your article talks about many posibilities, now let's look at reality. Seriously, how hard would it be to get SCOTUS to strike a registration scheme for law abiding citizens when criminals can't be prosecuted for not registering theirs. I think there would be a big 14th Amendment case there. I seriously doubt congress has the balls to pass a bill like that and if my state did, which they won't, I would be the first to file that suit.

 

[OKTexas]

It's easy to verify with universal registration that requires periodic renewal.

Can you say unconstitutional? Are you ever going to address the post I provided the color keyed response on, or are you admitting defeat on that one?

Can you say read? Reading into a court decision doesn't make registration unconstitutional and some areas require it.

So you are admitting defeat on that one post, I'd like you to put it on the record.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is the crux of the matter;
Some people think they can prevent a crime by removing the tools of the crime when in fact the tools will simply change and the crime will continue.
Then they will want to remove that tool thinking it will finally put an end to the crime. When the tool changes again the same process continues.
This is how it happened in England - one step at a time until all guns were removed from private hands but now the tool changed again and they are going to ban long kitchen knives because that is the tool used most often by criminals now. They have also enacted laws that make it a crime to defend yourself so you are supposed to vacate your home and let the criminal take what they want.

It is not the tool used - it is the user that commits the crime. Punish the criminal for committing the crime not everyone because they own the tools.

In the case of guns, it is the tool. Guns kill so easily that many of the deaths are a product of that quality.

I have many guns not one has went rouge and killed someone, I don't recall any guns ever busting out of a gun store and killing people.

 

[Dubya]

Can you say unconstitutional? Are you ever going to address the post I provided the color keyed response on, or are you admitting defeat on that one?

Can you say read? Reading into a court decision doesn't make registration unconstitutional and some areas require it.

So you are admitting defeat on that one post, I'd like you to put it on the record.

There aren't going to be successful court challenges against registration of firearms and you know it. Only fools think that's an issue.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Can you say read? Reading into a court decision doesn't make registration unconstitutional and some areas require it.

So you are admitting defeat on that one post, I'd like you to put it on the record.

There aren't going to be successful court challenges against registration of firearms and you know it. Only fools think that's an issue.

Which came first
Gun Confiscation
OR
Gun Registration

 

[Bfgrn]

Personally, I would think any logical person would want universal background checks. Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest ways to best make the system work rather than saying it won't work?

Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole.

More: Gun Show Loophole - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

Actually I would have no problem if they would make NICS available to the public where a seller could do a name and dob check. But if you start forcing records keeping requirements on non-dealers or other bureaucratic crap, then I would have objections.

Owning a firearm is a right, but selling firearms for profit is not. If a so called 'private seller' is burdened by too much records keeping etc, then he is NOT really Uncle Joe selling some of his collection, now is he? These so-called 'private sellers' are supposed to be making only occasional sales. According to federal law, they cannot be "engaged in the business" of selling firearms. But that's exactly what undercover investigators found. They found private sellers with large inventories doing a brisk business. In fact, one private seller acknowledged selling 348 guns in less than a year.

 

[rightwinger]

So you are admitting defeat on that one post, I'd like you to put it on the record.

There aren't going to be successful court challenges against registration of firearms and you know it. Only fools think that's an issue.

Which came first
Gun Confiscation
OR
Gun Registration

I register my car......don't worry much about confiscation

 

[GuyPinestra]

There aren't going to be successful court challenges against registration of firearms and you know it. Only fools think that's an issue.

Which came first
Gun Confiscation
OR
Gun Registration

I register my car......don't worry much about confiscation

Nobody wants that piece of shit, RW.

Everybody wants the guns...

 

[rightwinger]

Which came first
Gun Confiscation
OR
Gun Registration

I register my car......don't worry much about confiscation

Nobody wants that piece of shit, RW.

Everybody wants the guns...

NRA paranoia

We just don't want nut jobs having the guns of their choice when they decide to shoot up a bunch of first graders

 

[GuyPinestra]

I register my car......don't worry much about confiscation

Nobody wants that piece of shit, RW.

Everybody wants the guns...

NRA paranoia

We just don't want nut jobs having the guns of their choice when they decide to shoot up a bunch of first graders

We don't, either, and to claim we do is disingenuous. Now come up with something that will stop the nutjobs without fucking over law-abiding citizens.

So far you guys are batting 0-fer...

I have a suggestion for you, start with the mental health system actually REPORTING the nutjobs to the NICS database.

 

[Bfgrn]

Nobody wants that piece of shit, RW.

Everybody wants the guns...

NRA paranoia

We just don't want nut jobs having the guns of their choice when they decide to shoot up a bunch of first graders

We don't, either, and to claim we do is disingenuous. Now come up with something that will stop the nutjobs without fucking over law-abiding citizens.

So far you guys are batting 0-fer...

I have a suggestion for you, start with the mental health system actually REPORTING the nutjobs to the NICS database.

An inconvenience is not a 'fuck over'. You self absorbed anti American right wing turds believe you are 'entitled' to special treatment. You are not. Owning a firearm is a right, but that doesn't mean that right doesn't come with responsibility to other citizens.

Put on big boy pants, grow the fuck up and stop all the whining.

 

[Bfgrn]

Gun Murders Shot Up 25% After Missouri Repealed Universal Background Check Law

Universal background checks before gun purchases can have an enormous impact on reducing firearm-related deaths, according to testimony presented before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee this week.

While gun rights lobbyists, led by the National Rifle Association, claim criminal background checks before all purchases are impractical and unnecessary, research from the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research found that strict guidelines may actually reduce gun-related homicides.

Missouri, the site of President Barack Obama’s recent gun control speech, had a firm “permit-to-purchase” law in place until 2007, when it was repealed. The law -- which both the Missouri Sport Shooting Association and NRA helped overturn -- required Missouri residents to obtain a sheriff’s permit before purchasing a concealable weapon.

According to Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, that stipulation on individual sales may have saved lives. Testifying before the Senate on Tuesday, Webster said he conducted an analysis that found the expiration of the “permit-to-purchase” law was followed by a 25 percent spike in homicides over three years.

“Preliminary evidence suggests that the increase in the diversion of guns to criminals linked to the law’s repeal may have translated into increases in homicides committed with firearms,” Webster said in his written testimony to the Senate. “From 1999 through 2007, Missouri’s age-adjusted homicide rate was relatively stable, fluctuating around a mean of 4.66 per 100,000 population per year. In 2008, the first full year after the permit-to-purchase licensing law was repealed, the age-adjusted firearm homicide rate in Missouri increased sharply to 6.23 per 100,000 population, a 34 percent increase. For the post-repeal period of 2008-2010, the mean annual age-adjusted firearm homicide rate was 5.82, 25 percent above the pre-repeal mean.”

more

Written Testimony
Submitted for the record by Daniel W. Webster, ScD, MPH Professor and Director Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research

For the hearing before the Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Human Rights on:
“Proposals to Reduce Gun Violence: Protecting Our Communities While Respecting the Second Amendment.”
Tuesday February 12, 2013

Excerpt:

Opponents’ Claim #2: Gun control laws don’t work because criminals won’t obey them and will always find a way to get a gun through theft or the illegal market.

Evidence in Response: First, the logic of this argument is flawed. Using this logic, laws against drunk driving are pointless because drunks will always disobey those laws. Just as drunk driving laws provide law enforcement with the tools to arrest individuals who break those laws and deter others from driving drunk, laws such as background check requirements for all gun sales will help law enforcement combat illegal gun trafficking and keep guns from prohibited individuals.

Opponents of gun control point to the frequency with which criminals obtain firearms through unregulated private transactions as proof that regulations are pointless. However, I and many of the experts convened for our conference believe that the weaknesses in current federal firearms laws are the reason that many gun traffickers, criminals, underage youth, and other prohibited individuals are able to obtain firearms in the underground market.

 

[OODA_Loop]

I have a suggestion for you, start with the mental health system actually REPORTING the nutjobs to the NICS database.

We can't hold people accountable for their actions ........just the inanimate object.

Sorry.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Gun Murders Shot Up 25% After Missouri Repealed Universal Background Check Law

Universal background checks before gun purchases can have an enormous impact on reducing firearm-related deaths, according to testimony presented before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee this week.

While gun rights lobbyists, led by the National Rifle Association, claim criminal background checks before all purchases are impractical and unnecessary, research from the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research found that strict guidelines may actually reduce gun-related homicides.

Missouri, the site of President Barack Obama’s recent gun control speech, had a firm “permit-to-purchase” law in place until 2007, when it was repealed. The law -- which both the Missouri Sport Shooting Association and NRA helped overturn -- required Missouri residents to obtain a sheriff’s permit before purchasing a concealable weapon.

According to Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, that stipulation on individual sales may have saved lives. Testifying before the Senate on Tuesday, Webster said he conducted an analysis that found the expiration of the “permit-to-purchase” law was followed by a 25 percent spike in homicides over three years.

“Preliminary evidence suggests that the increase in the diversion of guns to criminals linked to the law’s repeal may have translated into increases in homicides committed with firearms,” Webster said in his written testimony to the Senate. “From 1999 through 2007, Missouri’s age-adjusted homicide rate was relatively stable, fluctuating around a mean of 4.66 per 100,000 population per year. In 2008, the first full year after the permit-to-purchase licensing law was repealed, the age-adjusted firearm homicide rate in Missouri increased sharply to 6.23 per 100,000 population, a 34 percent increase. For the post-repeal period of 2008-2010, the mean annual age-adjusted firearm homicide rate was 5.82, 25 percent above the pre-repeal mean.”

more

Written Testimony
Submitted for the record by Daniel W. Webster, ScD, MPH Professor and Director Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research

For the hearing before the Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Human Rights on:
“Proposals to Reduce Gun Violence: Protecting Our Communities While Respecting the Second Amendment.”
Tuesday February 12, 2013

Excerpt:

Opponents’ Claim #2: Gun control laws don’t work because criminals won’t obey them and will always find a way to get a gun through theft or the illegal market.

Evidence in Response: First, the logic of this argument is flawed. Using this logic, laws against drunk driving are pointless because drunks will always disobey those laws. Just as drunk driving laws provide law enforcement with the tools to arrest individuals who break those laws and deter others from driving drunk, laws such as background check requirements for all gun sales will help law enforcement combat illegal gun trafficking and keep guns from prohibited individuals.

Opponents of gun control point to the frequency with which criminals obtain firearms through unregulated private transactions as proof that regulations are pointless. However, I and many of the experts convened for our conference believe that the weaknesses in current federal firearms laws are the reason that many gun traffickers, criminals, underage youth, and other prohibited individuals are able to obtain firearms in the underground market.

So on the one hand you claim that regional laws are effective and on the other hand you claim that Chicago's laws are ineffective because they ARE regional.

Can you make up your mind, please?

 

[OriginalShroom]

I register my car......don't worry much about confiscation

Nobody wants that piece of shit, RW.

Everybody wants the guns...

NRA paranoia

We just don't want nut jobs having the guns of their choice when they decide to shoot up a bunch of first graders

The problem is that so many of your side have already said that anyone who wants to own guns are nuts.

Your side has a record of wanting to ban all guns from private ownership. Even though the SCotUS has ruled that there is an individual Right to own guns.

The ACLU won't defend the Individual Right to own a gun because they don't believe there is one, even after SCotUS rulings.

I find your croc tears hypocritical over the death of children by guns when you have supported Planned Parenthood ending the lives of 300,000 children a year.

 

[Bfgrn]

Gun Murders Shot Up 25% After Missouri Repealed Universal Background Check Law

Universal background checks before gun purchases can have an enormous impact on reducing firearm-related deaths, according to testimony presented before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee this week.

While gun rights lobbyists, led by the National Rifle Association, claim criminal background checks before all purchases are impractical and unnecessary, research from the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research found that strict guidelines may actually reduce gun-related homicides.

Missouri, the site of President Barack Obama’s recent gun control speech, had a firm “permit-to-purchase” law in place until 2007, when it was repealed. The law -- which both the Missouri Sport Shooting Association and NRA helped overturn -- required Missouri residents to obtain a sheriff’s permit before purchasing a concealable weapon.

According to Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, that stipulation on individual sales may have saved lives. Testifying before the Senate on Tuesday, Webster said he conducted an analysis that found the expiration of the “permit-to-purchase” law was followed by a 25 percent spike in homicides over three years.

“Preliminary evidence suggests that the increase in the diversion of guns to criminals linked to the law’s repeal may have translated into increases in homicides committed with firearms,” Webster said in his written testimony to the Senate. “From 1999 through 2007, Missouri’s age-adjusted homicide rate was relatively stable, fluctuating around a mean of 4.66 per 100,000 population per year. In 2008, the first full year after the permit-to-purchase licensing law was repealed, the age-adjusted firearm homicide rate in Missouri increased sharply to 6.23 per 100,000 population, a 34 percent increase. For the post-repeal period of 2008-2010, the mean annual age-adjusted firearm homicide rate was 5.82, 25 percent above the pre-repeal mean.”

more

Written Testimony
Submitted for the record by Daniel W. Webster, ScD, MPH Professor and Director Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research

For the hearing before the Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Human Rights on:
“Proposals to Reduce Gun Violence: Protecting Our Communities While Respecting the Second Amendment.”
Tuesday February 12, 2013

Excerpt:

Opponents’ Claim #2: Gun control laws don’t work because criminals won’t obey them and will always find a way to get a gun through theft or the illegal market.

Evidence in Response: First, the logic of this argument is flawed. Using this logic, laws against drunk driving are pointless because drunks will always disobey those laws. Just as drunk driving laws provide law enforcement with the tools to arrest individuals who break those laws and deter others from driving drunk, laws such as background check requirements for all gun sales will help law enforcement combat illegal gun trafficking and keep guns from prohibited individuals.

Opponents of gun control point to the frequency with which criminals obtain firearms through unregulated private transactions as proof that regulations are pointless. However, I and many of the experts convened for our conference believe that the weaknesses in current federal firearms laws are the reason that many gun traffickers, criminals, underage youth, and other prohibited individuals are able to obtain firearms in the underground market.

So one the one hand you claim that regional laws are effective and one the other hand you claim that Chicago's laws are ineffective because they ARE regional.

Can you make up your mind, please?

Just like I said, you right wing turds believe you are entitled. Entitled to an explanation without the responsibility of READING.

OK, I will be your knowledge 'nanny' this one time...

Furthermore, in an in-depth, multi-method study of the underground gun market in Chicago only twenty percent of male arrestees who participated in an anonymous survey reported that they had owned a handgun and sixty percent of those who did own one reported that it had taken them more than a week to search for and obtain a handgun. Criminals reported wariness of purchasing firearms from sellers they did not know or trust, a dearth of trusted suppliers of guns, and considerable mark-ups in price from the legal market.

Fourth, gun sales regulations do impact the illegal gun market. My research has shown that when states enact laws to increase gun seller and purchaser accountability including universal background checks, strong regulation and oversight of licensed gun dealers, and mandatory reporting of theft of loss of firearms, far fewer guns are diverted from the legal to the illegal market. Unfortunately, the success of these state gun laws in reducing the diversion of guns to criminals is undermined by gaps in federal laws which facilitate interstate trafficking of firearms from states with the weakest gun control laws to those with comprehensive policies to keep firearms from dangerous people.

 

[GuyPinestra]

So 80% of Chicago criminals don't own a gun, meaning that some portion of the remaining 20% are responsible for 500+ murders a year? Either Chicago has a LOT of criminals, or certain criminals are killing a LOT of people.

Oh, and according to the 2nd fucking Amendment I AM ENTITLED!