Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[bigrebnc1775]

Obama & Holder's weapons are still in the hands of brutal drug gangs. More will be slaughtered. Shame on the Democrat Bootlickers.

Call them what they are terrorists

Would that be "far left" terrorists?

I don't know if they have a political stance, I just call them terrorists.

 

[bobgnote]

But Punkotardy, the drug war killed Brian Terry and hundreds of thousands of other people, human misery is off the charts, the US has 5% of the world's population, and we fund 25% of the world's prisoners because the drug war hasn't "failed," yet.

Fucking FAIL, al-fucking-ready! That retard black Obamney can't think for his cult, so he keeps jacking off, imitating Republicans and their policies, and all he does is get in trouble! Eh? What if black Obamney didn't suck? Brian Terry might be alive, with thousands of other people, and hemp can help fight global climate change and the US trade deficit. But the Punkotardy factions don't know value, past the price, on their assholes!

Let's at least have our shit lined up, so we can duplicate Henry Ford's by now ancient results, of formulating ethanol and indestructible hemp plastic, so we can make something, before the Chinese get to making every last goddamned thing, and we do NOT make anything, worth exporting, except for cows!

On a side-note, the War on Drugs has failed miserably.

No it hasn't.

William F. Buckley, Jr. Quotes - BrainyQuote

There are Millions & Millions of Americans locked away in our Prisons who just don't belong there.

No there aren't.

"Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could."
-William F. Buckley, Jr.

Don't like that one?

William Buckley Quotes | Successories | Quote Database | Motivational Posters

"One must bear in mind that the expansion of federal activity is a form of eating for politicians."
-William F. Buckley, Jr.

Now just who the fuck do you suppose Bill Buckley was, Punkotardy? It seems you punk-ass, wingpunk, neo-con shitbags forgot anything and anybody worth knowing, in the course of your anal orgy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No it hasn't.

I can think of no more abject failure imaginable.

 

[Dr.Drock]

How can you blame just one man for overall prinicples that have been in play for both parties for the better part of a 100 years?

Isn't that throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I can't, it's all of their fault collectively, not just Obama, but not excluding Obama.

But I'm not going to give a mob boss glowing reviews all day and let him hide under the excuse of "his dad and grandpa did it too" like you're willing to stoop to.

Hahahahaha, glowing reviews? All day? Just not going to speciously compare Obama and F&F with Nixon and Watergate as in anyway simular.

More in common with Nixon secret bombing of Cambodia to Obamas' Drone war.

Or, Nixon's war on drugs.

Or Nixons fight for universal healthcare.....

Yes, glowing reviews. 95-99% of your posts are either praising Obama, deflecting blame or downplaying his problems.

 

[The T]

I can't, it's all of their fault collectively, not just Obama, but not excluding Obama.

But I'm not going to give a mob boss glowing reviews all day and let him hide under the excuse of "his dad and grandpa did it too" like you're willing to stoop to.

Hahahahaha, glowing reviews? All day? Just not going to speciously compare Obama and F&F with Nixon and Watergate as in anyway simular.

More in common with Nixon secret bombing of Cambodia to Obamas' Drone war.

Or, Nixon's war on drugs.

Or Nixons fight for universal healthcare.....

Yes, glowing reviews. 95-99% of your posts are either praising Obama, deflecting blame or downplaying his problems.

Blindboob is one of many spokestwerps for the failed O.

 

[Vast LWC]

When you have "whistleblowers" giving information about activity that is EXTREMELY unethical, and possibly unlawful, it must be investigated. In this country (at least until recently), the integrity of the gov't was very important to the gov't and the taxpayers. We do not know what was given by the whistleblowers.... we do know it was enough to start an investigation. Now, the administration has to follow the law, or again the President will break his oath to uphold the Constitution.

There was one guy, and the actions he reported on turned out to be neither unethical or unlawful.

As previously stated, the guns sold that were under surveillance would have been sold anyway. Fast and Furious simply tried to watch where they were going, so they could catch the buyers.

There is nothing wrong with that, either legally, or ethically.

The fact that they FAILED to catch the end buyers proves nothing but that the laws are inadequate and possibly that many of the people involved were incompetent, but not that they were unethical, and certainly not that they were criminal.

I get it, that there are many people that think the corrupt that are in office because of them will not turn on "them". This administration turns on every person/group that tries to cooperate or assist it.

For instance?

They will embrace that corruption and vote for a fraud, again. Then the same people that hold no politicians (on their ticket) to standards will whine and cry the corporations (mainly run by corrupt ex-politicians) are evil and don't care about the "little guy". Know that "you" gave them the power to treat you like dirt, and you are choosing to put in a whole administration that is (IMHO) more corrupt than any administration in the history of this nation.

Complete and utter garbage. This administration isn't even in the top 30.

Not only does their leader hate this country, he has convinced a huge percentage that by hurting other people, it will make their lives better, and they (the voters) will not think about voting for what is best for the country, only that they have a chance at hurting someone else. It is "envy" at its worst.

Every word you just said after "Constitution" shows exactly what your motivations are, and it is obvious from this that you have no interest in discovering what went wrong with Fast and Furious.

Instead, like Issa and his cronies, you wish to carry on a witch hunt in the hopes that someone will do something that you can charge them with, like accidentally give false information so they can be charged with perjury.

Shameful is much to tame of a term for it.

 

[thanatos144]

When you read this thread you can honestly see how morally bankrupt liberals are....They would rather say ignorant shit to protect someone having to show the truth than to seek the truth itself.....Why is death so passe to you liberals?

 

[Vast LWC]

Abatis,

Since replying to you point by point would take up a few pages, at least, I'd like to reply with a short retort:

I find your argument to be well-formed, and probably the most persuasive posting I've seen on this board in quite a log time, and I find it quite impressive. Therefore I am pos repping you for some really good stuff.

However, while I do see a whole lot of incompetence going on in everything you posted, I do not see definitive evidence of either criminal activity on the part of government officials, or of a conspiracy on the part of government officials.

Therefore, while I see your points, I do not agree with your conclusions.

I agree that F&F was rife with incompetence, and that, combined with the weakness of the laws themselves, both local and federal, created a hell of a mess.

If this was simply a departmental review or multiple departmental reviews on the part of Congress, then I'd be right there with you, but it is not.

Instead, this has been a circus from the very beginning. Issa began these hearings based on the premise that there was criminal behavior involved and that that is what he would be searching for.

He, and others in Congress, then preceded to use the media to create the clear implication that there was in fact criminal behavior being carried out on the part of the ATF and the DoJ as a part of some vast conspiracy to take people's guns away.

However, there is no proof of a conspiracy to create this mess, or of criminal activity on the part of the people that created this mess. There is simply a whole mess of incompetence.

The worst thing you could charge the people involved in this case with is "reckless endangerment".

And now, lacking any evidence of criminal wrongdoing, Issa is trying to trap Holder into a perjury charge that is unrelated to the operation altogether, but has more to do with Holder not being aware of all the details and not wanting to admit it.

 

[Vast LWC]

And that is why F&F is not comparable to Watergate, which is where I believe this entire discussion started.

In Watergate, there was definite evidence of specific criminal behavior, not just incompetence, before the Congressional hearings even began.

There was also definite evidence of a conspiracy to commit the crime in question, both in physical evidence, and in witness testimony.

 

[logical4u]

When you have "whistleblowers" giving information about activity that is EXTREMELY unethical, and possibly unlawful, it must be investigated. In this country (at least until recently), the integrity of the gov't was very important to the gov't and the taxpayers. We do not know what was given by the whistleblowers.... we do know it was enough to start an investigation. Now, the administration has to follow the law, or again the President will break his oath to uphold the Constitution.

There was one guy, and the actions he reported on turned out to be neither unethical or unlawful.

As previously stated, the guns sold that were under surveillance would have been sold anyway. Fast and Furious simply tried to watch where they were going, so they could catch the buyers.

There is nothing wrong with that, either legally, or ethically.

The fact that they FAILED to catch the end buyers proves nothing but that the laws are inadequate and possibly that many of the people involved were incompetent, but not that they were unethical, and certainly not that they were criminal.

I get it, that there are many people that think the corrupt that are in office because of them will not turn on "them". This administration turns on every person/group that tries to cooperate or assist it.

For instance?

They will embrace that corruption and vote for a fraud, again. Then the same people that hold no politicians (on their ticket) to standards will whine and cry the corporations (mainly run by corrupt ex-politicians) are evil and don't care about the "little guy". Know that "you" gave them the power to treat you like dirt, and you are choosing to put in a whole administration that is (IMHO) more corrupt than any administration in the history of this nation.

Complete and utter garbage. This administration isn't even in the top 30.

Not only does their leader hate this country, he has convinced a huge percentage that by hurting other people, it will make their lives better, and they (the voters) will not think about voting for what is best for the country, only that they have a chance at hurting someone else. It is "envy" at its worst.

Every word you just said after "Constitution" shows exactly what your motivations are, and it is obvious from this that you have no interest in discovering what went wrong with Fast and Furious.

Instead, like Issa and his cronies, you wish to carry on a witch hunt in the hopes that someone will do something that you can charge them with, like accidentally give false information so they can be charged with perjury.

Shameful is much to tame of a term for it.

You will not acknowledge the problems found with the fast and furious that have been presented here. Corruption? Please list something the President has done, that has improved the economy or improved the standing of the USA in the world. His Chicago tactics have left a trail of broken promises, a broken economy, broken lives, broken people, and yet too many people will vote for him again, just because of the color of his skin. If he was white, EVERYONE would think he was incompetent. But because he is black, too many people will kiss his....

 

[taichiliberal]

Stop being a wussy, 'T'......either you can or cannot refute the information I provided regarding Issa's statement. Anything else is just pure neocon/teabagger bluff and bluster on your part. Grow up, T.

Yeah, though he's right about the source...

It's one thing to write off a source if it's their opinion on something...

It's quite another thing if the source is making a direct, verifiable quote.

Even though I may disagree with the ideological/political bent of a source, I'll always read the material provided....that way I can determine whats correct or incorrect, and debate accordingly.

 

[Too Tall]

When you have "whistleblowers" giving information about activity that is EXTREMELY unethical, and possibly unlawful, it must be investigated. In this country (at least until recently), the integrity of the gov't was very important to the gov't and the taxpayers. We do not know what was given by the whistleblowers.... we do know it was enough to start an investigation. Now, the administration has to follow the law, or again the President will break his oath to uphold the Constitution.

There was one guy, and the actions he reported on turned out to be neither unethical or unlawful.

As previously stated, the guns sold that were under surveillance would have been sold anyway. Fast and Furious simply tried to watch where they were going, so they could catch the buyers.

There is nothing wrong with that, either legally, or ethically.

The fact that they FAILED to catch the end buyers proves nothing but that the laws are inadequate and possibly that many of the people involved were incompetent, but not that they were unethical, and certainly not that they were criminal.

I get it, that there are many people that think the corrupt that are in office because of them will not turn on "them". This administration turns on every person/group that tries to cooperate or assist it.

For instance?

They will embrace that corruption and vote for a fraud, again. Then the same people that hold no politicians (on their ticket) to standards will whine and cry the corporations (mainly run by corrupt ex-politicians) are evil and don't care about the "little guy". Know that "you" gave them the power to treat you like dirt, and you are choosing to put in a whole administration that is (IMHO) more corrupt than any administration in the history of this nation.

Complete and utter garbage. This administration isn't even in the top 30.

Not only does their leader hate this country, he has convinced a huge percentage that by hurting other people, it will make their lives better, and they (the voters) will not think about voting for what is best for the country, only that they have a chance at hurting someone else. It is "envy" at its worst.

Every word you just said after "Constitution" shows exactly what your motivations are, and it is obvious from this that you have no interest in discovering what went wrong with Fast and Furious.

Instead, like Issa and his cronies, you wish to carry on a witch hunt in the hopes that someone will do something that you can charge them with, like accidentally give false information so they can be charged with perjury.

Shameful is much to tame of a term for it.

Scooter Libby does come to mind.

 

[Vanquish]

The Fortune magazine article says everything anyone needs to know about the subject. This whole thing is a witch hunt.

so..NO...it's not worse than watergate. Republicans have been trying to get out of the shadow of that shit for decades...and it's shameful how they try.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And that is why F&F is not comparable to Watergate, which is where I believe this entire discussion started.

In Watergate, there was definite evidence of specific criminal behavior, not just incompetence, before the Congressional hearings even began.

There was also definite evidence of a conspiracy to commit the crime in question, both in physical evidence, and in witness testimony.

You should go back and read the Watergate coverage from the time. No one gave it a second thought before Nixon stepped in and tried to cover it up months after the burglary.

 

[paulitician]

Most of Holder's weapons are still not accounted for. More will be slaughtered with his weapons. This awful nightmare will go on for a very long time.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Vast LWC]

You should go back and read the Watergate coverage from the time. No one gave it a second thought before Nixon stepped in and tried to cover it up months after the burglary.

That may be true, but just because the media didn't cover something, or wasn't necessarily told about something doesn't mean it didn't exist.

And it did in fact exist. The timeline of evidence discovery is clear.

Remember QW, we didn't have the 24-hour news cycle back then.

 

[Vast LWC]

Most of Holder's weapons are still not accounted for. More will be slaughtered with his weapons. This awful nightmare will go on for a very long time.

You really are a one-trick pony aren't ya?

 

[Too Tall]

The Fortune magazine article says everything anyone needs to know about the subject. This whole thing is a witch hunt.

so..NO...it's not worse than watergate. Republicans have been trying to get out of the shadow of that shit for decades...and it's shameful how they try.

I agree. After all, there were dozens of American citizens killed during that third rate burglary that was for political gain. Only one, so far, by the intentional selling of assault rifles to Mexican criminals.

All the Watergate investigation was about is what did the President know and when did he know it. It is probably racist to ask the same questions of our present President and/or Attorney General.

 

[Too Tall]

Most of Holder's weapons are still not accounted for. More will be slaughtered with his weapons. This awful nightmare will go on for a very long time.

You really are a one-trick pony aren't ya?

Facts are rather hard for you to deal with aren't they!