Does anyone not mind the government gathering their phone information?

[flacaltenn]

Yes, because they have no right to collect that data in the first place.

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

 

[bendog]

Well, if you don't want your insuror and other manftrs of similar stuff to know you bought something, don't use credit cards. Shit, that stuffs been tracked for years, and not by the govt. Fill a prescription online sometime, and sit back and watch the email spam come in. LOL

If you pay cash, or maybe a check, in person at a retail outlet, then arguably you have an expectation of privacy. A credit card? fahgetaboutit. I drive out of state and buy gas with my credit card, it gets flagged. Credit card companies track useage for security and credit info. What you buy is not subject to any expectation of privacy.

 

[bendog]

Yes, because they have no right to collect that data in the first place.

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

Exactly. Our only protection is in penalties for govt employees who would use them for reasons not stated by law. In theory, the patriot act prevents non-terror uses.

However, if anyone doesn't think their credit card companines, their cell phone and internet providers, social media ... frigging online games .... don't data mine ... they are naive fools.

 

[Osomir]

Yes, because they have no right to collect that data in the first place.

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

The program isn't even designed to target US citizens, we are externalities to the program itself. It is also a program that is vetted by Congress, so once again, I'm not particularly concerned about it at the moment. If it starts to be grossly abused then of course I'll be worried and call for its dismantling, but I haven't really come across any evidence of that thus far.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Sent Anthrax to the NSA, I think they'd like to listen to to the "Spreading the Disease" CD while going through our email and phone conversations

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Xuo4PNfR4&list=PLEBD306BCC6CBB826]Anthrax -Spreading The Disease - 01- A.I.R - YouTube[/ame]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Verizon had better be leery, I smell a lawsuit. I've actually considered drafting up one myself, and switching phone carriers. They are going to lose customers over this.

The last time a lawsuit was in the works against Verizon for doing this, the Republican Congress passed a law retroactively granting them immunity.

And no, they aren't going to lose any customers. Did you quit your phone company in 2006 over it?

All of them did it. Except Qwest.

2006?

Have you ever heard of Echelon or Carnivore?

Global Crossing?

 

[Osomir]

Sent Anthrax to the NSA, I think they'd like to listen to to the "Spreading the Disease" CD while going through our email and phone conversations

The data collected aren't phone conversations. They are call records.

 

[boedicca]

Sent Anthrax to the NSA, I think they'd like to listen to to the "Spreading the Disease" CD while going through our email and phone conversations

The data collected aren't phone conversations. They are call records.

And emails, web searches, and credit card charges....

 

[bendog]

Sent Anthrax to the NSA, I think they'd like to listen to to the "Spreading the Disease" CD while going through our email and phone conversations

The data collected aren't phone conversations. They are call records.

Exactly, and the second I contracted with verizon (actually att for me) to provide cell phone service, I agreed to let them have that info, and not just the person whom I dialed ... and there went my expectation of privacy.

The content of the call is hopefully not disclosed without going through the FISA restrictions on warrantless searches, which require some probable cause to listen in.

 

[Osomir]

And emails, web searches, and credit card charges....

Of non-US persons located outside of the country.

Why NSA's PRISM Program Makes Sense - Forbes

once again we are more so externalities associated with foreign persons of interest.

 

[bendog]

Sent Anthrax to the NSA, I think they'd like to listen to to the "Spreading the Disease" CD while going through our email and phone conversations

The data collected aren't phone conversations. They are call records.

And emails, web searches, and credit card charges....

well, so far the emails are supposedly incoming from overseas. There is no privacy for credit card charges. Those are routinely monitored by banks and people who sell stuff. Mailing lists are commonly sold between retailers.

I'm not sure what searches web search results are subject to. If it's simply capturing your ISP when you access a site the NSA suspects has evil doers, then I don't see the 4th amend issue. you have not communicated anything. It's no different that putting up a camera and seeing who goes in a door from a street to a private building.

 

[Osomir]

Don't get me wrong, I'm wary about such a program and it is something that should have close tabs kept on it (which is where Congress comes into play) but it doesn't seem like it is currently being seriously misused or even really directed towards the American people.

 

[Katzndogz]

You don't know HOW this information would be used. Six months ago what would the words "pressure cooker" mean to you? Someone making a purchase of a pressure cooker today will immediately raise a flag. How many people have been arrested for possession of a pressure cooker since? I can name two right off the bat. Suppose you used your credit card to buy a pressure cooker then sent an e-mail to your brother in law about the remote controlled car you got your son for his birthday? You have just advertised to the government that you own the makings of a bomb.

They will take what they can, then build a case using whatever they have.

 

[beagle9]

I've got nothing to hide, but I sure as heck don't want the government gathering information on me. Who I talk to and associate with is my business.

But is there anyone who thinks the government should be monitoring your phone records?

This kind of stuff could set back technology in certain fields for decades, and also it could cast a dark light on it for millions of Americans who have had their fun over time with such technologies in which have been created for them, but yet they will soon become anti-technology when they figure it will be or is set to be used against them in ways that end their freedoms and their privacy as they have known it for ever and a day now in America. Corporations should be livid over the government using their technology in ways that seek to threaten the very privacy in which they have been given access to in trust there of by U.S Citizens, and for which has been a privacy that their customers have believed in for decades in this nation.

I remember people back in the old days saying that a judge has to issue a court order for any private records to be tapped on any citizen, and that the court order would be coupled with a warrant for such activity. The nation and it's corporations may have been duped by the government now, who has recognized these technologies as possible political warring tools against their political enemies, and this could easily go on under the guise of combating terrorism and foreign enemies within the nation now. Any investigations launched where such technologies are used against an American citizen, should have to be disclosed immediately to all parties involved, and a subpoena should be issued for the records to be tapped by a court ordered type document to be given to all parties involved, and it best be a super good reason for such activities to take place or (imho) the feds should be left wide open for huge lawsuits to prevail against them as a result of, and also as a checks and balancing placed upon them just as it should be in such cases always. I've been listening to the buzz on talk radio shows during the day, and this is my take on what I have been hearing, now if I am wrong about privacy being a huge deal to most all American citizens in this nation, then I apologize for not seeing that Americans may want to live in Nazi Germany now instead of America. It appears that Hitler may be rising in spirit again, and this in all that we are seeing now transforming in America. Am I over emphasizing or over shooting this issue maybe ?

Google getting in bed with the feds against it's consumers (imo), could be a death sentence for Google I do believe eventually, as the Americans won't take kindly to Google betraying them in such a way, so the government may have to buy Google's technology before they fall, as it appears that the Americans may give them the thumbs down if they have sold them out to an ever increasing snooping government.

 

[Osomir]

You don't know HOW this information would be used. Six months ago what would the words "pressure cooker" mean to you? Someone making a purchase of a pressure cooker today will immediately raise a flag. How many people have been arrested for possession of a pressure cooker since? I can name two right off the bat. Suppose you used your credit card to buy a pressure cooker then sent an e-mail to your brother in law about the remote controlled car you got your son for his birthday? You have just advertised to the government that you own the makings of a bomb.

They will take what they can, then build a case using whatever they have.

links to the two people that you can name who have been arrested for owning a pressure cooker?

 

[flacaltenn]

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

The program isn't even designed to target US citizens, we are externalities to the program itself. It is also a program that is vetted by Congress, so once again, I'm not particularly concerned about it at the moment. If it starts to be grossly abused then of course I'll be worried and call for its dismantling, but I haven't really come across any evidence of that thus far.

Please read parts of this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/7339759-post1.html and leave a post there telling me how you're not concerned about the govt tracking those details of your life from the phone datarecords.

You can tell yourself, the program was not designed to target you -- but the recent revelations make it quite clear -- the courts and the "overseers" have changed this into a whopping huge fishing expedition. And YOUR DATA is DEFINATELY there..

 

[beagle9]

You don't know HOW this information would be used. Six months ago what would the words "pressure cooker" mean to you? Someone making a purchase of a pressure cooker today will immediately raise a flag. How many people have been arrested for possession of a pressure cooker since? I can name two right off the bat. Suppose you used your credit card to buy a pressure cooker then sent an e-mail to your brother in law about the remote controlled car you got your son for his birthday? You have just advertised to the government that you own the makings of a bomb.

They will take what they can, then build a case using whatever they have.

The Nazi's I bet were experts at what you say in which could happen or has happened now in America, so welcome to the new Nazi Germany maybe ?

 

[Osomir]

Please read parts of this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/7339759-post1.html and leave a post there telling me how you're not concerned about the govt tracking those details of your life from the phone datarecords.

You can tell yourself, the program was not designed to target you -- but the recent revelations make it quite clear -- the courts and the "overseers" have changed this into a whopping huge fishing expedition. And YOUR DATA is DEFINATELY there..

Well this is just the thing, your presentation makes it seem like there is some guy with headphones on tracking me personally right now, but that isn't really what is happening, chances are that none of my data has been accessed. I'm not actively being stalked by the government here, nor is the program designed to actively stalk people like me.

Let me know when that changes and then I'll be more worried and join the fight against it.

 

[flacaltenn]

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

Exactly. Our only protection is in penalties for govt employees who would use them for reasons not stated by law. In theory, the patriot act prevents non-terror uses.

However, if anyone doesn't think their credit card companines, their cell phone and internet providers, social media ... frigging online games .... don't data mine ... they are naive fools.

In theory --- according to the lousy excuse from the Dir. Nat. Intelligience today, the Patriot act would have protected the 9-11 hijackers from being swept into the phone records simply because they reside in the US. If that's the case --- what good is the program or the PATRIOT act protection clause?

All they would have have to do is not call out of country. There are other ways to send sporadic messages to coordinate an attack like that..

IN PRACTICE -- they are tracking our associations, our locations, and the content of our Internet communications.. We're beyond that discovery today.. Even if some people are still quoting the promises that were made and broken..

I can deal with getting data-mined by Google or Yahoo.. The worst that can happen is I get spammed. That's nothing compared to what happened just recently to those political people applying for NonProfit status with the IRS.. THAT --- was protected as well.. Wasn't it??

 

[beagle9]

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

The program isn't even designed to target US citizens, we are externalities to the program itself. It is also a program that is vetted by Congress, so once again, I'm not particularly concerned about it at the moment. If it starts to be grossly abused then of course I'll be worried and call for its dismantling, but I haven't really come across any evidence of that thus far.

Please read parts of this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/7339759-post1.html and leave a post there telling me how you're not concerned about the govt tracking those details of your life from the phone datarecords.

You can tell yourself, the program was not designed to target you -- but the recent revelations make it quite clear -- the courts and the "overseers" have changed this into a whopping huge fishing expedition. And YOUR DATA is DEFINATELY there..

I saw somewhere these words that say "the devil is the accuser" of the brethren, so then think about the vast tools at his disposal now in which to use against those who oppose him in these latter days. No I'm not talking about Obama as the devil either..........Makes one think about where we are now in the midst of time doesn't it ? Is it not that what the bible speaks of is coming true every single day in the world, just as we see it all unfolding right before our very own eyes here in America ?