Does anyone not mind the government gathering their phone information?

[flacaltenn]

Please read parts of this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/7339759-post1.html and leave a post there telling me how you're not concerned about the govt tracking those details of your life from the phone datarecords.

You can tell yourself, the program was not designed to target you -- but the recent revelations make it quite clear -- the courts and the "overseers" have changed this into a whopping huge fishing expedition. And YOUR DATA is DEFINATELY there..

Well this is just the thing, your presentation makes it seem like there is some guy with headphones on tracking me personally right now, but that isn't really what is happening, chances are that none of my data has been accessed. I'm not actively being stalked by the government here, nor is the program designed to actively stalk people like me.

Let me know when that changes and then I'll be more worried and join the fight against it.

I have some familiarity with data mining, artificial intelligience and how the Intelligience agencies operate. Let me explain to you what they are doing with your data.

They are looking for unnatural or suspicious correlations and juxtapositions of associations, travel, purchases, personal details, ect... Your data is being compared to patterns much like a virus scan works on your computer. Except that it's LEARNING what the viruses look like by scanning everyone's computer and relating performance issues with patterns file in the digital files.. You are being scanned.

Depending on WHO WRITES the virus file definitions -- they can be using the same tool each day for learning how to find Mid-East terrorists, Domestic Terrorists, Drug Rings, Weapons Traffic, or even Gang membership..

OR this scheme could THINK it's learning valuable patterns that finger suspicious activity, but it's Full of Crap and starts fingering stuff that's completely innocent.. Wanna risk that?

Or tomorrow -- they could tune that to religious orgs, or Communists or Libertarians or folks who have fertilizer in their garages.

Your data is there. If you call to Yemen or Syria , likely you become "a person of interest".

If you are in the construction biz and order dynamite on-line --- you get flagged. If you have family in IRAN -- you get flagged.

You want to risk this? For what reason??? Are you THAT SCARED????

 

[Katzndogz]

You don't know HOW this information would be used. Six months ago what would the words "pressure cooker" mean to you? Someone making a purchase of a pressure cooker today will immediately raise a flag. How many people have been arrested for possession of a pressure cooker since? I can name two right off the bat. Suppose you used your credit card to buy a pressure cooker then sent an e-mail to your brother in law about the remote controlled car you got your son for his birthday? You have just advertised to the government that you own the makings of a bomb.

They will take what they can, then build a case using whatever they have.

links to the two people that you can name who have been arrested for owning a pressure cooker?

Sure! I had no idea you didn't know much about the subject.

Saudi man with pressure cooker arrested at Detroit airport - CBS News

Fort Worth Teen Arrested With Pressure Cooker, Fertilizer In Trunk « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

Those were the two I had in mind.

 

[boedicca]

I have a bunch of familiarity with data mining, artificial intelligience and how the Intelligience agencies operate. Let me explain to you what they are doing with your data.

They are looking for unnatural or suspicious correlations and juxtapositions of associations, travel, purchases, personal details, ect... Your data is being compared to patterns much like a virus scan works on your computer.

Depending on WHO WRITES the virus file definitions -- they can be using the same tool today for Mid-East terrorists, Domestic Terrorists, Drug Rings, Weapons Traffic, or even Gang membership..

Or tomorrow -- they could tune that to religious orgs, or Communists or Libertarians or folks who have fertilizer in their garages.

Your data is there. If you call to Yemen or Syria , likely you become "a person of interest".

If you are in the construction biz and order dynamite on-line --- you get flagged. If you have family in IRAN -- you get flagged.

You want to risk this? For what reason??? Are you THAT SCARED????

Or if you donate to the RNC or a Prolife organization...you can be targeted as an Enemy. That's where this is going, bub.

 

[bendog]

Please read parts of this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/7339759-post1.html and leave a post there telling me how you're not concerned about the govt tracking those details of your life from the phone datarecords.

You can tell yourself, the program was not designed to target you -- but the recent revelations make it quite clear -- the courts and the "overseers" have changed this into a whopping huge fishing expedition. And YOUR DATA is DEFINATELY there..

Well this is just the thing, your presentation makes it seem like there is some guy with headphones on tracking me personally right now, but that isn't really what is happening, chances are that none of my data has been accessed. I'm not actively being stalked by the government here, nor is the program designed to actively stalk people like me.

Let me know when that changes and then I'll be more worried and join the fight against it.

Yes.

I have a bunch of familiarity with data mining, artificial intelligience and how the Intelligience agencies operate. Let me explain to you what they are doing with your data.

They are looking for unnatural or suspicious correlations and juxtapositions of associations, travel, purchases, personal details, ect... Your data is being compared to patterns much like a virus scan works on your computer.

Depending on WHO WRITES the virus file definitions -- they can be using the same tool today for Mid-East terrorists, Domestic Terrorists, Drug Rings, Weapons Traffic, or even Gang membership..

Or tomorrow -- they could tune that to religious orgs, or Communists or Libertarians or folks who have fertilizer in their garages.

Your data is there. If you call to Yemen or Syria , likely you become "a person of interest".

If you are in the construction biz and order dynamite on-line --- you get flagged. If you have family in IRAN -- you get flagged.

You want to risk this? For what reason??? Are you THAT SCARED????

Yes. I'm quite happy if anyone calling Yeman or Syria ... or Chechneya is flagged

So long as the result is the overseas number is then flagged to see who is calling it.

 

[Osomir]

Well this is just the thing, your presentation makes it seem like there is some guy with

I have some familiarity with data mining, artificial intelligience and how the Intelligience agencies operate. Let me explain to you what they are doing with your data.

They are looking for unnatural or suspicious correlations and juxtapositions of associations, travel, purchases, personal details, ect... Your data is being compared to patterns much like a virus scan works on your computer. Except that it's LEARNING what the viruses look like..

Depending on WHO WRITES the virus file definitions -- they can be using the same tool today for Mid-East terrorists, Domestic Terrorists, Drug Rings, Weapons Traffic, or even Gang membership..

OR this scheme could THINK it's learning valuable patterns that finger suspicious activity, but it's Full of Crap and starts fingering stuff that's completely innocent.. Wanna risk that?

Or tomorrow -- they could tune that to religious orgs, or Communists or Libertarians or folks who have fertilizer in their garages.

Your data is there. If you call to Yemen or Syria , likely you become "a person of interest".

If you are in the construction biz and order dynamite on-line --- you get flagged. If you have family in IRAN -- you get flagged.

You want to risk this? For what reason??? Are you THAT SCARED????

That's potential, but that isn't what the PRISM project is doing, unless you'd like to post some supporting evidence for that.

 

[beagle9]

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

Exactly. Our only protection is in penalties for govt employees who would use them for reasons not stated by law. In theory, the patriot act prevents non-terror uses.

However, if anyone doesn't think their credit card companines, their cell phone and internet providers, social media ... frigging online games .... don't data mine ... they are naive fools.

In theory --- according to the lousy excuse from the Dir. Nat. Intelligience today, the Patriot act would have protected the 9-11 hijackers from being swept into the phone records simply because they reside in the US. If that's the case --- what good is the program or the PATRIOT act protection clause?

All they would have have to do is not call out of country. There are other ways to send sporadic messages to coordinate an attack like that..

IN PRACTICE -- they are tracking our associations, our locations, and the content of our Internet communications.. We're beyond that discovery today.. Even if some people are still quoting the promises that were made and broken..

I can deal with getting data-mined by Google or Yahoo.. The worst that can happen is I get spammed. That's nothing compared to what happened just recently to those political people applying for NonProfit status with the IRS.. THAT --- was protected as well.. Wasn't it??

Exactly my thoughts when coupled with the IRS scandal, otherwise if they will do that then what won't they do to get dirt on their supposed political enemies under the guise of and/or the deeming it a so called terrorist enemy investigation or maybe not if caught snooping ? The IRS scandal should be the first sign of what these people are capable of with such powers, and the Americans should push back hard against these people who will use what ever is at their disposal to attack their so called political enemies in this nation under the guise of fighting terrorist or terrorism. If the agenda's weren't so strong, people may let it slide, but with the rhetoric that has come out of this administration, and the actual facts that support suspicions of the administration, how can trust be mended or accepted now in regards to the citizens privacy and liberties in the nation ?

 

[Osomir]

Saudi man with pressure cooker arrested at Detroit airport - CBS News

He wasn't simply arrested for having a pressure cooker, we was detained for suspicious behavior such as claiming that he had it because they didn't sell them in the US.

Fort Worth Teen Arrested With Pressure Cooker, Fertilizer In Trunk « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

The teenager's car was searched because he appeared to be high, and he was questioned for having multiple bomb components in his car, not just a pressure cooker. He was jailed for possession of drugs, not a pressure cooker.

 

[BlindBoo]

I suspect this is a ploy to save the post office. If nobody trusts the privacy of phone calls and text messages, they will be forced to return to the days of snail mail.

The Post Office needs saving from Congress.


Read more: The Post Office Is Not Broke | The Nation

 

[flacaltenn]

I have a bunch of familiarity with data mining, artificial intelligience and how the Intelligience agencies operate. Let me explain to you what they are doing with your data.

They are looking for unnatural or suspicious correlations and juxtapositions of associations, travel, purchases, personal details, ect... Your data is being compared to patterns much like a virus scan works on your computer.

Depending on WHO WRITES the virus file definitions -- they can be using the same tool today for Mid-East terrorists, Domestic Terrorists, Drug Rings, Weapons Traffic, or even Gang membership..

Or tomorrow -- they could tune that to religious orgs, or Communists or Libertarians or folks who have fertilizer in their garages.

Your data is there. If you call to Yemen or Syria , likely you become "a person of interest".

If you are in the construction biz and order dynamite on-line --- you get flagged. If you have family in IRAN -- you get flagged.

You want to risk this? For what reason??? Are you THAT SCARED????

Or if you donate to the RNC or a Prolife organization...you can be targeted as an Enemy. That's where this is going, bub.

Or if PRISM marks the post I wrote above and noted "fertilizer" in conjunction with Syria or Yemen.. I pretty much figure that the PRISM servers are sucking for air today trying to make sense of all this outrage.

Recognize your NAME??

Here PRISM PRISM come PRISM SIT Good boy PRISM

 

[flacaltenn]

Well this is just the thing, your presentation makes it seem like there is some guy with

I have some familiarity with data mining, artificial intelligience and how the Intelligience agencies operate. Let me explain to you what they are doing with your data.

They are looking for unnatural or suspicious correlations and juxtapositions of associations, travel, purchases, personal details, ect... Your data is being compared to patterns much like a virus scan works on your computer. Except that it's LEARNING what the viruses look like..

Depending on WHO WRITES the virus file definitions -- they can be using the same tool today for Mid-East terrorists, Domestic Terrorists, Drug Rings, Weapons Traffic, or even Gang membership..

OR this scheme could THINK it's learning valuable patterns that finger suspicious activity, but it's Full of Crap and starts fingering stuff that's completely innocent.. Wanna risk that?

Or tomorrow -- they could tune that to religious orgs, or Communists or Libertarians or folks who have fertilizer in their garages.

Your data is there. If you call to Yemen or Syria , likely you become "a person of interest".

If you are in the construction biz and order dynamite on-line --- you get flagged. If you have family in IRAN -- you get flagged.

You want to risk this? For what reason??? Are you THAT SCARED????

That's potential, but that isn't what the PRISM project is doing, unless you'd like to post some supporting evidence for that.

It's tuned to look for patterns indicating terrorism today. At any point in the learning/tuning cycle, things could change. Or maybe the RULES change secretly overnight.

Are you that SCARED?? TO give this power of police surveillance to a govt that renewed Mohammed Attahs visa AFTER he flew into the World Trade Center??? Prism is the internet prowling program.. The phone data mining doesn't have a public name yet..

You are welcome to the police state that YOU would allow.. WE will not allow it.

 

[beagle9]

Saudi man with pressure cooker arrested at Detroit airport - CBS News

He wasn't simply arrested for having a pressure cooker, we was detained for suspicious behavior such as claiming that he had it because they didn't sell them in the US.

Fort Worth Teen Arrested With Pressure Cooker, Fertilizer In Trunk « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

The teenager's car was searched because he appeared to be high, and he was questioned for having multiple bomb components in his car, not just a pressure cooker. He was jailed for possession of drugs, not a pressure cooker.

Explain the IRS scandal for us then ? Got any answers on that one ?

 

[Katzndogz]

Saudi man with pressure cooker arrested at Detroit airport - CBS News

He wasn't simply arrested for having a pressure cooker, we was detained for suspicious behavior such as claiming that he had it because they didn't sell them in the US.

Fort Worth Teen Arrested With Pressure Cooker, Fertilizer In Trunk « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

The teenager's car was searched because he appeared to be high, and he was questioned for having multiple bomb components in his car, not just a pressure cooker. He was jailed for possession of drugs, not a pressure cooker.

Explain the IRS scandal for us then ? Got any answers on that one ?

He's trying to wiggle out of a pressure cooker being a flag.

 

[Osomir]

It's tuned to look for patterns indicating terrorism today. At any point in the learning/tuning cycle, things could change. Or maybe the RULES change secretly overnight.

It's tuned to target non-US citizens overseas.

Are you that SCARED?? TO give this power of police surveillance to a govt that renewed Mohammed Attahs visa AFTER he flew into the World Trade Center??? Prism is the internet prowling program.. The phone data mining doesn't have a public name yet..

Yeah, I'm not going to give in to this type of baiting.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've got nothing to hide, but I sure as heck don't want the government gathering information on me. Who I talk to and associate with is my business.

But is there anyone who thinks the government should be monitoring your phone records?

What do you think monitoring is? Do you think the Feds have enough staff to listen to every phone call made every 24 hours, 7 days a week?

The sad fact is there are those in the United States, some natural born residents, who would engage in cowardly terrorist attacks. How do you propose the Feds should behave given the attack on 9-11; in Boston this year, at the Atlanta Olympics, Oklahoma City?

I know I don't have the answer and I'm sure you don't.

I'm familiar with all the quotes about liberty and security, most of which spoken before weapons of mass destruction were developed and in the hands of this new breed of criminal, the terrorist.

Let me put it to you this way, I don't give a fuck that there are people who commit crimes, that does not justify the police going into every house in the city just in case. It also does not justify the government making random searches of my phone calls if conditions that give a 51% chance of being foreign, not illegal, pop up.

 

[flacaltenn]

It's tuned to look for patterns indicating terrorism today. At any point in the learning/tuning cycle, things could change. Or maybe the RULES change secretly overnight.

It's tuned to target non-US citizens overseas.

Are you that SCARED?? TO give this power of police surveillance to a govt that renewed Mohammed Attahs visa AFTER he flew into the World Trade Center??? Prism is the internet prowling program.. The phone data mining doesn't have a public name yet..

Yeah, I'm not going to give in to this type of baiting.

Lemme get this straight. We are ONLY LOOKING FOR terrorists overseas.. The ones in this country are safe from surveillance right??

You believe that? THat would be a pretty worthless investment of BILLions of dollars.

Are you a plant?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except it's not about persons of interest at all. It indiscriminately affects all Verizon customers.

I don't really see how, the government doesn't have the manpower to focus on non-persons of interest and they still have the congressional review committees to pitch justifications to for their targets.

What fucking planet do you live on? They don't go to Congress to get approval of individual searches. Congress doesn't even have a say in whether or not the "innocent" data mining occurs. Obama is just trying to deflect by pointing out that he told a few congresscritters about it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm not saying they're looking into every single piece of data they're collecting, merely that they are collecting it indiscriminately. The data is there to be perused whether you're a person of interest or not.

So your problem is that phone records are kept at all even if they aren't accessed? I'm not really bothered by that.

My guess is you don't have a brain that would enable me to explain to you why this is stupid, and wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes, because they have no right to collect that data in the first place.

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

They do not.

FYI, FISA does require them to report it when they "accidentally" access information about US citizens, but the report does not have to be made immediately, and apparently only includes information about how often it occurs.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How about where you bank? Who your clients or donors are? Where you have been? Whether you're likely having an affair? Your religion, your hobbies, the location of your family and children?

You might not know the kid who mows your lawn is a gangmember. But this NSA creation can finger an entire structure of an "urban gang" quite well. And if you call him -- you might get a visit someday...

Really not scared of being reamed by association or someone's lust for political power?
Don't understand that at all.. Especially given the EXTENT of this effort, the costs, and complete fruitcakes (like Feinstein) who are "watching out for your interests" as oversight.

Oh yeah --- your name is Politico ---- it figures..

If I have direct phone contact with a gang member planning a domestic terrorist attack then I am a legitimate person for the police / FBI to be talking to whether i know anything or not.

The way it works is that the FBI thinks you are a person of interest if you know someone who knows someone who might possibly be thinking about planning an attack.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I suppose this is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree because i don't have a problem with the government having that data in reserve. My privacy isn't really being violated unless that data is accessed, and if they do access my data they have to justify it to the oversight committee.

Don't think you've thought about how that data can be used and are not aware of how powerful data mining can be.. Particular in the hands of NSA with all the other govt agencies that coordinate with them..

The program isn't even designed to target US citizens, we are externalities to the program itself. It is also a program that is vetted by Congress, so once again, I'm not particularly concerned about it at the moment. If it starts to be grossly abused then of course I'll be worried and call for its dismantling, but I haven't really come across any evidence of that thus far.

Would you please stop saying it is vetted by Congress?

Even Obama is not making that argument, you just annoy people with brains when you say it.